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Being priced out of football


dune

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Talking to fans I know a lot are now not going to games/have reduced the number of games they attend, because of the costs involved. With fuel prices now at unprecendented levels and clubs charging exorbitant amounts for tickets to pay for obscene player wages the future of the game is not looking rosy.

 

Whilst big clubs like Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea have the fanbases to fill the gaps left by fans that stop going, other clubs in the tiers below will struggle to sell their capacities - the rot has already set in particularly in the North.

 

Personally I think dwindling attendances are a good thing as this will force clubs to reign in the greed, and i'm hopeful that they will become noticeably smaller next season as reports suggest they will. Saints will buck the trend whilst we are rising in my opinion, but in the medium term I don't think we will.

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Football at it's highest level has become gentrified,you only have to look at all the grannying about getting the same seat for every game and the zeal over season ticket renewals to see that. Top flight football has become a middle class affair and

a sort of social status statement.I used to like standing on the terraces, never worrying about planning everything in advance,

just turn up after the pub,pay your money and pass an agreeable couple of hours with your friends or whoever else happened to be around you in the Milton for that matter.Away games were often decided in much the same fashion, if a few fancied it in the pub on a Friday evening, well then you all piled into the car (or onto the train) of a Saturday and off you went.

Now clubs want to sell tickets all of the time and impose surcharges on those who don't want to go down that road all the spontaineity has gone from the game as well.

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Whilst full stadiums certainly are part of the overall package,at premiership level the sky subscriptions are far more important to clubs

than the gate receipts.

 

Even for the worst teams in the EPL the Sky dole is about 1 million £ a game isn't it?

Let's you pay 20 or so mediocre players about 40K a week without taxing your gate receipts.

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Football at it's highest level has become gentrified,you only have to look at all the grannying about getting the same seat for every game and the zeal over season ticket renewals to see that. Top flight football has become a middle class affair and

a sort of social status statement.I used to like standing on the terraces, never worrying about planning everything in advance,

just turn up after the pub,pay your money and pass an agreeable couple of hours with your friends or whoever else happened to be around you in the Milton for that matter.Away games were often decided in much the same fashion, if a few fancied it in the pub on a Friday evening, well then you all piled into the car (or onto the train) of a Saturday and off you went.

Now clubs want to sell tickets all of the time and impose surcharges on those who don't want to go down that road all the spontaineity has gone from the game as well.

 

I still do. I was p!ssed off my face in the early hours of Saturday and decided to go to the Carlisle game last season. Jumped out of bed, grabbed my Red Stripe shirt and a clean pair of Y-fronts and got myself down to Brighton station for the 04:05 train to London. Return ticket to Carlisle cost me £195. Hotel cost £80. I could only afford it because I had grafted non stop the previous 14 days. But spontaneity is still alive in my heart.

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On the more general point of expense, if you accept that the average 'low' wage is about £200 per week after tax then paying £12 per week (game every other week) is really only about 5% of the weekly wage. The train from Brighton to Southampton costs only £9.95 on a Saturday.

 

If the footie is your main 'entertainment' for the week then is it really too much to commit 5%? Many more people spend more than £12 in the pub over the week etc. Granted, if you are just started out in work then you won't be on £200 per week but these figures are generally correct. What makes the day more expensive are all the add-ons such as programme, food, beer etc. None of which is a prerequisite to watching the actual game.

 

What has certainly made the 'luxury' of going to football seem so much more expensive in recent years is that everything else has gone through the roof. Especially if you have a family to support. With wages stagnant then I totally accept the premise that football now seems more expensive but I would wager that the actual ticket price is still in line with what it was 30 years ago, with respect to the take home wage.

Edited by 1976_Child
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With wages stagnant then I totally accept the premise that football now seams more expensive but I would wager that the actual ticket price is still in line with what it was 30 years ago, with respect to the take home wage.

 

I don't think your right, going by my own rule of thumb 'pint test', which is akin the Mars bar test used by economists to gauge comparative inflation rates. Somewhere amongst my belongings I have my accounts (ie. a side or two of A4) listing what I spent one year when I was a student at Southampton in the mid 1970s. Whilst some things are now relatively cheaper (tights, lippy, anything made in China) I noticed that the cost of getting into The Dell was around 3/4 times the cost of a drink or a pint, and that was probably at students' union prices as well. Now if you take a cheap pint at around £3 (we'll ignore 'spoons for this exercise) the cost of a footie ticket (in Div 3) is now x7 or so. The fact that one is now seated is a bit irrelevant as there is no choice.

 

Given what clubs are spending on wages as a % of turnover this is probably not surprising and I'd be interested to know what the comparative percentages were back then.

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I've already resigned myself to not being able to afford a season ticket in the premier league. Especially as in the mean time I hope to get married/start a family etc.

 

you might be ok, the kids may have left home by then.

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I used to... never worry about planning everything in advance,

just turn up, pay your money and pass an agreeable couple of hours with your friends or whoever...

 

It's not just football, it's everything, shows, restaurants you name it every bugger wants you to book in advance these days - always with a friggin' booking fee of course and penalty clauses if you decide on the night not to go. It's all a marketing con designed to scare you witless about not getting in so that you part with your money early; once they get it try getting it back!

 

It works only because too many people are gullible or daft enough to fall for it; those who "must have" or "can't say no" screw the rest of us they never stop to reflect that it doesn't matter a toss whether you miss a game or not or don't go to a particular restaurant.

 

Time after time when you arrive pre-booked there's always plenty of room and how annoying is that - very effing annoying!!! It's very rare to see a genuine sell-out. Sadly this nonsense of pre-booking costs everyone in the end not least the perpetrators 'cos as likely as not a lot of us get the hump and say "sod that for a load of ****" and don't bother to go anyway.

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All this whinging and whining about the price of football is just typical of the "I want it now" brigade. I waited 30 years to be able to afford an ST after having a family and waiting for my salary to out-grow my mortgage. So what?! That's freakin' life!

 

The whole arguement seems hypocritical to me anyway. You want Saints to be in the top tier and as successful as possible and yet you don't want to pay for it?!? While I do not support the wage demands of some footballers (and agents), at the end of the day a sport that attracts as much of a following as football does, will inevitably bow to the demands of commercialism. Unless you think there really is some hope of a utopian society, the best you can do is take responsibility for how you live your life. No one owes you anything.

 

If you want cheap football that's not commercialised (and I do understand that wish), then go watch lower league football - Totton or Eastleigh or whoever. It's still football - it's still an opportunity to get together with mates and have a beer - it doesn't stop you following Saints if you so wish. Or to put it another way, if you want the best life has to offer then expect to pay a premium for it. Sorry if that's a shock to you.

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Whilst full stadiums certainly are part of the overall package,at premiership level the sky subscriptions are far more important to clubs

than the gate receipts.

 

That will be hit too.

 

Football has been trying to defy gravity since the credit crunch started but sooner or later fundamentals will kick in.

 

Being as the vast majority of money goes on player salaries they are just going to have to take less.

 

Market forces.

 

Don't think it's value for money then don't go.

 

Simples.

 

'Value for money' or not, lots just can't afford it and those that can will probably start to feel the pinch at some future stage.

 

We're not in a recession - we're actually in a new economic reality and it isn't going away anytime soon.

 

Economic bounce? LOL.

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I've already resigned myself to not being able to afford a season ticket in the premier league. Especially as in the mean time I hope to get married/start a family etc.

 

The price of the season ticket in a lot of cases is not the biggest expenditure, it's all the add ons that go with that day out. If you live within a bus ride of St Mary's, a season ticket is not that bad value compared to alternatives. Anyone with a bit of nous would combine with one, two or several others to share a season ticket/s, it is so much cheaper. Football is a luxury and if you really wanted to do things on a budget then a small investment in Saints player is really good value. I feel sorry for those old folks where heating is a luxury in the winter, football will just adjust to the market forces and there is little to be done. But I really don't see a big change afoot, not when you have so many fanatics in this country.

 

Ticket prices are a double edged sword, it allows team to compete for players and it will affect attendances. They tend to naturally gravitate to a mid position to balance both sides of the equation or the club just goes down through the tiers.

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I don't think your right, going by my own rule of thumb 'pint test', which is akin the Mars bar test used by economists to gauge comparative inflation rates. Somewhere amongst my belongings I have my accounts (ie. a side or two of A4) listing what I spent one year when I was a student at Southampton in the mid 1970s. Whilst some things are now relatively cheaper (tights, lippy, anything made in China) I noticed that the cost of getting into The Dell was around 3/4 times the cost of a drink or a pint, and that was probably at students' union prices as well. Now if you take a cheap pint at around £3 (we'll ignore 'spoons for this exercise) the cost of a footie ticket (in Div 3) is now x7 or so. The fact that one is now seated is a bit irrelevant as there is no choice.

 

Given what clubs are spending on wages as a % of turnover this is probably not surprising and I'd be interested to know what the comparative percentages were back then.

 

Indeed. But such a narrow comparison is, well, just narrow! Compare the price of going to the footie in 1976 against the price of a 1 hour phone call to Australia then and now and the phone call has become very much more affordable!

 

But what has really changed.... well, the call to Aus has become much cheaper!

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With the financial rules as they are today and with the "ease" of corruption in finances, to play in the top flight you need money.

 

The recession is hitting very hard and will get much worse.

 

The World wants MORE football, huge sums are paid now by Satellite companies who want to penetrate emerging markets and offer a raft of products to the weirdest places.

 

So the money from fans may drop, the money from Sky could drop BUT the rest of the world will keep those TV rights monies growing.

 

Saints can take around 28,000 home fans per game in the PL, we had 28k for L1 and more wanting to go. So as UP says - tough guys, market forces will determine the price.

 

Football is NOT some share it all out Socialist wonder world. It is totally utterly based on being competitive, the better the product the better our players the more money you can earn and the better you can become.

 

The choices really are - build 80,000 seat (or standing) stadiums so they could charge 20 quid a game and make money on the concourses... OR

 

Oh they already have a solution, Just need to make the terraces standing again.... SMS should be able to take 45-50,000 piece of cake, and we can get PL football for a price we could afford.....

 

Unfortunately we had and still have "yoof" so ain't ever gonna happen.

 

Although at least The Dark Lord tried to do ONE thing right by being part of the campaign to bring back safe standing

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Talking to fans I know a lot are now not going to games/have reduced the number of games they attend, because of the costs involved. With fuel prices now at unprecendented levels and clubs charging exorbitant amounts for tickets to pay for obscene player wages the future of the game is not looking rosy.

 

Whilst big clubs like Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea have the fanbases to fill the gaps left by fans that stop going, other clubs in the tiers below will struggle to sell their capacities - the rot has already set in particularly in the North.

 

Personally I think dwindling attendances are a good thing as this will force clubs to reign in the greed, and i'm hopeful that they will become noticeably smaller next season as reports suggest they will. Saints will buck the trend whilst we are rising in my opinion, but in the medium term I don't think we will.

 

Yes I do agree - and this is mainly thanks to a certain Mr Murdoch.

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Yes I do agree - and this is mainly thanks to a certain Mr Murdoch.

 

Just found the programme from the first SKY match at the Dell.

 

Monday 24th August 1992 v Manchester United.

 

I remember it well. Sky had the cheerleaders on before the game. It ****ed down with rain all match. Me and the old man missed the goal in the 90th minute (Man Utd won 1-0) making an early exit to beat the traffic on Hill Lane.

 

Looking back no-one could have dreamt how the game would have changed so much.

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5747845793_d3bc00548c_z.jpg

 

Looking at 1992/93 prices (Skys first season) and using the average of 3% inflation over the period upto and including 2010.

 

The most expensive tickets for the most desirable games were £14 then, meaning premier league centre stand seats at St Marys should be £23.80.

 

What were centre stand seats in L1 last year?

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Dune, 3% average inflation? Give over. Inflation is measured differently by different people depending on what they buy.

 

******, and even if 3% then what is wage growth in same period?

 

there are lies, damn lies and statistics. The true concept of inflation is something that rich folk don't want you to know about. It is how they steal any stored 'work' we may have laid down:

 

watch this: (and all the other chapters too). Chris Martenson is by far the best educator on this subject:

 

http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse/chapter-10-inflation

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I don't think your right, going by my own rule of thumb 'pint test', which is akin the Mars bar test used by economists to gauge comparative inflation rates. Somewhere amongst my belongings I have my accounts (ie. a side or two of A4) listing what I spent one year when I was a student at Southampton in the mid 1970s. Whilst some things are now relatively cheaper (tights, lippy, anything made in China) I noticed that the cost of getting into The Dell was around 3/4 times the cost of a drink or a pint, and that was probably at students' union prices as well. Now if you take a cheap pint at around £3 (we'll ignore 'spoons for this exercise) the cost of a footie ticket (in Div 3) is now x7 or so. The fact that one is now seated is a bit irrelevant as there is no choice.

 

Given what clubs are spending on wages as a % of turnover this is probably not surprising and I'd be interested to know what the comparative percentages were back then.

 

A decent indicator of ticket prices is that my FA Cup Final ticket (face values) in 1988 was £5, my FA Cup Final Replay ticket in 1993 was £10, and my FA Cup Final Ticket in 2003 was at least £25. There was a huge hike in top-level ticket prices due to all-seater stadia around 1992 (as you can see from '88 to '92 the Cup Final Price doubled, there were terraces in '88 but not by '92 and the capacity was 20,000 fewer) and the costs have continued to rise up until very recently, when at the top level even the clubs like Wigan who are dependent on the Overseas TV deal for their funding rather than people actually turning up realised it looks better with the ground remotely full, plus they'd sell more merchandise and food, even if they don't actually need the fans' money.

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All this whinging and whining about the price of football is just typical of the "I want it now" brigade. I waited 30 years to be able to afford an ST after having a family and waiting for my salary to out-grow my mortgage. So what?! That's freakin' life!

 

The whole arguement seems hypocritical to me anyway. You want Saints to be in the top tier and as successful as possible and yet you don't want to pay for it?!? While I do not support the wage demands of some footballers (and agents), at the end of the day a sport that attracts as much of a following as football does, will inevitably bow to the demands of commercialism. Unless you think there really is some hope of a utopian society, the best you can do is take responsibility for how you live your life. No one owes you anything.

 

If you want cheap football that's not commercialised (and I do understand that wish), then go watch lower league football - Totton or Eastleigh or whoever. It's still football - it's still an opportunity to get together with mates and have a beer - it doesn't stop you following Saints if you so wish. Or to put it another way, if you want the best life has to offer then expect to pay a premium for it. Sorry if that's a shock to you.

 

well i hope that if we get back to the PL, the club are able to find a way of applying your principles to those who deserted the club in 2005, and rewarding those who have shelled out their hard earned through the days of the dutch experiment, lowes return, and the drop to L1.

its quite possible to survive in the PL on sensible ST prices...just check fulham or west broms prices.

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Correction, using the calculator on here http://safalra.com/other/historical-uk-inflation-price-conversion/widget.html £14 in 1992 is equivalent to £21 today.

 

Using the £8 figure for the Milton road then that means that the equivalent price today is £12.

 

Using the £12.50 figure for the cheapest seats (benchs were even cheaper) means that today Premier League seats in the Northam should be £19.

Edited by dune
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well i hope that if we get back to the PL, the club are able to find a way of applying your principles to those who deserted the club in 2005, and rewarding those who have shelled out their hard earned through the days of the dutch experiment, lowes return, and the drop to L1.

 

As much as i'd love that to be the case it's naivety in the extreme to think it'd happen, the club have already said that they want to us to break even without the family's money, and everything we've seen so far shows that there's no qualms about hitting the fan's pockets to do that.

 

Things might be good on the pitch at the moment, and there might be pride back in the club, but if you think we're being run as anything other than a business then you need to think again.

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As much as i'd love that to be the case it's naivety in the extreme to think it'd happen, the club have already said that they want to us to break even without the family's money, and everything we've seen so far shows that there's no qualms about hitting the fan's pockets to do that.

 

Things might be good on the pitch at the moment, and there might be pride back in the club, but if you think we're being run as anything other than a business then you need to think again.

 

my exectation is that prices will be very high if we get bak to the PL. But the truth is that ticket prices do NOT have to be sky high for a club to stay in, and be successful in the PL. fulhams prices are not at all unreasonable (by english football standards), especially given their location..and they are also presumably run as a business.

In the PL ticket income is a pretty small part of total income.

it really does make business sense to keep ticket prices reasonable. clubs need to keep new fans coming in, and they need to keep the hard core loyal...because bad times are always just around the corner.

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well i hope that if we get back to the PL, the club are able to find a way of applying your principles to those who deserted the club in 2005, and rewarding those who have shelled out their hard earned through the days of the dutch experiment, lowes return, and the drop to L1.

its quite possible to survive in the PL on sensible ST prices...just check fulham or west broms prices.

 

Completely agree with you there. I would rather we have the ground full to rafters and that the club are able to afford to keep prices sensible, however I know that if you want to experience the best of anything in life, in general you have to pay more for it.

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A lot of understandable nostalgia on here - but sometimes it does sound like sentimental old tosh.

 

Firstly, the games are now played at St Mary's not the Dell. You'd expect prices to rise. For all the wonders of the Dell, SMS is nicer/cleaner etc.

 

Secondly, people aren't being priced out of football. Inflation is not the right comparitor - growth in incomes is. If people really are being priced out, why are attendances so much higher than in the 1980s?

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Correction, using the calculator on here http://safalra.com/other/historical-uk-inflation-price-conversion/widget.html £14 in 1992 is equivalent to £21 today.

 

Using the £8 figure for the Milton road then that means that the equivalent price today is £12.

 

Using the £12.50 figure for the cheapest seats (benchs were even cheaper) means that today Premier League seats in the Northam should be £19.

 

It also means based on the £8 1988 FA Cup Final ticket price, that 2010 FA Cup final tickets should be £16.

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A lot of understandable nostalgia on here - but sometimes it does sound like sentimental old tosh.

 

Firstly, the games are now played at St Mary's not the Dell. You'd expect prices to rise. For all the wonders of the Dell, SMS is nicer/cleaner etc.

 

Secondly, people aren't being priced out of football. Inflation is not the right comparitor - growth in incomes is. If people really are being priced out, why are attendances so much higher than in the 1980s?

 

Because there are more people interested in watching football in relatively pleasant environs than there were back when a pile of matches just looked like two gangs of yobs in silly clothes trying to have a fight at a dump.

 

Obviously there's a demand factor in pricing as well, that's one of the things you can start to calculate once you eliminate the underlying trends like inflation.

 

The cheapest 2010 FA Cup Final Tickets (Chelsea, at least) were £40 (plus a £4.87 booking fee, but let's be generous). Purely inflationary cost calculated backwards would have made the 1988 ticket £20, which is £12 more than it was. So somewhere along the line something's thrown over a 100% hike into the costs.

 

I only wish I knew how much the cheapest seats were in 1988, although back then seats were a premium compared to terracing and now there's no alternative.

Edited by The9
was sentence construction crap. :)
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Bloody hell, maybe I won't be going there next season then. :uhoh:

 

that's how much is was for Fulham fans to go there as well, £46 (and with saints ticket office you could be paying a ticket tax on top as well)

 

west ham will surely have to bring prices down next season, but doubt it will be less that £30 which is still an absolure rip off

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that's how much is was for Fulham fans to go there as well, £46 (and with saints ticket office you could be paying a ticket tax on top as well)

 

west ham will surely have to bring prices down next season, but doubt it will be less that £30 which is still an absolure rip off

 

And last time we were in the Championship, Palace and Ipswich were £30 for adults if I remember correctly, sod paying that to go to those dull s**tholes!

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I still do. I was p!ssed off my face in the early hours of Saturday and decided to go to the Carlisle game last season. Jumped out of bed, grabbed my Red Stripe shirt and a clean pair of Y-fronts and got myself down to Brighton station for the 04:05 train to London. Return ticket to Carlisle cost me £195. Hotel cost £80. I could only afford it because I had grafted non stop the previous 14 days. But spontaneity is still alive in my heart.

 

Fair play, but you could have done it for a quarter of the price if forward planning was still alive in your heart.......

Edited by Sour Mash
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Fans who go to games are a complete irrelanvance to Premier League football teams. The real money comes from TV revenue. And it's not even just UK TV revenues that are more important, just look at how much the Far East Premier League TV rights went for. Teams can survive perfectly well in the Prem with a few thouasand fans, just look at Wigan.

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And last time we were in the Championship, Palace and Ipswich were £30 for adults if I remember correctly, sod paying that to go to those dull s**tholes!

 

Palace and Ipswich are two my favourite away games. I'll probably stump up for them, but will abstain from a lot of games to balance the books. The days of going regularly are a thing of the past for me due to the costs involved. I've just booked flights to Malaga to stay with friends in Puerto Banus for 3 weeks in September. I've already made the choice that I won't be going to games at the start of the season - i'd rather spend the money on a holiday.

Edited by dune
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that's how much is was for Fulham fans to go there as well, £46 (and with saints ticket office you could be paying a ticket tax on top as well)

 

west ham will surely have to bring prices down next season, but doubt it will be less that £30 which is still an absolure rip off

 

that's the thing, we can hardly ask our club to complain when they'll be increasing the price by £3 themselves with the ticket tax.

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Using the Dell prices from 1984 for a fixture against Arsenal in the league:

 

Adult standing £3, should be £7.20 in todays prices.

Child/OAP standing £1.50, should be £3.60 in todays prices.

Bench seats £4.50, should be £11 in todays prices.

Wing seats £6, should be £14 in todays prices.

Centre seats £6.50, should be £16 in todays prices.

 

So roughly what we've seen is ticket prices double in real terms since then, a 100% increase.

 

At the same time petrol/litre has increased from 38p to 140p where if it had tracked inflation should be 93p so there's another 50% increase.

 

It's no wonder that the writing is on the wall for football attendances.

Edited by dune
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It's no wonder that the writing is on the wall for football attendances.

 

I've heard people say that for at least the last 15 years. I remember people saying they'd never pay more than £25 for A top-flight game back in the mid-90s. Despite the "current economic climate", can't really see too many signs of anything changing soon.

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bet it isnt...not while up and down the country fans DEMAND to part with their cash way early in order to use something that is useless for months on end (STs)

 

No you are missing the point, with season tickets what we want is the best deal, often that is had with the early purchasing, look at the number of season tickets Norwich and Brighton have been able to sell at this level with good offers, the objection is not that it is a late announcement of season ticket details, more that they will be more expensive and less attractive to buy than the ones offered by other clubs.

 

last time we were in championship i gave 10 away games that season a miss as could not justify the cost, including games like Palace on a Monday night where £30 entrance was taking the p*ss

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When we were at the Dell I seem to remember my old man playing £8 for the Milton Rd and it being £1.50 for a child. This would be about 20 years ago.

 

I remember it being even less than that, The first game i went to 1985, was £1.50 for children £3.50 for adults. As a kid I used to be able to get the bus to and from the Dell, get in and have a McDonalds afterwards with my £6 a week paper round money.

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I've already resigned myself to not being able to afford a season ticket in the premier league. Especially as in the mean time I hope to get married/start a family etc.

 

ffs man, get a grip and get your priorities right!!!

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Just found the programme from the first SKY match at the Dell.

 

Monday 24th August 1992 v Manchester United.

 

I remember it well. Sky had the cheerleaders on before the game. It ****ed down with rain all match. Me and the old man missed the goal in the 90th minute (Man Utd won 1-0) making an early exit to beat the traffic on Hill Lane.

 

Looking back no-one could have dreamt how the game would have changed so much.

 

I wouldnt mention that while Turkish is on ;)

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