Pompey Takeover Saga

[beatlesaint]

why is this the case?

 

The spokesman said: "The serving of this notice means the winding up order is automatically suspended.

 

"It means the club is safe, it can fulfil its fixtures and as far as is possible it is business as usual.

 

"Administration would mean the club re-emerging as a healthy financial entity.

 

 

 

606: DEBATE

Give your views on Pompey's future

 

"It would then become an attractive proposition for a potential buyer who could invest new funds in

 

There is absolutely no guarantee or nothing to suggest that the club would re-emerge as a healthy financial entity.

There is nothing to suggest it would become an attractive proposition for a potential buyer because -

 

a - there is no guarantee it would start life in the CCC on 0 points

b - there is still the little matter of renting the ground, the land around it etc

c - the fact there is, as Steve Claridge keeps trying to point out, no infrastructure at the club.

d - there would be significant money needed to buy a team to compete in the CCC. Rupert Lowe, Portaloo, young players not ready ring any bells ?

 

I'm sure there are many more but thiose will do off the top of mu head.....

[Joensuu]

You ARE going blind! His name is there.

 

??: Still can't see "Levi" anywhere on the page... (perhaps my browser is caching it?)

[Saint_clark]

to me it sounds like chainrai is trying to force any interested parties hand - thats if there are any of course

 

Playing a dangerous game then. If the "interested parties" have any back bone then you could well be looking at -15 next season.

[Under Weststand]

Just heard it on the way in on the radio. Now they are saying that they will now be able to fulfil their fixture's?

I would have thought that there is a long way to go before that occurs, they surely have to get an administrator to take them on, & as such they have to be able to finance the club until they find a buyer don't they? I'm sure that the day they opt for Administration, they new administrators first job is to pay the wages & TAX & PAYE due this month? very attractive to a potential Administrator.

What happens about the court case on Monday, do they still have to go, because I thought that the court case was more about them trading insolvently? Maybe wrong, or does administration protect them from that. I thought that administration protected you from creditors, but will it protect them from trading insolvently. Because then the HMRC would be after the directors for payment.

Or being cynical, is it chainrai's way of look we tried everything even going into Administration but they wouldn't let us save the club! Can I please build a housing estate & a 100000 sqr-mtr supermarket.

[Mattio]

Sorry if its been asked but if pompey go into administration and are relegated without the deduction does the 9 point (why not 10 btw?) deduction go over to next season?

[JackFrost]

So. Hang on. The only assets they have currently are the players.

 

However a small stumbling block. they will all be able to serve notice of breach of contract come Friday as they will not have been paid. Allowing them to find new clubs after 14 days. They will be allowed to sign and play this season because they are free agents. (I believe transfer windows don't count in this scenario).

 

So If they go into admin. What Assets do they have. None apart from fixture and fittings.

 

In this case someone comes in and pays 10p in every pound for well a wobbly chair and a notepad. Thats still the best part of what £7m?

 

But bearing in mind HMRC won't take a CVA. They may well struggle to come out of admin and will probably still get wound up. The difference is that by going into admin the preferred creditors and not the HMRC get their money.

 

Interesting.

 

What could HMRC do in their power with regards to this?

 

Apply for another winding up order?

[ray951]

At what point do FL rules start to apply? Is it at the end of the season, beginning of next or sometime in between. This could be important given the lack of penalties in the PL for CVA, admin, etc.

[JonnyLove]

The only rule I can find for Premier is the 9 points deduction.

 

If PFC come out of Administration before the end of the season that will likely be that.

 

If the Administration goes past the end of the season and PFC are relegated, as seems certain, they will have to apply to the FL to get the "golden share" and if they have not reached CVA with at least 75% of creditors, and we know the HMRC will not agree one, they will likely be subject to a further points deduction. As it is their second Administration it would likely attract a further 15 points.

 

Anyone who has professional knowledge and wants to challenge my assumptions, I would be interested in their views.

 

Unfortunately if BC & SG both agree to it then thats more than 75% of the creditors. Remember it's 75% of the total amount of credit not the number of people who are creditors.

 

Bastards bet they get away with it as well.

[Kingsland Red]

Sorry if its been asked but if pompey go into administration and are relegated without the deduction does the 9 point (why not 10 btw?) deduction go over to next season?

 

9 points for a 38 game season (EPL); 10 for a 46 game season (FL)

[Saint_clark]

Well that's that then. They've got away with it. C*cks.

[hypochondriac]

So they can go into admin then? Im confused!

[saint lard]

Some seem happy with this 'result'

And even planning their European assault,business as usual for them.....

 

"Get to the final and of course if the other finalist has already qualified it would stick us in Europe. This could be really important in attracting players as we will likely be in a relegation battle all next season (-15 points if were lucky)

[Channon's Sideburns]

Solent are still saying that the court case has been suspended.

 

Where's the proof apart from Chinarai's statement ?????????

 

Sky News saying the same.....

 

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/Portsmouth-FC-Owner-Says-Club-Will-Go-Into-Administration-If-It-Cannot-Find-Buyer-By-Friday/Article/201002415557976?lpos=Business_First_UK_News_Article_Teaser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15557976_Portsmouth_FC_Owner_Says_Club_Will_Go_Into_Administration_If_It_Cannot_Find_Buyer_By_Friday

 

I can't see how, if he is now termed as the 'owner' that HE can put them into admin.

 

What is the fookin point of a WUO meeting if it can be avoided by sidestepping the process?

Edited 23 February, 2010 by Channon's Sideburns

[bridge too far]

??: Still can't see "Levi" anywhere on the page... (perhaps my browser is caching it?)

 

Strange - it was there when you first said you couldn't see it but now it's gone!

 

Curiouser and curiouser

[derry]

http://www.pompeyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55980

 

Love this:

 

Just having a look at CVA figures, 75% approval, HMRC debt now about £18m in total plus £8m in july makes £26m ish which means unless the debt is over £100m they can block any CVA.

 

It is safe to assume that the salaries alone will take care of the income. The FA receive the Sky money and will pay that direct to the clubs owed about £12m at the end of the season, so how are they going to make this work as most of the best players are loans. We know how difficult it is to get high earners off the payroll. Paying them off won't be an option and the football debts have to be paid in full.

 

I'd be interested to know if a notice of administration trumps an ajourned court hearing.

[Gingeletiss]

What if (someone has already touched on this)...and this is really reaching now, what if the secret meetings held in a London hotel, have in fact been with representatives of the PL. Bearing in mind the link between them/Storrie and the now, very long list of owners....What if!!!!!!!!!!!!

[St Marco]

So lets assume they go into admin, they get the -9 meaning they are down. They manage to somehow keep going for a couple of months until the end of the season.

 

Once that final game has been played does that then mean the PL no longer have any say in the matter? I.e does it mean Pompey then come under the FL rules and not the PL?

 

Maybe Red and White can answer seeing he is an adult who knows what is going on apparently?

 

Also was it confirmed they had to pay £1.8m to the taxman yesterday?

[gaz]

If Chanrai isn't the owner, and Storrie is working to the owners' wishes, who the hell is he working for now?

[JonnyLove]

Oh sod it.

 

I have just realized a way they can get out of this.

 

1) The club goes into admin

2) The main creditors BC & SG agree to take £1 each from a a buyer to cover all their debts. Because they are the largest creditors (probaly totaling more than 75% of debt) the CVA is agreed and everyone else gets sod all.

3) Remeber BC will get his money back from leasing the stadium for 15 years or what ever.

4) SG gets his extra money from laundry days with the parachute payments.

 

And it's just another tale in the ongoing saga. Feel free to make up your own ideas on this as well.

 

However I have just though whilst typing that BC & SG may not have a total of 75% as remember BG just wiped of £10M of credit by taking the stadium.

 

So who knows wonder if this is his plan all along

[Thedelldays]

what happened to being taken over by monday just gone..?

 

i see the spin is now that "admin is good"...

[St Marco]

"If" they do go into admin i can't see the HMRC signing off their debt. The reason they are in this situation is because of that debt you would think. SG and BC would not chase the debt or want them to go into admin. Least that is what i think.

[Gingeletiss]

Just having a look at CVA figures, 75% approval, HMRC debt now about £18m in total plus £8m in july makes £26m ish which means unless the debt is over £100m they can block any CVA.

 

It is safe to assume that the salaries alone will take care of the income. The FA receive the Sky money and will pay that direct to the clubs owed about £12m at the end of the season, so how are they going to make this work as most of the best players are loans. We know how difficult it is to get high earners off the payroll. Paying them off won't be an option and the football debts have to be paid in full.

 

I'd be interested to know if a notice of administration trumps an ajourned court hearing.

 

Again, I repeat. The Registrar has asked for the Sof A, and I'm still sure (not 100% benji), that she can act on it. Also, HMRC have had that same document, I suspect they will have their top people working on this problem.

[Channon's Sideburns]

Again, I repeat. The Registrar has asked for the Sof A, and I'm still sure (not 100% benji), that she can act on it. Also, HMRC have had that same document, I suspect they will have their top people working on this problem.

 

I reckon HMRC will be on the case over all this today.

 

They are not going to be pleased.

 

Insolvency expert on Solent now...

[Channon's Sideburns]

He said...

 

Administrator will ensure Insolvency Hearing dismissed for Monday.

 

Reckons the debts can be restructured.

 

Wage Bill is an issue - money needs to cover trading.

 

Administrator would have to assess before Friday whether enough income would be there to run the club until a buyer (:-D) would be found.

 

 

HOPE THE FOOKERS FAIL.

[derry]

Again, I repeat. The Registrar has asked for the Sof A, and I'm still sure (not 100% benji), that she can act on it. Also, HMRC have had that same document, I suspect they will have their top people working on this problem.

 

Could the judge still hold the court hearing on monday as the notice was today, so needs 5 (presumably) working days before an administrator can be appointed, ie Tuesday so I presume they won't be in administration on Monday.

[Weston Saint]

For all those so called experts who said they could not go into Administration because of the winding up order - none of the media introduced experts say so!

 

Two ways - apply to the courts or give notice of intention to appoint administrators and then after 5 days Administrators step in, just before the winding up hearing.

 

Will come as no suprise to HMRC. They were no doubt expecting it.

[derry]

For all those so called experts who said they could not go into Administration because of the winding up order - none of the media introduced experts say so!

 

Two ways - apply to the courts or give notice of intention to appoint administrators and then after 5 days Administrators step in, just before the winding up hearing.

 

Will come as no suprise to HMRC. They were no doubt expecting it.

 

5 calender days Ron, or 5 working days which would be Tuesday.

[Thedelldays]

5 calender days Ron, or 5 working days which would be Tuesday.

they probably did it yesterday

[Danny]

If Pompey's total debt is £60m (or above) and the HMRC are owed £12m, judging what has been said above, HMRC will not be able to contest the CVA (£12m is only 20 per cent of £60m).

 

However, if the HMRC are owed the £18m that has been reported in recent days, HMRC can challenge the debt (£18m is roughly 30 per cent of £60m and about 26 per cent of £70m).

 

Of course, this is dependent on the 75 per cent of total debt thing being correct, of which I have no idea.

Edited 23 February, 2010 by Danny

[Matthew Le God]

Well that's that then. They've got away with it. C*cks.

 

Hardly got away with it. They are screwed financially for years. No CVA will also mean a points deduction in the Championship.

[bridge too far]

This is what an Insolvency Practitioner says about WUPs:

 

What can I do if we receive one? What should I do?

Other than pay up there are only a few other options. There may still be time to propose a Company Voluntary Arrangement if you act FAST....call .......

 

Other options include taking legal advice on defending the petition (if is not an agreed debt for instance).

 

If the business IS VIABLE and has a good future then administration is a very powerful means to defend the company against the petition.

 

Administration will “stay” (or postpone) the winding up petition and prevent a winding up order being made and any other legal action (except with leave of court).

 

The administrator may propose a Company Voluntary Arrangement to protect the business and allow a repayment of debts for up to 5 years. Or it may be sold to a new company or buyers (including you as directors). See the administration guide pages here.

 

If you decide to pay the debt, remember it will have increased because of the costs of the plaintiff (creditor).

[derry]

If Pompey's total debt is £60m (or above) and the HMRC are owed £12m, judging what has been said above, HMRC will not be able to contest the CVA (£12m is only 20 per cent of £60m).

 

However, if the HMRC are owed the £18m that has been reported in recent days, HMRC can challenge the debt (£18m is roughly 30 per cent of £60m and about 26 per cent of £70m).

 

Increasing by at least £1.5m per month.

[Channon's Sideburns]

Could the judge still hold the court hearing on monday as the notice was today, so needs 5 (presumably) working days before an administrator can be appointed, ie Tuesday so I presume they won't be in administration on Monday.

 

I get the feeling this end result does the following:

 

a) eradicates the meeting which would confirm they are insolvent;

b) this gets Storrie and Premier Lge et al off the hook (for now);

c) gives Chinarai a route out (whilst maintaining the ground freehold);

d) passes the overall destiny of the club from Chinarai to the Administrator

e) Administrator views the books...and then it would then pass details on if suspicious.

f) they get relegated, stumble to end of season, and freefall.

g) they are no longer the Premier League's problem.

 

I get the feeling that Chinarai will walk away the 'hero'....with Storrie left looking over his shoulder.

[Weston Saint]

5 calender days Ron, or 5 working days which would be Tuesday.

 

5 calander days, so Saturday or Sunday. They would not have given that notice today otherwise

[saint_bert]

Damn. It's not right this. Not right at all

[Channon's Sideburns]

they probably did it yesterday

 

Which probably indicates their meetings til 2am were probably with the Prem and lawyers.

 

Just a wild assumption.

[Saint_clark]

Hardly got away with it. They are screwed financially for years. No CVA will also mean a points deduction in the Championship.

 

This is one big dodgy pile of w*nk MLG. Chainrai, Kushnir, Gaydamak, Azougy - they all have history together. It's looking to me like they knew what they were doing from the very beginning, and i'm thinking that post-admin an even dodgier rich bloke will come in and get the club for sod all, with Chainrai and Gaydamak signing off on it.

Meh, what do I know.

[View From The Top]

well it's clear administration is going to happen as no buyer is now going to spunk his money when he can get it for peanuts after Friday.

[rallyboy]

could I hazard a guess that the club is talking crap again and that the court and the taxman may have a different view of how things move forward?

 

And I recall what a world of plenty we found admin to be, so many offers, so much positivity, happy days......

 

Either way, by pledging his support and no money, Chanrai has today guaranteed the future of this thread.

 

Poor old Phil, they pull this stunt while he's getting his beauty sleep!

He's gonna go keyboard crazy when he catches up....so many ways they can implode, where to start??

 

 

 

The number of postings here will pass their average attendance before they can get into admin!

[Under Weststand]

I'd like to know from any legal eagles on here where they stand with Monday's hearing, they were only given time to get the buyer in, under threat that they were Insolvent, which has proved to be true. So how can they just turn around before the re-convening of the court case & do this. if Administration happens what happens to the court case is it adjourned? or is just a case of that's it all over. Or as they've registered the SOA does it still stand as a legal document for HMRC to use against the directors of the club.

[Faz]

If Pompey's total debt is £60m (or above) and the HMRC are owed £12m, judging what has been said above, HMRC will not be able to contest the CVA (£12m is only 20 per cent of £60m).

 

However, if the HMRC are owed the £18m that has been reported in recent days, HMRC can challenge the debt (£18m is roughly 30 per cent of £60m and about 26 per cent of £70m).

 

Of course, this is dependent on the 75 per cent of total debt thing being correct, of which I have no idea.

 

Is it not 75% of the paticipating debt? Bear in mind Chainrai has cleared £10m of debt by taking the Ground. Also Gheydamak may be secured against other assets. If G decides to stand outside the CVA, relying upon his security, then it's entirely possible HMRC have a blocking share. That's not to say they won't accept a CVA, but would still be looking for the prospect of a reasonable dividend. And, if the CVA fails, they're back to square one.

 

The CVA will be predicated upon sale of assets or TV money providing the funds to pay it up - how they can do that and survive in the Championship I don't know. If they don't exit via a CVA then isn't it another deduction of 20 points or so? And they still need to clear football debts.

 

I'm still booking my seat for the 20000 post page.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

. . . . .

 

Storrie will have to pull the fake heart attack routine in the courtroom and hope for an adjournment

 

Has he got a heart then?

[Channon's Sideburns]

could I hazard a guess that the club is talking crap again and that the court and the taxman may have a different view of how things move forward?

 

And I recall what a world of plenty we found admin to be, so many offers, so much positivity, happy days......

 

Either way, by pledging his support and no money, Chanrai has today guaranteed the future of this thread.

 

Poor old Phil, they pull this stunt while he's getting his beauty sleep!

He's gonna go keyboard crazy when he catches up....so many ways they can implode, where to start??

 

 

 

The number of postings here will pass their average attendance before they can get into admin!

 

Just putting 2 and 2 together...

 

Weston stated to get this plan into place that they would have had to applied for this back on Saturday or Sunday.....

 

Phil mentioned something happening over the weekend that may have changed the '48hours' mentioned by Storyteller.....

 

Cue influx of articles online on Monday about the 'takeover'...

[Viking Warrior]

Can someone clarify (Ron) if they go into administration and only 75% of creditors get paid, Does that mean sol campbell will not get paid the 1.7m for his brand image rights. Poor poor lad if he misses out. My concern will be for the caterers and small businesses who could miss out on recieving monies owed to them

 

meanwhile the skates get out of jail free and start afresh with a 9 point deduction and no debts.

 

Is it still mathmatically possible for them avoid relegation from the premier league even if they were given a 9point deduction. If that were to happen it will **** off a lot of other clubs lurking around the bottom of the league knowing full well the skates have be trading and playing as an insolvent club

[pfc123]

Unfortunately if BC & SG both agree to it then thats more than 75% of the creditors. Remember it's 75% of the total amount of credit not the number of people who are creditors.

 

Bastards bet they get away with it as well.

 

Correct. Probably. It seems on the surface that all Chanrai has to do now is keep paying the current PAYE & VAT to make sure that the debt owed to them stays below 25% of the total, and the revenue can stamp their feet as much as they like

[St Marco]

That is a good point View From the Top

 

Basically they have said they are going into admin on friday if no deal is done.

So why would anyone want to come in now when they know in a couple of days they could get it for a fraction of the price for the admin team?

At that point the buyer becomes more powerful because the admin team will need money, their negotiating strategy would be simple i.e give us your ******* money.

Where as negotiating with the current people ala Storrie etc it is obviously not that simple.

[Saint_clark]

Hang on - when the f*ck did Kushnir take control of his shares?

[Channon's Sideburns]

Well, Mark Fry said that they would not have been given the 7 days normally....

 

Great move by the Judge.

 

Justice has not been served.

 

So, Poopey are saved for a month or two whilst local businesses may go to the wall as a result....hardly fair is it?

[Faz]

This is what an Insolvency Practitioner says about WUPs:

 

What can I do if we receive one? What should I do?

Other than pay up there are only a few other options. There may still be time to propose a Company Voluntary Arrangement if you act FAST....call .......

 

Other options include taking legal advice on defending the petition (if is not an agreed debt for instance).

 

If the business IS VIABLE and has a good future then administration is a very powerful means to defend the company against the petition.

 

Administration will “stay” (or postpone) the winding up petition and prevent a winding up order being made and any other legal action (except with leave of court).

 

The administrator may propose a Company Voluntary Arrangement to protect the business and allow a repayment of debts for up to 5 years. Or it may be sold to a new company or buyers (including you as directors). See the administration guide pages here.

 

If you decide to pay the debt, remember it will have increased because of the costs of the plaintiff (creditor).

 

So, with the SoA in hand, HMRC could approach the Judge and ask them to view Administration as an expediance with no prospect of success, and ask for the winding up anyway?

[Channon's Sideburns]

Hang on - when the f*ck did Kushnir take control of his shares?

 

Yep, I spotted that earlier.

 

Don't worry - they'll be well out of there before the FA or the Prem even realise.

 

They just don't fookin care.