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St Chalet

By St Chalet
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Posted by Miltonaggro,

Apologies for the war and peace post chaps – bear with or scroll past.  For the last week I have been trying to provide a steer on here as to why I think this silly episode will be concluded with a fine (in the region of £200k) and / or a possible future points deduction (though if I were advising Saints I would appeal this).  Simply that talk of forfeit and bans opens a legal can of worms that is well beyond the remit and scope of both the EFL and / or Middlesbrough FC. The best way to get

What a well thought out post. Thank you

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Fleetbeast

Fleetbeast

Posted
Posted

Sounds to me like you Scummers are soiling your rompers.

 

Tonda ‘did you cheat’ Eckert’ definitely is. His coat is on a shaky nail for sure. The ban is looming. 

 

 

  • Haha 29
Crab Lungs

Crab Lungs

Posted
Posted
Just now, Fleetbeast said:

Sounds to me like you Scummers are soiling your rompers.

 

Tonda ‘did you cheat’ Eckert’ definitely is. His coat is on a shaky nail for sure. The ban is looming. 

 

 

And here come the Skates 😂

  • Like 1
Mboto Gorge

Mboto Gorge

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Fleetbeast said:

Sounds to me like you Scummers are soiling your rompers.

 

Tonda ‘did you cheat’ Eckert’ definitely is. His coat is on a shaky nail for sure. The ban is looming. 

 

 

Joined on Monday. Sad cunt

  • Like 1
Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Fleetbeast said:

Sounds to me like you Scummers are soiling your rompers.

 

Tonda ‘did you cheat’ Eckert’ definitely is. His coat is on a shaky nail for sure. The ban is looming. 

 

 

The only ban looming sunshine (that thing you never see on Teeside) is yours from the local social club where the regulars haven’t seen a dentist in decades.

Enjoy your town 😂😂

Love from a Cotswolds stone town xxx

And no, you aren’t having any more levelling up money.

Edited by Gloucester Saint
AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted

I can’t wait till it is all over and the club can say their piece.

Tonda and co are clearly towing a strict line to take by keeping to the “I cannot comment as there is an investigation going on”

Where as anyone from Boro, manager or Journo, cannot stop the accusations. well, Hellberg did tone it down last night so I guess he has been advised, maybe

  • Like 5
Southner

Southner

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Mboto Gorge said:

Joined on Monday. Sad cunt

Talk of dodgy behaviour together with being a few days away from the FA Cup final. They feel relevant again. 

  • Haha 3
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Based on what tho?

I was wondering if this is one of those "I have some inside info but I can't post it as fact, so I'll phrase it as a hypothesis so it doesn't look like I know something" type posts...

  • Like 1
Football Special

Football Special

Posted
Posted

Im confused why Middlesbrough are appointing lawyers in their case against Southampton, they are acting like prosecutors in a court of law rather than just 'reporting the incident to EFL'

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/nick-de-marco-middlesbrough-hire-33939191?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwdGRjcARxqExjbGNrBHGn2mV4dG4DYWVtAjExAHNydGMGYXBwX2lkDDM1MDY4NTUzMTcyOAABHjTJB4BA2sdHDw-SGNCP12tQ8d-VMi2JQKOsr8UTq1C_ZpeE5_YiO_qxEtQ4_aem_mv4Ad_Vj7UA63Bgo9oBSuw

Throwing absolutely everything at it arent they rather than just trying to beat us on the pitch 

  • Like 1
AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted

It can’t be any more than a 3 point deduction. Leicester got 6 removed and they knowingly had a sporting advantage for the entire season we were last down with them.

  • Like 3
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

If he was on official Southampton business would he not be using a Southampton FC bank card and not his own private one?

When I'm away on business I use my own bank card and claim it back via expenses 

  • Like 3
coalman

coalman

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Fleetbeast said:

Sounds to me like you Scummers are soiling your rompers.

 

Tonda ‘did you cheat’ Eckert’ definitely is. His coat is on a shaky nail for sure. The ban is looming. 

Thank you, Oscar Wilde.

Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Football Special said:

Im confused why Middlesbrough are appointing lawyers in their case against Southampton, they are acting like prosecutors in a court of law rather than just 'reporting the incident to EFL'

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/nick-de-marco-middlesbrough-hire-33939191?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwdGRjcARxqExjbGNrBHGn2mV4dG4DYWVtAjExAHNydGMGYXBwX2lkDDM1MDY4NTUzMTcyOAABHjTJB4BA2sdHDw-SGNCP12tQ8d-VMi2JQKOsr8UTq1C_ZpeE5_YiO_qxEtQ4_aem_mv4Ad_Vj7UA63Bgo9oBSuw

Throwing absolutely everything at it arent they rather than just trying to beat us on the pitch 

They’re cluelessly thrashing around after ‘Gibbo’ has had a ring around of all his mates.

They’ve revealed everything they’ve got - not much - in as full a public view as their training ground is in.

  • Like 2
Willo of Whiteley

Willo of Whiteley

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Fleetbeast said:

Sounds to me like you Scummers are soiling your rompers.

 

Tonda ‘did you cheat’ Eckert’ definitely is. His coat is on a shaky nail for sure. The ban is looming. 

 

 

Says the Boro boy who signed up to an oppositions fans forum to carry on bleating. 
It’s hilarious muppets like this that don’t realise they’re tarnishing their club 😂

Dry your eyes mate

  • Like 1
ChrisPY

ChrisPY

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Fleetbeast said:

Sounds to me like you Scummers are soiling your rompers.

 

Tonda ‘did you cheat’ Eckert’ definitely is. His coat is on a shaky nail for sure. The ban is looming. 

 

 

I’ve always wanted this forum to get a pet cunt. 

  • Haha 11
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

It's a GUESS, as the opening phrase declares.

You're assuming he's not faking the "guess" bit... ;)

Edited by trousers
Give it to Ron

Give it to Ron

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Fleetbeast said:

Sounds to me like you Scummers are soiling your rompers.

 

Tonda ‘did you cheat’ Eckert’ definitely is. His coat is on a shaky nail for sure. The ban is looming. 

 

 

I see your manager has been for interviews at Bristol shame but bigger club more money better facilities than a 50’s standard shithole

  • Like 1
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Fleetbeast said:

Sounds to me like you Scummers are soiling your rompers.

 

Tonda ‘did you cheat’ Eckert’ definitely is. His coat is on a shaky nail for sure. The ban is looming. 

 

 

Can I have 19 bites in the sweepstake please? 

Cracking effort so far to be fair 👍🏻

  • Haha 1
SfcPhil

SfcPhil

Posted
Posted

Like others have said, it all feels absolutely desperate from the Boro side, especially since last night. Seems to be ramping up, day by day. Leak more to their journo mates, trying to force the EFL's hand for harsher punishments.

99% of this didn't have to be in the media, they've decided it should be. All we should know is what we heard in the EFL statement and the corresponding Saints statement that were complying with the investigation. That's it.

They've attempted to drag the club and this young lad (leaking his name and picture to the tabloids) through the mud to try and gain an advantage over the two legs, and it didn't work.

 

  • Like 5
Mboto Gorge

Mboto Gorge

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, SfcPhil said:

Like others have said, it all feels absolutely desperate from the Boro side, especially since last night. Seems to be ramping up, day by day. Leak more to their journo mates, trying to force the EFL's hand for harsher punishments.

99% of this didn't have to be in the media, they've decided it should be. All we should know is what we heard in the EFL statement and the corresponding Saints statement that were complying with the investigation. That's it.

They've attempted to drag the club and this young lad (leaking his name and picture to the tabloids) through the mud to try and gain an advantage over the two legs, and it didn't work.

 

Shows them for what they are. Pathetic 

  • Like 1
Miltonaggro

Miltonaggro

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Im confused why Middlesbrough are appointing lawyers in their case against Southampton, they are acting like prosecutors in a court of law rather than just 'reporting the incident to EFL'

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/nick-de-marco-middlesbrough-hire-33939191?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwdGRjcARxqExjbGNrBHGn2mV4dG4DYWVtAjExAHNydGMGYXBwX2lkDDM1MDY4NTUzMTcyOAABHjTJB4BA2sdHDw-SGNCP12tQ8d-VMi2JQKOsr8UTq1C_ZpeE5_YiO_qxEtQ4_aem_mv4Ad_Vj7UA63Bgo9oBSuw

Throwing absolutely everything at it arent they rather than just trying to beat us on the pitch 

They haven’t got a legal case, but doubt that their £400 an hour man will tell them that for the next 300 billable hours 😂

RedArmy

RedArmy

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, Fleetbeast said:

Sounds to me like you Scummers are soiling your rompers.

 

Tonda ‘did you cheat’ Eckert’ definitely is. His coat is on a shaky nail for sure. The ban is looming. 

 

 

Stop trying to lick your shoulder and fuck off. 

  • Haha 2
Osvaldorama

Osvaldorama

Posted
Posted

I honestly wish we’d done something even more serious at this point, the way the media and Boro are going on about it. 
 

At least it would have been worthwhile then 

  • Like 1
Convict Colony

Convict Colony

Posted
Posted

Honestly this whole thing is just fucking embarrassing.

Boro basically each day making their assertions look more and more shit, some bloke filming on an iphone is a long way from professional equipment that can hear voices on the training ground.

Secondly they are so pikey they can't have a fence for their ground, boro fans going there all the time to watch the team.

The saints intern being utter utter utter shit as a spy, this is the worst for me, just fucking amateur, using his card to pay for coffee, not hiring a room and zooming in from the window etc etc and this forum for telling me he joined Aston Villa a while ago.

Steve Gibson angling for a payout and morphing I to biggus dickus.image.jpeg.e6ca0f783a306cf7bff3b64898a7e876.jpeg

The only positive from this is @Miltonaggro posting his wizard lawyer talk and me finding out there is a recommended post feature on this forum.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
James G

James G

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, SfcPhil said:

Like others have said, it all feels absolutely desperate from the Boro side, especially since last night. Seems to be ramping up, day by day. Leak more to their journo mates, trying to force the EFL's hand for harsher punishments.

99% of this didn't have to be in the media, they've decided it should be. All we should know is what we heard in the EFL statement and the corresponding Saints statement that were complying with the investigation. That's it.

They've attempted to drag the club and this young lad (leaking his name and picture to the tabloids) through the mud to try and gain an advantage over the two legs, and it didn't work.

 

I think it's about causing as much reputational damage to us as possible in the moment, plus I'm guessing they are trying to affect us so we don't win

They've infiltrated mainstream media and they are trying to control the narrative, pushing the story that we are sin personified on the general public 

I've never seen anything like it. It's almost biblical

  • Like 4
Challenger

Challenger

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I can’t wait till it is all over and the club can say their piece.

Tonda and co are clearly towing a strict line to take by keeping to the “I cannot comment as there is an investigation going on”

Where as anyone from Boro, manager or Journo, cannot stop the accusations. well, Hellberg did tone it down last night so I guess he has been advised, maybe

Squealing like pigs with their nuts in a snare.

The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

It can’t be any more than a 3 point deduction. Leicester got 6 removed and they knowingly had a sporting advantage for the entire season we were last down with them.

This is where I’m at, realistically. A big fine, potentially a suspension of staff members directly responsible, and a small points deduction. As you say, the Leicester punishment is some form of benchmark for punishment that gets handed down.

I’ve said it before but need to remind myself given the continual rot that comes out of NE based journos.  We finished the regular season 9 points above 7th place, getting us in the playoffs. 10 points really because of goal difference. To throw us out of the playoffs, which Boro keep suggesting they want, means a ten point deduction. The EFL surely can’t just throw us out as they need to set a precedent for any future transgressions from other clubs who may or may not be in playoff contention. So a points deduction is the way to do that, and it has to be proportionate.

Convict Colony

Convict Colony

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, kwsaint said:

I’d love to know what percentage of Middlesbrough fans are believing this stuff.

They still point at planes up there so I expect they 100% believe what their local reporters are saying.

  • Haha 3
James G

James G

Posted
Posted
Just now, Matthew Le God said:

If Boro are confident things are going their way, why are they leaking everything to the press? 

Well, I think they are not confident which is why they are pushing down hard on this press campaign to cause us damage that way

AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Miltonaggro said:

Apologies for the war and peace post chaps – bear with or scroll past.  For the last week I have been trying to provide a steer on here as to why I think this silly episode will be concluded with a fine (in the region of £200k) and / or a possible future points deduction (though if I were advising Saints I would appeal this).  Simply that talk of forfeit and bans opens a legal can of worms that is well beyond the remit and scope of both the EFL and / or Middlesbrough FC.

The best way to get your head around it is to think about intervention via the regulator in any other lucrative industry away from the emotion attached to sports.  If a rule imposed by the regulator is wildly out of proportion to any complaint of unfair advantage, the business or individual still has full recourse to law.  Be aware that in any field, a regulatory rule or penalty cannot trump or bypass the law.  My practice area doesn’t extend to sports law, but there is some allied knowledge of commercial litigation, which is what will commence if the EFL act rashly. 

This lunchtime I managed to have a chat with an old friend who does work in sports / commercial law and we agreed on what would likely happen in the event of the EFL overstepping.  I had a spare hour after this (might write a casenote on if it ever goes to law), so thought I would post this on here to put fellow Saints fans minds at rest.  This is only a reflective opinion, and you can never guarantee outcome of course – its complicated as they say - but it’s a measured / informed opinion at least:

Assuming Saints reasonable position is that a junior analyst did record half an hour of MFC’s training, without the Board’s knowledge, and the club are currently undertaking a review of this. 

Let’s say the EFL announce that they will fine and ban SFC from the Play off final, causing the club to miss out on promotion to the EPL.  Reacting to the white noise of the past week.

1. Targets for litigation by SFC

Should the EFL Independent Disciplinary Commission rule to expel Southampton FC from the Championship Play-off Final against Hull City on 23 May, Southampton should immediately file a claim in the King's Bench Division of the High Court naming two distinct parties:

A) Primary Defendant: The English Football League (EFL)

Cause of Action: Breach of Contract, Arbitrary Exercise of Disciplinary Power, and Procedural Unfairness.

Basis: The EFL Regulations form a binding contract between member clubs and the league. Southampton will challenge any expedited expulsion as an ultra vires (meaning beyond their powers) abuse of power that violates the league's own regulatory framework.

B) Secondary Defendant / Interested Party: Middlesbrough FC

Procedural Joinder: Middlesbrough must be formally joined to the High Court action as an Interested Party under Civil Procedure Rules (CPR), as it is likely that they are actively preparing to take Southampton's place at Wembley (as stated in recent MFC communications).

Tort Claims: Direct counterclaims for Injurious Falsehood and Defamation regarding public statements made by Middlesbrough personnel (e.g., Hellberg publicly labelling Southampton "cheats"), which have severely damaged the club's corporate reputation and stock value before a formal verdict has been rendered.

2. Legal position and precedent

Southampton's legal counsel will likely use four distinct arguments to block an expulsion from the play-offs, these are to use the Leeds 2019 case, employment law isolation, breach of natural justice, and the good old American Cyanamid principles.

i) Deviation from Established League Precedent (Leeds United Spygate 2019) In 2019, Marcelo Bielsa admitted to spying on Derby County and every other Championship opponent. The EFL established a clear, binding precedent by issuing a £200,000 fine and a formal reprimand. Escalating the penalty to total competition expulsion for a first-time alleged offense by an analyst is a gross violation of contractual consistency and proportionality under English sports law (Bradley v Jockey Club).

ii) The Rogue Agent Defence: Southampton's executive board will likely submit immediate formal statements confirming they never authorised, funded, or evaluated any illicitly filmed footage. Under standard employment principles, a club cannot face strict liability capital sporting punishment (expulsion) for an individual first-team analyst acting independently outside his explicit operational mandate – their must be a chain of command / causation in terms of proof.

iii) Breach of Natural Justice via Compressed Timelines: The EFL's decision to bypass the standard 14-day response period to force a hearing before 23 May actively denies Southampton its right to a fair trial (McInnes v Onslow-Fane). Depriving a club of adequate time to conduct a comprehensive internal review while Middlesbrough introduces unverified third-party "CCTV history" constitutes a fatal procedural flaw.

iv) Irreparable Harm Threshold (American Cyanamid Co). Southampton easily satisfies the High Court test for an Urgent Interim Injunction (this is absolutely key). The financial upside of reaching the Premier League is universally valued at around £200 million (ballpark extreme financial losses). If the EFL removes Southampton from the final illegally, no monetary damages paid by the league months later can adequately compensate for the permanent loss of global prestige, TV broadcasting distributions, and elite sporting merit. Essentially, were the court to find for SFC, Saints could effectively bankrupt the EFL and Middlesbrough FC.

3. Potential damages and remedies

If the EFL Independent Disciplinary Commission issues a sporting expulsion or points deduction before the weekend of the play-off final, Southampton must seek the following cumulative judicial remedies:

A) Pre-Match Urgent Remedies (Wembley Focus):

Urgent Interim High Court Injunction: An emergency judicial order freezing the Championship Play-off Final scheduled for 23 May, or alternatively ordering the EFL to permit Southampton to play Hull City as scheduled, until a full commercial court trial evaluates the legality of the charge.

Final Judicial Declaration: A formal court order declaring that the EFL Independent Disciplinary Commission's penalty is null, void, contractually invalid, and ultra vires.

Injunction Against Disparagement (Middlesbrough): An injunction ordering Middlesbrough executives and coaching staff to immediately cease public character assassinations and "cheating" accusations online and in press conferences until the formal legal channel has concluded.

B) Post-Match Monetary Damages (speculative as I don’t think EFL are that stupid)

£200 Million Promotion Expectation Damages (From the EFL): If the High Court denies the injunction but later finds the EFL breached its contract by expelling the club, the EFL will be liable for the full, audited £200 million loss representing missing out on the Premier League's central broadcasting revenue, parachute payments, and global commercial rights.

Reliance and Operational Damages (From the EFL): Full recovery of lost ticket sales for Wembley, pre-booked corporate travel packages, stadium concession refunds, and pre-negotiated club sponsorship bonuses tied to reaching the final.

Tortious Special Damages (From Middlesbrough FC): Punitive financial damages if Southampton can prove that Middlesbrough’s public agitating directly caused major commercial sponsors or e.g. shirt partners to execute ‘morality clauses’ and pull funding out of the club.

4. Advice to SFC on taking action if the EFL goes nuclear (I would imagine that all of this is already well in motion)

Club solicitors Paris Smith LLP to instruct specialist sports KC in terms of retention for the action.

Submit Response of Non-Authorisation: Issue the club’s formal observations to the EFL, officially isolating the analyst's actions from board knowledge.

Prepare the High Court Application Papers: Pre- draft the American Cyanamid skeleton argument to ensure that if the Independent Commission rules against the club court injunction papers can be served within two hours.

So that’s my legal tuppence in terms of shutting out the white-noise, hope it helps in terms of perspective.  Much sharper people that I will already be on board, and SFC seem to be acting with extreme professionalism and strategic edge.  Short advice to the Boro brains trust would be to move on, or be careful what you wish for.

there was a poster commenting on the Boro site, who is in the law profession (apparently). This person claimed that the chances/likelihood of Boro replacing Saints in the final sit around 0%

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Midfield_General

Midfield_General

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, kwsaint said:

I’d love to know what percentage of Middlesbrough fans are believing this stuff.

100, it would seem

They've lost their collective minds

They're whipping themselves into such a frenzy over every made-up rumour and scrap of twitter bullshit, they're like those people who believed Alex Jones when he told them that pesticides made their frogs gay, except they all look like Phil Stamp (and that's just the women)

Edited by Midfield_General
egg

egg

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, trousers said:

 

 

Re points deduction. Can a punishment for an offence in the EFL be transferred to the PL? 

Disco Stu

Disco Stu

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, egg said:

Re points deduction. Can a punishment for an offence in the EFL be transferred to the PL? 

Yes. Rules got changed after the Liecester City fiasco. A bit like the way rules got changed after the Leeds United fiasco 😂

Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, egg said:

Re points deduction. Can a punishment for an offence in the EFL be transferred to the PL? 

Yeah. 3 point deduction could put us in 20th in the Premier League again, rather than in 20th.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 6
StrangelyBrown

StrangelyBrown

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Im confused why Middlesbrough are appointing lawyers in their case against Southampton, they are acting like prosecutors in a court of law rather than just 'reporting the incident to EFL'

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/nick-de-marco-middlesbrough-hire-33939191?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwdGRjcARxqExjbGNrBHGn2mV4dG4DYWVtAjExAHNydGMGYXBwX2lkDDM1MDY4NTUzMTcyOAABHjTJB4BA2sdHDw-SGNCP12tQ8d-VMi2JQKOsr8UTq1C_ZpeE5_YiO_qxEtQ4_aem_mv4Ad_Vj7UA63Bgo9oBSuw

Throwing absolutely everything at it arent they rather than just trying to beat us on the pitch 

Gibson is a cunt and has form for this sort of bollocks. Can't wait until something comes out about his club.

All he needed to do is build a fence FFS! Talk about not taking responsibility for his own ineptitude.

  • Like 1
Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, egg said:

Re points deduction. Can a punishment for an offence in the EFL be transferred to the PL? 

Most likely the fine larger than that and points deduction suspended, given how filthy some of the PL cheating is. 

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