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Scottish Independence


SuperMikey
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Heard Alex Salmond on the radio earlier talking about the referendum that's going to take place soon on the independence of the Scottish nation.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8535946.stm

 

I can only see this going one way, most of the Scottish nation are sane enough to see that independence would be a drastic step backwards and a stupid thing to do just to gain a bit of face. Mind you, suppose this is what happens when you elect the SNP to parliament, famously loopy.

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C. £10billion pa taken from Scotland > England in oil

C. £10billion pa given from England > Scotland in social subsidies.

 

If they want to leave it's fine by me, but when the oil runs out they will need to dust off their begging bowls and practice fluttering their eyelashes in Brussels.

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united we stand, divided we fall ...although after the 'anyone but england' shirt popularity for this summers world cup up there, i'm of the opion eff em (like previously said, what do they contribute apart from oil?) surely they are a drain on resources other than that, nhs etc

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I am sure most normal Scots would not want to break from the Union.

 

However, like most places, apathy rules and most normal people don't vote, whereas the fanatics always do, thus allowing the loony minority to rule the majority.

 

Having said that, I can never understand why most Sweatys will want anyone but England to win, yet most English prefer to see a UK team win.

 

So they can fook off!

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united we stand, divided we fall ...although after the 'anyone but england' shirt popularity for this summers world cup up there, i'm of the opion eff em (like previously said, what do they contribute apart from oil?) surely they are a drain on resources other than that, nhs etc

 

Jesus, I just said that too!!

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Passionate.

 

You'll never survive without us. Who 'you' and 'us' are is another matter.

 

I think we should abandon nationhood and have a Federated States of the World. That would solve all wars between countries and the key question of the Falklands, which worries everybody so much. Further, we wouldn't need to squabble over oil either. My way seems much better than all others.

 

Peas, yeah?

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  • 3 years later...

 

that joke article ought nonetheless to remind "the Scots" that there is real doubt who 'the Scots" are. The Western Ises, the Orkneys ,Shetland, etc were never really part of a unified Scotland. In fact I'm not sure there ever was a unified Scoland..... even the famous battles such as Bannockburn were nearly as much Scot v Scot as Scot v English.

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that joke article ought nonetheless to remind "the Scots" that there is real doubt who 'the Scots" are. The Western Ises, the Orkneys ,Shetland, etc were never really part of a unified Scotland. In fact I'm not sure there ever was a unified Scoland..... even the famous battles such as Bannockburn were nearly as much Scot v Scot as Scot v English.

 

I think the whole referendum is the wrong way round anyway - when Queen Elizabeth 1 died, King James of Scotland took the throne of England, so the Scots took control of England, not the other way round.

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Scotland has the right to ask the question and let them decide, Salmond knows though deep down independence will only happen if England wants it ie we vote to leave the Union, that wont happen and neither will Scottish independence, the issue of subsidy towards the Scots is as arrogant as it is misplaced as most of England is subsidised by London and the banking industry, since the destruction of our own industry we gamble our Nation on the stockmarket.

What are Southampton's industries? The docks? Bringing in manufactured goods from afar and far less export, this is one of the reasons our £ is undervalued by 25p to the Euro so to help our weak export market in a small way.

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If Scotland is indeed to abandon the Union then life will continue on both sides of the new border much as it does today I suppose. That fate would however be a terrible shame because Great Britain together has achieved (and sacrificed) so much over the last 300 years that in my view a divorce of this magnitude should only be contemplated on the grounds of some overwhelming justification for this measure being evident. The practical/administrative/economic problems of splitting apart two long united nations are legion and should not be underestimated.

 

The Scots are a proud people - and they have much to be proud about - but the hard truth is that in this day and age a independent Scotland would be a (very) small nation of little real significance in a world that is increasing dominated by huge Asian powers. I suspect the existing level of devolution within the UK already allows Scotland all the independence it either needs, or can handle.

 

So other than to address some vague residual resentment of the English among some Scots, or as a sop towards Scottish envy of English economic dominance within the British Isles (which will continue anyway) then I just can't see much of a rational case for it. Breaking up the Union just reduces all the peoples of these isles for no obvious gain.

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If Scotland is indeed to abandon the Union then life will continue on both sides of the new border much as it does today I suppose. That fate would however be a terrible shame because Great Britain together has achieved (and sacrificed) so much over the last 300 years that in my view a divorce of this magnitude should only be contemplated on the grounds of some overwhelming justification for this measure being evident. The practical/administrative/economic problems of splitting apart two long united nations are legion and should not be underestimated.

 

The Scots are a proud people - and they have much to be proud about - but the hard truth is that in this day and age a independent Scotland would be a (very) small nation of little real significance in a world that is increasing dominated by huge Asian powers. I suspect the existing level of devolution within the UK already allows Scotland all the independence it either needs, or can handle.

 

So other than to address some vague residual resentment of the English among some Scots, or as a sop towards Scottish envy of English economic dominance within the British Isles (which will continue anyway) then I just can't see much of a rational case for it. Breaking up the Union just reduces all the peoples of these isles for no obvious gain.

 

I agree in the main but I do hate the "proud" bit concerning Nations, that could be misplaced as chippy, hateful and bitter or reasoned, responsible and open?

Most Countries are proud but what worries me is the there is an overwhelming "braveheart" mentality in Scottish politics which is as crass and tacky as it is stupid.

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I wish salmond would speak about his fiscal policy instead of questioning trumps potential legal challenge about gigantic wind turbines . Will Scotland be responsible for RBS debts or will chubby chops expect Westminster to continue to pick up the tab

 

The European Union is the question he cant answer.

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the hard truth is that in this day and age a independent Scotland would be a (very) small nation of little real significance in a world that is increasing dominated by huge Asian powers. I suspect the existing level of devolution within the UK already allows Scotland all the independence it either needs, or can handle.

 

I'm not sure that's true. Its the medium sized countries with few natural resources that have the biggest problem. You can support a few million people with a couple of industries like Scotch whisky, a bit of oil and gas and some wind / hydro power. Britain got successful on intellectual capital and invention - much easier to do when you are one of the few countries in the world with universities and 99% literacy. Much more difficult to feed and clothe 60 million people when everyone else has caught up.

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I'm not sure that's true. Its the medium sized countries with few natural resources that have the biggest problem. You can support a few million people with a couple of industries like Scotch whisky, a bit of oil and gas and some wind / hydro power. Britain got successful on intellectual capital and invention - much easier to do when you are one of the few countries in the world with universities and 99% literacy. Much more difficult to feed and clothe 60 million people when everyone else has caught up.
To an extent but where is the whisky industry? Its not in Glasgow or Edinburgh, Scotland as a Nation on its own would have less grunt than Portugal, Greece and Ireland and what happened to them?

What about defence, banking, the monarchy, the nhs, the shipyards, transport? A lot of questions.

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I was born, bred and educated in Scotland although I haven't lived there for more than 40 years !

Unlike many recent immigrants I do not have a vote on the country's destiny (fair enough, you may say!).

I am ashamed and embarrassed that this referendum is even happening as I perceive it to be a personal crusade by one man seeking to leave his mark in history !

I have met Alex Salmond (well, was in his company whilst he held court!) and found him to be both arrogant and obnoxious !

In the (hopefully unlikely) event that he wins and things go 'tits up', he will be out on his ear very quickly and the country will be left to pick up the pieces !

FFS I might even have to start supporting England :)

What is the world coming to, eh ??

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All we hear up here is the typical Snp rethoric abou how good Scotland would be if it were to become Independant . But never any substance . The Snp are targeting g schools to indoctrinate kids who will be allowed to vote as salmond has passed a one if bill to allow 16 years to vote . The fact that some exiled scots may be allowed to vote but many immigrants even if they have gone back to eastern bloc countries will be able to . Is true . I guess I will be allowed to vote as I'm on the electoral register . There has been rumours although unsubstantiated that the English welsh and Irish may not be allowed to vote .i have heard some Snp bods Mentioning this . I guess it's because they realise that if we vote they will not get the yes vote . Mind you Shetland have stated they should be allowed to have self rule and in Orkney they are exploring that concept

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Still think this needs to be seen as Cameron's big electoral gamble rather than the sideshow of a nation's independence. I fully expect Scotland to stay in the Union, and there to be much trumpeting about how the Conservatives kept the Union together.

 

I suspect that the campaigns will be full of lies, fear and misinformation. The ASA has no power over claims made during a referendum campaign.

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The Snp campaign is already full of lies pap . Look at the matter of the question they were going to ask . That had to be changed . The referendum is 17 months away . Where's the fiscal policy . What about Europe what about the defence policy . You cannot discus them over a couple of months let alone introduce new system s Scottish armed services etc . Salmond is planning havi g an armed forces similar to Denmark by all accounts . Faslane is not going to be a nuclear submarine base . He has plans for it to be cleaned up and the base will then become the HQ of the new Scottish forces .

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All we hear up here is the typical Snp rethoric abou how good Scotland would be if it were to become Independant . But never any substance . The Snp are targeting g schools to indoctrinate kids who will be allowed to vote as salmond has passed a one if bill to allow 16 years to vote . The fact that some exiled scots may be allowed to vote but many immigrants even if they have gone back to eastern bloc countries will be able to . Is true . I guess I will be allowed to vote as I'm on the electoral register . There has been rumours although unsubstantiated that the English welsh and Irish may not be allowed to vote .i have heard some Snp bods Mentioning this . I guess it's because they realise that if we vote they will not get the yes vote . Mind you Shetland have stated they should be allowed to have self rule and in Orkney they are exploring that concept

 

As I said , what Scotland? Much of the present-day romantic notion of Scotland was effectively invented in Queen Victoria's day, when it was fashionable.

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http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/opinion/comment/brian-wilson-shetland-has-the-right-to-go-it-alone-1-2739336#.UPaCKGcZAns.twitter

 

View on the Hebrides, Shetland and Orkney Isles position in relation to Scottish independence.

 

Much of the oil is actually in waters that would belong to an independent Shetland, not the rest of Scotland.... and they are as close to Norway as they are to mainland Scotland!

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can we add a clause that if things go belly up we don't contribute to any EU bail out fund?

 

Where will the nuclear subs be stationed seeing as the SNP want rid of the nuclear deterrent?

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