#Spygate

[die Mannyschaft]

15 minutes ago, SW5 SAINT said:

Seeing as cheating occurs in practically every match that is played, I think even a Middlesbrough player dived in the Saints penalty area last night, I can see a lot of matches in the future being declared void. It could lead to all sorts of litigation procedures deciding the out come of matches if a precedent is set by the EFL in banning Saints….

I think they threw the game, definitely the first leg. How can a team miss so many easy chances after we spent the entire 1st half giving the ball to them and helping them to score?

Keeping shit players on the pitch or even starting them is suspect. Boro Cramp central looks too dodgy to me. 

Diving, fouling Saints players to get injured then subbed

[RedArmy]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Surely companies won’t reveal credit card details of previous customers just because Middlesbrough ask for them?

Their chairman owns it. 

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Surely companies won’t reveal credit card details of previous customers just because Middlesbrough ask for them?

Gibbo owns the football club and the hotel complex. The dots are easy to join.

[hypochondriac]

Just now, RedArmy said:

Their chairman owns it. 

Not the other companies who may have that info he doesn't.

[benjii]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Surely companies won’t reveal credit card details of previous customers just because Middlesbrough ask for them?

Presumably the idea is to ask SFC to provide expense receipts etc.

But we should just ask what relevance that has to this match, and then decline.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

What you mean something like 'football training cam' Leave it there for a few days then collect it and see what you've managed to film. Sounds a better idea.

I was thinking more of a 'wildlife activity cam' with a live streaming facility. 

You can get one called a 'lesser spotted defender cam'

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I don't know why people aren't getting this.

What makes the difference is whether the punishment for this is proportional to the offence. Being thrown out of the playoffs probably isn't as (a) the analyst was found before the game and (b) with that in mind Boro shouldn't use those tactics as there may be an advantage to Soton and (c) they still had 48 > 72 hours to change said tactics.

Which their manager admitted they did and then went on to say the change resulted in their best performance of the season so, far from cheating, we actually helped Boro.

[Midfield_General]

12 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

This isn't a court of law. They probably won't but if they had a load of transactions in different locations close to training grounds from Mr salt prior to games then it would suggest a pattern.

It doesn't prove spying though, which is what they need to prove if they're seriously trying to get us kicked out. Nowhere near it.

There aren't any rules about staff not being allowed in the same town as their opponents before a game. 

How are we supposed to have gained an advantage in a game of football from someone buying a cup of coffee? 

[RedArmy]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Not the other companies who may have that info he doesn't.

What other companies? The entire complex is his. 

[benjii]

Maybe the hotel should get a lot of messages on social media asking if they are in the habit of leaking guests' transaction information publicly.

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, benjii said:

Presumably the idea is to ask SFC to provide expense receipts etc.

But we should just ask what relevance that has to this match, and then decline.

They are unlikely to have been submitted yet. Or they may have been prematurely shredded.

[saintant]

4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Surely companies won’t reveal credit card details of previous customers just because Middlesbrough ask for them?

You obviously haven't factored in the Gibbo effect.

[benjii]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

They are unlikely to have been submitted yet. Or they may have been prematurely shredded.

I mean for the alleged other breaches.

[LGTL]

The release of this photo actually makes me think Boro aren’t happy with the way the investigation is going. It’s clearly not going to be expulsion, so ‘Gibbo’ is going after financial compensation, as alluded to by Simon Jordan. 

[egg]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

You missed the point I was making. 

Yes, it happened. Yes, we should be punished.

But if any member of the public is able to livestream a tactical training session it highlights rhe flaw in the defence of saying vital info could be seen. It can't be deemed vital if it is on public show with no fences!

The offence doesn't mention what is being observed, just a training session. It could be the warm up, or a keepy uppy competition.

It does not have to be vital, and what exactly it is, and whether a bloke walking his dog could have observed it, is irrelevant. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, RedArmy said:

What other companies? The entire complex is his. 

The suggestion is that he can use the bank details to look to see if there are other transactions made at other companies in the area near training grounds a few days before our games.

[Dman]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Surely companies won’t reveal credit card details of previous customers just because Middlesbrough ask for them?

Well exactly. If they have, I suspect Mr Gibson is in a world for trouble. 

[RedArmy]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

The suggestion is that he can use the bank details to look to see if there are other transactions made at other companies in the area near training grounds a few days before our games.

Ah I see. I mis understood the point. 

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Their chairman owns it. 

 

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

Gibbo owns the football club and the hotel complex. The dots are easy to join.

I mean the “paper trail” they’re saying exists from other clubs Where he’d done it before 

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

It doesn't prove spying though, which is what they need to prove if they're seriously trying to get us kicked out. Nowhere near it.

There aren't any rules about staff not being allowed in the same town as their opponents before a game. 

How are we supposed to have gained an advantage in a game of football from someone buying a cup of coffee? 

No they need to persuade a disciplinary panel on the balance of probabilities that we had engaged in this before. If they managed to get a load of circumstantial evidence then that may be sufficient.

[Sheaf Saint]

1 minute ago, RedArmy said:

What other companies? The entire complex is his. 

I think he's referring to the notion that establishments near to other clubs that we may or may not have 'spied' on might provide such info. Obviously it's ridiculous because this isn't a criminal investigation.

[RedArmy]

Just now, Turkish said:

 

I mean the “paper trail” they’re saying exists from other clubs Where he’d done it before 

Yeah I see now. Misunderstood. 

[Dman]

2 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

What other companies? The entire complex is his. 

As far as I am aware, they are all individual companies. Thus this is a serious breach of personal data (from the hotel)

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, LGTL said:

The release of this photo actually makes me think Boro aren’t happy with the way the investigation is going. It’s clearly not going to be expulsion, so ‘Gibbo’ is going after financial compensation, as alluded to by Simon Jordan. 

Agreed. I don't think they'd be leaking this to the media otherwise. Simon Jordan wouldn't be talking about making a deal with Gibson unless he'd been told that by the man himself.

Edited 4 hours ago by hypochondriac

[benjii]

What if Will Salt is a mormon?

[Whitey Grandad]

38 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Within 72 hours is the rule. The other rule we are charged against is EFL Regulation 3.4, which requires clubs to act towards each other with the utmost good faith. This was the rule Leeds were charged under.

'Utmost good faith' is meaningless and undefinable. It also includes 'kicking the shit out of the opposition during matches'.

[Sheaf Saint]

Just now, Dman said:

As far as I am aware, they are all individual companies. Thus this is a serious breach of personal data (from the hotel)

Yeah indeed. Gibbo may own them, but you can be certain that the company that runs the hotel will be an entirely separate legal entity from the football club.

[Osvaldorama]

1 hour ago, sockeye said:

HAHAHAHAHA 

is that it 😂😂😂😂

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

As far as I am aware, they are all individual companies. Thus this is a serious breach of personal data (from the hotel)

Unless they had him on cctv using his credit card to buy the coffee?

[egg]

7 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I don't know why people aren't getting this.

What makes the difference is whether the punishment for this is proportional to the offence. Being thrown out of the playoffs probably isn't as (a) the analyst was found before the game and (b) with that in mind Boro shouldn't use those tactics as there may be an advantage to Soton and (c) they still had 48 > 72 hours to change said tactics.

Yep. The punishment is the issue, and for me, only a fine is proportionate. .

I still think the whole thing is a storm in a teacup, and that Middlesbrough have been pathetic.

The club are well advised though, and assuming they take a sensible path, I think we'll be ok. 

[die Mannyschaft]

3 minutes ago, LGTL said:

The release of this photo actually makes me think Boro aren’t happy with the way the investigation is going. It’s clearly not going to be expulsion, so ‘Gibbo’ is going after financial compensation, as alluded to by Simon Jordan. 

We should pursue they then the game, utter shite defenders and a goalkeeper looking at a cross just standing there like a tree, what's he waiting for a spy to turn up.

[Saint NL]

1 minute ago, benjii said:

What if Will Salt is a mormon?

He's certainly a moron for ordering a coffee using his credit card. First rule of  being undercover - use cash.

[Teamsaint1]

Question : with reference to the “ Utmost good faith ” rule, would it be the case that standing outside an open training ground and watching your opponents , and possibly filming them , would be in contravention of that  rule ?  
 

[SWLondon Saint]

I just did my annual data protection compliance training a few weeks back and yes, this looks like a massive GDPR breach. You can't just share PII like that, and in fact his staff should have told him where to f*** off to as they're liable too.

Edited 4 hours ago by SWLondon Saint
Typo

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, benjii said:

What if Will Salt is a mormon?

Then we should be sanctioned for employing him.

[badgerx16]

8 minutes ago, benjii said:

Presumably the idea is to ask SFC to provide expense receipts etc.

But we should just ask what relevance that has to this match, and then decline.

We have no right to release personal data to unauthorised organisations.

[Dman]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Unless they had him on cctv using his credit card to buy the coffee?

Possibly.... But how have they got his name? There is no way your idenitifying a random bloke from that photo alone. 

As far as I'm aware, he's not on the club site. Possibly linked-in? Circumstantial at best. 

[Verbal]

1 hour ago, LGTL said:

’Professional recording equipment’ is a fucking IPhone 😂😂😂😂

That's how the story started out. Then it was "professional recording equipment' (which at that filming distance that most certainly is not - take it from a professional), then drones, then other clubs were spied on, then there was a whistleblower...and on and on. The whole thing has toppled over on its own ridiculousness. 

[LGTL]

1 minute ago, Verbal said:

That's how the story started out. Then it was "professional recording equipment' (which at that filming distance that most certainly is not - take it from a professional), then drones, then other clubs were spied on, then there was a whistleblower...and on and on. The whole thing has toppled over on its own ridiculousness. 

Indeed.

I hope (and assume) that Saints are lawyered up to the hilt over this. Genuinely think we have some counter claims on the handling of this by Boro and their hierarchy. 

[Midfield_General]

So he was using an iphone. From 150m away. 

You can barely zoom in 10m on an iphone. And a standard iphone mic would pick up no audio whatsoever apart from the chaffinches in the branches directly above his head.

So unless the chaffinches were discussing set plays and Hayden Hackney's fitness prognosis, there would be nothing of value on that device whatsoever. 

So by all means do him for trying to film when he shouldn't have, but the idea that we actually gained any advantage from it is absurd. 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Midfield_General

[Matthew Le God]

11 minutes ago, egg said:

The offence doesn't mention what is being observed, just a training session. It could be the warm up, or a keepy uppy competition.

It does not have to be vital, and what exactly it is, and whether a bloke walking his dog could have observed it, is irrelevant. 

Missing the point I was making (again)

[badgerx16]

7 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Unless they had him on cctv using his credit card to buy the coffee?

If the CCTV is in the hotel, he is perfectly entitled to be there, and the football club have no right to access the video.

[egg]

7 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

He's certainly a moron for ordering a coffee using his credit card. First rule of  being undercover - use cash.

Or take a flask. 

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, badgerx16 said:

If the CCTV is in the hotel, he is perfectly entitled to be there, and the football club have no right to access the video.

If he buys a coffee then he's a customer. 

[Dman]

Just now, badgerx16 said:

If the CCTV is in the hotel, he is perfectly entitled to be there, and the football club have no right to access the video.

Hmmm not true unfortunately. They could argue that they have a legal right to the footage due to it assisting with there soon to be legal case. 

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

If the CCTV is in the hotel, he is perfectly entitled to be there, and the football club have no right to access the video.

Of course Steve Gibson can access the video of his own cctv in the hotel that he owns. 

[Saint NL]

According to the loons on the Boro forum, they believe they have a paper trail that includes the following clubs:

Boro, Millwall, Bristol city, Norwich, Hull and Coventry.

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, Dman said:

Hmmm not true unfortunately. They could argue that they have a legal right to the footage due to it assisting with there soon to be legal case. 

They are not carrying out a legal case, it is a civil matter and this is not an authorised use of the data.

[Patrick Bateman]

Am I the only one who sees the name "Will" and the term "intern" and thinks of this guy from 2012 / 2026? Er, yeah, right, er, crap.

[egg]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Missing the point I was making (again)

I addressed the point as you wrote it. Whether it meant something else to you is another matter.