Redbul Posted 4 October, 2010 Share Posted 4 October, 2010 I was questioning the logic of this with a mate of mine who's a steward. He told me that everyone gets let out at the same time because if the away fans were kept in this would be a violation of their human rights. Whilst I can understand this to a certain degree, surely there must be a risk assessment done before each match that takes into account any police intelligence that has been gathered about the fixture and the potential of possible clashes and in which the health and safety of both sets of fans are taken into account. If there is the likelihood of something kicking off (other than the football match of course....) then isn't that reason enough to 'delay the departure' of the away fans? Discuss. One for DSM perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 4 October, 2010 Share Posted 4 October, 2010 Saints fans can't have human rights then because I remember being kept in loads of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 4 October, 2010 Share Posted 4 October, 2010 The police go out of their way to produce conditions in which trouble will occur. Happened with Pompey too. Grown men should be able to control themselves, but the Police want the trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 4 October, 2010 Share Posted 4 October, 2010 The police go out of their way to produce conditions in which trouble will occur. Happened with Pompey too. Grown men should be able to control themselves, but the Police want the trouble. This - so they can video it and catch up with the "offenders" later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted 4 October, 2010 Share Posted 4 October, 2010 So how the **** is us being kept in at Skate and Millwall every flippin' time we go there not a violation of OUR human rights!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanimal Posted 4 October, 2010 Share Posted 4 October, 2010 How long we were kept in that street after the 4-1 defeat? For our own safety, ha ha? Amounted to detention!! But Saturday was stupid, a flimsy barrier and Bumfluff 'fans' allowed to get near and goad, just lacked a bit of common imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 October, 2010 Share Posted 4 October, 2010 Change the rules to only allow sensible rational human beings into football games. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 4 October, 2010 Share Posted 4 October, 2010 "It's cos of them ooman rights innit mush". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didcot Saint Posted 4 October, 2010 Share Posted 4 October, 2010 To me it is common sense. The amount of time it takes to let the home crowd disperse after is nothing to the trouble it would prevent by making them wait 10 mins. If they want to gob off and throw coins at us all game then they should keep the tw... In for at least half hour after anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 4 October, 2010 Share Posted 4 October, 2010 I was thinking of a solution to this and I came to the conclusion that it is the sheer numbers of fans leaving at the same time that causes the trouble. Bearing in mind that keeping either set of fans in would be a violation of their human rights, I think I have the perfect solution: the police let one fan out at a time from each section, leaving 20 seconds between each fan. One Saints fan out, then one away fan, then one Saints, then one away, etc. This would also help ease the congestion on the bridge over the railway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 4 October, 2010 Share Posted 4 October, 2010 I have another idea. Fans would not see it as a violation of their human rights when the football is on, so we make the away team play for an extra ten minutes whilst the home fans disperse. The away fans won't notice that the stadium is half empty as they will be too immersed in watching their heroes on the pitch. Then, when the home fans have gone, the ref can blow the whistle and the away fans will then be ready to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1576 Posted 4 October, 2010 Share Posted 4 October, 2010 Be fun when we get let out the same time when next at Fratton then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian lord Posted 4 October, 2010 Share Posted 4 October, 2010 I was questioning the logic of this with a mate of mine who's a steward. He told me that everyone gets let out at the same time because if the away fans were kept in this would be a violation of their human rights. Whilst I can understand this to a certain degree, surely there must be a risk assessment done before each match that takes into account any police intelligence that has been gathered about the fixture and the potential of possible clashes and in which the health and safety of both sets of fans are taken into account. If there is the likelihood of something kicking off (other than the football match of course....) then isn't that reason enough to 'delay the departure' of the away fans? Discuss. One for DSM perhaps? Precisely what article of the Human Rights Act is violated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chi saint Posted 4 October, 2010 Share Posted 4 October, 2010 In respect of the European Convention on Human Rights the overriding right is that of Article 2 'the right to life' whilst of course it is unlikely to get that extreme when the fans meet outside this would be the over ridding principle and would mean they could dispense with all other 'rights' when the old bill risk assess any match so I am surprised were all let out together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landford.saint Posted 4 October, 2010 Share Posted 4 October, 2010 Surely by the same logic a home fans human rights are being violated by being potentally put in a situation where he may be put in danger. Secondly Sec 4 POA (public order act) makes it an offence to put someone in situation whereby an assault is likely to occur. By that definition the chief officer on the scene was committing an offence under Sec 4 POA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbul Posted 4 October, 2010 Author Share Posted 4 October, 2010 Precisely what article of the Human Rights Act is violated? I don't feckin' know!!! Where's DSM when you need him?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amesbury Saint Posted 4 October, 2010 Share Posted 4 October, 2010 I guess its a L1 team with L1 policing! The standard of policing has dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 4 October, 2010 Share Posted 4 October, 2010 I think the part of the Human rights act being violated will be article ? illegal inceration and imprisonment. Seems us saints should sue the police and clubs that detain us against our will . But we would get nothing from the skates as they have no money in the bank no money in the bank............................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted 4 October, 2010 Share Posted 4 October, 2010 Fans get locked in up and down the country and have done for yearsso PC Know it all is controlling the rules of Human Rights?? Is it a breach of my Human Rights i cant walk thru the car park??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 5 October, 2010 Share Posted 5 October, 2010 I was questioning the logic of this with a mate of mine who's a steward. He told me that everyone gets let out at the same time because if the away fans were kept in this would be a violation of their human rights. Whilst I can understand this to a certain degree, surely there must be a risk assessment done before each match that takes into account any police intelligence that has been gathered about the fixture and the potential of possible clashes and in which the health and safety of both sets of fans are taken into account. If there is the likelihood of something kicking off (other than the football match of course....) then isn't that reason enough to 'delay the departure' of the away fans? Discuss. One for DSM perhaps? This just goes to show how little stewards actually know, bless 'em. Please all remember this when someone posts one of those "a steward told me Ronaldo is about to sign for us" rumour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthamSteve Posted 5 October, 2010 Share Posted 5 October, 2010 (edited) Human Rights. That is a massive pile of ********. I can't belive that you would belive him, the stewards struggle with the rules in the ground let alone the details of the HRA. Edited 5 October, 2010 by NorthamSteve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Um Bongo Posted 5 October, 2010 Share Posted 5 October, 2010 Fans should be able to be let out at the same time without the risk of trouble. Blame the ****s who 'are up for it'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocco boxo Posted 5 October, 2010 Share Posted 5 October, 2010 Surely peoples safety must rule over Human rights on this issue? The Police do seem to thrive on the trouble and the chance to send people down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bourno Posted 5 October, 2010 Share Posted 5 October, 2010 I have another idea. Fans would not see it as a violation of their human rights when the football is on, so we make the away team play for an extra ten minutes whilst the home fans disperse. The away fans won't notice that the stadium is half empty as they will be too immersed in watching their heroes on the pitch. Then, when the home fans have gone, the ref can blow the whistle and the away fans will then be ready to leave. Saints fans have been trialing this for years. I am constantly amazed at the streams of fans who leave early!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesaint sfc Posted 5 October, 2010 Share Posted 5 October, 2010 The police go out of their way to produce conditions in which trouble will occur. Happened with Pompey too. Grown men should be able to control themselves, but the Police want the trouble. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 5 October, 2010 Share Posted 5 October, 2010 Surely peoples safety must rule over Human rights on this issue? The Police do seem to thrive on the trouble and the chance to send people down! The humans rights issue, is a complete fabrication and doesnt exist with regard to keeping fans in at football, if the police believe there is potential unrest, violence or risk to public safety, they can keep you in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
for_heaven's_Saint Posted 5 October, 2010 Share Posted 5 October, 2010 You might laugh but I've no doubt police want certain people to kick off when they're ready with their cameras. You do however have to be ridiculously stupid to do so when it is quite clear that the police are there waiting to gather evidence against you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diggers Posted 5 October, 2010 Share Posted 5 October, 2010 If it infringes human rights to pen away fans in the ground for a few minutes after a game, why doesn't the same policy exist when the Bill cordon away fans into an "escort" and march them up to the ground like sheep, even if they protest and wish to walk on their own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red robbo Posted 5 October, 2010 Share Posted 5 October, 2010 the police f****d it up yet again,fans are still being held back at games all over the country so thats the human rights thing shot.for a man in charge of football days with" 26 years experience at football" once again you were either incredibally nieve/stupid in letting everyone out together you just know what is going to happen...........or is that what you wanted to happen? hmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 5 October, 2010 Share Posted 5 October, 2010 I wonder if we'll be kept in at Dean Court later in the season, i'd imagine not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100%Red&White Posted 5 October, 2010 Share Posted 5 October, 2010 On South Today, Friday evening, they were talking to Mr Plod about Police arrangements to keep order at Saturday's match and he said they were "targetting Saints fans". If they had kept Dorset's-Zimmer-Mob, back there was little chance of confrontation and so no nawty faces for their cameras, so, IMO and like the skate game, this was an ideal opportunity to let a situation develop to take out their targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailOB Posted 5 October, 2010 Share Posted 5 October, 2010 There have been 2 'large' incidents involving fans inside 12 months. Both involving south coast ' rivals'. Due to the nature of the games, both fixtures hasd extra policing BUT police still thought it was OK to let fans out at same time. Quite bluntly, how ****ing stupid are the Police. Regardless of rights and wrongs of fans violence and how 'grown' men should know how to behave, its the innocents, young fans, families etc.., that get affected the most by incidents like these. If you have extra police because you 'expect' trouble then go the whole ****ing distance and make sure you limit interaction between rival fans as much as possible ! Holding fans back is common sense and should have nothing at all to do with human rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 5 October, 2010 Share Posted 5 October, 2010 Obviously Saints fans are not human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny R Posted 5 October, 2010 Share Posted 5 October, 2010 lol mongs If fans want to kick off they will. Even if say pompey were kept in for an hour after the game. Saints fans would still wait by the king alfred or gather by the KFC cross roads. I still cant believe mongs on here actually believe the police want this to kick off??? lol I bet you believe the moon landing was staged and that 9/11 was a government cover up aswell??? Obviously there would be people who are still 'up for it' as you say. However, holding the away fans in does give the police the chance to disperse the crowd and also gives fans a chance to calm down / rather than immediately facing their rivals straight after the final whistle. It definately helped us at Fratton in the 1-0 game as they were not able to get near to us, bearing in mind there were more people outside the ground waiting than inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbul Posted 5 October, 2010 Author Share Posted 5 October, 2010 Human Rights. That is a massive pile of ********. I can't belive that you would belive him, the stewards struggle with the rules in the ground let alone the details of the HRA. I didn't say I believed him but the explanation did have a modicum of credibility about it but with glaring (to me) inconsistencies, hence why I posted the thread in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denzil Posted 5 October, 2010 Share Posted 5 October, 2010 The filth want a bit of action so they can dish out a few more pathetic banning orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 5 October, 2010 Share Posted 5 October, 2010 I was questioning the logic of this with a mate of mine who's a steward. He told me that everyone gets let out at the same time because if the away fans were kept in this would be a violation of their human rights. As you suggest, I find it very hard to believe this is true as it could just as easily be claimed after conducting a formal risk assessment that there would be public safety issues associated with letting away fans out early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 5 October, 2010 Share Posted 5 October, 2010 Maybe the human rights thing doesn't apply if the Police are keeping you locked in for your own safety - that could explain why it was OK to lock us in for ages at Skatesville and Millwall. Whatever the reason the Police obviously have not been doing their job properly at both the Pompey and Bournemouth games. Locking them in would have stopped any of the trouble outside the Northam end. Football crowds tend to disperse quite quickly, any one seriously intent on violence will do it regardless away from the ground and the Police cameras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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