what REALLY cost us promotion ..?

[david in sweden]

was it the -10 points ..or the first ten games ? (.or a combination of the two ...?)

 

Either way it's wrong that AP should be blamed for either.

The team he put together and added to in January produced results

good enough to put us well in the promotion hunt...

 

I sincerely hope that AP stays, as yet ANOTHER revamp of the coaching staff would be more than most fans could put up with ..let alone the the players.

 

I don't think NC is that shortsighted to sack AP.

He talked about a FIVE YEAR PLAN, that doesn't mean he 'll be hiring / firing a new manager every season - does it ? I hope not.

[S41NTS]

It was clearly a combination of the two, along with one or two games lost or drawn that really should have been won later on in the season.

 

NC would be mad to get rid of AP withouth having some kind of super manager lined up to replace him and I'm pretty sure he wont, as fans we probably do need to tread carefully though as NC seems to have a very good relationship with ML and any anti NC protesting could be a catalyst to our renewed downfall.

 

Taking everything into account the club has spent a relatively huge sum of money and better results should be expected as a result but all in all I cant see how this season can be viewed as a failure. I certainly wasnt expecting to be in this position early on in the season.

[Alanh]

You could say that the -10 cost us the chance of getting to the play-offs and poor start caused by the work needed to construct a competitive squad cost us the chance of automatic promotion.

 

Having said that if we had neither the poor squad or the -10 then we would probably still have been in the CCC with the previous regime in charge. After the season we have just had I'll take where we are going to finish and will look forward to next season and hopefully a championship to celebrate.

[saint_stevo]

getting less points than the top 6

[Arizona]

It was a multitude (Is that a word? If it isn't it should be, it's quite a good one) of factors, none of which is solely responsible. It's been done to death but, in roughly chronological order:

 

- Lowe putting us into admin a few days too late, which dumped the -10 on this season.

- The whole Pinnacle/MLT/Fialka tyre kicking lark wasting time.

- The late takeover and appointment of Pardew resulting in no preseason.

- The resulting poor start to the season

- Building a new team and "gelling"

- Failing to win away to some of the crap teams with s**t pitches.

- An unusually strong League 1 with a very high points tally needed for a playoff spot.

 

Nothing REALLY cost us promotion, it's a lot of factors combined.

[Frank's cousin]

To be honest, probably more the psychological barrier of getting past zero points - from that time on we have averaged 2 points a game... which would have won us the championship... the odd defeat and unexpected draw since then are par for the course and no one would be blinking an eyelid about such results had we managed to win 3-4 games more in those first 12-14 games....

[Marsdinho]

To be honest' date=' probably more the psychological barrier of getting past zero points - from that time on we have averaged 2 points a game... which would have won us the championship... the odd defeat and unexpected draw since then are par for the course and no one would be blinking an eyelid about such results had we managed to win 3-4 games more in those first 12-14 games....[/quote']

 

Just about to post pretty much the same thing....

 

That -10 was like a dark cloud hanging over us. As soon as they were chipped away, we looked a different team.

[Window Cleaner]

What lost us promotion via the play-offs?

 

 

Whatever Norwich have done since the 10th match that we haven't.

 

They've taken 84 points from 35 matches, if we had done that we'd be in there, probably in second place.

 

I have no idea what it is, work it out for yourselves.

[Legod Third Coming]

It certainly isn't losing at Tranmere or Gillingham - Leeds managed to do that, as did Norwich. It isn't drawing at Wycombe, as Millwall went there and lost. It isn't drawing at Exeter, as Swindon managed that...

 

Surely it is this table after ten games:

 

http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D2/tosep.html

 

Why? You tell me, but do you think no pre-season and the mill-stone of minus ten could have been a contributory factor?

 

EDIT: Take ten points off the total and we were on -1 - 27 points behind Leeds!

Edited 4 May, 2010 by Legod Third Coming
In case people can't work out we did not have nine points...

[Scummer]

It certainly isn't losing at Tranmere or Gillingham - Leeds managed to do that, as did Norwich. It isn't drawing at Wycombe, as Millwall went there and lost. It isn't drawing at Exeter, as Swindon managed that...

 

Surely it is this table after ten games:

 

http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D2/tosep.html

 

Why? You tell me, but do you think no pre-season and the mill-stone of minus ten could have been a contributory factor?

 

It's worse than that, we were still on -1 and bottom of the league at that point.

[alpine_saint]

was it the -10 points ..or the first ten games ? (.or a combination of the two ...?)

 

Either way it's wrong that AP should be blamed for either.

The team he put together and added to in January produced results

good enough to put us well in the promotion hunt...

 

I sincerely hope that AP stays, as yet ANOTHER revamp of the coaching staff would be more than most fans could put up with ..let alone the the players.

 

I don't think NC is that shortsighted to sack AP.

He talked about a FIVE YEAR PLAN, that doesn't mean he 'll be hiring / firing a new manager every season - does it ? I hope not.

 

And this requires another thread and saturation coverage on this site, does it ?

[John B]

was it the -10 points ..or the first ten games ? (.or a combination of the two ...?)

 

Either way it's wrong that AP should be blamed for either.

The team he put together and added to in January produced results

good enough to put us well in the promotion hunt...

 

I sincerely hope that AP stays, as yet ANOTHER revamp of the coaching staff would be more than most fans could put up with ..let alone the the players.

 

I don't think NC is that shortsighted to sack AP.

He talked about a FIVE YEAR PLAN, that doesn't mean he 'll be hiring / firing a new manager every season - does it ? I hope not.

 

The reason we did not get promotion was that the team was not consistent and did not get enough points

[The9]

was it the -10 points ..or the first ten games ? (.or a combination of the two ...?).

 

Yes.

[The9]

The reason we did not get promotion was that the team was not consistent and did not get enough points

 

It was very consistent from October onwards, won loads, usually comfortably drew a few and lost one or two here and there. Without -10 and without giving some teams a 24 point head start in August/September that's promotion form.

[Legod Third Coming]

It's worse than that, we were still on -1 and bottom of the league at that point.

 

Yes, you do need to take the ten points off... should have made that clear!!

[John B]

It was very consistent from October onwards, won loads, usually comfortably drew a few and lost one or two here and there. Without -10 and without giving some teams a 24 point head start in August/September that's promotion form.

 

 

 

I dont think the form was bad but the other teams were doing well and we just seemed to falter when the chips were down with results at Exeter Wycombe Tranmere etc

 

What was our best winning sequence?

[Window Cleaner]

I dont think the form was bad but the other teams were doing well and we just seemed to falter when the chips were down with results at Exeter Wycombe Tranmere etc

 

What was our best winning sequence?

 

 

October and November I think up to the away game at Leeds, 26 points from

11 games.If we had carried on in that vein we would now be on 81 points having obtained 82 from 35. Probably just because we played poor sides in the main but the side hasn't got any better results since.

Since then we have obtained 45 points from 24 games

[Bucks Saint]

was it the -10 points ..or the first ten games ? (.or a combination of the two ...?)

 

Either way it's wrong that AP should be blamed for either.

The team he put together and added to in January produced results

good enough to put us well in the promotion hunt...

 

I sincerely hope that AP stays, as yet ANOTHER revamp of the coaching staff would be more than most fans could put up with ..let alone the the players.

 

I don't think NC is that shortsighted to sack AP.

He talked about a FIVE YEAR PLAN, that doesn't mean he 'll be hiring / firing a new manager every season - does it ? I hope not.

 

Probably. why do you ask? whatever happens next season, things will be different.

 

this thread = been done / being done elsewhere to death

Edited 4 May, 2010 by Bucks Saint
error

[Steeleye Saint]

What lost us promotion via the play-offs?

 

 

Whatever Norwich have done since the 10th match that we haven't.

 

They've taken 84 points from 35 matches, if we had done that we'd be in there, probably in second place.

 

I have no idea what it is, work it out for yourselves.

 

Thanks for the insight WC.

[1976_Child]

we didn't kick the football into the net enough times during a handful of games.

[lambertsrightleg]

i'll tell you what cost us promotion. Micky ****ing Fialka and the pinnacle fiasco. End of

[saint_stevo]

Our failure to hold onto leads away from home/break down 'lesser' teams

[trousers]

What lost us promotion via the play-offs?

 

 

Whatever Norwich have done since the 10th match that we haven't.

 

They've taken 84 points from 35 matches, if we had done that we'd be in there, probably in second place.

 

 

Sums it up for me

[Turkish]

getting less points than the top 6

 

At last some common sense. :goodman:

[dune]

Rupert Lowe.

[Clifford Nelson]

It was a multitude (Is that a word? If it isn't it should be, it's quite a good one) of factors, none of which is solely responsible. It's been done to death but, in roughly chronological order:

 

- Lowe putting us into admin a few days too late, which dumped the -10 on this season.

- The whole Pinnacle/MLT/Fialka tyre kicking lark wasting time.

- The late takeover and appointment of Pardew resulting in no preseason.

- The resulting poor start to the season

- Building a new team and "gelling"

- Failing to win away to some of the crap teams with s**t pitches.

- An unusually strong League 1 with a very high points tally needed for a playoff spot.

 

Nothing REALLY cost us promotion, it's a lot of factors combined.

 

You're not wrong, but the only point we can do anything about is our poor record against the bottom teams. I wish I had the confidence to believe that AP know what to do about it.

[Legod Third Coming]

You're not wrong, but the only point we can do anything about is our poor record against the bottom teams. I wish I had the confidence to believe that AP know what to do about it.

 

Our record against the bottom teams is no different to Norwich's, Leeds or Millwalls. Where do people get this nonsense...

 

We do not fail to get promoted because we lost to Tranmere - since they beat Norwich by a goal more than us and then beat Millwall 2-0.

 

Why don't people get this.

 

We were on our knees.

We nearly lost our club.

We had no preseason.

We started the season with players not fit to lace the boots of Paul Wotton.

We went ten games winning one.

We bought in new players.

We then built a squad - which is STILL lacking.

We went on a promotion form run.

It wasn't enough.

In the interim we won the club's first silverware for 34 years.

 

We have won more games in a season than for about 25 years.

 

This is what you call in football a FOUNDATION.

 

But no let's dig the whole ferking lot up and rebuild somewhere else with someone who may or may not achieve at least as good results....

 

In a research paper by a Coventry Professor, John Beech, he identified that in 14 cases of a club with a points deduction of 10 points or more only 1 missed out on promotion as a result (Leeds), 4 finished mid-table and would have finished mid-table and 8 were relegated, abeit 1 would have been relegated without the deduction (although how he qualified this given that it does not take account of the emotional impact is not stated).

 

Bloody Hell. That shows the mountain we have climbed this season. We did not quite hit the summit. Without a deduction we could still finish second.

 

This talk of change now is crazy, stone cold ferking crazy and anyone who entertains this is a pillock.

[Clifford Nelson]

Our record against the bottom teams is no different to Norwich's, Leeds or Millwalls. Where do people get this nonsense...QUOTE]

 

So if we are as bad as Norwich, Leeds and Millwall in this respect it makes it OK???

[John B]

Our record against the bottom teams is no different to Norwich's, Leeds or Millwalls. Where do people get this nonsense...

 

We do not fail to get promoted because we lost to Tranmere - since they beat Norwich by a goal more than us and then beat Millwall 2-0.

 

Why don't people get this.

 

We were on our knees.

We nearly lost our club.

We had no preseason.

We started the season with players not fit to lace the boots of Paul Wotton.

We went ten games winning one.

We bought in new players.

We then built a squad - which is STILL lacking.

We went on a promotion form run.

It wasn't enough.

In the interim we won the club's first silverware for 34 years.

 

We have won more games in a season than for about 25 years.

 

This is what you call in football a FOUNDATION.

 

But no let's dig the whole ferking lot up and rebuild somewhere else with someone who may or may not achieve at least as good results....

 

In a research paper by a Coventry Professor, John Beech, he identified that in 14 cases of a club with a points deduction of 10 points or more only 1 missed out on promotion as a result (Leeds), 4 finished mid-table and would have finished mid-table and 8 were relegated, abeit 1 would have been relegated without the deduction (although how he qualified this given that it does not take account of the emotional impact is not stated).

 

Bloody Hell. That shows the mountain we have climbed this season. We did not quite hit the summit. Without a deduction we could still finish second.

 

This talk of change now is crazy, stone cold ferking crazy and anyone who entertains this is a pillock.

 

But Man City who I think you suggested last season would not be in the top six got rid of Hughes in possibly similar circumstances and maybe in the Champions League next season.

 

 

 

So replacing a manager is not always wrong.

 

 

 

Now that ML/NC own the club they are responsible to no one and can do what they think is right we may not agree with their decisions but we have to accept them.

 

 

Although I think AP can lead us to the Championship he may not be the manager to take us further but only time will tell

[david in sweden]

And this requires another thread and saturation coverage on this site, does it ?

 

Hi Alpine, I wondered why you hadn't responded...

I had my own ideas and just wondered what others thought..

do you have any prognostications on the subject ..or ?

[Legod Third Coming]

But Man City who I think you suggested last season would not be in the top six got rid of Hughes in possibly similar circumstances and maybe in the Champions League next season.

 

 

 

So replacing a manager is not always wrong.

 

 

 

Now that ML/NC own the club they are responsible to no one and can do what they think is right we may not agree with their decisions but we have to accept them.

 

 

Although I think AP can lead us to the Championship he may not be the manager to take us further but only time will tell

 

You are right, but two things:

 

1, Hughes results were poor.

2, City probably won't be in the Champion's League, Spurs will which tells you that money is no guarantee of success. A good manager is the safest route to sucess and although it is heresy on here, Redknapp is a good manager, very good.

 

No one denies changing manager can work. But you have to ask on what basis you would change a manager who is successful?

[John B]

You are right, but two things:

 

1, Hughes results were poor.

2, City probably won't be in the Champion's League, Spurs will which tells you that money is no guarantee of success. A good manager is the safest route to sucess and although it is heresy on here, Redknapp is a good manager, very good.

 

No one denies changing manager can work. But you have to ask on what basis you would change a manager who is successful?

 

NC/ML may not think Pardew is as successful as he should have been with all the money spent and he may not be the person to lead us to the Premiership.

 

We just dont know what has gone on between the three of them but I dont have a five year plan so I would be happy for Pardew to continue.

 

 

But he will be under pressure next season and I am not sure he reacts well to it

[Legod Third Coming]

NC/ML may not think Pardew is as successful as he should have been with all the money spent and he may not be the person to lead us to the Premiership.

 

We just dont know what has gone on between the three of them but I dont have a five year plan so I would be happy for Pardew to continue.

 

 

But he will be under pressure next season and I am not sure he reacts well to it

 

John, I don't think many people react well to being under pressure from people whom they expect to support them. It is one thing to set someone targets and measure their performance against them, it is another to set them targets and speak publicly or otherwise about their performance if they are doing exactly what was agreed.

 

Of course, we have no idea what is really going on, but I don't think Pardew has reacted badly to pressure, otherwise we wouldn't have a trophy cabinet...

[John B]

John, I don't think many people react well to being under pressure from people whom they expect to support them. It is one thing to set someone targets and measure their performance against them, it is another to set them targets and speak publicly or otherwise about their performance if they are doing exactly what was agreed.

 

Of course, we have no idea what is really going on, but I don't think Pardew has reacted badly to pressure, otherwise we wouldn't have a trophy cabinet...

 

In all types of business there is pressure from above to meet targets but he has not appeared relaxed in front of the press on a couple of occassions.

[CB Fry]

You are right, but two things:

 

1, Hughes results were poor.

2, City probably won't be in the Champion's League, Spurs will which tells you that money is no guarantee of success. A good manager is the safest route to sucess and although it is heresy on here, Redknapp is a good manager, very good.

 

No one denies changing manager can work. But you have to ask on what basis you would change a manager who is successful?

 

 

Spurs have spent absolutely cr ap loads of money.

 

And "money is a guarantee of success" was pretty much your catchphrase on this forum and its predecessors FOR YEARS when you would blather on about "why don't we just buy Michael Owen" and rant about "if only we'd invest in the team etc etc etc etc"

 

But of course this was when we were skint and it was a comfortable theory.

 

Now we are by a country mile the richest club in the division you've retreated into the familar surroundings of money doesn't mean anything etc etc etc etc etc etc.

 

The only money that guarantees success is unspent money. As soon as it is spent it becomes "irrelevent" and everyone just moves on to something else we haven't got instead. Hence the unbelievable hyping up of the lack of pre-season this time round*.

Edited 4 May, 2010 by CB Fry
*I can't wait for the 2010-11 "we're so hard done by" excuse. You'll find something.

[Smirking_Saint]

What lost us promotion via the play-offs?

 

 

Whatever Norwich have done since the 10th match that we haven't.

 

They've taken 84 points from 35 matches, if we had done that we'd be in there, probably in second place.

 

I have no idea what it is, work it out for yourselves.

 

Exactly this,

 

We gave too many points away, lost too many leads and failed to overcome too many teams that sat back.

 

Its a shame, it was a good season and a good attempt but good was never going to cut it this year and no matter what we had a chance that we didn't take.

 

Still, NC would be mad to sack AP, next season, we should tear this league apart.

[Smirking_Saint]

Our record against the bottom teams is no different to Norwich's, Leeds or Millwalls. Where do people get this nonsense...

 

We do not fail to get promoted because we lost to Tranmere - since they beat Norwich by a goal more than us and then beat Millwall 2-0.

 

Why don't people get this.

 

We were on our knees.

We nearly lost our club.

We had no preseason.

We started the season with players not fit to lace the boots of Paul Wotton.

We went ten games winning one.

We bought in new players.

We then built a squad - which is STILL lacking.

We went on a promotion form run.

It wasn't enough.

In the interim we won the club's first silverware for 34 years.

 

We have won more games in a season than for about 25 years.

 

This is what you call in football a FOUNDATION.

 

But no let's dig the whole ferking lot up and rebuild somewhere else with someone who may or may not achieve at least as good results....

 

In a research paper by a Coventry Professor, John Beech, he identified that in 14 cases of a club with a points deduction of 10 points or more only 1 missed out on promotion as a result (Leeds), 4 finished mid-table and would have finished mid-table and 8 were relegated, abeit 1 would have been relegated without the deduction (although how he qualified this given that it does not take account of the emotional impact is not stated).

 

Bloody Hell. That shows the mountain we have climbed this season. We did not quite hit the summit. Without a deduction we could still finish second.

 

This talk of change now is crazy, stone cold ferking crazy and anyone who entertains this is a pillock.

 

 

I would argue that we have spent more money than any of those 14 cases mentioned.

 

And yes, money is a degree of success, that is why generally the teams that have money and spend on better players will sit in higher league tables.

 

Money doesn't buy success ?? except in the obvious cases of Chelsea and Blackburn ?? Money does buy success, not always but eventually.

 

Totenham have spent crap loads of cash and TBH city are not a million miles away and a win Wednesday will put them in Europe all but.

 

We have had a good season, but in all honesty, it could have been better.

[buctootim]

We had a slow start, to be expected given the pre-season and had too much inconsistency - only to be expected from a new team. Im disappointed only because we came so close, against the odds really.

[westofshannonsaint]

the minus ten & lack of preseason/poor start, meaning we spent the season playing catchup, added to the unusually high points required to reach 6th spot. I don't think anyone would have turned down 70 pts and +35 gd, with 2 games to go if it was offered last August. looking over the league tables 76 pts & +35 gd would have seen us in playoff spot in 2004, 05, 06, 07, 08, & 09.

 

also, I'm delighted we won the JPT, but the cups were a distraction - especially P*mpey.

 

But all things considered I think Saints have had a brilliant season, winning regular & won silverware.... & looking for a bright side, at least I will be able to boast that I seen SAINTS in L1 when we are winning the champion leagues final in a few years time (i didn't get to go over this season - i guess that makes me a bad fan)

[John B]

that would make sense if 'the team' had played a full season, but they didnt

 

Beating Leeds and Norwich are not beating Tranmere Exeter Wycombe and Brentford is not conistent

 

Not getting enough points means getting less than Norwich Leeds Millwall Swindon Charlton and Huddersfield if had got more we would have go to the playoffs I would have thought.

[John B]

I would argue that we have spent more money than any of those 14 cases mentioned.

 

And yes, money is a degree of success, that is why generally the teams that have money and spend on better players will sit in higher league tables.

 

Money doesn't buy success ?? except in the obvious cases of Chelsea and Blackburn ?? Money does buy success, not always but eventually.

 

Totenham have spent crap loads of cash and TBH city are not a million miles away and a win Wednesday will put them in Europe all but.

 

We have had a good season, but in all honesty, it could have been better.

 

I think you are right we could have had a better season but it was one of the best for sometime.

 

I think it shows thatPardew is a bit like Redknapp he needs to buy in players to succeed - I wonder if he will be able to develop the Academy Players into regular first team players like Cortese wants.

 

 

Seemed to do very little in that area last season but of course the youngsters maybe poor

[chrisobee]

I think you are right we could have had a better season but it was one of the best for sometime.

 

I think it shows thatPardew is a bit like Redknapp he needs to buy in players to succeed - I wonder if he will be able to develop the Academy Players into regular first team players like Cortese wants.

 

 

Seemed to do very little in that area last season but of course the youngsters maybe poor

 

There is absolutely no way you can judge Pardew in respect of younger players at the club based on this season. Unless you have someone exceptional like Walcott or Bale you need to introduce young players slowly. Aside from the cup games there have been precious few opportunities to do that. Of course we could have played more of our younger players in the Cup games but for me Pardew's comment that we needed to develop a winning mentality was bang on the money and for that reason alone I have no problem with his team selections. I'm convinced it will be a different story next season and we will rest a lot of players for the cup games though of course that remains to be seen. However, Pardew has a lot about him which suggests to me he knows that will be the best option.

[trousers]

Rupert Lowe.

 

Barclays Bank plc

[chrisobee]

Barclays Bank plc

 

I never have liked Barclays TBH

[doddisalegend]

For all those using Man city and Spurs as examples these teams have spent lots of money to finish possibly fourth, is that succsess? Secondly take -10 pts of either of those teams and they wouldn't even have enough points for seventh. Why do people find it so hard to accept that giving everyone else a 10pt head start was always going to make it difficult.

 

Also why are we talking about costing us promotion? NC said he wanted playoffs he never said anything about promotion this year. Play offs do not = promotion.

[ericofarabia]

getting less points than the top 6

 

Actually we have won as many points as Huddersfield in 6th place even with the hiccup of the last 2 games taken into account, and would be going into the last game of the season with a theoretical chance of automatic promotion .............. if ........ yes you guessed it, it wasn't for the -10 points or the ™ 1st 10 games of the season

[ericofarabia]

It is all down to One person .... ME

 

As if my being a plastic expat fan, isn't already a great enough hindrance to the club :cool:, when I am temporarily of "non expat status" the situation gets even worse :mad:

 

I have had 2 holidays back in The UK this season, one at the start of the season and one over Xmas. During these 2 stays whilst I was actually in England, our results in the league were .....

 

P9 W1 D4 L4 (the 4 games I actually attended were 2 draws and 2 loses) . If you add to that the Brighton H game which I watched on Sky via teh innernet it gets even worse. :confused:

 

So I don't think you'll be surprised to hear that I also watched the Skates FA Cup game live on the innernet then

[ottery st mary]

It is all down to One person .... ME

 

As if my being a plastic expat fan, isn't already a great enough hindrance to the club :cool:, when I am temporarily of "non expat status" the situation gets even worse :mad:

 

I have had 2 holidays back in The UK this season, one at the start of the season and one over Xmas. During these 2 stays whilst I was actually in England, our results in the league were .....

 

P9 W1 D4 L4 (the 4 games I actually attended were 2 draws and 2 loses) . If you add to that the Brighton H game which I watched on Sky via teh innernet it gets even worse. :confused:

 

So I don't think you'll be surprised to hear that I also watched the Skates FA Cup game live on the innernet then

 

 

Far too many crayons for my liking:smt117

 

Now stop it[-X

Start supporting Pompey:smt084

[Legod Third Coming]

Spurs have spent absolutely cr ap loads of money.

 

And "money is a guarantee of success" was pretty much your catchphrase on this forum and its predecessors FOR YEARS when you would blather on about "why don't we just buy Michael Owen" and rant about "if only we'd invest in the team etc etc etc etc"

 

But of course this was when we were skint and it was a comfortable theory.

 

Now we are by a country mile the richest club in the division you've retreated into the familar surroundings of money doesn't mean anything etc etc etc etc etc etc.

 

The only money that guarantees success is unspent money. As soon as it is spent it becomes "irrelevent" and everyone just moves on to something else we haven't got instead. Hence the unbelievable hyping up of the lack of pre-season this time round*.

 

Ok, I didn't express that very well!

 

You are right, money will guarantee success eventually and I don't retract my view that if money is limited is it spent in this order:

 

Find and pay best manager available

Find best players available (at manager's choosing) - but yes the best players available and to be spent on key players who can make a difference not spread around like fecking butter!

 

There's no rocket science to football management. The teams who pay most to their players win the Premiership every year. They also have the best managers...

 

My point was that good managers can compensate for a lack of money - whereas money cannot compensate for a poor manager.

 

In my view we have both a good manager and the money he needs which I would give him and let him get on with the job.

 

Let's for a minute compare who Pardew has bought with say Benitez - no question who is the better buyer of players there. I'm failing to see one bad purchase who hasn't strengthened our side or had something to offer.

 

You yourself said that Pardew HAS been successful. By any salient measure we have had a very good season given where started.

 

That we missed out on promotion because of a points deduction (without it we could well have finished second by Saturday afternoon) marks the season out as being rare (as the stats above tell you).

 

Should we have been promoted with our resources? Possibly. Does that mean we should change manager?

 

And back to the original question, why did we miss out on promotion, in my view because we didn't get our good manager soon enough!!!!

[up and away]

was it the -10 points ..or the first ten games ? (.or a combination of the two ...?)

 

Either way it's wrong that AP should be blamed for either.

The team he put together and added to in January produced results

good enough to put us well in the promotion hunt...

 

I sincerely hope that AP stays, as yet ANOTHER revamp of the coaching staff would be more than most fans could put up with ..let alone the the players.

 

I don't think NC is that shortsighted to sack AP.

He talked about a FIVE YEAR PLAN, that doesn't mean he 'll be hiring / firing a new manager every season - does it ? I hope not.

 

It's all water under the bridge now, we can all have a pet theory as to why we never made the play off's. The one thing you can categorically state is that we never maximised our chances of making the play off's. There's no guarantee we would have made it what ever, but we definitely could have improved our chances.

 

A five year plan can only work if it is followed. If the manager decides to go in another direction, that 5 year plan starts becoming irrelevant. This is the problem Cortese has and what Pardew has to reassure him regarding the season ahead.

 

I am sure we will buy wisely in the transfer market and expect us to be a lot stronger next season. As long as we hold onto players there should no long term effects to not going up this season, apart from the financial aspect.

 

You only have to look at Leeds collapse in form this season and many will tie that into their FA cup run. They put out their best teams for those games and although impressively successful, they just seemed to hit the wall there after, with the volume and intensity of the games just catching up with them. They certainly made £M's from those ties which they maybe could not have over looked, or maybe the assumption they were untouchable in the league with so much of a cushion? Were Leeds to fail to go up this season, I really doubt you would find many fans that thought those FA cup games were worth another season in league 1.