Saints fans jailed

[Glasgow_Saint]

I am writing this from jail....its a blast in here!

[Yeti]

Handing out custodial sentances for this is ridiculous.

 

Feel very sorry for the lads involved and their families

[RonManager]

I am writing this from jail....its a blast in here!

 

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?

 

Ok. Cake with file in it in thepost (recorded, you'll have to sign for it).

[Toadhall Saint]

So sending a message eh - give them all on average a year behind the wall? Why not fine them so Freeborns are not out of pocket? Also who pays for them while inside eh? You and me. But no its decided to put them away - sounds like the families are doing time as well.

 

This whole thing was stage managed by the OB just to make them look like they are doing "something" IMHO.

[saint boggy]

i wonder how many of the 12 were 'first time offenders'...........be interesting to find out, dontcha think??

[StuRomseySaint]

i wonder how many of the 12 were 'first time offenders'...........be interesting to find out, dontcha think??

 

I heard 1 had previous violent offences ( non-football )

 

This is backed up by the fact they all had to be identified through the Echo, which means they were not on the polices radar with regards to football related offences.

[revolution saint]

One of the lads, Allan Taylor, had done time before for violent disorder (actually I think it was a domestic abuse issue) so he's not exactly an angel. He's also a spurs fan and in my opinion stupid. I can't comment on the rest as I don't know them but clearly not all of them were decent, unblemished saints fans who just got a bit carried away.

[StuRomseySaint]

One of the lads, Allan Taylor, had done time before for violent disorder (actually I think it was a domestic abuse issue) so he's not exactly an angel. He's also a spurs fan and in my opinion stupid. I can't comment on the rest as I don't know them but clearly not all of them were decent, unblemished saints fans who just got a bit carried away.

 

It can't be violent disorder AND/OR domestic abuse. They are completely different offences.

 

I suggest you go and compare the charges. :-)

Edited 21 June, 2010 by StuRomseySaint

[itchen]

... how many men have never had a fight? Not many i know....

 

We must move in different social circles. I haven't had a fight since I was 11 and can't think of any of my adult friends who have either. We must all be dead soft.

[revolution saint]

If you read I said it was one or the other - actually I'm pretty sure it was for smacking around his girlfriend at the time. Not that it really makes much difference does it?

[Wade Garrett]

Might make other idiots think again before starting trouble at games, particularly the youth element.

 

They behaved like idiots, but these sentences do seem harsh when you read about rapists or paedo's who escape jail sentences (i personally know a convicted rapist who escaped jail).

[saint boggy]

We must move in different social circles. I haven't had a fight since I was 11 and can't think of any of my adult friends who have either. We must all be dead soft.

or civil human beings..........

[StuRomseySaint]

If you read I said it was one or the other - actually I'm pretty sure it was for smaling around his girlfriend at the time. Not that it really makes much difference does it?

 

Of course it makes a difference. If he has already been imprisoned for Violent Disorder before then of course he should have the book thrown at him. If it was domestic abuse, then this is his first offence of Violent Disorder ( although his previous violence convictions may be taken into account, but not to the extent they would if it was violent disorder )

 

So yes, it does make a difference. xx

[Wes Tender]

We all break the law everyday, have never done 38 mph in a 30 zone? how many men have never had a fight? Not many i know, let he who is without sin..... The point is these guys day by day are probably decent, law abiding citizens, but they acted stupidly and have been punished for thier actions in a ridiculously over the top way just so the government and Hants OB can be seen to make an example of people, best legal system in the world? It is if your a repeat offender, if are a nornmal bloke you cross the line just once though you are ****ed.

 

No. You can't equate breaking the speed limit with wanton acts of vandalism, I'm afraid and I don't accept that they can be defined as "decent law abiding citizens" if they are capable of this sort of action.

 

I'm not arguing the finer points of it all, the extenuated circumstances of it perhaps being drink induced, retaliation, the distinction between throwing coins or criminal damage to that garages stock of cars. I'm not even expressing an opinion about whether the punishment is extreme, I'm just saying that the phrase "law abiding citizen" does not sit comfortably in my mind with these actions.

[aintforever]

A while ago a couple of little chav ****ers down my road chucked stuff at my car as I was on my way back from work, the plod were not even interested. Now it appear throwing things means a year in jail.

 

These guys have just been made an example of, basically discriminated against for being football fans. The filth are making a habit of that as anyone who went to Millwall away knows.

[Wes Tender]

We must move in different social circles. I haven't had a fight since I was 11 and can't think of any of my adult friends who have either. We must all be dead soft.

 

Also hasn't had a fight since a similar age. I don't go looking for trouble, so therefore usually manage to avoid it.

[StuRomseySaint]

No. You can't equate breaking the speed limit with wanton acts of vandalism, I'm afraid and I don't accept that they can be defined as "decent law abiding citizens" if they are capable of this sort of action.

 

I'm not arguing the finer points of it all, the extenuated circumstances of it perhaps being drink induced, retaliation, the distinction between throwing coins or criminal damage to that garages stock of cars. I'm not even expressing an opinion about whether the punishment is extreme, I'm just saying that the phrase "law abiding citizen" does not sit comfortably in my mind with these actions.

 

Can we just ( once again ) get something clear.

 

The 12 were charged with violent disorder and not criminal damage. 99% of the criminal damage was smashed windows to cars and dents etc caused by P*mpey throwing missles in to the Saints fans. The only criminal damage caused by Saints fans was a couple of hubcaps and some wire fencing.

 

So I don't know why people are mentioning criminal damage when that's not what these 12 were charged with. I only know the story of one... who threw a small lump of wood back that landed by his feet, thrown by a skate. It bounced harmlessly nowhere near anyone... now he is inside for 12 months, lost his job, house, etc etc... if you think that is actually a crime that warrants losing all that then quite frankly, you are a c*nt.

[Micky]

You sum up the vast majority of people on these forums, not allowing the fact that you have "no understanding of any of it" and "I don't know any of the facts" stand in the way of having your chance to spout forrth your bizarre rhetoric. Boring day in the office? Nothing on tv at home? I'll jump on saintsweb and waffle away on there.

 

Where is ANYONE saying that "no-one is responsible"? Or have you got the wrong thread?

 

Ahhh so you agree - they are responsible and they do deserve to be punished - we stand together then. The bottom line is we are all solely responsible for our own actions. Most chose not to get involved - some did and now have to pay the price. The fact that Stu may think that the punishment does not fit the crime or that the old bill are also somehow to blame is neither here nor there.

 

Once again - no 'rhetoric' as you put it - simple common sence - do I want to get nicked ? Nah - I'll p iss off home then. It aint rocket science, and if would have saved many of them a whole heap of trouble now.

 

Boring day at the office - yep, shure was, s hagshyte on tv too, so I f ucked off to TSW - hope you enjoyed the common sense...!

[Ponty]

They've probably been locked up for their own safety. If they're stupid enough to throw coins and other missiles, in front of the police and their cameras, then they're certainly stupid enough to run whilst holding a pair of scissors or stick a knife in a toaster.

[saint boggy]

SOOOOOOOOOOOO...........

hands up how many people are gonna be goading and reacting to opposition fans' goading now then???????

[NickG]

It can't be violent disorder AND/OR domestic abuse. They are completely different offences.

 

I suggest you go and compare the charges. :-)

 

Stu, you are wrong you can have violent disorder which is domestic abuse, suggest you look it up.

[StuRomseySaint]

Stu, you are wrong you can have violent disorder which is domestic abuse, suggest you look it up.

 

Violent Disorder is part of the Public Order Act. And for it to be violent disorder it has to involve at least 3 people threatening violence. What part of that have you managed to link to domestic abuse Einstein?

[NickG]

Domestic abuse can be behaviour that is physically, sexually and psychologically abusive and is directed by one partner (or ex-partner) against another. (courtesy of domestic abuse website)

 

In English Law Violent Disorder forms part of the Public Order Act 1986 under section 2.

 

The Public Order Act 1986 s.2 states:

 

1) Where 3 or more persons who are present together use or threaten unlawful violence and the conduct of them (taken together) is such as would cause a person of reasonable firmness present at the scene to fear for their personal safety, each of the persons using or threatening unlawful violence is guilty of violent disorder.

 

2) It is immaterial whether or not the 3 or more use or threaten unlawful violence simultaneously.

 

3) No person of reasonable firmness need actually be, or be likely to be, present at the scene.

 

4) Violent disorder may be committed in private as well as in public places

 

 

There you go Stu - they can be the same - not common as violent disorder involves a group rather than 1 v 1, however not mutually exclusive. If you and you mates went round to your ex-girlfiends house to give her stick sufficient for above it would be both.

 

Just enjoy proving you wrong, again!

[NickG]

Violent Disorder is part of the Public Order Act. And for it to be violent disorder it has to involve at least 3 people threatening violence. What part of that have you managed to link to domestic abuse Einstein?

 

Einstein waits for your apology? Or is it back to the ignore step again as usual when you lose an argument!

[StuRomseySaint]

Nick, you really are a tedious c*nt. Violent Disorder and Domestic Abuse are completely different you troll. Of course you could link any offences up... but seriously, you are clutching at straws. That's like saying rape and murder are the same thing ( well using your theory, you could f*ck someone to death )

 

If you enjoy sitting/hiding behind your PC trying to prove people wrong and that's what gives you a hard-on every night, can I suggest you get on a dating site and find a bird ( or bloke in your case )

[70's Mike]

A while ago a couple of little chav ****ers down my road chucked stuff at my car as I was on my way back from work, the plod were not even interested. Now it appear throwing things means a year in jail.

 

These guys have just been made an example of, basically discriminated against for being football fans. The filth are making a habit of that as anyone who went to Millwall away knows.

 

Agree with that point of view.

shame the judge did not criticise the OB tactics of letting everyone out at the same time, seems like preventative policing applies to every area of life except football

[Um Bongo]

Stu, I owe you a pint. I was wrong, they have been made examples of. Of course with good behaviour they will serve half of their sentence.

[revolution saint]

Violent Disorder is part of the Public Order Act. And for it to be violent disorder it has to involve at least 3 people threatening violence. What part of that have you managed to link to domestic abuse Einstein?

 

To be fair I don't think the actual definition and reason for his previous incarceration matter too much. It was for violence of some sort against his girlfriend and if I've maligned him with the accusation of violent disorder when it was just petty and trivial domestic abuse then of course I apologise.

 

He's still a spurs fan though but that shouldn't stop him joining in with a bit of football related aggro at a saints game should it? I can see I got the guy all wrong......and yes, I do know him.

[Thedelldays]

so then...who is up for some aggro the next time we play pompey..?

[StuRomseySaint]

To be fair I don't think the actual definition and reason for his previous incarceration matter too much. It was for violence of some sort against his girlfriend and if I've maligned him with the accusation of violent disorder when it was just petty and trivial domestic abuse then of course I apologise.

 

He's still a spurs fan though but that shouldn't stop him joining in with a bit of football related aggro at a saints game should it? I can see I got the guy all wrong......and yes, I do know him.

 

I already explained why it would make a massive impact on the sentance which one it was. I didn't say domestic abuse was trivial.

 

And as for being a Spurs fan, I don't give a f*ck who someone supports, I wouldn't even wish them sentances on a skate... they are wrong and I feel sorry for each and every one of them.

[John B]

I already explained why it would make a massive impact on the sentance which one it was. I didn't say domestic abuse was trivial.

 

And as for being a Spurs fan, I don't give a f*ck who someone supports, I wouldn't even wish them sentances on a skate... they are wrong and I feel sorry for each and every one of them.

 

They are right and I do not feel sorry for each and every one of them.

 

Wanton Violence has no place on the Streets of Southampton

[Minsk]

If you read I said it was one or the other - actually I'm pretty sure it was for smacking around his girlfriend at the time. Not that it really makes much difference does it?

 

Of course it makes a difference. If he has already been imprisoned for Violent Disorder before then of course he should have the book thrown at him. If it was domestic abuse, then this is his first offence of Violent Disorder ( although his previous violence convictions may be taken into account, but not to the extent they would if it was violent disorder )

 

So yes, it does make a difference. xx

 

It sure does make a difference, any (so called) man who hits a woman should be sent down for way more than 12 months IMO. (I know the 'previous' is not connected with sentence).

 

Personally, I think the jail terms are very severe. However, I cannot say that I really have any sympathy. As others have said, the offenders made the decision to break the law in front of the police and their cameras - not very smart, to say the least!

 

Basically, if you don't want to do the time don't do the crime.

[NickG]

Nick, you really are a tedious c*nt. Violent Disorder and Domestic Abuse are completely different you troll. Of course you could link any offences up... but seriously, you are clutching at straws. That's like saying rape and murder are the same thing ( well using your theory, you could f*ck someone to death )

 

If you enjoy sitting/hiding behind your PC trying to prove people wrong and that's what gives you a hard-on every night, can I suggest you get on a dating site and find a bird ( or bloke in your case )

 

I have replied to your pm to stop everyone else getting bored with this.

You felt the need to, wrongly, correct a poster, yet when you are corrected suddenly its worthy of this personal abuse.

Putting it simply for you, you said it cannot be violent disorder and domestic abuse - it can. They are different terms but can refer to the same incident.

You have confused yourself with your comparison with rape and murder. They are not the same - but it is another example where an incident could have both - he raped and murdered her.

 

Let me know if you want it easier.

[Thedelldays]

so then...who is up for some aggro the next time we play pompey..?

 

anyone..?

[rocknrollman no2]

If you have a punch up while in town,or even in your own home,then the old plod will arrest you and the most you will get is a fine,or maybe community service,sometimes both.

Those Saints fans who were jailed were made scapegoats because the justice system treats football fans unfairly,compared to everyone else and also because the police acted totally incompetently by letting out both sets of fans at once.

I bet if there was trouble at the Rose Bowl,none of those involed would be jailed.

[70's Mike]

so then...who is up for some aggro the next time we play pompey..?

dedpends on the definition of aggro?

32500 hurling abuse at each other. 10 throwing stones and 50 in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Many years ago Saints were at home to Chelsea, the game was called off so i decided to work , i had a part time job in M&S when it was in the high street. The manager asked me to pop into Smith's for something as i was walking back into Vincents Walk to go in the warehouse of M&S a mob of Saints fans came running up Hanover Buildings chased by 50 Chelsea fans. The OB turned up and i was arrested a long with 20 others.Taken to Civic Centre police station and held in custody until the M&S Store Manager came and valididated my story.

No apology or even a sorry.

Wrong place wrong time easy target

[SaintNeil90]

Some peoples comments on here are laughable. People went out their way to try and get at the pompey fans, the majority of them do it regularly. They may have jobs, families, they should have thought about that before, especially knowing police have cameras and take football violence very very seriously. Some people are making them out to be the victims!

[Thedelldays]

look

 

people were warned

football crime will always carry a harsher sentance..look in SA, some bloke from friday who was "looking for the loo" and found the england team was in court today..? 3 fecking days..?

why is that..? I think we all know why...

 

the sentance is harsh..but this is a harsh world..about fuking time we started to get harsh on people who break the law like this......mindless intimidation has no place in society...

 

maybe, this may stop such scenes from happening again the next time pompey visit SMS

[SaintNeil90]

They DID go out their way to cause trouble

They DID'NT have any reason to be there

They DID commit a crime

They DID get caught

[StuRomseySaint]

Some peoples comments on here are laughable. People went out their way to try and get at the pompey fans, the majority of them do it regularly. They may have jobs, families, they should have thought about that before, especially knowing police have cameras and take football violence very very seriously. Some people are making them out to be the victims!

 

Hang on... the majority of them do it regulary?

 

What proof do you have on this?

[View From The Top]

anyone..?

 

Like the previous games any serious disorder will happen away from the cameras and a few fellas will end up getting caught up in the moment near the ground and end up paying a very high price.

[SaintNeil90]

Hang on... the majority of them do it regulary?

 

What proof do you have on this?

 

Same old faces mate.

 

Besides the point, refer to my last post!

[StuRomseySaint]

Same old faces mate.

 

Besides the point, refer to my last post!

 

Same old faces?

 

How do you know this?

 

Are you talking out of your @rse?

 

If they were the same old faces then the OB wouldn't have had to get the Echo to put pictures in the paper to identify them you muppet. It is safe to say that NONE of the people identified in the Echo have been in any trouble of note before involving SFC.

[SaintNeil90]

Same old faces?

 

How do you know this?

 

Are you talking out of your @rse?

 

If they were the same old faces then the OB wouldn't have had to get the Echo to put pictures in the paper to identify them you muppet. It is safe to say that NONE of the people identified in the Echo have been in any trouble of note before involving SFC.

 

They DID go out their way to cause trouble

They DID'NT have any reason to be there

They DID commit a crime

They DID get caught

[View From The Top]

They DID go out their way to cause trouble

They DID'NT have any reason to be there

They DID commit a crime

They DID get caught

 

Whilst I agree I also feel that their sentences were harsh, especially those where it was a 1st offence.

 

I also know that custodial sentences were the target of the OB. By B-I-L was a DS on the case. I also know that they didn't get any one those they actually wanted.

[View From The Top]

They DID go out their way to cause trouble

They DID'NT have any reason to be there

They DID commit a crime

They DID get caught

 

But hardly the same old faces that you declared them to be.

 

If they had of been their faces wouldn't have been in the print or broadcast media they would have just received the 6 oclock knock.

[StuRomseySaint]

They DID go out their way to cause trouble

They DID'NT have any reason to be there

They DID commit a crime

They DID get caught

 

Don't change the subject, I wasn't picking you up on that.

 

You said it was the same old faces and they do it regulary.

 

How do you know that?

[SaintNeil90]

I like the way you avoid the facts.

[StuRomseySaint]

I like the way you avoid the facts.

 

Don't change the subject, I never made a comment about that.

 

I made a comment in relation to your 2 seperate statements about them doing it regulary and being the same old faces.

 

Please enlighten us as to how you know this?

[SaintNeil90]

Don't change the subject, I wasn't picking you up on that.

 

You said it was the same old faces and they do it regulary.

 

How do you know that?

 

IN MY OPINION! Peopl are allowed opinions and you are not always right like you think you are!