david in sweden Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 (edited) reading a site earlier I noted that they stated " Rickie Lambert netted 21 times last season AND made 10 assists." (to other players). This is a seldom quoted statistic, and although from match-to-match, some journo's and commentators say " so-and-so scored after a centre from whatsisname " there still seems to be very few football stats. that give a season figure. Goodness knows how many of Ron Davies' goals would have been written as " assist from Paine / Sydenham " . Brett Ormerods humble goal tally (11 goals from 98 games) looks rather poor until you consider how many goals he " made for others "... like James Beattie. In Ice hockey there are always lists of goal scorers AND assists. It does at least give a better showing of the value of a player to any side than simply looking at apps. and goals. Why don't we have similar lists for League football, I wonder ? Who are the best suppliers in the Saints squad? Edited 23 June, 2011 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 You want the Football League website. Stats aplenty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintNeil90 Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 Highest assists at a guess would be Lallana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 Strikers are measure on goals, always have been, always will be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Neil Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 Have a look here Assist stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 Strikers are measure on goals, always have been, always will be Often wrongly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 Strikers are measure on goals, always have been, always will be Emile Heskey's downfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 saints for each season http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/Assists/0,,10280~201010280,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 . Brett Ormerods humble goal tally (11 goals from 98 games) looks rather poor until you consider how many goals he " made for others "... like James Beattie. In Ice hockey there are always lists of goal scorers AND assists. It does at least give a better showing of the value of a player to any side than simply looking at apps. and goals. Why don't we have similar lists for League football, I wonder ? Who are the best suppliers in the Saints squad? 02/03 Brett 4 league assists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 looking back at those, best we had in season was 9, until Rickie's 20 season before last and 12 this season, Lallana 13 this season. 20 assists is pretty impressive on top of 35 goals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 Often wrongly. Didn't say i agreed with it....but how many people say 'we need to sign a striker who will get us 15 assists a season' Not many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 Assists mean nothing much anyway. Just because a player puts in the last pass (or even knocks it in the net from 1 yard) it doesn't really mean that it's any more valuable than any other part of the action that led to the goal.Individually created goals are rare enough and sometimes the really decisive action in a goal movement was about 3 or 4 steps back in the chain,like a superb pass out of defensive or a midfielder covering 20 yards and robbing an opponent of the ball to put his team away against the run of play.Assists is just an American term probably imported from Ice Hockey or Basketball or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 Emile Heskey's downfall. No, his downfall was that 9 out of 10 games he was shyte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 No, his downfall was that 9 out of 10 games he was shyte. Yeah, and this. Well said. I scored against someone on FIFA with Heskey, felt so embarrassed for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 . Brett Ormerods humble goal tally (11 goals from 98 games) looks rather poor until you consider how many goals he " made for others "... like James Beattie. Complete myth. omerods assist stats were as poor as his goals stats.....basically he was just very poor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambosa75 Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 Complete myth. omerods assist stats were as poor as his goals stats.....basically he was just very poor A willing runner and a try-er but technically, he was gash. Effort will get you very far in football though, which is why I rated him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 Dave are you bored at the moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 To be fair to Brett, a lot of Bretts 'assists' weren't the final pass but more the running he did off the ball to create space for others to shoot from or pull defenders out of position. I think you cant rate this as a striker really, but lets be honest, Beattie was only scoring a lot of goals when he was playing alongside Brett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 23 June, 2011 Author Share Posted 23 June, 2011 (edited) Strikers are measure on goals, always have been, always will be I was thinking in terms of a players value to the team as a whole. Whilst most of the names above were strikers, but Terry Paine (187 goals) was a right winger.... and I've never seen MLT (212 goals) described as a striker but .... an attacking MIDFIELDER. David Peach (in the late 70's) was a goalscoring / penalty-taking LEFT BACK , who scored far more than some of the "supposed " strikers we've had in the last couple of decades. Edited 23 June, 2011 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkeith Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 As someone else said, assists can be misleading. I can remember a goal that Steve Williams scored against Norwich soem years back. He received a short square pass from Keegan, on the half way line, and set off on a mazy run , beating 5 or 6 Norwich players before curling it round the keeper insde the far post. Keegan quipped to the press afterwards " In America I would get an assist for that " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 23 June, 2011 Author Share Posted 23 June, 2011 Have a look here Assist stats Thanks for that St.Neil, that's obviously something I seemed to have missed. Pity isn't more made of it. The Ice Hockey example I gave has a merit table. 2 pts.(?) for a goal....and 1 for an assist. On the basis of those ratings we'd see (goals+assists) Lambert 21+12 = 54 pts. (not surprisingly) Lallana 11+13 = 34 pts. (you're right that man , he did give most assists) Barnard 15+3 = 33 pts. (typical greedy striker - goes for it himself - thank goodness). AOC 10+8 = 28 pts. (a good wingers job, supplies to others and scores himself.) Guly 11+6 = 28 pts. (one in the eye for his critics ! - he seems very effective overall) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 23 June, 2011 Author Share Posted 23 June, 2011 To be fair to Brett, a lot of Bretts 'assists' weren't the final pass but more the running he did off the ball to create space for others to shoot from or pull defenders out of position. I think you cant rate this as a striker really, but lets be honest, Beattie was only scoring a lot of goals when he was playing alongside Brett. Thank you. Thats really the point I was (clumsily) trying to make. Even after the season that Rasiak scored 20 goals everyone was still calling him a lazy Pole ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 23 June, 2011 Author Share Posted 23 June, 2011 Didn't say i agreed with it....but how many people say 'we need to sign a striker who will get us 15 assists a season' Not many TRUE, but how many "strikers" end the season in single digits just because they don't get passes, or assist in the the final third ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 23 June, 2011 Author Share Posted 23 June, 2011 (edited) Dave are you bored at the moment? more contemplative I think. I find myself thinking of many different aspects of the game rather than raw statistics. .....but I do object to the idea of spending MILLIONS on players who can't do either... (score / make assists), always seems like someone missed the last link sometimes. I loved watching Osgood play, but for his goal-scoring reputation... his scoring feats with Saints were very few, as was Charlie Georges'....... and I don't want to go into the fiasco of £3 million Delgado. The goal-plundering Mark Hughes who was with Man.Utd and Chelsea only succeeded in picking up the average of one yellow card for each game he played for Saints and managed only 2 goals in 52 apps. VERY disappointing. He might have been a low fee / or FREE... but I bet his salary was BIG ! A good team player can both score goals and provide for others. Edited 23 June, 2011 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 23 June, 2011 Share Posted 23 June, 2011 looking back at those, best we had in season was 9, until Rickie's 20 season before last and 12 this season, Lallana 13 this season. 20 assists is pretty impressive on top of 35 goals! Dave - season before 90 points!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 23 June, 2011 Author Share Posted 23 June, 2011 Dave - season before 90 points!? yes and I recalled Ron Davies, too 37 league goals the first season ...and 28 the second (defences had got used to him by then) third season 20 and then... only 12. he became " fair game for the cloggers", got little protection from refs. and only managed 29 games out of 42. I do hope that Ricky manages to stay injury free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbert Posted 25 June, 2011 Share Posted 25 June, 2011 Dave are you bored at the moment? He's certainly boring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 I would wager that people on here would rather read Davids post than yours! I can't remember every reading a thread started by him that I thought was boring, far from it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Meh, if it keeps the vultures away from our more creative players, that can only be a good thing. Strikers are judged on goals, but even though Rickie didn't score as many last season as he did the season before, most of us note his contribution to the team as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBenali Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Assist stats can be somewhat misleading, I remember reading somewhere that officially Bale only got about 4 assists for Spuds last year...basically from where he does all the hard work down the left wing, beats some players and whips in a cross, which is then (for example) nodded down by Crouch for Van Der Vaart to score. The assist would go down as Crouchies, but the most valuable work in the move would have been Bales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Have a look here Assist stats I'm surprised Lee Barnard has made only three assists. Considering his high energy on the pitch, is this a weakness in his game that should be addressed? Or is it that he has been tasked to keep defenders occupied and score when he can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbert Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 I would wager that people on here would rather read Davids post than yours! I can't remember every reading a thread started by him that I thought was boring, far from it! So you're an avid reader of all his balanced and sensible posts about the Swedish league then? God I hate the summer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 28 June, 2011 Author Share Posted 28 June, 2011 (edited) well of course we are all entitled to a point of view, Danbert-aren't we...? What would you prefer...a wildly exaggerated, sketchy biased, inaccurate report..or is it just the Swedish League you don't like? Admittedly, it is a minority interest, but around 10 years ago Saints (under Strachan) had a period of 3 consecutive pre-season with visits to Sweden. I was fortunate enough to see some of those games as did hundreds of travelling fans, and it created some interest from fans, some of whom like to comment and reply to the OVERSEAS threads.. Sorry you're not one of them. As for response..you can judge yourself. I've posted only about 6 Swedish items in the LAST YEAR . One had over 1400 views, most of the others between 300-600 views. Obviously of interest to some people - wouldn't you say ? MY original point in this thread was that I feel it's unfair for people to " judge" a striker PURELY on the number of goals they score, or the goals/apps. ratio. The best example is Adam Lallana who last season scored 11 but had 13 assists, and he was about almost a dozen games. We know AL is good, as NA put it " the best player in L1."...but some just look at the goals scored and it isn't entirely fair to him (them). Edited 28 June, 2011 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 28 June, 2011 Share Posted 28 June, 2011 We need to sign a striker who will get us 15 assists a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 28 June, 2011 Share Posted 28 June, 2011 We need to sign a striker who will get us 15 assists a season. tbf Lambo got 37 goals and 25 assists in his first season with us. Pretty amazing stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbert Posted 28 June, 2011 Share Posted 28 June, 2011 well of course we are all entitled to a point of view, Danbert-aren't we...? What would you prefer...a wildly exaggerated, sketchy biased, inaccurate report..or is it just the Swedish League you don't like? Admittedly, it is a minority interest, but around 10 years ago Saints (under Strachan) had a period of 3 consecutive pre-season with visits to Sweden. I was fortunate enough to see some of those games as did hundreds of travelling fans, and it created some interest from fans, some of whom like to comment and reply to the OVERSEAS threads.. Sorry you're not one of them. As for response..you can judge yourself. I've posted only about 6 Swedish items in the LAST YEAR . One had over 1400 views, most of the others between 300-600 views. Obviously of interest to some people - wouldn't you say ? MY original point in this thread was that I feel it's unfair for people to " judge" a striker PURELY on the number of goals they score, or the goals/apps. ratio. The best example is Adam Lallana who last season scored 11 but had 13 assists, and he was about almost a dozen games. We know AL is good, as NA put it " the best player in L1."...but some just look at the goals scored and it isn't entirely fair to him (them). It's the repeatedly stating the bleedin obvious that gets to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 28 June, 2011 Author Share Posted 28 June, 2011 whatever interest or value there may have been in this subject from the beginning seems to have disappeared in a wave of apathy. I'm happy if you close it now, MODS ! Thanks to all who participated - even Danbert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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