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Why are we 15th and Norwich top?

Avenue Saint

By Avenue Saint,
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Avenue Saint

Avenue Saint

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Posted

"We don't play defensive football," said Lambert. "We defend our goal and do all the right things, but we know that we've got to go and try and win a game - and the best way to try and win a game is to get onto the front foot. And that's what we will try and do.

 

 

That was Paul Lambert in some pre match interview.

 

Got me thinking, what is the difference between us and them cos I know when u look at the teamsheets, there aint a lot of difference in quality?

 

We sit 15th in league and sure they have lost some too but now sit pretty at top of the league!

 

Is this what we've been missing with all this 1 at top n pack midfield business. 442 and play to win?

 

i think this has won the argument for me.

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Avenue Saint

Avenue Saint

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We had a sh*t start and minus 10 points. Norwich didn't.

 

 

yeah, true but what about now? They are consistent and we aint. Pardew is the man, anyone doubting this, needs to be shot but we need to go for it a bit more is what im thinking.

 

Rest of season crucial for risk of stating obvious.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted (edited)
Won 3 of their first 10 games. Not sh*t. Not league winning but not sh*t.

 

Saints won 1 of their first 10 games. Sh*t.

 

 

Norwich won those three games with no manager or a brand new manager, ie with much less pre season (the most precious commodity in world football*) than we had.

Edited by CB Fry
*only because it is the only thing we don't have on our side this season. Next season it will be some other excuse.
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NickG

NickG

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Norwich did have a **** start - they lost heavily (1st game) and had a very poor opening few games + sacked a manager!

 

Norwich, first 10 games -13 points

 

Saint, first 10 games - 9

 

Norwich then won 6 out of next 7 games.

 

We won 4 out of next 5.

 

If we had half decent first few games, didn't have -10, the team Pardew has put together would not be far off automatic places.

 

-10 and 7 games without win is a bit of a handicap!

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INFLUENCED.COM

INFLUENCED.COM

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Why are Leeds, Colchester, Charlton, Swindon, Millwall, MK, Huddersfield and many more above us ? because they have won more games and thus have more points than us but only One above us have secured a place at Wembley so for that reason still think we are special, a trophy this year, promotion next would suggest the original 5 year plan is on track, however, the 5 turnt into 3 maybe beyond AP.

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NickG

NickG

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Posted
Why are Leeds, Colchester, Charlton, Swindon, Millwall, MK, Huddersfield and many more above us ? because they have won more games and thus have more points than us but only One above us have secured a place at Wembley so for that reason still think we are special, a trophy this year, promotion next would suggest the original 5 year plan is on track, however, the 5 turnt into 3 maybe beyond AP.

 

only 2 more;)

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saint1977

saint1977

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Posted

The deduction and lack of pre-season is a fair point and Pardew was quite rushed in having to get his targets in August. That said, Norwich did have a lot of disruption and were really poor too early season. The difference with Norwich is the attacking threat - we are too reliant on Lambert and need to keep playing Barnard until he scores, however ugly a goal. Lallana has scored a few to be fair but they have Martin, Holt, Hoolahan and even Doherty has regularly chipped in from set pieces. Morgan hasn't looked like scoring bar Oldham and Hammond has only got a couple and Waigo's goals have mainly been in the cups although I'm very grateful for them. Connolly made a big difference when fit but I think we won't see him much now.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

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Lambert is doing a fantastic job with some average players.

 

Pardew is doing an averge job with some very good L1/CCC players.

 

Crap!

 

What do you base that on then? what makes Norwhich players more average than ours? Their league postion doesn't lie its not their manager out their scoring the goals, defending etc it's the Norwhich players.

 

I love the way some saints fans think we have a team of Glacticos just becuase we spent a couple of million. Lambert is the only player we can say is the best in league one becuase he is the leagues highest scorer. With the rest of the team it's just your opinion

 

For example some norwhich players

 

Defender Gary Doherty has scored five goals this season and used to play for the spuds is he better than Jhadi?

 

Midfielder Wes Hoolahan is a Irish international scored 13 goals and has 15 asssits is he better than Lallanna?

 

Midifielder Stephen Hughes is a Scottish iternational has played for Rangers won the Scottish preimership and played in the championship he hasn't scored this year so does that make him better than Morgan?

 

Right back Russell Martian captained Peterbrough to automatic promtion last season is he better than John Ostsemboor? well pretty likely really as he replaced him.

 

Honestly people just form opinions on other teams with no knowledge of the other team at all. Yes we have spent money but that doesn't mean our players are better it just means we spent more money on them. Until all our new players are playing in a settled team on a regular basis we wont know how good they are or aren't. It's not like saints have a history of buying crap players for to much money is it ?

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broncoboy

broncoboy

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I am really grateful the club was saved and that we have bought in some good players.

AP is a good manager and hopefully knows what he is doing but despite all of that I would really like us to be pushing for the playoffs.

 

Draws against average teams in this league are not really good enough.

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Crab Lungs

Crab Lungs

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Posted

I think the reason why we haven't been as successful is of course, the minus 10 but also mentality towards the point deduction.

 

Put that together with an already ingrained losing culture and I can kind of understand why we didn't hit the ground running.

 

Doesn't excuse a few drab draws away from home though :(

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dune

dune

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Norwich brouht in a lot of players during the summer, we brought in a lot of players soon after the summer. We should be mirroring them, but we haven't performed as well as them. Nicola Cortese is right to be concerned about our recent drop in form.

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

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Posted

Because Norwich score a lot of goals and we don't get anywhere near as many. It's football, the reason one side is a lot "better" than another is all about the ability to put the ball into the back of the net at virtually every chance you get. We saw that last week, if we could do what is primordial in football, stick the ball in the onion net, we would have won about 4-1, we didn't and we lost 4-1

 

A player can be absolutely f**k awful for 88 minutes out of 90, if he does what he's paid to do for the other 2 minutes you win 2-0.We have far too many players who miss easy chances, it cost us in 2005, last year and will probably cost us our play-off place this year.We have missed a hatful of sitters of late,goals that would have gained us 6 to 8 points. It's something we don't do well and I presume it's because we don't have a coach talented enough to

work on the finishing of our "strikers".

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Saint Fan CaM

Saint Fan CaM

Posted
Posted (edited)

It's been said before, but I'll repeat for Glasgows sake...

 

a. -10pts is a big ask to overcome.

b. Poor start to season caused by almost non-existant pre-season and some poor players left over from last seasons shambles.

c. It takes time to get a squad performing consistently well, especially when you're adding new players in to try to improve the team.

 

In actual fact, AP has managed to get the team playing really well. The morale in the camp is excellent. The fans are returning. Those that attend the matches are happy because they see this. Those that don't are less happy because they don't see or feel the atmosphere at SMS now. Don't get me wrong, this is not to say you're a worse fan for not going to matches (before Alpine shouts at me), but fact is I don't think you can get a sense of how much happier the whole club is now if you don't go regularly to SMS.

 

For me, frankly I would rather we were plying our trade with this team in L1 than the team we had last year with Lowe and the Dutch twerps in the CCC. As such, promotion is less critical to me as a fan....I really like AP, his attitude and all he brings to the club. I am prepared to be patient and wait for even better times.

Edited by Saint Fan CaM
Typo thingy...
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Capel Saint

Capel Saint

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Posted
It's been said before, but I'll repeat for Glasgows sake...

 

a. -10pts is a big ask to overcome.

b. Poor start to season caused by almost non-existant pre-season and some poor players left over from last seasons shambles.

c. It takes time to get a squad performing consistently well, especially when you're adding new players in to try to improve the team.

 

In actual fact, AP has managed to get the team playing really well. The morale in the camp is excellent. The fans are returning. Those that attend the matches are happy because they see this. Those that don't are less happy because they don't see or feel the atmosphere at SMS now. Don't get me wrong, this is not to say you're a worse fan for not going to matches (before Alpine shouts at me), but fact is I don't think you can get a sense of how much happier the whole club is now if you don't go regularly to SMS.

 

For me, frankly I would rather we were plying our trade with this team in L1 than the team we had last year with Lowe and the Dutch twerps in the CCC. As such, promotion is less critical to me as a fan....I really like AP, his attitude and all he brings to the club. I am prepared to be patient and wait for even better times.

 

Top post and sums up my feelings too. Well done!

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Saint

Saint

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Posted

I'm willing to be patient under AP. Honestly think he's a top bloke who's done brilliantly in such a short space of time. Big budget players (for this league) or not, teams need time to gel. And as Saint Fan CaM said, the overall feeling at SMS on match day is so positive, and this is less than a year since it couldn't get any worse.

 

Next season will be crucial though.

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted (edited)
.+1

 

My only concern is that we do not get enough goals from Hammond and Morgan. Perhaps that's what AP wants Puncheon to produce on a regular basis?

 

 

I don't think many of you actually understand the role of the central midfield players. They are there to win the ball and distribute it. Their role does not include charging into the opposition's box and scoring shedloads of goals, they are the dustbin men of football, you need them but it's no good counting on them to cook up cordon bleu meals. That's down to Lallana and whoever the other attacking midfielder is.The rub lies in the fact that we have no effective second striker to score on a regular basis and that Antonio who is often used in League games hasn't ,as yet, scored a league goal. Lambert gets his share (a few from free kicks and penalties) Lallana has 10 on his counter but we don't have that second free scoring striker we need. Connolly was the man but as he hasn't played for

weeks now he's just got 4 league goals.We need Puncheon to get goals, we need Antonio or Waigo to get goals because Lambert is doubled teamed all of the time.

Edited by Window Cleaner
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SNSUN

SNSUN

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Posted

A more settled team helped them IMO. Other than one or two signings to strengthen positions, they've kept the same team from the summer, and used the same players in a majority of games.

 

We have been signing players almost constantly since August, utilising the emergency loan window as well as the January transfer window. Due to cup competitions and cup tied players we haven't been able to play a settled team, and I think that is one of the major causes of our league form.

 

I have enjoyed our cup runs this season, but I do think that without the distraction of all three of them, we would be much better placed in the League. Now we're out of the major two, and in the final of the JPT, I'd like to see our League form improve with a more solidified team sheet.

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

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Posted
A more settled team helped them IMO. Other than one or two signings to strengthen positions, they've kept the same team from the summer, and used the same players in a majority of games.

 

We have been signing players almost constantly since August, utilising the emergency loan window as well as the January transfer window. Due to cup competitions and cup tied players we haven't been able to play a settled team, and I think that is one of the major causes of our league form.

 

I have enjoyed our cup runs this season, but I do think that without the distraction of all three of them, we would be much better placed in the League. Now we're out of the major two, and in the final of the JPT, I'd like to see our League form improve with a more solidified team sheet.

 

You only have to look at the ludicrous number of games played by some of our players to understand that the cups were a giant distraction.40 games for Lambert, 35/36 for lads who are just out of youth team age group, it's far too much.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

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Posted
Because Norwich score a lot of goals and we don't get anywhere near as many. It's football, the reason one side is a lot "better" than another is all about the ability to put the ball into the back of the net at virtually every chance you get. We saw that last week, if we could do what is primordial in football, stick the ball in the onion net, we would have won about 4-1, we didn't and we lost 4-1

 

A player can be absolutely f**k awful for 88 minutes out of 90, if he does what he's paid to do for the other 2 minutes you win 2-0.We have far too many players who miss easy chances, it cost us in 2005, last year and will probably cost us our play-off place this year.We have missed a hatful of sitters of late,goals that would have gained us 6 to 8 points. It's something we don't do well and I presume it's because we don't have a coach talented enough to

work on the finishing of our "strikers".

 

Don't we have the top scorer in the league? We have only failed to score in three matches this season in all competitions which hardly suggests we are struggling to score.

 

To be honest you only have to score once each game if you don't concede, which is more of a problem this year for us rather than scoring.

It's not our strikers that are the problem its our defence who have only kept eight clean sheets all season. Hopefully we can get a settled back four for the rest of the season to up our clean sheets.

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Professor

Professor

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Posted

This does re-open the 4-4-2 versus 4-5-1 debate. Pardew does seem to like 4-5-1 despite some of our pre-christmas wins coming when he started 4-5-1 and was forced into a change during the game, usually by bringing Connolly on. He has the players now to do it with Barnard or Waigo until Connolly is fit. The packed midfield theory leaves a side defending too much because they aren't enough of a threat through the centre up-front. It also means that much of the attack is down one wing or the other and is easier for the defenders to handle.

If Pardew goes 4-5-1 at Norwich expect us to lose. If he goes 4-4-2 we have the players to match them and if he plays Lambert and Barnard up front we should be able to knock a couple of goals in. For people who have been whining about Barnard, he's a very sharp striker and he will get goals if he's given full games to do it, otherwise, why on earth buy him and not use him properly.

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modern matron

modern matron

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Posted
Norwich did have a **** start - they lost heavily (1st game) and had a very poor opening few games + sacked a manager!

 

Saints had no pre season, no signings and no results for 10 games. Since then things have improved. You wont accept that whatever anyone says. I know that cup games dont count ( although I bet you go to Wembley and wont moan in front of real fans). I suggest you should follow Norwich and believe that you have proved your own dumb argument.......

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modern matron

modern matron

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Posted
Norwich did have a **** start - they lost heavily (1st game) and had a very poor opening few games + sacked a manager!

 

Look Norwich signed 12 player before the end of July so I think they were likely to be a VERY strong side don't you? We've played catch up all season since 10 games in and done well. Why won't you acknowledge that? I think you have had a personal dislike of AP since appointment haven't you? Please explain why you seem to want to see the worse ineverything?

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Glasgow_Saint

Glasgow_Saint

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Posted
Saints had no pre season, no signings and no results for 10 games. Since then things have improved. You wont accept that whatever anyone says. I know that cup games dont count ( although I bet you go to Wembley and wont moan in front of real fans). I suggest you should follow Norwich and believe that you have proved your own dumb argument.......

 

Are you kidding? I will moan, groan, laugh, cough, joke, smile or do a merry dance in front of any Saints fan (real or not) I post my opinion on here (thats what the forum is for) if someone doesn't like it, tough poo poo, I couldn't give 2 hoops.

 

Imo AP is under-performing (NC agrees) and until he sorts things out I will continue to moan.

 

Use the ignore function if you dont like it

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Professor

Professor

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Posted
Saints had no pre season, no signings and no results for 10 games. Since then things have improved. You wont accept that whatever anyone says. I know that cup games dont count ( although I bet you go to Wembley and wont moan in front of real fans). I suggest you should follow Norwich and believe that you have proved your own dumb argument.......

 

The lack of a win in the first 7 games (not 10) was a factor but the reason we are not pushing on now is down to the results since mid-December - 2 wins, 3 draws and 2 defeats in 7 games, making 9 points out of a possible 21. That is lower than mid-table form which might explain why Cortese said what he did, when he did.

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Glasgow_Saint

Glasgow_Saint

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Posted
Look Norwich signed 12 player before the end of July so I think they were likely to be a VERY strong side don't you? We've played catch up all season since 10 games in and done well. Why won't you acknowledge that? I think you have had a personal dislike of AP since appointment haven't you? Please explain why you seem to want to see the worse ineverything?

 

Listen mate, your idea of doing well is very different than mine - that is clear.

 

We have been playing catch up - this is true, but we started 10 behind and are now 22 behind.....if thats "doing well" id not want to see him/us doing bad.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

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Posted
Listen mate, your idea of doing well is very different than mine - that is clear.

 

We have been playing catch up - this is true, but we started 10 behind and are now 22 behind.....if thats "doing well" id not want to see him/us doing bad.

 

We also have three games in hand over Norwhich. If we won those three games and added the ten back on we would be second in the table a point ahead of Leeds and three points behind Norwhich:shock:

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Glasgow_Saint

Glasgow_Saint

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Posted (edited)
We also have three games in hand over Norwhich. If we won those three games and added the ten back on we would be second in the table a point ahead of Leeds and three points behind Norwhich:shock:

 

we have won 11 league games total (from 28 ) so ratio is approx. 1:3

 

we would therefore (more likely) catch up just 3 points (based on league form)

Edited by Glasgow_Saint
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