There when Franny scored Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 Davis has been an excellent and very loyal servant to the club during very turbulent years but it is becoming increasingly apparent that Bialkowski is now the better keeper. There is a total absence of communication between goalkeeper and defence and the centre backs are constantly put under a huge amount of pressure given that they are sometimes forced to head clear from their own six-yard box where Davies should be dominating. He is still a superb shot-stopper; I was at Hillsborough earlier this season and he made two outstanding saves at the end to give us the three points. This is not an anti-Davis rant, merely and observation, though I'm aware that it seems to be forbidden to dare criticise him among Saints fans. Bart must now be first choice if we really are to move on to 'the next level'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 I agree. Time to give him a go again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huffton Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 (edited) Here we go again... 6, yes SIX managers, who see both players every day of the week, have put Davis in front of Bart. I think there could be a reason for that. Edited 22 January, 2011 by Huffton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpsaint Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 Davis has been an excellent and very loyal servant to the club during very turbulent years but it is becoming increasingly apparent that Bialkowski is now the better keeper. There is a total absence of communication between goalkeeper and defence and the centre backs are constantly put under a huge amount of pressure given that they are sometimes forced to head clear from their own six-yard box where Davies should be dominating. He is still a superb shot-stopper; I was at Hillsborough earlier this season and he made two outstanding saves at the end to give us the three points. This is not an anti-Davis rant, merely and observation, though I'm aware that it seems to be forbidden to dare criticise him among Saints fans. Bart must now be first choice if we really are to move on to 'the next level'. How so? He's done alright yes but can't say myself thats its increasingly apparent/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 manager ex-keeper, should be good judge as to who is best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 Not this ****-for-brains crap again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asaint4ever Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 +1 give the lad a go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 We lost a game, so let's replace player x with player y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartarus112 Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 Here we go again... 6, yes SIX managers, who see both players every day of the week, have put Davis in front of Bart. I think there could be a reason for that. Bart was our number one before he got injured for a long time. He's also out longest serving player. Deserves a chance. Can hardly say those 6 managers have been the most competent having led us from top 6 championship to league 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrhsaint Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 this ia probably the most sensible post on this thread so far!!!Bart was our number one before he got injured for a long time. He's also out longest serving player. Deserves a chance. Can hardly say those 6 managers have been the most competent having led us from top 6 championship to league 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thornhill_saints Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 What a load of TOSS...... We should be winning games like this, but the same old same old, as last season!. can no manager teach these muppets how to play against a team with a sh*t pitch and defend for there survival...... at the end of the day the better team won, closing down, good game plan, and it worked.... one eye on the cup???? I think so, everyone wants to perform for the cameras..... having a nice courvoisier now... enough said about this bunch of no hopers.... we will make the play off's max! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 Here we go again... 6, yes SIX managers, who see both players every day of the week, have put Davis in front of Bart. I think there could be a reason for that. One of those managers put Richard Wright ahead of both of them, and I think we'd all agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 Time to give him a go, If not bring in a good all rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huffton Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 Absolutely. But thats the same as saying we would put Iker Cassillas in front of both of them. He isn't available to us either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 I wouldn't drop any individuals, the problem is the whole ****ing team thinking they're something special and not working hard enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabel Healey Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 Yes, and I've watched approx 60+ games, where fifty per cent of them, Davis has NOT come off his line for straightforward catches-----------and I'm not the only person that thinks this. He hates crosses, and coming for catches !! Here we go again... 6, yes SIX managers, who see both players every day of the week, have put Davis in front of Bart. I think there could be a reason for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 Two soft goals scored against us, again the goalkeeper didn't take command for the first and let himself be lobbed from 35 yds for the second. We won't win leagues without a proper goalkeeper rather than the world's best shotstopper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkScarf Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 IMO Playing Bart in Away Games where Saints struggle (apart from Oldham) must be worth a go. Saints have more Away Games than Home Games to play and could start sliding in the Table fighting for a Play Off position. Davis has made errors in the Brentford and Tranmere Game - but did well saving the penalty vs Brighton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huffton Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 Yes, and I've watched approx 60+ games, where fifty per cent of them, Davis has NOT come off his line for straightforward catches-----------and I'm not the only person that thinks this. He hates crosses, and coming for catches !! So you missed Bart dropping one right under his bar the other week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefoggy Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 Bart = great keeper always rated him his time has come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Strover Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 I suggest keeping these posts when 'where's Bart' starts playing regulalry (if you can remember that photograph - I do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkScarf Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 Why not give Bart the ultimate test and play him against Man Utd in the FA Cup game next week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 So you missed Bart dropping one right under his bar the other week? You are being disingenous, the two crosses he didn't get were hit deep with pace outside the back post and for one he made a big attempt and stopped the attacker outside the back post getting near even though he didn't get there and Davis wouldn't have even moved. Bialkowski also caught everything else in the six yd box, pushed the defence outside the goal area, made one blinder of a save and caught two low down shots. He had a good game even if his long kicks are not as good as Davis. Davis is a good shotstopper but is prone to letting balls bounce back off him which have often been netted, also pushing balls back out to inrushing forwards. He certainly wouldn't have come off his line to catch the crosses that Bialkowski caught. Davis has also dropped more than his share of crosses even though unchallenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 He can't kick for **** and he flaps at half the balls he comes for. I'm talking about Bart, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 Yes, and I've watched approx 60+ games, where fifty per cent of them, Davis has NOT come off his line for straightforward catches-----------and I'm not the only person that thinks this. He hates crosses, and coming for catches !! he came out and safely collected several in the game against Notts county. Compare that with Bart in the game against Blackpool where he flapped at the two he came for. Coming for crosses certainly is not Kelvins strong point, but is it Barts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Strover Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 You are being disingenous, the two crosses he didn't get were hit deep with pace outside the back post and for one he made a big attempt and stopped the attacker outside the back post getting near even though he didn't get there and Davis wouldn't have even moved. You are wear Bart-Tinted spectacles. The first one shown on TV, so plenty of time to replay it over and over again, was a nice floaty, plenty of time to judge the flight and make your mind up type cross. Bart fudged it simple as that. Basically we should sack 'em both and get in that League One keeper who plucks crosses out of the air like they were grapes off a vine and is also a brilliant passer of the ball, a fantastic shot-stopper and wonderful at one-on-ones. You can see them every week on the League One highlights, actually scratch that, you can these keepers every week on any of the division highlights. Let me know when you've got him 'cause I will pay a lot of money to come and watch him every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 You are wear Bart-Tinted spectacles. The first one shown on TV, so plenty of time to replay it over and over again, was a nice floaty, plenty of time to judge the flight and make your mind up type cross. Bart fudged it simple as that. Basically we should sack 'em both and get in that League One keeper who plucks crosses out of the air like they were grapes off a vine and is also a brilliant passer of the ball, a fantastic shot-stopper and wonderful at one-on-ones. You can see them every week on the League One highlights, actually scratch that, you can these keepers every week on any of the division highlights. Let me know when you've got him 'cause I will pay a lot of money to come and watch him every week. a ****ing men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimond Geezer Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 :lol: Good plan! In the 16 league games we've played since the start of October, our defence, who it would appear are unhappy & unconfident when playing in front of our calamitous keeper, have conceded massive 14 goals. Fonte, Jiadi, Harding et al must be sh!tting bricks when they see Kelvins name on the team sheet. So, in this push for promotion, when we need a few experienced heads, who do we replace him with, a largely untried keeper, whose distribution is worse (although admittedly quicker), who misjudges crosses, (there's nothing worse than a gk coming & missing a cross), and who managed to get injured, at least twice due to his misjudgement, first in the Newcastle match when he did his knee & in the Cheltenham match when he was hesitant about coming out and claiming the ball and got clattered by Fonte. KD is a top keeper, alright he may be a little slow getting the ball back into play, but his kicking is more accurate than Barts, he often comes out of his area to effect a clearence, and with the exception of QPR (I think) has never made a mess of it. As for his inability on crosses - god knows where that particular urban myth has originated. One day Bart will be our keeper, but he's not ready yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 :lol: Good plan! In the 16 league games we've played since the start of October, our defence, who it would appear are unhappy & unconfident when playing in front of our calamitous keeper, have conceded massive 14 goals. Fonte, Jiadi, Harding et al must be sh!tting bricks when they see Kelvins name on the team sheet. So, in this push for promotion, when we need a few experienced heads, who do we replace him with, a largely untried keeper, whose distribution is worse (although admittedly quicker), who misjudges crosses, (there's nothing worse than a gk coming & missing a cross), and who managed to get injured, at least twice due to his misjudgement, first in the Newcastle match when he did his knee & in the Cheltenham match when he was hesitant about coming out and claiming the ball and got clattered by Fonte. KD is a top keeper, alright he may be a little slow getting the ball back into play, but his kicking is more accurate than Barts, he often comes out of his area to effect a clearence, and with the exception of QPR (I think) has never made a mess of it. As for his inability on crosses - god knows where that particular urban myth has originated. One day Bart will be our keeper, but he's not ready yet. Hallelujah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom28 Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 Difficult one tbh. Second best defence in the league says that he can't be doing that badly in goal. However, KD definitely does not inspire confidence in me. His decision making is poor too often. His kicking can be dreadful. However to his credit, his shot stopping is Premier League standard. As for Bart, there are definitely flaws there as well. I think it's one of those similar to American Football where if the starting QB has a bad game or two, suddenly the backup QB is the most popular guy in town. Whether he has more ability is a different thing. I think I would stick with KD. He's been loyal to us, and I think we should show him the same back, and sing his name louder than ever next week. Bart's time will come, but KD has earned our loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 Why not give Bart the ultimate test and play him against Man Utd in the FA Cup game next week Perhaps we don't want to be in a position at half time where the Mancs effectively "declare". My view on the GK situation is that KD has been a good servant,and we need the cheque book to replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 Regardless of whether Bart or Kelvin are in goal for the rest of the season, I hope to see a new number 1 brought into the club next summer anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickyhale Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 (edited) Here we go again... 6, yes SIX managers, who see both players every day of the week, have put Davis in front of Bart. I think there could be a reason for that. Just back home from the game and Davis was beat easy today (for the second) the first was a real cock up between Davis and Fonte after that game would not be surprised to see Bart give a run in goal. Still 3 times I been too this ground and 3 loses still COYR Edited 22 January, 2011 by dickyhale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Shango Posted 22 January, 2011 Share Posted 22 January, 2011 Here we go again... 6, yes SIX managers, who see both players every day of the week, have put Davis in front of Bart. I think there could be a reason for that. Here we go again... 6, yes SIX managers, who see both players every day of the week, have put Davis in front of Bart. I think there could be a reason for that. Agreed. He's not been first choice under all those different managers for nothing. Yes he makes the odd mistake every now and then, but lets not forget all the other times he's saved us, like at Sheffield Wednesday this season, and the penalty save against Brighton. He plays a lot more games than Bart so it's pretty obvious you're going to see more mistakes from him. Bart's played two games this season, one he had nothing to do in a low pressure cup game against Cheltenham, and the other he probably only made one major save (albeit a very good one) all game. Put him in all season and I'm sure he'd make mistakes like Kelvin did today as well. Bart might well be ready in the future, but right now I'd stick with Kelvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 23 January, 2011 Share Posted 23 January, 2011 Richard Wright is the best keeper i have seen play for Saints in recent years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 23 January, 2011 Share Posted 23 January, 2011 Just seen the first goal on TV, Kelvin should be dropped. He could have smoked a cigar and come out and caught that. I'm fed up with watching Kelvin rooted to his line as the ball drops in the 6 yard box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 23 January, 2011 Share Posted 23 January, 2011 Just seen the first goal on TV, Kelvin should be dropped. He could have smoked a cigar and come out and caught that. I'm fed up with watching Kelvin rooted to his line as the ball drops in the 6 yard box. was at the game and i was just speechless when he didn't come for that. I'm torn between the two keepers. I think we can still win the league with either of them to be honest. I am looking forward to seeing Bart as our number one though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulwantsapint Posted 23 January, 2011 Share Posted 23 January, 2011 If the other 11 players had scored 4 goals yesterday would it have mattered that KD made a mistake or 2 ? only difference between outfield mistakes is they have others to sort out mistakes & KD to save them/ push round woodwork Adkins has got a massive decision over the GK keep KD, give BB a go or replace with new GK not TF But in defence of both KD & BB top prem clubs arsenal, spurs, chelsea are all questioning their GKs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windmill Arm 2 Posted 23 January, 2011 Share Posted 23 January, 2011 What a load of TOSS...... We should be winning games like this, but the same old same old, as last season!. can no manager teach these muppets how to play against a team with a sh*t pitch and defend for there survival...... at the end of the day the better team won, closing down, good game plan, and it worked.... one eye on the cup???? I think so, everyone wants to perform for the cameras..... having a nice courvoisier now... enough said about this bunch of no hopers.... we will make the play off's max! Out come the hysterical morons again, how depressingly predictable. WHO HONESTLY BELIEVED WE WOULD GO ALL SEASON WITHOUT LOSING A GAME!!?? BRIGHTON LOST AS WELL YOU CLUELESS KNEE JERKING TOSSERS !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windmill Arm 2 Posted 23 January, 2011 Share Posted 23 January, 2011 If the other 11 players had scored 4 goals yesterday would it have mattered that KD made a mistake or 2 ? only difference between outfield mistakes is they have others to sort out mistakes & KD to save them/ push round woodwork Adkins has got a massive decision over the GK keep KD, give BB a go or replace with new GK not TF But in defence of both KD & BB top prem clubs arsenal, spurs, chelsea are all questioning their GKsDoes he have a massive decision to make? really? I doubt Adkins see's it that way, does anyone on this pathetic forum realise that our manager was a goalkeeper FFS !!!???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintscottofthenortham Posted 23 January, 2011 Share Posted 23 January, 2011 Kelv drives me nuts week in week out with his horrendous distribution, his inabilty to dominate his area and his lack of communication (which by the sounds of it was a major part of yesterdays opener). However, he is our best keeper and has shown on so many occasions this season why he has remained our number one. Notts County last week would have been a loss if it wasn't for 2 top drawer saves from Super Kelv and think back to the Hudders game, he made a superb save at 0-1 and at 1-1 which gave us the platform to go on and win 4-1. By all accounts none of the players were at the races yesterday and as I can appreciate, a keeper can only be as good as what's in front of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidthesquid Posted 23 January, 2011 Share Posted 23 January, 2011 Davis is like Paul Jones was, and we only saw his limitations clearly after we signed Niemi. Both Davis and Jones are amongst the best shot-stoppers I have ever seen in any team, but both had the same fatal flaw - an inability to claim crosses in the penalty area. The best keepers (not even the great ones) dominate their area and would expect to claim everything inside the penalty spot. Kelvin won't even come for crosses inside the six-yard box. It makes the team defend deeper in open play and it keeps the pressure on for set plays. As soon as the keeper has it in his hands the pressure is off. And, though he doesn't always fill me with confidence, that generally is an area where Bart has been better. Kelvin is unlikely to change now, but I have long thought that this weakness offsets many of his great saves, and why , I suppose, he is in league one, not the Prem. It's a tough call, but decision time is getting nearer, I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huffton Posted 23 January, 2011 Share Posted 23 January, 2011 6 managers and endless losses, sackings, relegation and financial crisis. I'm not surprised most didn't turn to a young I experienced keeper in the circumstances. Also, you're saying the opinions of managers like burley, poortvliet, wotte are worthwhile? Because people didn't rate them much. Like him or not Burley very nearly got us promoted, so yes, I would say his judgement at that time was worthwhile. Thw two Dutch fools, well I'll give you that one, but even then they still have more coaching badges/experience than all the members of this board put together. Another more important also, what was the first thing niggle pearson did? Sign Richard wright, who was outstanding for us. Now I would have loved for us to have kept RW, easily the best keeper we have had since Niemi, however IIRC he was signed byBurley as a emergency cover because both KD and BB were out injured. One of Pearsons quotes was 'all the while he was at the club KD would be captain'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 23 January, 2011 Share Posted 23 January, 2011 Kelv drives me nuts week in week out with his horrendous distribution, his inabilty to dominate his area and his lack of communication (which by the sounds of it was a major part of yesterdays opener). However, he is our best keeper and has shown on so many occasions this season why he has remained our number one. Notts County last week would have been a loss if it wasn't for 2 top drawer saves from Super Kelv and think back to the Hudders game, he made a superb save at 0-1 and at 1-1 which gave us the platform to go on and win 4-1. By all accounts none of the players were at the races yesterday and as I can appreciate, a keeper can only be as good as what's in front of him. Why on earth do people say this? It is so clearly untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 23 January, 2011 Share Posted 23 January, 2011 Davis is like Paul Jones was, and we only saw his limitations clearly after we signed Niemi. Both Davis and Jones are amongst the best shot-stoppers I have ever seen in any team, but both had the same fatal flaw - an inability to claim crosses in the penalty area. The best keepers (not even the great ones) dominate their area and would expect to claim everything inside the penalty spot. Kelvin won't even come for crosses inside the six-yard box. It makes the team defend deeper in open play and it keeps the pressure on for set plays. As soon as the keeper has it in his hands the pressure is off. And, though he doesn't always fill me with confidence, that generally is an area where Bart has been better. Kelvin is unlikely to change now, but I have long thought that this weakness offsets many of his great saves, and why , I suppose, he is in league one, not the Prem. It's a tough call, but decision time is getting nearer, I feel. Davis is far better than Jones on the deck though and, being in the third tier, there is virtually next to no chance of signing anyone even remotely as good as Niemi. As for this worry about crosses: it might be more of an issue if we were constantly under the cosh but seeing as we dominate most of the matches we play in it's hardly a concern. In fact, KD's ability to do jack-**** all match and then pull off a world class save in the 80th minute probably makes him our ideal keeper right now. Look at our defensive record recently; it's very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouchi Posted 23 January, 2011 Share Posted 23 January, 2011 Neither look good enough for the top flight, but that applies to most of our players, although some should get a chance if we ever progress back up the divisions. Kelvin was a disaster in his first 2 seasons. All the Sunderland fans laughed when we bought 'comedy Kelvin' and we certainly witnessed unforced howlers, followed by a total loss of confidence. However, he has been consistently good over the last few seasons, and Bart has never put enough pressure on to replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 23 January, 2011 Share Posted 23 January, 2011 Why on earth do people say this? It is so clearly untrue. His kicking leaves something to be desired and whilst when he throws the ball out I wouldn't describe it as "horrendous" it is often ponderous or just too bloody slow and the moment to set up a counter attack disappears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 23 January, 2011 Share Posted 23 January, 2011 His kicking leaves something to be desired and whilst when he throws the ball out I wouldn't describe it as "horrendous" it is often ponderous or just too bloody slow and the moment to set up a counter attack disappears. His kicking is very accurate. Anyone who criticises Davis' kicking doesn't deserve to be taken seriously, especially if they are advocating playing Bart instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 23 January, 2011 Share Posted 23 January, 2011 I feel like a bit of a budgie posting this, but it is ****ing funny: [video=youtube;h14Pdm-JuDk] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 23 January, 2011 Share Posted 23 January, 2011 Spain scored from the free-kick, by the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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