shurlock Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Tuesday's result again showed how important Kelvin Davis to the side (2 magnificent saves at the start of the 2nd half); and for once Saints fans picked up on it (it might also have something to do with the fact that we have no chants for the rest of the team). That followed a great performance on Saturday where he kept us in it first half. But I wonder how long it will last - Saints fans are incredibly fickle and rarely give him the benefit of the doubt - many will remember how some of our lot turned against him last season at prompting an angry if heartfelt reaction)- this despite the fact that our entire defense was a mess. And again on Tuesday, some were grumbling that, while Kel was having a good game, he had let us down this season, citing QPR. QPR? At 4-1, he made the score look respectable! A more disingenuous response is the old 'he's-a-great-shot-stopper-but-doesnt-command-his-line'. There may be a slither of truth in that but its still arguably got more to do with the inability to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps, subconsciously, we cant forgive him for the matty taylor goal in a previous life. Or perhaps its evidence that our fans are genetically fickle, something that sadly spreads to other parts of the club i.e. poor attendances etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanovski Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 tbf if hes been **** we arent exactly gonna thinkn wow this guys amazing. but i agree hes been immense probably the bst goalie in our league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 He is 10 times the player he was at this stage last year. And he deserves credit for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Much improved this year, better all round performances. I think the QPR connection was two years ago when he had loads of time, dallied on the ball, lost it and QPR scored out of nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Zero to Hero but all too easy to go back to zero, who'd be a goalkeeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 I think the problem is endemic to all clubs unfortunately. Whether this results from the MTV generation's impatience or whether this has always been the case, I don't know. Perhaps some older and wiser heads can perhaps shed some light? To Kelvin Davis' name you can add many other names - some who have won the fans over, others who have proved themselves elsewhere, some who left without a trace. Recent history gives us zero to heroes like : Crouch, Fuller, Telfer, Delap, Wright, Paul Jones etc. What annoys me is the prejudice, not give them a chance mentality - we saw it recently with Holmes and in the past with Crouch and Fuller. I have never been more embarassed to be a Saints fan than with the booing of players when they're being subbed on, or when their name is read out (it has happened more than once in the last couple of seasons). People try to justify it - I've paid my money etc. etc. - but they don't seem to realise it MUST have an effect on the player's confidence. Kelvin Davis is an object lesson in how a bit of confidence can result in a fundamentally different performance. Currently he'd be the first name on my team sheet (because he's playing well, not just because he's number one ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven on the wing Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 He is now putting in the performances that justify what are believed to be high wages and a high fee. I admit to being a critic of his up to now, but that doesnot mean to say you are blind to reality - he has played very well this season. If an offer of £500k came in (in January) would we be wise to sell him based on his performances overall since he has been here ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Agree it is endemic and comes with the territory of being a GK. Pompey fans probably think David James is a hero or a nobber on alternate weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 i have defended Davis all along, I dont think he has improved he was good all along.I just believe the fans perception has changed as they now see that Bart is not as good as they thought he was and so realise KD is our best hope.I do agree that KD made a couple of terrible mistakes, but as I have maintained al along that all keepers make mistake and there has never been a keeper who is faultless. Without a doubt there is going ot be a mistake again, I just hope fans will now be a bgit more understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 2 October, 2008 Author Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Much improved this year, better all round performances. I think the QPR connection was two years ago when he had loads of time, dallied on the ball, lost it and QPR scored out of nothing. The QPR connection was this season but you're right about QPR two years ago - he did something similar against Preston (home), though had an under-rated season on the whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 2 October, 2008 Author Share Posted 2 October, 2008 I think the problem is endemic to all clubs unfortunately. Whether this results from the MTV generation's impatience or whether this has always been the case, I don't know. Perhaps some older and wiser heads can perhaps shed some light? Recent history gives us zero to heroes like : Crouch, Fuller, Telfer, Delap, Wright, Paul Jones etc. . ) I agree. I dont think its just a keeper thing. You can see the knives are out and being sharpened for the likes of McG, even though he's our top scorer. It is probably endemic, though some clubs/supporters (i.e. liverpool) still pride themselves on their patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Martini Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 I think suffered from the rather big fee we paid for him (£1.2 million?). After his terrible season in the PL nobody thought he was worth that (forgetting he was also instrumental to Sunderlands promotion). For some reason Burley (or Webster) never got the best out of him for two years but now he's back at the level which got him CCC goallie of the year Ipswhich finished 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchen Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 i have defended Davis all along, I dont think he has improved he was good all along.I just believe the fans perception has changed as they now see that Bart is not as good as they thought he was and so realise KD is our best hope.I do agree that KD made a couple of terrible mistakes, but as I have maintained al along that all keepers make mistake and there has never been a keeper who is faultless. Without a doubt there is going ot be a mistake again, I just hope fans will now be a bgit more understanding. Quite agree. But it still goes on before players have even kicked a ball viz "Why do we need Robertson? No better than we have already." Robertson scores a wonder goal and he's a hero. If he has a poor game next time it will be "Why did we need Robertson? He scored a freaky first goal but he's done nothing since. It proves JP doesn't know what he's doing." Whether Saints fans are any worse than others I don't know but we do always seem to need a whipping boy somewhere in the team and it becomes very difficult for a player to change that perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 He had a terrible first season with us. Then he improved. That's all there is to it. And the QPR thing was probably a reference to two seasons ago, when the ball ran through to him and he tried to run it out of play, but Ray Jones (RIP) nicked it off him and slotted it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 I think suffered from the rather big fee we paid for him (£1.2 million?). After his terrible season in the PL nobody thought he was worth that (forgetting he was also instrumental to Sunderlands promotion). For some reason Burley (or Webster) never got the best out of him for two years but now he's back at the level which got him CCC goallie of the year Ipswhich finished 3rd. You had the fee plus the small fact he was absolute rubbish when he first came to Saints, compounded by the fact he kept his place no matter how many howlers he made. The only thing to change that round is to put in good, consistent performances which is what we have seen from him this season. It's not rocket science, put in crap performances and the fans don't think you should be in the team. Exactly the same thing happened with Drew for a long period last season, but fortunately fans got to see a lot of the good before he went off the boil and he should not have been included in the team for that period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Great goalkeeper and thank goodness he is our goalie behind a very young team his experience will be invaluable. Will only get better. Hope Bart gets his confidence back some how..Out on loan maybe. Otherwise Forecast and the youth team goalkeepers better start coming through..Well done the goalkeeper KD.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 You had the fee plus the small fact he was absolute rubbish when he first came to Saints, compounded by the fact he kept his place no matter how many howlers he made. The only thing to change that round is to put in good, consistent performances which is what we have seen from him this season. It's not rocket science, put in crap performances and the fans don't think you should be in the team. Exactly the same thing happened with Drew for a long period last season, but fortunately fans got to see a lot of the good before he went off the boil and he should not have been included in the team for that period.No I dont agree, the fans did not make him feel welcome from day one. There were so many tantrus on here by people telling us that Bart was class and should be playing (dont forget both were bought in by GB and so he had no axe to grind). That haunted KD and he also had to deal with the fact that the Sunderland fans looking to point the finger of blame (where have we seen that before?) trashed him and the fans on here lapped it up. Very soon he had the fans on his back and some were ridiculous in some of their criticism and blamed him for some goals that were never his fault. Iam happy for him as he has fought back and proved some wrong although few admit they are but say he had improved (which is fine by me, at least they are not at him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Do we need a definition of fickle for the millionth time? Christ... It does NOT mean changing your mind. It would only apply if you changed it very easily and frequently. If he played badly on saturday and we all had a go, that may well be fickle. However, he came here, looked poor a lot of the time, then at best was inconsistent for a season before being replaced. People said all along he was still a good shotstopper. He has improved remarkably over the summer and is having a very consistent season. Not changing your opinion in the face of contradictory evidence is just stubborn. We've seen a lot more from Davis so he's getting the praise he deserves. Hardly anything to do with being fickle, ie. because there is good reason. Quite. Additionally. No we're not the most fickle fans in the league, the country, europe or the world. We're just the same as any other bunch of fans...it's what football fans do...it's why Man Utd fans consistently call up 606 and call for Alex Ferguson's head when they're going through a bad patch... Although there seems an all too happy slide towards trying to slag each other off on this site at the moment...if i see one more thread on stay away fans i might just pop... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 No I dont agree, the fans did not make him feel welcome from day one. There were so many tantrus on here by people telling us that Bart was class and should be playing (dont forget both were bought in by GB and so he had no axe to grind). That haunted KD and he also had to deal with the fact that the Sunderland fans looking to point the finger of blame (where have we seen that before?) trashed him and the fans on here lapped it up. Very soon he had the fans on his back and some were ridiculous in some of their criticism and blamed him for some goals that were never his fault. Iam happy for him as he has fought back and proved some wrong although few admit they are but say he had improved (which is fine by me, at least they are not at him). You have to say he was poor in 06/07 Nick, it wasn't just the QPR blooper but also Preston home and also he got banned at a critical time by kicking an opposing player up the arse. Admittedly, the Sunderland fans gave him a very bad rap on S4E at the time but he was in and out of the side. He had a horror show at Hillsborough last season and that's been a watershed for Kelvin, he's played well ever since and this season has looked the keeper he was at Ipswich. His second half saves V Blackpool were up there with Antti at his best and possibly even Shilts for the fans like us over 30. If there was a poll for player of the season now, Kelvin would walk it despite some promise from Lallana. Us fans are fickle - Dowie also took fearful flak but won us over, helped by a super finish over a title-challenging Villa side. Crouch is another example although the planks in the Northam stand who booed him (and Fuller) initially need their heads examining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Some Saints fans are not only fickle, but seriously lacking in the ability to make reflective judgements. Most on this forum (am I being too generous?) do contribute interesting views and coherent opinions (notably except Scooby of course) imo. But everyone has a right to react as they please. Though it really is irritating sometimes to hear some of the irrational remarks made at the grounds about whoever is the latest scapegoat. In balance, some of the chants at matches are hilarious. That's what I like about being in the crowd. The unpredictability. (Not to mention the match.) lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Quite. Additionally. No we're not the most fickle fans in the league, the country, europe or the world. We're just the same as any other bunch of fans...it's what football fans do...it's why Man Utd fans consistently call up 606 and call for Alex Ferguson's head when they're going through a bad patch... Although there seems an all too happy slide towards trying to slag each other off on this site at the moment...if i see one more thread on stay away fans i might just pop... Good post buddy, debate is healthy and good but some of the posts and threads on here - particularly the bi-polar one, are not on and the mods need to pull them a lot faster although mods do have a tough job I admit. One of my mate's ex-girlfriends has bi-polar disorder and whoever started that thread is a moron of the highest order. I usually like GM's posts as well - very informative and funny but even he made a pillock of himself with the comparison to WWII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hacienda Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 He's made massive improvements to his game and it shows and he deserves high praise for his current form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Do we need a definition of fickle for the millionth time? Christ... It does NOT mean changing your mind. It would only apply if you changed it very easily and frequently. If he played badly on saturday and we all had a go, that may well be fickle. However, he came here, looked poor a lot of the time, then at best was inconsistent for a season before being replaced. People said all along he was still a good shotstopper. He has improved remarkably over the summer and is having a very consistent season. Not changing your opinion in the face of contradictory evidence is just stubborn. We've seen a lot more from Davis so he's getting the praise he deserves. Hardly anything to do with being fickle, ie. because there is good reason. Completely agree. Criticising a player when they are poor and praising him when he plays well isn't fickle at all. The same as if Davis has a poor game on Saturday, I will say Davis was poor today. That doesn't make me fickle either, that's just pointing out what happens. Booing him if he made a howler at Coventry, THAT would be fickle. I also don't agree with nickh's theory thathe has been good all along, but we are only just figuring out that Bart is poor. In our playoff season, Davis was poor overall. Made some terrible errors, not to mention poor positioning and decision making when it came to collecting crosses and through balls. Bart was very good when given chance that season. I think it is a shame many on here seem to be writing him off after a couple of dodgy appearances, one over a year ago against Palace and one against Rotherham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Football fans in being fickle shocker! - Well done Sherlock, pure genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 No I dont agree, the fans did not make him feel welcome from day one. There were so many tantrus on here by people telling us that Bart was class and should be playing (dont forget both were bought in by GB and so he had no axe to grind). That haunted KD and he also had to deal with the fact that the Sunderland fans looking to point the finger of blame (where have we seen that before?) trashed him and the fans on here lapped it up. Very soon he had the fans on his back and some were ridiculous in some of their criticism and blamed him for some goals that were never his fault. Iam happy for him as he has fought back and proved some wrong although few admit they are but say he had improved (which is fine by me, at least they are not at him). Just think about it for a minute! If Kelvin had put in the performances he is doing now, when he first arrived at the club, we would not be having this conversation. The fact that fans now are over joyed at having him in goal, after all the dross he has served up previously, is even more evidence that this is down to performance. Fans were quite right to be disappointed that we paid £1,25M for the worst goalie in Premier history who's confidence was so shot to pieces, that it has taken him until now to recover. The acceptance of the fans of Davies now, clearly show that it is only the performances that count, otherwise he would be doing a life sentence for previous crimes. Go back and look at Fuller, Wright, Davies and Euell and there is one consistent theme throughout. A player that continues to keep their place irrespective of how bad their performances are. This is the one thing that angers fans to boiling point. Everyone accepts players can have bad days, but few can accept continual selection irrespective of the bad performances. The same happened to Drew last season after his U21 call up, even though he managed to put in a lot of good performances previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 You have to say he was poor in 06/07 Nick, it wasn't just the QPR blooper but also Preston home and also he got banned at a critical time by kicking an opposing player up the arse. Admittedly, the Sunderland fans gave him a very bad rap on S4E at the time but he was in and out of the side. He had a horror show at Hillsborough last season and that's been a watershed for Kelvin, he's played well ever since and this season has looked the keeper he was at Ipswich. His second half saves V Blackpool were up there with Antti at his best and possibly even Shilts for the fans like us over 30. If there was a poll for player of the season now, Kelvin would walk it despite some promise from Lallana. Us fans are fickle - Dowie also took fearful flak but won us over, helped by a super finish over a title-challenging Villa side. Crouch is another example although the planks in the Northam stand who booed him (and Fuller) initially need their heads examining. I cant concur with some of what you say there.He was under pressure and I believe was really frustrated that whatever he did he was going to be blamed.Yes the QPR and Preston games were real stand out mistakes and did cost us. The sending off i never saw and so cant make a judgement.I didnt go to Hillsborough but have seen the goals.To me it was one of those games where the ball went in from some really good shots (a bit like Wolves away when we scored form 6 attempts) Dowie never won me over, he had the best supplier of chances in football and still missed sitter after sitter.Watson also, but I never really pilloried either. Crouch and Fuller I was also supportive of, Fuller was terribly treated iIMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Just think about it for a minute! If Kelvin had put in the performances he is doing now, when he first arrived at the club, we would not be having this conversation. The fact that fans now are over joyed at having him in goal, after all the dross he has served up previously, is even more evidence that this is down to performance. Fans were quite right to be disappointed that we paid £1,25M for the worst goalie in Premier history who's confidence was so shot to pieces, that it has taken him until now to recover. The acceptance of the fans of Davies now, clearly show that it is only the performances that count, otherwise he would be doing a life sentence for previous crimes. Go back and look at Fuller, Wright, Davies and Euell and there is one consistent theme throughout. A player that continues to keep their place irrespective of how bad their performances are. This is the one thing that angers fans to boiling point. Everyone accepts players can have bad days, but few can accept continual selection irrespective of the bad performances. The same happened to Drew last season after his U21 call up, even though he managed to put in a lot of good performances previously.Worst keeper in PL history what an over the top statement!! The fans with players like Fuller Crouch ,KD and others think they knew best and crucified all of them without giving them a fair crack of the whip.You then get real dross like Hammil and he is untouchable because he came fro mLiverpool and did fancy steppovers.All show and no substance. Thankfully the managers with the exception of Fuller didnt listen to the wonderful judges from the boo boys and persevered, the club got the fruits of that. The professional judges stood by the players nad they could see they were good and so perhaps we should have our opinions but perhaps let the people whose jobs depend on the players make the calls.Yes have our views but perhaps let the players flourish under less pressure.We then would all be winners.I myself dont rate Pekhart at present but if Jan picks him I accept he sees him everyday and in the long term if he makes the wrong call it costs him his job, far more than you and I have at stake in our preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 I think it harsh to blame Kelvin for the late goals at QPR. The team were really knackered after fighting back from Dexter's early goal and being one player down. The whole team imploded at the end under QPR's massive, physical assault on the goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 (edited) Worst keeper in PL history what an over the top statement!! The fans with players like Fuller Crouch ,KD and others think they knew best and crucified all of them without giving them a fair crack of the whip.You then get real dross like Hammil and he is untouchable because he came fro mLiverpool and did fancy steppovers.All show and no substance. Thankfully the managers with the exception of Fuller didnt listen to the wonderful judges from the boo boys and persevered, the club got the fruits of that. The professional judges stood by the players nad they could see they were good and so perhaps we should have our opinions but perhaps let the people whose jobs depend on the players make the calls.Yes have our views but perhaps let the players flourish under less pressure.We then would all be winners.I myself dont rate Pekhart at present but if Jan picks him I accept he sees him everyday and in the long term if he makes the wrong call it costs him his job, far more than you and I have at stake in our preferences. Agreed, i'd go for Massimo Taibi. If wearing skin-tight tracksuit bottoms didn’t raise suspicion, then his catastrophic blunder at home to us was about to make him an instant legend. Going down to receive a powder-puff shot from Matt Le Tissier, Taibi – with enough time to go and make himself a Bruschetta Pomodoro – somehow managed to let the ball slip straight through his hands and gapping legs, with the ball trickling over the line at a speed that even a snail would be distraught with. If that wasn’t embarrassing enough, Taibi came straight out and blamed anything he possible could; his studs, the pitch, Jupiter’s position in relation to Uranus. It was all a bit too humiliating, not to mention painfully funny. Taibi had one last chance against Chelsea, but a 5-0 thrashing that including more schoolboy gaffe’s and even a Chris Sutton goal – his only other goal for Chelsea being against Hull - saw Taibi being sent back to Italy before you could say ‘Arrivederci!’ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtxmFGrDF8Q Edited 2 October, 2008 by Master Bates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 (edited) Completely agree. Criticising a player when they are poor and praising him when he plays well isn't fickle at all. The same as if Davis has a poor game on Saturday, I will say Davis was poor today. That doesn't make me fickle either, that's just pointing out what happens. Booing him if he made a howler at Coventry, THAT would be fickle. I also don't agree with nickh's theory thathe has been good all along, but we are only just figuring out that Bart is poor. In our playoff season, Davis was poor overall. Made some terrible errors, not to mention poor positioning and decision making when it came to collecting crosses and through balls. Bart was very good when given chance that season. I think it is a shame many on here seem to be writing him off after a couple of dodgy appearances, one over a year ago against Palace and one against Rotherham. Arizona yes I do believe he was fine when others didnt.The manager also felt he was doing well enough. As I have put to U&A the manager lives and dies by who he chooses and he and the goalkeeping coach didnt think Bart is/was good enough to replace KD. If you had seen Bart at Exeter as well as some of the other games you would wonder how he ever made pro football.These are my opinions, they are not chapter and verse but I do believe they are correct assessments. There's no science to it just differing judgements. Edited 2 October, 2008 by OldNick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 I think it harsh to blame Kelvin for the late goals at QPR. The team were really knackered after fighting back from Dexter's early goal and being one player down. The whole team imploded at the end under QPR's massive, physical assault on the goal.I think it was a season or so ago at SMS that the goal is being blamed on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 (edited) Agreed, i'd go for Massimo Taibi. If wearing skin-tight tracksuit bottoms didn’t raise suspicion, then his catastrophic blunder at home to us was about to make him an instant legend. Going down to receive a powder-puff shot from Matt Le Tissier, Taibi – with enough time to go and make himself a Bruschetta Pomodoro – somehow managed to let the ball slip straight through his hands and gapping legs, with the ball trickling over the line at a speed that even a snail would be distraught with. If that wasn’t embarrassing enough, Taibi came straight out and blamed anything he possible could; his studs, the pitch, Jupiter’s position in relation to Uranus. It was all a bit too humiliating, not to mention painfully funny. Taibi had one last chance against Chelsea, but a 5-0 thrashing that including more schoolboy gaffe’s and even a Chris Sutton goal – his only other goal for Chelsea being against Hull - saw Taibi being sent back to Italy before you could say ‘Arrivederci!’ MB he was poor, there would be many others who would be classed as worse than KelvinIMO.Although to be fair I didnt watch Sunderlands games and so cannot be sure.I did notice that they had an awful back 4 and so they may have been a reason as well. Edited 2 October, 2008 by OldNick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 It's all to do with form and confidence. When KD is in form and is playing with confidence he is up their with the best (in this division), when he is not he can be a liability. What I will say about KD is that his shot stopping, on the whole is excellent and his positional play is good. This was also true of Paul Jones (a keeper of similar ability IMO). But these are not the only aspects by which you judge a good keeper, in the modern era. His catching is not the greatest, his command of his area is not very good and his kicking is terrible. Because he is playing so well at the moment, these aspects are not so noticable but are still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheff Saint Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 I've slated him in the past. And i still don't think he's good enough for a promotion winning team. But he's made the gk spot the least of our problems this year by being head and shoulders better than last year. He seems to enjoy the responsibility of playing with the kids and long may that continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 It's all to do with form and confidence. When KD is in form and is playing with confidence he is up their with the best (in this division), when he is not he can be a liability. What I will say about KD is that his shot stopping, on the whole is excellent and his positional play is good. This was also true of Paul Jones (a keeper of similar ability IMO). But these are not the only aspects by which you judge a good keeper, in the modern era. His catching is not the greatest, his command of his area is not very good and his kicking is terrible. Because he is playing so well at the moment, these aspects are not so noticable but are still there.Kicking!! He can place a long pass better than our midfield and his throw out for BWP right into the pace of his run was brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkhamsted Saint Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 I think the attitude of the fans especially our home fans do little to help the team at times. Booing players, abuse, snide comments do nothing to help the players confidence and this will ultimately impact on their performance on the pitch. I know from a good source that Kelvin Davies used to hate coming out for the warm up at SMS because of the reaction of the crowd. How can that be good preparation for a game. Sure debate the pros and cons of a performance on TSW or in the pub but at the ground we should always get behind the team and the players no matter how bad they are. Now that Jermaine Wright has gone and Kelvin is in superb form who are some fans going to pick on now BWP, one of the youngsters like Lloyd James. I know that Kelvin was deeply moved by the reaction he got from the fans on Tuesday but he didnt deserve the way he was treated when he first came to the club. I have never understood the attitude some of our fans have towards the players and club but then I guess I never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Nothing to add to the debate but I will say that without Kelvins 2 brilliant saves minutes before our 2nd goal on tuesday we would never have won that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 I know that Kelvin was deeply moved by the reaction he got from the fans on Tuesday but he didnt deserve the way he was treated when he first came to the club. I have never understood the attitude some of our fans have towards the players and club but then I guess I never will.It was great that the ground form all sides sung his name.It does show that while we have a section of fans who moan, they are not too proud to forgive and show appreciation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Kicking!! He can place a long pass better than our midfield and his throw out for BWP right into the pace of his run was brilliant Says more about our midfield than our goalkeeper TBH. But no! At least 3 of his kicks at Donny went straight out of play. I do like the fact that he has started to throw the ball out now, which he is obviously being encouraged to do by the new management. He certainly never did it in previous seasons, which is another thing that used to infuriate me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 It was great that the ground form all sides sung his name.It does show that while we have a section of fans who moan, they are not too proud to forgive and show appreciationi thought he played well last season apart from a few games ,but at least he has the crowd behind him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 (edited) since the QPR debarcle he has been played well on a regular basis. He has improved his distribution a great deal as well as taking charge of his area much better. This is not just over the last few months though it has been going on for ages and there have been a few on these boards that have backed him since then. A pity it has taken so long for many to spot what he has offered the side. Its not so long ago (when Richard Wright was here) that there were muppets saying we would have gone down if he had continued to play. Absolute poppy ****. He was having a great season before the broken thumb and might even have got player of the season. Edited 2 October, 2008 by Chez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 are saints fans the most fickle in the league? Yes. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 I've slated him in the past. And i still don't think he's good enough for a promotion winning team. But he's made the gk spot the least of our problems this year by being head and shoulders better than last year. He seems to enjoy the responsibility of playing with the kids and long may that continue. Agree wholeheartedly. We're back to this thing where certain posters expect that, when a player or indeed the whole team plays well, that those criticising the performance of that player or indeed the whole team beforehand are somehow going to be upset. Get over it. I personally have never rated Davis. I think he's a good shot stopper, but keepers who are called that a lot are usually not very good at everything else. I would say that from the little I have seen of him this season that confidence is aiding those weak areas (coming for crosses, basic communication), and yes, he is playing well. Good. This pleases me. Long may it continue etc. Might be because he is given added authority in such a young team. But this juror is still out on his overall skills - why not just be happy he's playing well? I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Monkey Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Agree with this thread. People who criticised his sh*t performances last season should continue to do so now, inspite of his current good form. Opinions based on silly things like form is fickle. Kelvin is a c*nt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Yes. HTH Are you being facetious or do you actually beleive that? I don't read other club message boards, but I would think that fans of ALL clubs are like us to an extent. Anyone remember the Chelsea fans singing Mourniho's name last season after Avram Grant lost a couple of games, then he took them to the Champs League final? Then there were the Leeds fans who turned on Blackwell after a poor start to the season, just a few months after he had taken them to the playoff final on a limited budget. And don't even get me started on the barcodes... We are no better or worse than most other fans in Britain IMO. We've just had more ups and downs in the last few seasons than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Agree with this thread. People who criticised his sh*t performances last season should continue to do so now, inspite of his current good form. Opinions based on silly things like form is fickle. Kelvin is a c*nt. oh dear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Agree wholeheartedly. We're back to this thing where certain posters expect that, when a player or indeed the whole team plays well, that those criticising the performance of that player or indeed the whole team beforehand are somehow going to be upset. Get over it. I personally have never rated Davis. I think he's a good shot stopper, but keepers who are called that a lot are usually not very good at everything else. I would say that from the little I have seen of him this season that confidence is aiding those weak areas (coming for crosses, basic communication), and yes, he is playing well. Good. This pleases me. Long may it continue etc. Might be because he is given added authority in such a young team. But this juror is still out on his overall skills - why not just be happy he's playing well? I am. Agree with all of that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Are you being facetious or do you actually beleive that? Bit of both really. All football fans are as fickle as each other (myself include....although I'm not a 'real' fan of course). So, technically, yes....we have the most fickle fans in football but we are tied joint top with fans from all other clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOOTBALL CRAZY Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 Bit of both really. All football fans are as fickle as each other (myself include....although I'm not a 'real' fan of course). So, technically, yes....we have the most fickle fans in football but we are tied joint top with fans from all other clubs. Totally agree - all football fans are fickle. Have a look at the Norwich City Forum where they are slating Roeder. On another day -Sibierski's header or the one on ones with Kelvin could easily have lead to Saints not winning or even drawing and it would be doom and gloom on this site. There is a fine line(take the Blackpool game where Jamie White cost us the game- that is NOT a dig or a criticism, it is a fact). Support them all the time on the pitch but only judge them over a period of time, not just one game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowballs2 Posted 2 October, 2008 Share Posted 2 October, 2008 KD has settled down this season, he has played well from the start and would be the first name on my team sheet. Lets hope that he continues in the same form for the rest of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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