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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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tony13579

tony13579

Posted
Posted
""The clubs that run themselves extremely well, extremely prudently, extremely sensibly are tarred with the same brush - that football is a financial basket-case, which it is not.

"

How many clubs were on court for non payment of taxes? What is the debt level in the prem? How many prem clubs could go to a high street bank and get a loan approved using normal banking application proceedures?

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted

Un-bloody-believable.

 

"So when you look in the mirror there is a degree of 'I wish I had trusted them less!'"

 

Well, Mr. Scudamore, it was bloody obvious to about 10,000 people here on this thread, and we have been screaming this for a year. Thanks a lot for believing their lies and so allowing them to strengthen their squad for their FA cup run (at our expense and others). You idiot.

 

But the no-nonsense chief executive says it has also prompted the rest of the Premier League clubs to unite and fast track through a new set of strict rules and regulations in a bid to ensure there will never be a repeat.

A bit late now, you tart. Oh yes, and thanks for increasing the parachute payments to a whopping £48 million - what a punishment and kick in the teeth for Cheats FC that is. NOT. :x

Anyway, if you want to make some amends, please repeat what you said to Mr. Mann tomorrow: tell him all about the

 

CHEATING, LYING BASTARDS.

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
So, presumably, the Chancer has to either resit his test from the other day OR it was already in plaice when he did it?

 

It's only a PL thing so not something anyone owning pompey will have to worry about for a long time.

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EastleighSoulBoy

EastleighSoulBoy

Posted
Posted

Scudamore confirmed the Pompey scandal has done worldwide damage to the reputation of the Premier League.

 

So, apparently no concern whatsoever about the local businesses or HMRC (flick the Vs) no concern for football creditors, no wuckin' furrys because theirs is guaranteed.

 

Just my businesses reputation is all I'm worried about.

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tony13579

tony13579

Posted
Posted

I can't access Pompey On Line from this location, however PompeyScott reported on a meeting with Lampit and he received a phone call telling him he reported too well and HMRC may have taken an interest in what he said!They may have been to honest in the meeting.

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

that's significant, very late but significant.

The Premier League now accepts that Pompey misled them to gain a competitive advantage - I think they also now realise that one of their members was also trading insolvently in breach of regulations.

Either way someone in authority has finally confirmed what Platini and Wenger have already said, that Pompey cheated.

Welcome to our world.

 

Now we just need to see a sweating AA in a witness box trying to confirm all the debt and bumbling through an explanation as to why he threw out a tax claim instead of accepting it and challenging it as is the correct procedure - and we have a good day!

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GenevaSaint

GenevaSaint

Posted
Posted
God I hate the Premier league...I have no desire to return there any time soon (in it's current form anyway)

 

I'm with you Warsash, the latest ****** from Scudamore just enforces the opinion for me. We were misled my arse, you bent over backwards for Pompey and now you're trying to protect the "brand". Wayne Kerr.

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
I can't access Pompey On Line from this location, however PompeyScott reported on a meeting with Lampit and he received a phone call telling him he reported too well and HMRC may have taken an interest in what he said!They may have been to honest in the meeting.

 

Think that was the bit where lampitt effectively claimed HMRC where also manipulating their debt, thus confirming that pompey had been actively trying to increase theirs.

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Red and White Army

Red and White Army

Posted
Posted
I can't access Pompey On Line from this location, however PompeyScott reported on a meeting with Lampit and he received a phone call telling him he reported too well and HMRC may have taken an interest in what he said!They may have been to honest in the meeting.

 

If that idiot plays a small role in their downfall I would **** myself with laughter.

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pallidcreatures

pallidcreatures

Posted
Posted

Just listen to Scudamore's horrible passive tone.

 

"We were duped" my Arse. Nothing was done to the league other than what you let happen.

 

Show some frikking spine and accept you screwed up at least. If Fulhams allegations are founded, there'll be no passive voice then. They are alleging nothing less than complicity.

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GenevaSaint

GenevaSaint

Posted
Posted
I can't access Pompey On Line from this location, however PompeyScott reported on a meeting with Lampit and he received a phone call telling him he reported too well and HMRC may have taken an interest in what he said!They may have been to honest in the meeting.

 

Here's the section I think they're talking about tony.....

 

"The value of the claim regarding image rights. HMRC obviously claim that there has been, to use Lampitt’s phrase, ‘value management’ in the amount of debt which we have as a club but, in turn, it has to be recognised that HMRC have also been guilty of this with their raised claims. To get their claim up to the 25% required to successfully appeal, they have to prove 95% of their new claim (basically £12m of their additional £13m)."

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
Here's the section I think they're talking about tony.....

 

"The value of the claim regarding image rights. HMRC obviously claim that there has been, to use Lampitt’s phrase, ‘value management’ in the amount of debt which we have as a club but, in turn, it has to be recognised that HMRC have also been guilty of this with their raised claims. To get their claim up to the 25% required to successfully appeal, they have to prove 95% of their new claim (basically £12m of their additional £13m)."

 

full article with it in is here:

http://www.pompeyonline.com/2010/07/details-of-the-meeting-with-david-lampitt/

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sidthesquid

sidthesquid

Posted
Posted
I'm with you Warsash, the latest ****** from Scudamore just enforces the opinion for me. We were misled my arse, you bent over backwards for Pompey and now you're trying to protect the "brand". Wayne Kerr.

 

The only agenda they ever had - including the Crouch shenanigans - was to help Poopey limp through to the end of the season and go away and stop being an embarrassment to their precious brand. They messed up and are going to have to take the blame and Scudamore is just getting his defence in before Dave Richards.

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted

If the judge has said to HMRC to think about it overnight, i will not be surprised if they withdraw before the court starts this morning.

All the talk about the HMRC playing a blinder seems to have gone out of the window.

Ashtead saint gave me a glimmer of hope that we may be reading it wrong but when i saw those words by the judge i felt the game was up.

A barrister told me some time ago, you know as soon as a judge stops looking at you that you have lost, seems to me he has looked away.

Interesting that Ho was viewing yesterday, he was waiting to come on and rub the salt into all those who told him they were goners.

Please let me be wrong, but Pompey will...........

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Saint in Paradise

Saint in Paradise

Posted
Posted

Well after catching up with this Court thing I have to say that I am Not confident that HMRC are

going to win. I feel that they seem to be scoring own goals which only help the cheats.

As for the opening statement from HMRC I think he should have said "This appeal is about precise figures,

as well as a principle" rather than what he actually said which was

"This appeal is not about precise figures,it's about principle".

 

Well IMHO anyway, no doubt I will be shown up to being stupid by some experts on here as usual :lol:

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Draino76

Draino76

Posted
Posted
Perhaps HMRC are reluctant to lose the £6 million from the CVA and think its only worth doing so if they can set a precedent with image rights so they are not fighting too hard on the other points.

 

I doubt that, since 6M is a small price to pay than let every other club in the country think they can 'get away with it'. I think its possible HMRC were testing the water with the principles yesterday, and today the discrepancies of the CVA will be blown to pieces. Or maybe thats being left for the appeal of the appeal? :)

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
morally we have been underhand as far as I am concerned but regarding image rights have we actually broken any written law or just exploited a loophole which needs to be tightened, my gut feeling is the latter.

 

An interesting way to say cheating.

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Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted
morally we have been underhand as far as I am concerned but regarding image rights have we actually broken any written law or just exploited a loophole which needs to be tightened, my gut feeling is the latter.

 

How many times must this be explained, this is not about image rights, that is a side issue. This is about AA agreeing to a debt figure, then changing that figure to ensure the CVA was passed. That my friend, is illegal, hence the appeal.

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JackFrost

JackFrost

Posted
Posted
I doubt that, since 6M is a small price to pay than let every other club in the country think they can 'get away with it'. I think its possible HMRC were testing the water with the principles yesterday, and today the discrepancies of the CVA will be blown to pieces. Or maybe thats being left for the appeal of the appeal? :)

 

That's what I'm starting to think. Intentionally lose this and focus on the appeal just to drag this all out further.

 

Although don't forget Ashford Saint appears to be the only person to have provided us with an accurate report from the court (and not the media) and suggested that it was looking good for HMRC

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted

 

Well IMHO anyway, no doubt I will be shown up to being stupid by some experts on here as usual :lol:

I still have confidence that there is a lot of knowledgeable posters on here, but they have in the main felt that Pompey/football clubs are treated the same as a normal business. it patently is not the case and if the judge did ask for info what would happen if they were liquidated, he feels that the community thing is an aspect and so may feel it is difficult to shut them down.

Add to that the HMRC's lawyers not seeming to be up to scratch and they are going to get away scot free IMO.

I assume they can come out of today with an agreed CVA, a new owner and then the ability to get players in. £5m extra investment and they could make the play-offs. That side they put out on saturday is the basis of s decent team IMO. Just watch HR flood them with loans.

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
How many times must this be explained, this is not about image rights, that is a side issue. This is about AA agreeing to a debt figure, then changing that figure to ensure the CVA was passed. That my friend, is illegal, hence the appeal.

 

But Ginge it seems the thrust of the HMRC's case did not seem to be about the CVA. They have had their say and there were no big bombshells (in the stuff I have read so far)Pompey now can come out after reading the HMRC's points and defuse them. At this moment in time Pompey are smelling of roses, but it does depend to what the judge was speaking about when he said to them 'to go away and think about it'

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
But Ginge it seems the thrust of the HMRC's case did not seem to be about the CVA. They have had their say and there were no big bombshells (in the stuff I have read so far)Pompey now can come out after reading the HMRC's points and defuse them. At this moment in time Pompey are smelling of roses, but it does depend to what the judge was speaking about when he said to them 'to go away and think about it'

 

I think you are reading too much into the non-legal experts opinion that Pompey are ahead just because there QC made a statement saying they should give up.

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Picard

Picard

Posted
Posted
I the part I have highlighted is correct the learned Judge is hinting that he is siding with PFC on the arguments so far. Not over yet but PFC look favourite to win the hearing. HMRC will not likely appeal a Judge who has never had a judgement overturned.

 

Don't forget, whatever happens the 'losing' side gets the chance to appeal.....

 

possibly, but they will have to cover it all in this hearing. you cannot appeal twice. (unless the judge grants leave to appeal to the higher court, but then that court will want to know why those grounds for appeal were not raised at the original appeal)

 

It seems rather unlikely there will be an appeal regarding the verdict of this case.:?:

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
I think you are reading too much into the non-legal experts opinion that Pompey are ahead just because there QC made a statement saying they should give up.

 

I hope you are right, Ashtead Saint gave me more confidence than the other feeds i saw.

It said on the tv last night that HMRC slammed Chanrai as not fit and proper but i have not seen any other bits about that

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tony13579

tony13579

Posted
Posted

tHE NEWS wROTE

Mark: Good morning and welcome to our live coverage of the High Court action against Pompey by Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs.

 

Mark: Chief reporter Chris Owen and reporter Dave Hurley are both in court to bring you the latest news. A technical glitch means they can't file directly to this service, but I'll be posting every update as soon as we receive them from Chris and Dave.

 

Mark: The second day of the case has just got underway and we are expecting the Revenue's barrister, Gregory Mitchell QC, to spend the first 90 minutes finishing putting his case to judge Mr Justice Mann.

 

 

Pompey's lawyer, Richard Sheldon QC, will then take about three hours to explain the club's position.

 

 

The judge said yesterday he hopes to deliver a verdict tomorrow.

 

Mark: Chief reporter Chris Owen has filed to say Pompey's administrator Andrew Andronikou has arrived and taken his place in front of the club's barrister.

 

 

Also in court is the lawyer representing Balram Chainrai who is expected to take control of the club again if HMRC's appeal fails.
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Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted

I know Tony just posted this, but FFS nick, are they admitting Chainrai was in charge previously...no, just his ****eyed opinion.

 

10:13

 

 

Mark:

Chief reporter Chris Owen has filed to say Pompey's administrator Andrew Andronikou has arrived and taken his place in front of the club's barrister.

Also in court is the lawyer representing Balram Chainrai who is expected to take control of the club again if HMRC's appeal fails.

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Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted (edited)

Again..for nick, this is my point! Given, that AA agreed they were,then changed his mind.

 

10:29

 

 

[Comment From Vaudeville Vaudeville : ]

The main issue is whether HMRC are entitled to vote on the £13 million of assessments they issued in May re PAYE and NI on “Image Rights” and “EBT’s” (employee benefit trusts).If HMRC win on this point, and it’s hard to see on the evidence presented to date how they can not, HMRC will win the appeal irrespective of what happens on the other points.

Edited by Gingeletiss
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hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted

On my last appearance in the High Court, the Judge decided all the merit issues on the written submissions (affidavits & expert reports), and didn't hear either Counsel on any of them. He only heard Counsel argue on liability for costs.

 

Don't try to predict the outcome based just on what the press report was said in Court. None of us know what's in the documents.

 

Having said that, my reflected view is that HMRC are struggling to convince the Judge that any CVA which prioritises some creditors in one class above others in the same class, through an "FCR-type" arrangement is automatically unfairly prejudicial. Doesn't necessarily mean that their appeal is in jeopardy, though.

 

If, as was reported yesterday, the Judge said he would deliver his judgement on Thursday, then it seems to me that he has already made his mind up, based on the written submissions, and is looking for one or other Counsel to persuade him that he's wrong.

 

I'm going to miss the rest of this bit of fun. Been called away at short notice to a place where internet is a luxury, and won't get back before Friday night. Don't let them get away with anything while I'm away, Nick, will you?

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tony13579

tony13579

Posted
Posted

The news wrote:

mark: The judge, mr justice mann, has asked for clarification about the cash that will come to pompey from the premier league.

 

 

These amounts are known as 'parachute payments' and are intended to soften the financial landing for a club relegated from the premiership.

 

 

Mr sheldon told the judge the club would receive a total of £48m over the next four seasons.

 

 

These would comprise £17m in 2010/11; £15m in 2011/12, and two £8m payments in the following two seasons.

 

 

The judge said that with £22.5m owed to football creditors this would leave £25.5m.

 

 

The parties are now examining how this would be spent.

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