um pahars Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 At least according to Carter in The Echo. Reading that, I have to say there is alot in there that resonates with me. As soon as Poortvliet walked (or was advised to jump), then for me, the "Revolutionary Coaching Set Up" was a busted flush, and with Wotte backtracking faster than a thing that backtracks fast, it's clear to see that this mad vision has been found wanting. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4119454.Is_there_time_left_to_save_Saints_after_Lowe_s_grand_vision_fails_/ IMHO, it's probably only about the second article this season that's managed to distinguish itself from what might have appeared on the Official Site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild-saint Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Any chance of a thread that discusses something different than nearly 99 percent of all the other threads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Any chance of a thread that discusses something different than nearly 99 percent of all the other threads? Yes, lets just bury all of this and pretend its not happening, that would suit the Lowe agenda just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Tell us something we don't already know . Lowe strikes me as the type of personality possessed with an innate sense of complete self confidence , convinced of their own infallibility this type sees no need for advice and they tend to surround themselves with people of the same opinion (Poortvliet) or at least 'yes men' (Wotte) who wouldn't dare question them . This might be acceptable if they're fundamentally correct in their decision making , unfortunately history shows that more often than not they tend to be wrong - the utter fiasco of this season shows us clearly that Rupert Lowe falls into the latter category . Any proper 'Football Man' could have told you this seasons youth strategy was likely to fail , half the members of this forum could see it for that matter - the fact that the Chairman wasn't listening is a tragedy for this club and all those who hold it's welfare close to their hearts . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 How's 19Ranteen going to view this? Is the Daily Echo a mouthpiece of the Lunatic fringe? Or maybe the penny will finally hit rock bottom? At last the local paper is saying what a lot of us have been saying on here. With all due respect to the players, you don't get UP from this division with young players, you may possibly get out of it though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durleyfos Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 I think the phrase "No sh!t, Sherlock" springs to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 its about time the echo jumped off of the fence but shouldnt they have done that at the start of the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Any chance of a thread that discusses something different than nearly 99 percent of all the other threads? Hadn't you noticed? This IS a thread that disusses something different. Point me out another thread during this season's mad decline where the Echo has finally come out and admitted that things are so very badly wrong with Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exit2 Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Any chance of a thread that discusses something different than nearly 99 percent of all the other threads? It is different the echo has grown some balls maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 How's 19Ranteen going to view this? Is the Daily Echo a mouthpiece of the Lunatic fringe? Or maybe the penny will finally hit rock bottom? At last the local paper is saying what a lot of us have been saying on here. With all due respect to the players, you don't get UP from this division with young players, you may possibly get out of it though! He will still try and dance in the sun and say Lowe has still got it all under control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 its about time the echo jumped off of the fence but shouldnt they have done that at the start of the season? I think they have adopted this new stance as apparently they were absolutely furious that they didn't get the exclusive on 'Wotte thinks Hiddink is fantastic' article. That'll learn 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 My sentiments Greenridge; Do you think Wotte counts himself amongst the 'top Dutch coaches' denied by Premier League clubs!? Him and the revolutionary Hans Van Edam at Kaiser Wilheim IVVVV... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 It doesn't matter if the Fans, Echo or anyonre else comes to the realisation it hasn't worked, Lowe needed to come to that realisation, if he has and Wotte is under instruction to do what is necessary, then good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Any chance of a thread that discusses something different than nearly 99 percent of all the other threads? Yes, lets not discuss the most important issue at the club.... What shall we talk about then ? *taps fingers* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Rupert Lowe's Vision Has Failed , he should go to Specsavers then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 I am just remembering all the abuse I got on here for saying all of this 6 months ago............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Rupert Lowe's Vision Has Failed , he should go to Specsavers then Sort of says it all about you, nickh. all you can do is make a silly (and not very funny) joke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 I am just remembering all the abuse I got on here for saying all of this 6 months ago............ Just remembering? Can't be hard, you have had it daily for a lot longer than six months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Yes, lets not discuss the most important issue at the club.... What shall we talk about then ? *taps fingers* Gingerbread :smt102 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunrise Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Rupert Lowe's Vision Has Failed , he should go to Specsavers then To buy some rose-tinted glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 I am just remembering all the abuse I got on here for saying all of this 6 months ago............ Told you so..Told you so................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 How's 19Ranteen going to view this? Is the Daily Echo a mouthpiece of the Lunatic fringe? Or maybe the penny will finally hit rock bottom? At last the local paper is saying what a lot of us have been saying on here. With all due respect to the players, you don't get UP from this division with young players, you may possibly get out of it though! He will still try and dance in the sun and say Lowe has still got it all under control. Sort of says it all about you, nickh. all you can do is make a silly (and not very funny) joke... I think both sides of the argument are fronted by silly little point scoring morons from time to time, myself included. What is interesting is that while the Echo backed Lowe they were considered to be out of touch or bought by Lowe, when they go against him they are suddenly a font of knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Told you so..Told you so................. You heard those words in your head too I see!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 I think both sides of the argument are fronted by silly little point scoring morons from time to time, myself included. What is interesting is that while the Echo backed Lowe they were considered to be out of touch or bought by Lowe, when they go against him they are suddenly a font of knowledge. They're journalists[ish]. They will report what they perceive will sell the most papers. I doubt they are in anyone's 'pockets'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 the vision was good but failed because of not keeping on pearson and having some experienced players to guide the young players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 I am just remembering all the abuse I got on here for saying all of this 6 months ago............My god, the messiah the man who told us that having to lose the best players and play the youth wouldn't work, nobody else would have sensed that. the fact that we were shipping money and couldnt sustain it failed to regisiter.You are such a visionary. How about you telling us again about your constant support of the Wilde bunch,how you argued until you were blue in the face that they were the choice to take us to bright future.That i was a Lowe luvvie and so couldnt see the truth, dont give us that Alpine you were one of many that were sceptical, many were prepared to try it as a way of keeping out of administration.Jan could not get the home victories and that is his downfall, the away results were more than satisfactory all things considered." more home wins and we would be far more relaxed about things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 They're journalists[ish]. They will report what they perceive will sell the most papers. I doubt they are in anyone's 'pockets'. I totally agree, which makes the earlier comments by the Lunatic Fringe laughable when they insist Lowe had bought them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Sort of says it all about you, nickh. all you can do is make a silly (and not very funny) joke... Alpine I doubt you know what a smile is, i doubt you could in real life be as dour and humourless negative and depressing as you come over on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 You heard those words in your head too I see!! It was too easy to say it wouldn't work, there were games when it looked like it would, however, it is now fact that it didn't work...whats that saying ? even a stopped clock....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 It was too easy to say it wouldn't work, there were games when it looked like it would, however, it is now fact that it didn't work...whats that saying ? even a stopped clock....... Another thing about a stopped clock is that it's good to wind them up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Sort of says it all about you, nickh. all you can do is make a silly (and not very funny) joke... may i also add you ought to go onto the thread about 2 of our footballers said to have assaulted a fan and put up your disgust about all the puns about takeaway food.If you haven't read it you'd better because you could go on and be outraged.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 My god, the messiah the man who told us that having to lose the best players and play the youth wouldn't work, nobody else would have sensed that. the fact that we were shipping money and couldnt sustain it failed to regisiter.You are such a visionary. How about you telling us again about your constant support of the Wilde bunch,how you argued until you were blue in the face that they were the choice to take us to bright future.That i was a Lowe luvvie and so couldnt see the truth, dont give us that Alpine you were one of many that were sceptical, many were prepared to try it as a way of keeping out of administration.Jan could not get the home victories and that is his downfall, the away results were more than satisfactory all things considered." more home wins and we would be far more relaxed about things. Nick, you may have 7000 posts, but Alpine's recall of events leading up to the "non-appointment" of NP and the master plan of Lowe/Wilde to go Total Football seems a lot more consistent than your stance. I well remember your "scepticism" about Pearson and your encouragement of "true fans" to get behind the Lowe vision of youth driven, Dutch master-minded football. Now, you seem to have edged away from that position to blend into the dissatisfied army - at least Alpine has had the conviction to stick to his original fears. You would do well to acknowledge that you, and quite a few others got it seriously wrong on this one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Nick, you may have 7000 posts, but Alpine's recall of events leading up to the "non-appointment" of NP and the master plan of Lowe/Wilde to go Total Football seems a lot more consistent than your stance. I well remember your "scepticism" about Pearson and your encouragement of "true fans" to get behind the Lowe vision of youth driven, Dutch master-minded football. Now, you seem to have edged away from that position to blend into the dissatisfied army - at least Alpine has had the conviction to stick to his original fears. You would do well to acknowledge that you, and quite a few others got it seriously wrong on this one!I have been supportive of the club staying out of administration.Show me where I have been supportive of Jan.I could see (and know) some of the problems the club was up against financially. In principle using the acadamy is a sound idea but it always needed a few of the older players in the side.Jan could not communicate and didnt talk tactics. His substitutions were poor and his reading of the game also. I was prepared to give the man a chance as i was NP. I dont think NP is a fantastic manager.Time will tell , next season will tell us more when his squad plays up against tougher opposition. They should neve gone down but they wre complacent and also didnt take to Holloways methods. I am happy that you are with Alpine are you related ('Aust'saint) If you shout negative enough times you will get some right, it is easier to be critical than positive and I could say time and again if you dont play world class players you are not going to be successful. We have no divine right to afford the star players we had, they had to be shipped out as the club could not afford them, if it was so easy every team in the CCC would have them. Financial restraints come first and foremost, football first is a joke and people who believe that football comes before finance are naive, whoever is in charge of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 At least according to Carter in The Echo. Reading that, I have to say there is alot in there that resonates with me. As soon as Poortvliet walked (or was advised to jump), then for me, the "Revolutionary Coaching Set Up" was a busted flush, and with Wotte backtracking faster than a thing that backtracks fast, it's clear to see that this mad vision has been found wanting. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4119454.Is_there_time_left_to_save_Saints_after_Lowe_s_grand_vision_fails_/ IMHO, it's probably only about the second article this season that's managed to distinguish itself from what might have appeared on the Official Site. Good article, reflecting as usual the opinions that appear on here. If he was a broadsheet jorno he'd of course have examined why it was always destined to fail and why the vision was a fantasy from the start. Slightly more indepth analysis you see. Still, happy, puts Rupert neatly back into his failure box with the people of Southampton. Gonna be difficult for Rupert to argue against this one if the Echo maintain this sort of article that certainly reflects public opinion. If they keep this up, Lowe WILL have to walk. Loser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 I have been supportive of the club staying out of administration.Show me where I have been supportive of Jan.I could see (and know) some of the problems the club was up against financially. In principle using the acadamy is a sound idea but it always needed a few of the older players in the side.Jan could not communicate and didnt talk tactics. His substitutions were poor and his reading of the game also. I was prepared to give the man a chance as i was NP. I dont think NP is a fantastic manager.Time will tell , next season will tell us more when his squad plays up against tougher opposition. They should neve gone down but they wre complacent and also didnt take to Holloways methods. I am happy that you are with Alpine are you related ('Aust'saint) If you shout negative enough times you will get some right, it is easier to be critical than positive and I could say time and again if you dont play world class players you are not going to be successful. We have no divine right to afford the star players we had, they had to be shipped out as the club could not afford them, if it was so easy every team in the CCC would have them. Financial restraints come first and foremost, football first is a joke and people who believe that football comes before finance are naive, whoever is in charge of the club. Nick, you state this as FACT and base your whole argument forsupporting the lunacy of our 'youth' policy around it. BUT, do you know for sure that we couldn't afford to keep our older players, or are you basing your entire argument on what Lowe has told us in order to make his lunatic plans seem more credible. I would wager that you don't know FOR SURE, as none of us do either way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Good article, reflecting as usual the opinions that appear on here. If he was a broadsheet jorno he'd of course have examined why it was always destined to fail and why the vision was a fantasy from the start. Slightly more indepth analysis you see. Still, happy, puts Rupert neatly back into his failure box with the people of Southampton. Gonna be difficult for Rupert to argue against this one if the Echo maintain this sort of article that certainly reflects public opinion. If they keep this up, Lowe WILL have to walk. Loser. Don't be so harsh on yourself. Do you have self esteem issues? Sign off as SaintRobbie next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Don't be so harsh on yourself. Do you have self esteem issues? Sign off as SaintRobbie next time. LOL OK ... Lowe's persona must be rubbing off on even me, let alone the very small amount of camp followers, the coaching staff and the team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Tha article is wrong on several counts. Prime among them being that the penny has dropped after Xmas. It has not. Hence we have a man with Cameron Diaz hairstyle, and sadly her football management ability too, in the dugout. While people like Dowie, Boothroyd, Holloway, Adams and more sit at home and watch us go down faster than a holed u-boat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 I'll reserve judgement on the Echo finally representing their readers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 The experiment failed in September, after some brilliant football early on. We then stopped the passing game and the players started playing like 18 year old British footballers. Not picking the available costly pros and mixing the team was the failure to realise the experiment had ended. Irrespective who was in the team we weren't playing pass and move anymore. Lowe is a bloody banker, and not a very bright one FFS. Look at the mess the world is in because of them and their inability to recognise they are wrong. SLH/SFC reflect that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulSaint Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 With 2 points from nine, some would say that Rupert Lowes 2nd vision is going to fail too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 The experiment failed in September, after some brilliant football early on. We then stopped the passing game and the players started playing like 18 year old British footballers. Not picking the available costly pros and mixing the team was the failure to realise the experiment had ended. Irrespective who was in the team we weren't playing pass and move anymore. Lowe is a bloody banker, and not a very bright one FFS. Look at the mess the world is in because of them and their inability to recognise they are wrong. SLH/SFC reflect that. To be fair... the opposition also get a vote. It was painfully obvious to me early in the season that after afew games CCC teams were going to catch on to our 'style' of play and play a man's game back, paced in a professional manner over the whole duration of the game. Bar only a couple of exception (such as Preston, where over confidence on their part slipped in) we were NEVER going anywhere other than down under Lowes 'vision' and the results it was likely to achieve. Wotte, Clifford and SCW also have their part to play in this vision - it was them who sewed the seed in Lowe's tiny mind 2 years ago before Burley came in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Rupert Lowe's vision has failed .......... " Should have gone to Specsavers " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Rupert Lowe's Vision Has Failed , he should go to Specsavers then Rupert Lowe's vision has failed .......... " Should have gone to Specsavers " About an 1hr20mins too slow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Any chance of a thread that discusses something different than nearly 99 percent of all the other threads? Good Idea .... too many threads about Lowe, Lowe, Lowe Let's start one about :- How well our Football Team is playing How many points we are away from the play offs How secure our Financial situation is How Big our Home Gates are How great the atmosphere is How well the Board are driving OUR Club onwards and downwards ( oops, negative, silly me ) Anyway, just a few things that can be discussed without involving the word Lowe Easy really ... innit ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 To be fair... the opposition also get a vote. It was painfully obvious to me early in the season that after afew games CCC teams were going to catch on to our 'style' of play and play a man's game back, paced in a professional manner over the whole duration of the game. Bar only a couple of exception (such as Preston, where over confidence on their part slipped in) we were NEVER going anywhere other than down under Lowes 'vision' and the results it was likely to achieve. Wotte, Clifford and SCW also have their part to play in this vision - it was them who sewed the seed in Lowe's tiny mind 2 years ago before Burley came in. There was an element of that, but the players themselves stopped the pass and move football, they stopped letting the ball do the work and started to run with the ball and nobody running without it. We became very static, narrow, no penetration and defensively naive. The rest is history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 About an 1hr20mins too slow Sorry ..... missed it ( should have gone to specsavers as well ) Well done NickG ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 Good Idea .... too many threads about Lowe, Lowe, Lowe Let's start one about :- How well our Football Team is playing How many points we are away from the play offs How secure our Financial situation is How Big our Home Gates are How great the atmosphere is How well the Board are driving OUR Club onwards and downwards ( oops, negative, silly me ) Anyway, just a few things that can be discussed without involving the word Lowe Easy really ... innit ??? Not really that easy, as all of the problems to do with what you list above actually are directly the result of Lowe's club policy. So remove the problem and the sycophants around him and we have a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 There was an element of that, but the players themselves stopped the pass and move football, they stopped letting the ball do the work and started to run with the ball and nobody running without it. We became very static, narrow, no penetration and defensively naive. The rest is history. True - though I think that was a reaction to CCC tactics against us and general frustration, coupled with a clueless manager who looked defeated (because he knew he was) every time he stepped up to the touchline. I give Wotte 2 more defeats before we see the startled rabbit in the headlights look from him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chap in the Chapel Posted 12 February, 2009 Share Posted 12 February, 2009 There is no surprise in this. During last Friday's webchat, Adam Leitch got tremendous flak about the Echo's coverage of Saints and this will not have gone unnoticed by his bosses. All newspapers pander to their readers' opinions and as they're now on pretty safe ground saying that the 'revolutionary' brand of football is an utter, utter failure they can hop on the bandwagon. I'd be interested to know how much influence this website has on the Echo's stance on Saints as the forum is a fairly representative cross-section of old and young fans and the decent debate is articulate and strongly reasoned on both sides, although it's clear what the broad consensus on most things is. Discuss: This forum is more of an agenda-setter than the Echo, which tends to reflect it - Simon Carter's piece today proves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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