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Thread: Saints 0-1 Newcastle - Reaction

  1. #201

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    Same "fans" defending yesterday's performance are coincidentally the same "fans" that defended everything after

    Burnley at home
    WHU at home
    Leicester at home
    Wolves at home
    Everton at home
    Bournemouth at home

    And the same "fans" that appreciated Les Reed / Big Kat our last 8 transfer windows and "proud of us" after only losing 4-0 to Liverpool

    The acceptance of pure **** is either admirable or pathetic

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    Two basic errors from players being not good enough for this level cost us the game. Djenepo's second touch send the ball 5 yards ahead of himself when dribbling leading to his lunge - see that all the time from players with poor control. And Valery's first touch - everything about it put him in trouble, his speed to the ball and the fact he needed a second touch to get it under control, and then his strength and spatial awareness following on from the poor first touch. It's not silly errors, some players lack the ability to play at this level, which requires the reasonably consistent execution of basic skills.

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    Valery has always been crap. Laughable he was talked about being better than Cedric

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingsbridge Saint View Post
    Two basic errors from players being not good enough for this level cost us the game. Djenepo's second touch send the ball 5 yards ahead of himself when dribbling leading to his lunge - see that all the time from players with poor control. And Valery's first touch - everything about it put him in trouble, his speed to the ball and the fact he needed a second touch to get it under control, and then his strength and spatial awareness following on from the poor first touch. It's not silly errors, some players lack the ability to play at this level, which requires the reasonably consistent execution of basic skills.
    It’s the same for so many games this season. We play okay but the make mistakes which costs us points, when it keeps happening week after week season after season it’s not lapses of concentration or bad coaching, it’s the players aren’t good enough, plain and simple. Yet say it you get told everything is fine and you’re just negative towards the club.

  6. #206

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    At least we sorted the RB position out in January.

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    Best atmos yesterday for a while. Even got the Chapel rocking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
    Christ there are some ridiculous over reactions on here.
    First half we were well in it until the sending off which completely changed the dynamic of the game and Newcastle did throw a lot at us for the last 15 before half time. However I can barely remember them having a chance in the second half, our players gave everything they had and we were only undone by a silly lapse in concentration from Valery, who that mistake aside had a decent game I thought. He is still young and was making his comeback after several months out, cut him a bit of slack. Seems like Cedric has suddenly become a world beater since leaving when in reality he was pretty poor for most of his time here and often slated on this forum. The way we battled in the second half I think a point would have been justified, it certainly wasn't a disgrace like some are claiming.
    A disappointing result but we should still be fine, just need to pick up a few more points here and there.
    Biggest positive I took away was the sense of camaraderie between the fans and players which seems to have been missing for a long time. Providing we're not playing behind closed doors that level of support needs to continue.
    Great post. The sending off changed the game completely. We didn't lose cos they were better as such, we lost because we played most of the game with 10 men.

    Re Cedric. Not only has he become a world beater since he's gone, he's also miraculously got over his injury that'll keep him out for another week or two. Truth is, if he was still here rather than KWP we'd have less options at RB but let's not let facts get in the way of a good whinge from the usual.

    We're far from great but we'll be ok.

  9. #209

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    Recent results confirm, to me, that Southampton's most important player (note I am not stating best player) is Stuart Armstrong; he alone has the ability to create opportunities for others, drawing away defenders with his pace and skill, as well as bang in a few goals himself.

  10. #210

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    Quote Originally Posted by beatlesaint View Post
    yes, in a nutshell thatís about it. Must admit watching the highlights I lost the sense of injustice I had at the game.
    Me too. I feel deflated now because at least in the pub afterwards we were all blaming (wrongly) the ref

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    Quote Originally Posted by East Kent Saint View Post
    The red card , in real time , looked like the Newcastle player got to the ball a fraction of a second earlier so to me that was a yellow . The on field ref , who saw it in real time , gave a yellow which reflected the intent angle as well as the timing . Of course in slo mo it looks worse because the timing is ignored ie there was no time to avoid contact in what was an attempt to block the ball. The penalty was also border line to me even in slo mo , how far up does the arm go ? he did move toward the ball but was another decision that was debateable in my view , great save though.
    Interesting to see WH waltz through Arsenal's defence as well !!
    That's my perspective too, on both incidents. The handball was marginal. Yes, he moved towards the ball to control it with his shoulder, but was nudged and the contact was probably upper arm. But it was close enough to be doubtful in the ref's eyes. Not a clear and obvious error. My main argument with it is consistency. In almost all cases like this VAR hasn't seen enough to overrule, but I got the feeling yesterday that the VAR ref was on a mission.

    On the red card, nowhere near as clear cut as many are suggesting. In real time, Djenepo was marginally late in trying to block the ball. The defender slid in and just got the ball with his leg horizontal. Djenepo was committed and landed on the leg. In my opinion, definitely no intent and not violent conduct. In slow motion, looked very different and you could see from MOTD that the ref only looked at slow motion on his monitor. I thought that was contrary to the protocol. Slow motion gave the impression that Djenepo had time to choose where his foot landed. He didn't. So I can understand the red on the basis of what the was shown on the monitor, but feel that the yellow given on the basis of his own eyesight in real time was correct. Once again, VAR ref on a mission?

    And again, it irks me that I've seen several incidents over the season where a stamp on an ankle is a clear, second, deliberate movement, and cases of kicking out, that have been brushed aside. No consistency.

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  12. #212

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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Clarke View Post
    At least we sorted the RB position out in January.
    That position has been Ralph's Achilles heel and you feel it still is

  13. #213

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaveloyMush View Post
    Recent results confirm, to me, that Southampton's most important player (note I am not stating best player) is Stuart Armstrong; he alone has the ability to create opportunities for others, drawing away defenders with his pace and skill, as well as bang in a few goals himself.
    hard to argue with that. He gets round the pitch so quickly and when in possession drives into space making things happen. We always seem a little flat and ponderous in attack when he doesn't play . I am not sure our press is all that without him either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaveloyMush View Post
    Recent results confirm, to me, that Southampton's most important player (note I am not stating best player) is Stuart Armstrong; he alone has the ability to create opportunities for others, drawing away defenders with his pace and skill, as well as bang in a few goals himself.
    Redmond’s a bigger miss than Armstrong.

  15. #215

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    If Norwich don't target our right side then Farke should be sacked immediately after the game

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fitzhugh Fella View Post
    That position has been Ralph's Achilles heel and you feel it still is
    Centre back too. 5 Centre backs and two rights backs in our books, all of they not good enough.

  17. #217

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    Thought Stephens and Bednarek were bloody awful yesterday!

    Should've been at least 3-0 down at HT.

  18. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    MOM McCarthy. Bet that hurts some on here.
    yep, all the Gunn fanboys and Forster weirdos will be upset.

  19. #219

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    In the cold light of day, my thoughts on the game. Just my opinions: not sure if I can be bothered to answer the trolls but if I do it'll be elsewhere, except to answer the question of what I actually thought of recent games by suggesting the questioner tries reading my posts rather than just posting what he/she considers will be most critical and attract attention.

    A critical factor that doesn't seem to have been mentioned much is that we went into this game without Armstrong or Redmond, our best AM pairing. Together they give our attack variety and edge, running at opponents but also seeing and executing key passes. This is an element of Redmond's game that's seen him improve hugely. Redmond and Bertrand also work well together. Boufal and Djenepo are, in my opinion, better as impact players. They can make exciting runs, but don't have as much insight to unpick defences.

    So, starting with Boufal and Djenepo was something that wasn't ideal. Maybe the alternatives could have been JWP as AM with Romeu, but that would have been seen as very defensive, or even Adams in the 10 role. Smallbone's absence was also important. If he'd been available, JWP could have stayed at RB to counter Saint-Maximin or given us another option at AM.

    We made a dodgy start. Saint-Maximin was too much if a handful for Valery. But thanks to some great work by McCarthy and poor finishing by them, we rode the initial storm. But our attack was disjointed: two flair players doing their own thing but not linking well. We're badly missing Redmond (and Armstrong). Without them, Danny's goals have dried up.

    I've said elsewhere that I thought Djenepo was unlucky with the red. I won't repeat myself. But, down to ten men, our options became very limited. I actually think the red card and penalty worked in our favour in a way. The incidents fired up both the team and the crowd, who were great.

    And, in all honesty, Newcastle offered little in the second half. 60% possession but did little with it. Until Valery's awful misjudgement I was feeling reasonably confident we were going to hold on and even grab a famous win. Long had a decent shot saved and missed an opportunity to put Ings in.

    I'm feeling sorry for the whole team this morning, but especially for Djenepo and Valery. There was a great performance from McCarthy and good ones from plenty of others, especially Stephens, Boufal, Hojbjerg and Valery until his cock-up. Ings worked hard but was starved of chances. JWP didn't manage to impose himself on midfield. We could have done with him contributing more going forward but out of necessity most of his work was defensive. Long wasted our best chance and didn't have his best game but, down to ten men, the opportunities for pressing were few. I thought Bertrand looked off-colour and Bednarek lacked sharpness.

    I'm genuinely upset for Djenepo as I'm sure he'll be devastated at getting sent off. You could see there was absolutely no violent intent and it was accidental. After his sad loss, I hope he'll get all the support he needs.

    And I'm pretty angry at those writing Valery off as useless after one mistake. Until then he put in a good performance, including one of our few shots on target! I'm guessing that if we hadn't list Djenepo, he might have been subbed. He's had a very nasty virus which badly affected his stamina and fitness. Before yesterday he'd only had 60 mins with the U23s and fatigue may have been a factor in his error. He clearly thought he could chest the ball back before clearing, but was outmuscled and outpaced. But that didn't make him a bad player.

    So, another very disappointing blue line. On to Norwich which feels at least like a mustn't lose if not a must win. With Djenepo and Redmond out, just hope that Armstrong is back. Otherwise, we are going to be decidedly toothless. It's ironic that the position where we seemed to have cover - Redmond, Djenepo and Boufal for one spot - is now our problem.

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  20. #220

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
    Christ there are some ridiculous over reactions on here.
    First half we were well in it until the sending off which completely changed the dynamic of the game and Newcastle did throw a lot at us for the last 15 before half time. However I can barely remember them having a chance in the second half, our players gave everything they had and we were only undone by a silly lapse in concentration from Valery, who that mistake aside had a decent game I thought. He is still young and was making his comeback after several months out, cut him a bit of slack. Seems like Cedric has suddenly become a world beater since leaving when in reality he was pretty poor for most of his time here and often slated on this forum. The way we battled in the second half I think a point would have been justified, it certainly wasn't a disgrace like some are claiming.
    A disappointing result but we should still be fine, just need to pick up a few more points here and there.
    Biggest positive I took away was the sense of camaraderie between the fans and players which seems to have been missing for a long time. Providing we're not playing behind closed doors that level of support needs to continue.
    Excellent post. Thank you.

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  21. #221

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post

    And I'm pretty angry at those writing Valery off as useless after one mistake. Until then he put in a good performance, including one of our few shots on target! I'm guessing that if we hadn't list Djenepo, he might have been subbed. He's had a very nasty virus which badly affected his stamina and fitness. Before yesterday he'd only had 60 mins with the U23s and fatigue may have been a factor in his error. He clearly thought he could chest the ball back before clearing, but was outmuscled and outpaced. But that didn't make him a bad player.
    He got done all ends up by Saint-Maximim in the first half, who then put a chance on an absolute plate for Gayle. For me that was more worrying than the mistake for the goal. He was simply too slow to stay with him. Hopefully that is just down to match sharpness, but IMO he another that perhaps has needed half a season in the championship to hone his skills. I am not convinced KWP is the answer at that position, so we may need to look again in the summer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Redmondís a bigger miss than Armstrong.
    They are both important. We had neither yesterday, and it showed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    In the cold light of day, my thoughts on the game. Just my opinions: not sure if I can be bothered to answer the trolls but if I do it'll be elsewhere, except to answer the question of what I actually thought of recent games by suggesting the questioner tries reading my posts rather than just posting what he/she considers will be most critical and attract attention.

    A critical factor that doesn't seem to have been mentioned much is that we went into this game without Armstrong or Redmond, our best AM pairing. Together they give our attack variety and edge, running at opponents but also seeing and executing key passes. This is an element of Redmond's game that's seen him improve hugely. Redmond and Bertrand also work well together. Boufal and Djenepo are, in my opinion, better as impact players. They can make exciting runs, but don't have as much insight to unpick defences.

    So, starting with Boufal and Djenepo was something that wasn't ideal. Maybe the alternatives could have been JWP as AM with Romeu, but that would have been seen as very defensive, or even Adams in the 10 role. Smallbone's absence was also important. If he'd been available, JWP could have stayed at RB to counter Saint-Maximin or given us another option at AM.

    We made a dodgy start. Saint-Maximin was too much if a handful for Valery. But thanks to some great work by McCarthy and poor finishing by them, we rode the initial storm. But our attack was disjointed: two flair players doing their own thing but not linking well. We're badly missing Redmond (and Armstrong). Without them, Danny's goals have dried up.

    I've said elsewhere that I thought Djenepo was unlucky with the red. I won't repeat myself. But, down to ten men, our options became very limited. I actually think the red card and penalty worked in our favour in a way. The incidents fired up both the team and the crowd, who were great.

    And, in all honesty, Newcastle offered little in the second half. 60% possession but did little with it. Until Valery's awful misjudgement I was feeling reasonably confident we were going to hold on and even grab a famous win. Long had a decent shot saved and missed an opportunity to put Ings in.

    I'm feeling sorry for the whole team this morning, but especially for Djenepo and Valery. There was a great performance from McCarthy and good ones from plenty of others, especially Stephens, Boufal, Hojbjerg and Valery until his cock-up. Ings worked hard but was starved of chances. JWP didn't manage to impose himself on midfield. We could have done with him contributing more going forward but out of necessity most of his work was defensive. Long wasted our best chance and didn't have his best game but, down to ten men, the opportunities for pressing were few. I thought Bertrand looked off-colour and Bednarek lacked sharpness.

    I'm genuinely upset for Djenepo as I'm sure he'll be devastated at getting sent off. You could see there was absolutely no violent intent and it was accidental. After his sad loss, I hope he'll get all the support he needs.

    And I'm pretty angry at those writing Valery off as useless after one mistake. Until then he put in a good performance, including one of our few shots on target! I'm guessing that if we hadn't list Djenepo, he might have been subbed. He's had a very nasty virus which badly affected his stamina and fitness. Before yesterday he'd only had 60 mins with the U23s and fatigue may have been a factor in his error. He clearly thought he could chest the ball back before clearing, but was outmuscled and outpaced. But that didn't make him a bad player.

    So, another very disappointing blue line. On to Norwich which feels at least like a mustn't lose if not a must win. With Djenepo and Redmond out, just hope that Armstrong is back. Otherwise, we are going to be decidedly toothless. It's ironic that the position where we seemed to have cover - Redmond, Djenepo and Boufal for one spot - is now our problem.

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    You thought Boufal had a good game?

  24. #224

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    He got done all ends up by Saint-Maximim in the first half, who then put a chance on an absolute plate for Gayle. For me that was more worrying than the mistake for the goal. He was simply too slow to stay with him. Hopefully that is just down to match sharpness, but IMO he another that perhaps has needed half a season in the championship to hone his skills. I am not convinced KWP is the answer at that position, so we may need to look again in the summer.
    I agree he couldn't handle Saint-Maximin, who had a very good game and would have troubled more experienced players But overall, I thought he was ok. You're probably right about match fitness especially after a nasty virus that would have sapped his stamina and energy.

    Interesting that Ralph picked him ahead of KWP.

    But I wouldn't be surprised to see JWP at RB again once Smallbone is back.

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    Last edited by Shroppie; 08-03-2020 at 12:10 PM.

  25. #225

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    Be careful wearing those rose tinted glasses for too long.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    You thought Boufal had a good game?
    Yes, in terms of working hard for a ten man team and playing his part defensively. I'd agree his vision and passing in attack could be better.

    If you judge his performance on whether he makes a mazy run beating four players before smashing the ball in the net, no he didn't do that. But the ability to do that should be a small part of his game as he'll only succeed about 1% of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Be careful wearing those rose tinted glasses for too long.
    I'd rather them that than yours which seem to make everything black.

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  28. #228

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    I'd rather them that than yours which seem to make everything black.

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    I'm just honest mate. Always have been. Some like it, some don't. That's just me

    I've pulled out the positives from yesterday - for example Alex Mc was outstanding.

    But for me the rest were poor and I'm not one to force false positives. I respect that you can, we are all different

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    I'm just honest mate. Always have been. Some like it, some don't. That's just me

    I've pulled out the positives from yesterday - for example Alex Mc was outstanding.

    But for me the rest were poor and I'm not one to force false positives. I respect that you can, we are all different
    This would be a boring place without opinions.

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  30. #230

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    This would be a boring place without opinions.

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    Absolutely. I wish I had some of your positivity I really do.

    But Saints have ground me down these past years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Absolutely. I wish I had some of your positivity I really do.

    But Saints have ground me down these past years.
    Don't get me wrong. I'm constantly being disappointed, especially when, like around Christmas, we seem to have turned a corner but then slip backwards again.

    We know that, with everyone fit, we have a decent team. It's frustrating that, like all except the super-rich, we can't support two quality players in every position so we quickly struggle if we get injuries or suspensions.

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    People are basing their opinion of Valery on all his games not his horror mistake yesterday. He may well improve, in all likelihood he probably will but he’s not good enough right now. And by the way, Maximin did him pretty much every time yesterday.

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    Valery has never been good enough.

    The amount of times he just passes it to the opposition or needlessly kicks it out is embarrassing.

  34. #234

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    Personally I think we have a massive attitude problem at the back. The coaching staff need to take a hard look at themselves. In game after game in the Premier a lot of teams think the short passing working out of the ball is the way to go which is utter nonsense. Yesterday for example Bournemouth did it twice lost the ball as a result and surrendered two goals.

    Mid table clubs have mid table defenders not MC or Barcelona etc so stop trying to play that way we just don't have the players. All our defenders assume that they can control the ball, beat opponents, pass it around. they can until they are challenged, then we are in trouble. It's high time they were forced to accept their limitations. Firstly pass it forward out of the danger zone alternatively smash it down the field, danger over. the last thing they should be trying to do is pull a ball down under pressure with an opponent on the way.

    I don't blame Valery or the others because it's up to the coaches to batter it out of them. Yesterday it required the anywhere ball which would have solved the problem immediately.
    Valery only did what he's been trained to do. We should be training the defenders to clear the ball into the next district when there is danger. OK if there is no pressure, play a pass but we have to be ruthless in defence at the moment because we defend like pussies.

    Yesterday at least three time we were breaking Newcastle's midfield and the player with the ball was body checked out of it. Once the refereee didn't give it although the check was made as another movement as the ball was past. that showed a ruthlessness we haven't got. All the top sides do it to stop attacks early. We need to get ruthless, physical and uncompromising when defending. We don't need to play football at the back because it gets us into trouble.

  35. #235

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    [QUOTE=Shroppie;2808453]That's my perspective too, on both incidents. The handball was marginal. Yes, he moved towards the ball to control it with his shoulder, but was nudged and the contact was probably upper arm. But it was close enough to be doubtful in the ref's eyes. Not a clear and obvious error. My main argument with it is consistency. In almost all cases like this VAR hasn't seen enough to overrule, but I got the feeling yesterday that the VAR ref was on a mission.

    On the red card, nowhere near as clear cut as many are suggesting. In real time, Djenepo was marginally late in trying to block the ball. The defender slid in and just got the ball with his leg horizontal. Djenepo was committed and landed on the leg. In my opinion, definitely no intent and not violent conduct. In slow motion, looked very different and you could see from MOTD that the ref only looked at slow motion on his monitor. I thought that was contrary to the protocol. Slow motion gave the impression that Djenepo had time to choose where his foot landed. He didn't. So I can understand the red on the basis of what the was shown on the monitor, but feel that the yellow given on the basis of his own eyesight in real time was correct. Once again, VAR ref on a mission?

    And again, it irks me that I've seen several incidents over the season where a stamp on an ankle is a clear, second, deliberate movement, and cases of kicking out, that have been brushed aside. No consistency.


    !@#$ VAR!! what is going on here? VAR was used correctly in the beginning of the year (Saints benefitted from it's correct calls, offsides etc.). Then after a few months, refs take a strop because VAR is showing them up and decide to not make any calls, allowing VAR to decide. A few months later an the Refs get their mojo back and VAR will not overrule the ref for obvious errors. Var seemed to take a back seat leaving the refs to make the call these final months only to be used to help the top 6 regain their "rightful place". Now VAR decided to overrule the refs call twice, the ref was in great positions both time to make a call, but VAR suddenly got the balls to overrule? Newcastle/WH needs the points! not us, big club they are and all?

    DJ stamp was not intentional, no weight was applied and the NC player got up and ran around for the rest of the game. We have seen this same tackle ignored or yellow given, why overrule the REF? standing ovation because we knew he was wronged!
    BF shoulder ball was a joke, no one mentions NC defender pulling on his arm as he is try to chest the ball, NC defender had no possession or position to make any goal scoring chance from that play. Ref is right infront of BF, 2 yard away, plays on and gives us a foul up the field. VAR, yes VAR again! pulls back play to award a penalty! what the F@!#k! not a clear and obvious mistake as I look at is several times in slow mo!

    How does VAR ignore the wrong call for the Carbo Cup and rob Villa of possible silverware? oh, because City need to win! VAR is just a troll for the big boys to get their way! Ignored when it is needed and used when its not! F!@#k VAR and the refs, they still introduce to much personal bias and we seem to be the ones constantly getting cocked.

    Please can a player make a pass to the ref and someone take him out with a crunching tackle for me, one of the best red cards I have ever taken...….march on Saints! march over the refs!


    I think we have been abused by the REFS over the last few games, I have seen to many calls go against us or not for us, since Christmas.

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    [QUOTE=Bermuda Saint;2808539]
    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    That's my perspective too, on both incidents. The handball was marginal. Yes, he moved towards the ball to control it with his shoulder, but was nudged and the contact was probably upper arm. But it was close enough to be doubtful in the ref's eyes. Not a clear and obvious error. My main argument with it is consistency. In almost all cases like this VAR hasn't seen enough to overrule, but I got the feeling yesterday that the VAR ref was on a mission.

    On the red card, nowhere near as clear cut as many are suggesting. In real time, Djenepo was marginally late in trying to block the ball. The defender slid in and just got the ball with his leg horizontal. Djenepo was committed and landed on the leg. In my opinion, definitely no intent and not violent conduct. In slow motion, looked very different and you could see from MOTD that the ref only looked at slow motion on his monitor. I thought that was contrary to the protocol. Slow motion gave the impression that Djenepo had time to choose where his foot landed. He didn't. So I can understand the red on the basis of what the was shown on the monitor, but feel that the yellow given on the basis of his own eyesight in real time was correct. Once again, VAR ref on a mission?

    And again, it irks me that I've seen several incidents over the season where a stamp on an ankle is a clear, second, deliberate movement, and cases of kicking out, that have been brushed aside. No consistency.


    !@#$ VAR!! what is going on here? VAR was used correctly in the beginning of the year (Saints benefitted from it's correct calls, offsides etc.). Then after a few months, refs take a strop because VAR is showing them up and decide to not make any calls, allowing VAR to decide. A few months later an the Refs get their mojo back and VAR will not overrule the ref for obvious errors. Var seemed to take a back seat leaving the refs to make the call these final months only to be used to help the top 6 regain their "rightful place". Now VAR decided to overrule the refs call twice, the ref was in great positions both time to make a call, but VAR suddenly got the balls to overrule? Newcastle/WH needs the points! not us, big club they are and all?

    DJ stamp was not intentional, no weight was applied and the NC player got up and ran around for the rest of the game. We have seen this same tackle ignored or yellow given, why overrule the REF? standing ovation because we knew he was wronged!
    BF shoulder ball was a joke, no one mentions NC defender pulling on his arm as he is try to chest the ball, NC defender had no possession or position to make any goal scoring chance from that play. Ref is right infront of BF, 2 yard away, plays on and gives us a foul up the field. VAR, yes VAR again! pulls back play to award a penalty! what the F@!#k! not a clear and obvious mistake as I look at is several times in slow mo!

    How does VAR ignore the wrong call for the Carbo Cup and rob Villa of possible silverware? oh, because City need to win! VAR is just a troll for the big boys to get their way! Ignored when it is needed and used when its not! F!@#k VAR and the refs, they still introduce to much personal bias and we seem to be the ones constantly getting cocked.

    Please can a player make a pass to the ref and someone take him out with a crunching tackle for me, one of the best red cards I have ever taken...Ö.march on Saints! march over the refs!


    I think we have been abused by the REFS over the last few games, I have seen to many calls go against us or not for us, since Christmas.
    Strongly put, but I fear you're not far from the truth.

    Would those same VAR decisions from yesterday have been made at Anfield against Liverpool?

    I think the relative seniority of ref and VAR ref is significant. Inexperienced VAR refs are reluctant to challenge a more experienced on-field ref. And more experienced VAR refs may well want to demonstrate their standing by intervening and showing they know better.

    I also notice that where both ref and VAR ref are experienced, overrules are rare.

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  37. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel View Post
    Best atmos yesterday for a while. Even got the Chapel rocking.
    Someone tell Martin keown and Jermaine jenas, it made zero ****ing difference.

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  38. #238

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    [QUOTE=Bermuda Saint;2808539]
    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    That's my perspective too, on both incidents. The handball was marginal. Yes, he moved towards the ball to control it with his shoulder, but was nudged and the contact was probably upper arm. But it was close enough to be doubtful in the ref's eyes. Not a clear and obvious error. My main argument with it is consistency. In almost all cases like this VAR hasn't seen enough to overrule, but I got the feeling yesterday that the VAR ref was on a mission.

    On the red card, nowhere near as clear cut as many are suggesting. In real time, Djenepo was marginally late in trying to block the ball. The defender slid in and just got the ball with his leg horizontal. Djenepo was committed and landed on the leg. In my opinion, definitely no intent and not violent conduct. In slow motion, looked very different and you could see from MOTD that the ref only looked at slow motion on his monitor. I thought that was contrary to the protocol. Slow motion gave the impression that Djenepo had time to choose where his foot landed. He didn't. So I can understand the red on the basis of what the was shown on the monitor, but feel that the yellow given on the basis of his own eyesight in real time was correct. Once again, VAR ref on a mission?

    And again, it irks me that I've seen several incidents over the season where a stamp on an ankle is a clear, second, deliberate movement, and cases of kicking out, that have been brushed aside. No consistency.


    !@#$ VAR!! what is going on here? VAR was used correctly in the beginning of the year (Saints benefitted from it's correct calls, offsides etc.). Then after a few months, refs take a strop because VAR is showing them up and decide to not make any calls, allowing VAR to decide. A few months later an the Refs get their mojo back and VAR will not overrule the ref for obvious errors. Var seemed to take a back seat leaving the refs to make the call these final months only to be used to help the top 6 regain their "rightful place". Now VAR decided to overrule the refs call twice, the ref was in great positions both time to make a call, but VAR suddenly got the balls to overrule? Newcastle/WH needs the points! not us, big club they are and all?

    DJ stamp was not intentional, no weight was applied and the NC player got up and ran around for the rest of the game. We have seen this same tackle ignored or yellow given, why overrule the REF? standing ovation because we knew he was wronged!
    BF shoulder ball was a joke, no one mentions NC defender pulling on his arm as he is try to chest the ball, NC defender had no possession or position to make any goal scoring chance from that play. Ref is right infront of BF, 2 yard away, plays on and gives us a foul up the field. VAR, yes VAR again! pulls back play to award a penalty! what the F@!#k! not a clear and obvious mistake as I look at is several times in slow mo!

    How does VAR ignore the wrong call for the Carbo Cup and rob Villa of possible silverware? oh, because City need to win! VAR is just a troll for the big boys to get their way! Ignored when it is needed and used when its not! F!@#k VAR and the refs, they still introduce to much personal bias and we seem to be the ones constantly getting cocked.

    Please can a player make a pass to the ref and someone take him out with a crunching tackle for me, one of the best red cards I have ever taken...Ö.march on Saints! march over the refs!


    I think we have been abused by the REFS over the last few games, I have seen to many calls go against us or not for us, since Christmas.
    Absolutely Right. I'm glad someone else sees it the way I do. No way could Djenepo avoid that outstretched leg . If the leg had come out a split second earlier he would have brought Djenepo down. What would have happened then?? The whole VAR thing is a nonsense. It is not VAR itself but the various interpretations of situations. They have lost me! (I am a former Referee admittedly at a lowly level but I would have been run out of town for interpreting the laws like this!)

  39. #239

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    Quote Originally Posted by derry View Post
    Personally I think we have a massive attitude problem at the back. The coaching staff need to take a hard look at themselves. In game after game in the Premier a lot of teams think the short passing working out of the ball is the way to go which is utter nonsense. Yesterday for example Bournemouth did it twice lost the ball as a result and surrendered two goals.

    Mid table clubs have mid table defenders not MC or Barcelona etc so stop trying to play that way we just don't have the players. All our defenders assume that they can control the ball, beat opponents, pass it around. they can until they are challenged, then we are in trouble. It's high time they were forced to accept their limitations. Firstly pass it forward out of the danger zone alternatively smash it down the field, danger over. the last thing they should be trying to do is pull a ball down under pressure with an opponent on the way.

    I don't blame Valery or the others because it's up to the coaches to batter it out of them. Yesterday it required the anywhere ball which would have solved the problem immediately.
    Valery only did what he's been trained to do. We should be training the defenders to clear the ball into the next district when there is danger. OK if there is no pressure, play a pass but we have to be ruthless in defence at the moment because we defend like pussies.

    Yesterday at least three time we were breaking Newcastle's midfield and the player with the ball was body checked out of it. Once the refereee didn't give it although the check was made as another movement as the ball was past. that showed a ruthlessness we haven't got. All the top sides do it to stop attacks early. We need to get ruthless, physical and uncompromising when defending. We don't need to play football at the back because it gets us into trouble.
    You are basically describing Burnley. Safety first, second third, fourth...quickly, hoof it down the line, then chase it, pick the pieces, get it into the mixer and let strong forwards do the rest. It works, to a degree, but I simply don't want to see my £120m a year wage bill spent on a team that is coached to do this. I want defenders that get the ball down and keep possession not just turn it over. When you relieve pressure in this way (hoofing it), its amazing how quickly the ball comes back at you and you are stretched again. You won't hear a larger moan at SMS than when a defender hacks the ball away straight back to our opponents rather than show composure and keep the thing.

    We do have players like Bertrand, Stephens (and Cedric until recently) that are comfortable on the ball and can play it out from the back. I get it, you can over play, but its all about good decision making. I want my side to pass short, then get players between the lines with ability and pace and hopefully witness goals likes we saw at Spurs.

  40. #240

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    Yes, in terms of working hard for a ten man team and playing his part defensively. I'd agree his vision and passing in attack could be better.

    If you judge his performance on whether he makes a mazy run beating four players before smashing the ball in the net, no he didn't do that. But the ability to do that should be a small part of his game as he'll only succeed about 1% of the time.

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    He's not in the team to work hard or put in a shift defensively, he's in the team to create and be that spark which opens teams up and helps us create. He doesn't do that, and has very rarely done that for us. It was his chance yesterday to really stamp his authority on the game in an attacking sense, given he was the only attacking midfielder left in the side.

    He didn't. He flattered as per usual, and he needs to be gone out of the door asap in the summer.

  41. #241

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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Clarke View Post
    He's not in the team to work hard or put in a shift defensively, he's in the team to create and be that spark which opens teams up and helps us create. He doesn't do that, and has very rarely done that for us. It was his chance yesterday to really stamp his authority on the game in an attacking sense, given he was the only attacking midfielder left in the side.

    He didn't. He flattered as per usual, and he needs to be gone out of the door asap in the summer.
    Yesterday he needed to do that, and did it quite well. But otherwise, I agree. Wouldn't be sorry to see him go.

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  42. #242

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    You thought Boufal had a good game?
    And Stephens? Him and Bednarek were f*cking awful first half. 3 times players left unmarked in loads of space on the edge of the six yard box, one was a bad miss, the others times McCarthy bailed them out. Arguably you could say one them could have been covering Valery for the goal too.

  43. #243

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    Dear God, are you for real.

    Got to love the people moaning about VAR. I didnít want it, but today is exactly why it was brought in. Without it, a red card offence would have been yellow, and a handball would have been missed. Had Bertrand got ďstudded in the chestĒ in a manner deserving of a red , the bloke would have got one. Thereís no great conspiracy against Saints.
    I donít mind VAR. Iíve not got an issue with the VAR decisions that went against us.

    I did think the foul on Bertrand was worth looking at, so was a penalty appeal in the first half.

    VAR is still in its infancy and will hopefully improve over time.

  44. #244

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    And Stephens? Him and Bednarek were f*cking awful first half. 3 times players left unmarked in loads of space on the edge of the six yard box, one was a bad miss, the others times McCarthy bailed them out. Arguably you could say one them could have been covering Valery for the goal too.
    Just how much of the game have you actually seen?

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  45. #245

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    Just how much of the game have you actually seen?

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    All of it. Who was responsible for leaving Gayle and almeron in acres of space in the penalty area of it wasn’t our two Centre backs?

  46. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by S-Clarke View Post
    He's not in the team to work hard or put in a shift defensively, he's in the team to create and be that spark which opens teams up and helps us create. He doesn't do that, and has very rarely done that for us. It was his chance yesterday to really stamp his authority on the game in an attacking sense, given he was the only attacking midfielder left in the side.

    He didn't. He flattered as per usual, and he needs to be gone out of the door asap in the summer.
    He got tackled by a player laying flat out and motionless on the floor yesterday. He's got fantastic skill but he's just brainless I'm afraid, head down all the time, just not aware of what's developing around him. It's been the best part of 4 seasons and the same number of managers now and his obvious ability still hasn't been honed into anything consistently useful. Damn shame really, I thought maybe Ralph would be the man to get the best out of him, but it just ain't ever going to happen.

  47. #247

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    All of it. Who was responsible for leaving Gayle and almeron in acres of space in the penalty area of it wasnít our two Centre backs?
    Surprised then that you didn't see the great defensive effort in the second half.

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  48. #248

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    Surprised then that you didn't see the great defensive effort in the second half.

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    I quite clearly said in the post you replied to They were awful in the first half. Try reading it properly before being trying to be smart.

  49. #249

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    I quite clearly said in the post you replied to They were awful in the first half. Try reading it properly before being trying to be smart.
    But you didn't say much better in the second half. Glad you've clarified that you omitted that.

    Oh, sorry, forgot. Of course you never post anything positive.

    I don't need to try to be smart.

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    Last edited by Shroppie; 08-03-2020 at 06:29 PM.

  50. #250

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    Lucky not to be 3 or 4 down at half time, utter sh*te. Second half better and looked comfortable, thought we'd got away with it but didn't count on our ability to absolutely balls up and give away a pathetic goal again. The individual errors leading to goals never end.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    But you didn't say much better in the second half. Glad you've clarified that you omitted that.

    Oh, sorry, forgot. Of course you never post anything positive.

    I don't need to try to be smart.

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    Yes I did, on the first page of this threat, so wrong again.

    Read what I actually say, not what you think i say.

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