No Refund - Charlton Fiasco

[PinkScarf]

Been informed by Sarah Draper - Head of Ticket Office that there is to be NO REFUND for using the Official Saints Travel Coaches with the wasted day and fiasco surrounding the Charlton game which was called off 1 hour before the game was due to go ahead.

 

This is bad news for Saints Supporters. No one in their right mind is going to travel and see that game again when it is re-scheduled.

 

Between Charlton FC and Andy D'Urso they have made a right mess of it and it is the Saints Fans who have to pick up the tab.

[Deppo]

The club aren't responsible. They provided the service that you paid for.

[Ewell]

I don't think Charlton did a lot wrong to be honest so it is a bit unfair to blame them.

[Whitey Grandad]

Very disappointing, I'm sure, but the same goes for all the other brave souls that drove there. Who is going to refund them?

[Thedelldays]

did you use the coach at all..?

did the coach drive there..?

[PinkScarf]

Conditions were no different between 08:30 and 12:00 - so why not make an early call and save the Away Fans Travelling.

 

It was a fiasco plain and simple. Page 55 of the Echo today explains what the Football League have to say - Charlton didn't even inform Andy D'Urso that a precautionary pitch inspection had been made on the morning of the 24th December.

[scott_saints]

Why should you get a refund? You paid for the coach to get there and back, which I'm assuming still happened?

[Sour Mash]

I don't think Charlton did a lot wrong to be honest so it is a bit unfair to blame them.

 

They weren't able to get a pitch passed fit to play football on despite a lack of any severe weather at the time.

 

Combination of them and D'Urso = a complete f**k up! Only with something like football that fans can get treated like that and be told just to lump it.

[ladysaint]

I was surprised when you said that you were going to be refunded by the travel club, we wont get a refund on our minibus and dont expect to as others have said it wasnt anyone's else fault except D'urso who should reimburse us our travellling expenses. Lets all send our travel receipts to him and ask for compensation, wouldnt hold out any luck though.

[Smirking_Saint]

I don't think Charlton did a lot wrong to be honest so it is a bit unfair to blame them.

 

Sod of, its completely Charltons fault.

 

If the ref has called it off then surely the Charlton ground staff were well aware that potentially it could have been called off. It is their responsibility to ensure the pitch in its entirety is ready for the game.

 

Personally i think a small amount of blame should be at D'Urso's door however he has a duty to ensure the area is safe. It is up to Charlton to prepare it.

[up and away]

I don't think Charlton did a lot wrong to be honest so it is a bit unfair to blame them.

 

I think Charlton got it all wrong here. The FL have set up procedures such that instances like this need not / do not happen. If they have any doubts, they inform the FL and they send someone local to do an inspection early on the day of the game (or previous day). Charlton never used these procedures and took it off their own back, freely admitting the desperation to get the revenue in for this game. By the time D'Urso gets there, most of the damage is done to travelling fans and he's caught between a rock and a hard place in trying to see if this can be turned around.

 

Without getting into the rights and wrongs regarding the decision by D'Urso, all I would say is that it cannot have been totally clear cut, otherwise the game would have gone ahead. When you consider that all the other nearby teams called their games off, unless you were throwing resources at fixing the problem, you really had little chance. Charlton just crossed their fingers and said ****** to all those fans having to travel for a posponement.

[JRM]

I understand your frustration mate, but disagree with this bit " No one in their right mind is going to travel and see that game again when it is re-scheduled" - why not?

 

there are plenty of us who have lost out with Hartlepool and Walsall games being postponed having booked and paid for trains, as much as it frustrates me these things happen and I am still going to go to the re-arranged fixtures.

[Gemmel]

By the time this is rearranged, i have a funny feeling this game will be huge................. charlton or Saints battling it out for an automatic place

 

Dont worry about Saints fans not making the trip, we will be sold out.

[brmbrm]

Sod of, its completely Charltons fault.

 

If the ref has called it off then surely the Charlton ground staff were well aware that potentially it could have been called off. It is their responsibility to ensure the pitch in its entirety is ready for the game.

 

Personally i think a small amount of blame should be at D'Urso's door however he has a duty to ensure the area is safe. It is up to Charlton to prepare it.

 

Hang on, we've been trying to run this through the moronometer, but it just says "does not compute".

 

The pitch is either ready or fit or not or whatever, and THEN D'Urso makes his decision. He could have decided a long time before and that would solve a lot of problems. But he decides on what he sees in front of his fizzog.

 

So I suggest you itemise exactly why Charlton's gound staff got it wrong and (politely) tell them, since you clearly know a lot more about ground management that they do.

[fish fingers]

Been informed by Sarah Draper - Head of Ticket Office that there is to be NO REFUND for using the Official Saints Travel Coaches with the wasted day and fiasco surrounding the Charlton game which was called off 1 hour before the game was due to go ahead.

 

This is bad news for Saints Supporters. No one in their right mind is going to travel and see that game again when it is re-scheduled.

Between Charlton FC and Andy D'Urso they have made a right mess of it and it is the Saints Fans who have to pick up the tab.

 

Why not?

[sandwichsaint]

The forecast was for -5 to -6 overnight for the three preceding days. If charlton were serious about playing the game they should have got the pitch thawed out and kept it semi-thawed over those three days. This would have been perfectly do-able with a team of people, decent covers, more than one blower, and straw bales. Ad far as I can make out they didn't do any of those things! To the point that they seemed to be taken by surprise that the shaded areas were worse affected and that they were relying on the sun to go round to help thawing ! Durso gave them an extra 30 minutes and they still didn't get it right. 100percent CHarltons fault!!!!

[70's Mike]

I wonder if any of those slagging off those wanting a refund actually went to Charlton, or are they taking the moral high ground from behind their PC's as usual.

[krissyboy31]

I wonder if any of those slagging off those wanting a refund actually went to Charlton' date=' or are they taking the moral high ground from behind their PC's as usual.[/quote']

Don't think they're slagging off, just making some reasonable and valid points. There should however be some sort of slush fund that clubs (and maybe the referee's association) pay into. maybe an insurance policy, that allows them to refund supporters on these occasions.

[JRM]

I wonder if any of those slagging off those wanting a refund actually went to Charlton' date=' or are they taking the moral high ground from behind their PC's as usual.[/quote']

 

I went to charlton and i think it is unreasonable for people to expect the club to re-pay those on the travel club when there are thousands of other fans who made their own way there and wont get a refund for their travel. Saints would have paid the coach company, who provided the service.

Maybe Saints could do a gesture like in the past and offer subsidised coach travel for one of the northern away games, like Oldham or Hartlepool and those who feel agrieved to have missed out on Charlton could do one of those for a fiver?

[ladysaint]

Or reintroduce the away match voucher for free travel that you used to get with your ST's.

[Smirking_Saint]

Hang on, we've been trying to run this through the moronometer, but it just says "does not compute".

 

The pitch is either ready or fit or not or whatever, and THEN D'Urso makes his decision. He could have decided a long time before and that would solve a lot of problems. But he decides on what he sees in front of his fizzog.

 

So I suggest you itemise exactly why Charlton's gound staff got it wrong and (politely) tell them, since you clearly know a lot more about ground management that they do.

 

It is not D'Urso's job to ensure that the pitch is in playable condition which includes the outlying areas in which his officials will occupy, it is however his job to judge whether or not it is in suitable condition to ensure the safety of the players and staff.

 

He obviously decided it was not, i said that a small portion of the blame should lay at his door as it was called off very late but then i have no idea what times officials arrive at stadiums on match days, i would not imagine he was there hours and hours before and if he ways i would imagine he would have called it off earlier, if not he should have.

 

Of course it is Charltons fault, they would have inspected the pitch the day before and knew the forecast, they could have made a decision then but they didn't, instead they left it and made mistakes, in their defence a little it was probably touch and go in which case they should have called the FA and arranged an early inspection. They cocked up, the pitch was not ready for whatever reason. Perhaps 99% was ready, but D'Urso has not the authority to put it back anymore than 30mins or so.

 

How can you not see the point i am trying to make ?? Please pray tell what you don't understand in my post ?

[Thedelldays]

so..despite using the coach service to get to charlton..you want a refund..?

 

odd..

 

what next...a refund when saints lose..?

[SAFE_SAINT]

To be fair- Both clubs are not responsible for this- The coaches had to be paid for, fuel and drivers. Thus I do not think the travel club can be liable and not fair for them to pick up the tab- sorry

[SAFE_SAINT]

so..despite using the coach service to get to charlton..you want a refund..?

 

odd..

 

what next...a refund when saints lose..?

 

lol very funny! 100% agree!

[beatlesaint]

It is not D'Urso's job to ensure that the pitch is in playable condition which includes the outlying areas in which his officials will occupy, it is however his job to judge whether or not it is in suitable condition to ensure the safety of the players and staff.

 

He obviously decided it was not, i said that a small portion of the blame should lay at his door as it was called off very late but then i have no idea what times officials arrive at stadiums on match days, i would not imagine he was there hours and hours before and if he ways i would imagine he would have called it off earlier, if not he should have.

 

Of course it is Charltons fault, they would have inspected the pitch the day before and knew the forecast, they could have made a decision then but they didn't, instead they left it and made mistakes, in their defence a little it was probably touch and go in which case they should have called the FA and arranged an early inspection. They cocked up, the pitch was not ready for whatever reason. Perhaps 99% was ready, but D'Urso has not the authority to put it back anymore than 30mins or so.

 

Absolutely.

The far side was the problem area, the bit where the sun could not reach because of the stand.

Unless they have a magic roll in roll out construction my guess is the stand doesn't move.

Given that was there nobody at Charlton who couldnt have worked out that the area shaded from the sun and therefore icey would stay icey with temperatures not getting above zero and no sunshine on it to even give it a half a chance ?

 

Its not rocket science and could have saved 2500 Saints fans plus all their own supporters a wasted journey.

[Window Cleaner]

Absolutely.

The far side was the problem area, the bit where the sun could not reach because of the stand.

Unless they have a magic roll in roll out construction my guess is the stand doesn't move.

Given that was there nobody at Charlton who couldnt have worked out that the area shaded from the sun and therefore icey would stay icey with temperatures not getting above zero and no sunshine on it to even give it a ahlf a chance ?

 

Its not rocket science and could have saved 2500 Saints fans plus all their own supporters a wasted journey.

 

I don't doubt Charlton knew about all the problems but they were probably desperate for the revenue. The ref that looked at

the pitch on Friday had sort of given them a provisional green light so they went ahead.If it had been a game against Oldham

or Tranmere I'm sure they'd have postponed it earlier on.As I said the other day all these weather issues must be playing havoc with cash flow.1 home game a month won't pay many salaries,true the tickets are pre-paid in many cases but that's not everything.

[krissyboy31]

Absolutely.

The far side was the problem area, the bit where the sun could not reach because of the stand.

Unless they have a magic roll in roll out construction my guess is the stand doesn't move.

Given that was there nobody at Charlton who couldnt have worked out that the area shaded from the sun and therefore icey would stay icey with temperatures not getting above zero and no sunshine on it to even give it a half a chance ?

 

Its not rocket science and could have saved 2500 Saints fans plus all their own supporters a wasted journey.

Despite the groundsman, the 'local' referee, the two teams, Charlton's CEO and the two managers opinion that it was perfectly playable?

[Fan The Flames]

I wonder if any of those slagging off those wanting a refund actually went to Charlton' date=' or are they taking the moral high ground from behind their PC's as usual.[/quote']

 

Grow up, any sane peson can see that there is no chance of a refund for travel expenses. There has never been a refund of this sort given to any football fan, when you purchase a ticket for a winter event there is a chance that the weather may have an impact. The risk of the event is with the organiser and the risk of the travel is with the attendee and that's how it should be. You may be able to prove some sort of negligence with Charlton, but I doubt it and it will cost far more then the £20 it cost to get there.

 

So to actually think that you would get a travel refund from SFC is madness and to be upset by the refusal is frankly ludicrous. Yes I was there, but then I live in Kent.

[Colinjb]

so..despite using the coach service to get to charlton..you want a refund..?

 

odd..

 

what next...a refund when saints lose..?

 

Pretty much nailed it. No way any of those that made their own way could claim back their fuel/public bus tickets.

 

A crap situation for the 2500 souls that made the effort either way. Damn you D'Urso

[eelpie]

Calm down dears.

 

We'll beat them on the rearranged date anyway

[Griffo]

It's hardly far to go for the re-arranged fixture anyway.

[Draino76]

I blame Charlton. Charlton owe me £100. However I will will call it quits in exchange for 3 points from the Valley.

 

Sort your s h i t out you f u c k i n g dougnuts.

[knellster]

It's safe to say that d'Urso would not have called the game off lightly as he will miss out on at least 50% of his match fee.

 

My suspicion is that Charlton were desperate to get the game on so didn't make any attempt to get it called off early in the hope that the referee would feel pressured to play the game with fans already arriving. The fact that he still called it off shows how certain he was that one area was not safe. It's all well and good pointing out that both teams wanted to play, but they don't care about the physical wellbeing of an assistant referee - although they would no doubt soon be complaining if he missed an offside because he couldn't run properly on a dangerous surface. I'm afraid that the fault is 100% Charlton's.

[Smirking_Saint]

It's safe to say that d'Urso would not have called the game off lightly as he will miss out on at least 50% of his match fee.

 

My suspicion is that Charlton were desperate to get the game on so didn't make any attempt to get it called off early in the hope that the referee would feel pressured to play the game with fans already arriving. The fact that he still called it off shows how certain he was that one area was not safe. It's all well and good pointing out that both teams wanted to play, but they don't care about the physical wellbeing of an assistant referee - although they would no doubt soon be complaining if he missed an offside because he couldn't run properly on a dangerous surface. I'm afraid that the fault is 100% Charlton's.

 

Nailed on.

 

I also thought about the financial situation, what is the situation down there at the valley ?? I know earlier on in the season they were quite desperate.

[um pahars]

Nailed on.

 

I also thought about the financial situation, what is the situation down there at the valley ?? I know earlier on in the season they were quite desperate.

 

Think they're still pretty desperate despite some financial wheeling and dealing going on. Was sure Murray was on the verge of selling up to a Varney (the ex CEO) consortium, but it hasn't gone through yet (I think there might be some issue with just who is in his consortium).

[Thedelldays]

Think they're still pretty desperate despite some financial wheeling and dealing going on. Was sure Murray was on the verge of selling up to a Varney (the ex CEO) consortium, but it hasn't gone through yet (I think there might be some issue with just who is in his consortium).

 

its a done deal..

charlton have been saved

[Smirking_Saint]

Think they're still pretty desperate despite some financial wheeling and dealing going on. Was sure Murray was on the verge of selling up to a Varney (the ex CEO) consortium, but it hasn't gone through yet (I think there might be some issue with just who is in his consortium).

 

May have been a major part of things then, the boxing day fixtures at clubs are also pretty big money spinners traditionally. I don't know if they had any games called off previously ?? If they had a couple of games called off then with no income coming in things may have got a little sticky down the valley.

[Big John]

Did the coaches simply turn back? Maybe they should have diverted to Chessington to keep the kiddies amused and prevent throwing of toys from prams. ;-)

 

I bet that day's takings for the coach company were welcome and the ot for the drivers and they get to knock off early...every cloud has a silver lining eh.

[Nexstar]

Esso refused to give me a refund on the petrol I bought for the Charlton trip.

[Window Cleaner]

Esso refused to give me a refund on the petrol I bought for the Charlton trip.

 

Bastards, perhaps we should all boycott them then.

[Dr Who?]

You never get refunded if the service that you have been offered has been carried out. If you travelled by train you would not get it back and it is the same for Saints travel club. They have to pay to get you there andd back, so why should they be out of pocket. You find this much more in cricket and only need a certain amount of overs to not see any of your admission fee again.

 

You can get your money back on the ticket though, to cover the travel expenses.

 

It is just one of those things, and I am sure many will travel to watch Saints. I have travelled to Newcastle and it has been called off and I went to the reschuded date.

[Kingsland Nick]

It depends what the service is.

If you book your flight and hotel separately when you go on holiday and the flight is on time but there are major problems with the hotel that ruin your holiday, you can't get a refund from the airline. If you buy a package holiday your refund could include the cost of the flight even though the flight was OK if the holiday was completely ruined.

If you buy the Saints Travel at the same time as the match ticket, there is an argument that you are buying a package of a ticket to the game and travel to the game. If there is no game, then logically you cannot have been provided with travel to the game. If you travel by train (tricky on Boxing Day), SWT fulfil their part of the contract by getting you to Charlton and back so obviously there casn be no compensation.

Of course the Club will have protected themselves in the Terms and Conditions, so any rights will have been waived.

It could be worse - apparently a rugby club in the northeast is refusing to refund the cost of match tickets to fans who can't make the new date. Instead the fans can get tickets to another home game, which is not much use to away fans who bought tickets from the home club (which is normal as there is no segregation). Having to miss the new date because you are in Afghanistan is apparently no excuse.

[Ewell]

May I suggest a few thicko's get some facts right! D'urso is to blame no one else.

 

Charlton managing director Stephen Kavanagh said Charlton’s pitch would have been playable had it not been for the actions of referee Andy D’Urso.

 

The fuming Addicks official claimed that D’Urso told him he was concerned about one touchline where the linesman would be running down so his ground staff moved their warm air blower from the opposite corner of the ground.

 

When D’Urso came out for his final pitch inspection at midday he headed straight for the area where the blower had been moved from and didn’t look at what he had previously said was his area of concern.

 

A furious Kavanagh said: “With the players being here, the fans coming along and the effort of the fans, the staff, the groundsman is phenomenal.

 

“In my opinion that was playable. I’m not a referee and the referee has to have concerns about the players’ fitness but both managers came to me afterwards and said ‘can we train on the pitch now?’ “To me that says both managers and the players are happy to play on that.

 

“There was one area of the pitch he’s called it off on. Ten minutes before that we had a blower on that area of the pitch but he said he had a concern about the other touchline so naturally we took the blower away to work on the other touchline.

 

“He came out, ignored the touchline we were working on that he was concerned with and went straight to the area of the ground where the blower had been working and called it off on that area.

 

“I’m sorry but I’m disappointed for all the fans, both teams, the staff and all the supporters who came there to try and get this game on.

 

“In everyone’s view apart from the referee that was playable and I don’t understand why we’ve not played.”

 

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/8758349.Charlton_chief_fuming_at_Saints_call_off/

 

NIGEL Adkins admitted he was shocked when he heard Andy D’Urso had called Saints’ match at Charlton off.

 

The controversial decision left fans, players and staff from both clubs dumbstruck and angered.

 

Adkins said that he had been told yesterday morning that the game was going ahead.

 

And, after the referee’s 11.30am pitch inspection, he was practically certain the match would be on.

 

But, having then prepared his players for kick-off, the Saints boss was stunned to hear an announcement just after midday play would not go ahead.

 

“As we got on the bus this morning we got a message through to say that the ref was going to have a pitch inspection at half eleven,” recalled Adkins.

 

“We’ve arrived and we came on the pitch as a team, and we were happy to play, we were back in the dressing room and changed and ready to go basically.

 

“Me and (Charlton manager) Phil Parkinson both spoke to the referee, and the only concern he was showing was where the linesman runs up and down, but everyone was very confident that it would be sorted out and cleared.

 

“We got the lads in the changing rooms, kit on and game heads on and then we had the shout that he was going to put the kick off back fifteen minutes and have another inspection at 12pm.

 

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/8758577.Adkins_stunned_by_match_postponement/

[John B]

May I suggest a few thicko's get some facts right! D'urso is to blame no one else.

 

 

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/8758349.Charlton_chief_fuming_at_Saints_call_off/

 

 

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/8758577.Adkins_stunned_by_match_postponement/

Perhaps the Ref thought the conditions were not good

 

I doubt whether he did it for any other reason

[gaz]

May I suggest a few thicko's get some facts right! D'urso is to blame no one else.

 

''“Me and (Charlton manager) Phil Parkinson both spoke to the referee, and the only concern he was showing was where the linesman runs up and down, but everyone was very confident that it would be sorted out and cleared. ''

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/8758577.Adkins_stunned_by_match_postponement/

 

 

 

By who?

[PinkScarf]

Although not legally required to - the Saints Fans would appreciate a gesture by the Club with regard to Away travel after the Charlton fiasco.

[Saint Fan CaM]

It's safe to say that d'Urso would not have called the game off lightly as he will miss out on at least 50% of his match fee.

 

My suspicion is that Charlton were desperate to get the game on so didn't make any attempt to get it called off early in the hope that the referee would feel pressured to play the game with fans already arriving. The fact that he still called it off shows how certain he was that one area was not safe. It's all well and good pointing out that both teams wanted to play, but they don't care about the physical wellbeing of an assistant referee - although they would no doubt soon be complaining if he missed an offside because he couldn't run properly on a dangerous surface. I'm afraid that the fault is 100% Charlton's.

 

 

You've got it in a nutshell there.

[Legod Third Coming]

its a done deal..

charlton have been saved

 

Wouln't count their chickens just yet DD. I'm not convinved that consortium of Himinez and Varney and co has any more cash behind them than Murray... It could well be a case of Crouch and Wilde over Lowe... Time well tell, but don't expect to see any big money deals any time soon. (And despite our sparring Happy New Year matey, all the best to our armed forces is my motto)