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Team playing so well under Mopo: MYTH


Glasgow_Saint

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Glasgow, do you think we should sack him and bring back Adkins? Or bring in another manager?

 

Personally I think this season has been great. It's been enjoyable, we've played some of the best possession football in the league, and I think a lot of this is due to Pochettino.

 

Glasgow obviously doesn't like Pochettino, can only speculate as to why, but personally I think we'd be stupid to get rid.

 

Right down to the blue tie.

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Stats aren't necessarily an indisputable truth, although in this instance they do seem to be in Adkins' favour. Personally, I think we played better football under NA, but we're playing more successful football under MP which is still very easy on the eye. Also, don't forget that we spent most of the early part of this season in the Top 6, whereas we spent most of the early part of last season under NA in the Bottom 6. It all evens out eventually, and tbh I think we could've potentially finished top half under NA last year, but I think we're around the level we should be at.

 

We've not been at our best recently, but I don't think that's entirely down to the manager either. The team selection yesterday was spot-on, but like the Sunderland game the players didn't put in a good enough performance for the full 90 minutes. I think the players have gotten complacent after the cup exit and are mentally on their holidays already.

 

Worth repeating as it sums things up for me, Supermikey.

 

I'm also blown away to see Dalek talking sense...... things have certainly changed round here :)

 

Shame about all this "you're a troll" "No, you're a troll" crap though.

The ignore button works fine, so why not use it instead of whining like a playground prat?

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I think we should set a bar of minimum requirements.

Lets say 7th in the league for the sake of it.

 

As soon as the team drops below 7th after a game we should sack the manager and get a new in. Might be a lot of changes if we dont start the season good enough but at least the managers would know what the demands are...

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I think some of the comments on here get mis construed. It goes without saying that we are now playing very attractive football under pochettino. However, the deepening frustration is that it's all well and good having all the possession but it's goals that count. We have come so far in such a quick time which is fantastic. The thing that is frustrating most of us is the fact that if only we were more clinical we could actually now be in 7th or higher by now. Most of the teams we play only need a few chances to score but we seem to need loads and loads of chances. Yes it is fantastic what we have achieved but I find myself getting increasingly agitated with the fact we are more often than not the better team but just haven't got the quality in finishing to get the points. Two clinical strikers and we could easily have been 6th now

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I think some of the comments on here get mis construed. It goes without saying that we are now playing very attractive football under pochettino. However, the deepening frustration is that it's all well and good having all the possession but it's goals that count. We have come so far in such a quick time which is fantastic. The thing that is frustrating most of us is the fact that if only we were more clinical we could actually now be in 7th or higher by now. Most of the teams we play only need a few chances to score but we seem to need loads and loads of chances. Yes it is fantastic what we have achieved but I find myself getting increasingly agitated with the fact we are more often than not the better team but just haven't got the quality in finishing to get the points. Two clinical strikers and we could easily have been 6th now

 

Its been mentioned earlier on the thread, but we have 2 x England strikers and had 1 x Italy striker. All have scored bag fulls of goals before, but have or are struggling under mopo. This is consistant with his time at Espanyol... Top, top strikers but failed to score goals while under mopos management. Im sure its just a coincidence?

 

How good do the strikers need to be to succeed under mopo? Are we talking Ronaldo and Messi or just Suarez and Aguero?

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Its been mentioned earlier on the thread, but we have 2 x England strikers and had 1 x Italy striker. All have scored bag fulls of goals before, but have or are struggling under mopo. This is consistant with his time at Espanyol... Top, top strikers but failed to score goals while under mopos management. Im sure its just a coincidence?

 

How good do the strikers need to be to succeed under mopo? Are we talking Ronaldo and Messi or just Suarez and Aguero?

 

Can you answer my question ta? What is your opinion on what we should do with Poch?

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Still no answer to the question earlier on who the manager is that turned Lambert and Rodriguez into national team players and also turned Osvaldo into a big money move to Roma and earning his first call-up to the national team just months after leaving Espanyol?

 

Maybe the system turned them into national team players.....or just a coincidence??

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It's not the managers fault that he has to play lambert and rodriguez instead of aguero and suarez. However it is absolutely certain that if we had those two instead of what we have, we would be challenging for 6th or higher. We are actually not that far off we just need lethal strikers. But they don't come cheap

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Its been mentioned earlier on the thread, but we have 2 x England strikers and had 1 x Italy striker. All have scored bag fulls of goals before, but have or are struggling under mopo. This is consistant with his time at Espanyol... Top, top strikers but failed to score goals while under mopos management. Im sure its just a coincidence?

 

How good do the strikers need to be to succeed under mopo? Are we talking Ronaldo and Messi or just Suarez and Aguero?

 

Lambert's scoring record under Poch is roughly the same as under Adkins in the Prem, Jay's is significantly better. Osvaldo has never been prolific except arguably for one season with Espanyol....and guess who the manager was that season?

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Lambert's scoring record under Poch is roughly the same as under Adkins in the Prem, Jay's is significantly better. Osvaldo has never been prolific except arguably for one season with Espanyol....and guess who the manager was that season?

 

So if its not the strikers holding us back what is?

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So if its not the strikers holding us back what is?

 

You might want to check the facts before talking rubbish next time. Holding us back from what? We are 9th in the league which is pretty much where we deserve to be - very likely to finish better than the 14th last year, 4 England call ups, exciting youngsters coming through. Progress.

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You might want to check the facts before talking rubbish next time. Holding us back from what? We are 9th in the league which is pretty much where we deserve to be - very likely to finish better than the 14th last year, 4 England call ups, exciting youngsters coming through. Progress.

 

Facts? Progress? Whats your thoughts on the below "fact and progress"?

 

 

Mopo last 18

W4 D5 L9

 

Adkins last 18

W5 D7 L6

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Facts? Progress? Whats your thoughts on the below "fact and progress"?

 

 

Mopo last 18

W4 D5 L9

 

Adkins last 18

W5 D7 L6

 

My thoughts are you've taken "facts" out of context to try to justify your straw man argument. HTH. We are 9th in the league and likely to finish that way - how do you feel about that? Do you think we should sack Poch? Who would you replace him with?

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My thoughts are you've taken "facts" out of context to try to justify your straw man argument. HTH. We are 9th in the league and likely to finish that way - how do you feel about that? Do you think we should sack Poch? Who would you replace him with?

 

I get asked this alot.... But to be honest its not my job to decide what to do with mopo, thats the owners decision.

 

If he was to go.... How about Javier Aguirre? He took over from the great mopo when Espanyol were rock bottom of la liga. He turned them around, kept them up and now has them sitting nicely in mid table.

 

Espanyol are playing some great football with a very very average squad.

 

Failing that id look at RDM or Laudrup

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I get asked this alot.... But to be honest its not my job to decide what to do with mopo, thats the owners decision.

 

If he was to go.... How about Javier Aguirre? He took over from the great mopo when Espanyol were rock bottom of la liga. He turned them around, kept them up and now has them sitting nicely in mid table.

 

Espanyol are playing some great football with a very very average squad.

 

Failing that id look at RDM or Laudrup

 

I wasn't asking you to decide, generally speaking faceless internet nobodies don't get asked by football club owners what they should do - but as this is an internet forum you can express your opinion freely, something you seem very passionate that is your right in some of your other posts. So, exercise your right and tell us, in your opinion should we sack him?

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Whose possession? Which matches? I'd be interested to know how they did that analysis and arrived at that conclusion.

 

I found it but you may need to log in:

 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/finktank/article4006516.ece

 

What should one make of Arsenal having more possession than Liverpool in a game they lost 5-1? Is this one of those results that randomness produces? Or do the numbers mean that possession is irrelevant?

Dr Henry Stott, Dr Mark Latham and Gabriella Lebrecht have been looking at possession to try to make sense of matches in which a team hold the ball but still lose badly.

Swansea, as the graphic suggests, are the team with the highest possession on average in a game this season. It would seem that there is some relationship between good teams and possession, but not a consistent one. There is quite a difference between Manchester City’s possession and that of Crystal Palace, yet Southampton have more of the ball than Chelsea.

Using the same data (but since 2010) with a scatter plot of possession against points and league position, it can be seen that Swansea are an outlier. The more possession you have, the more points you get.

Next, possession was broken down into thirds of the pitch. Arsenal emerge as the side with the highest portion of their possession in the final third. But there isn’t a huge variation: 27 per cent of Arsenal’s possession is in the final third, 26 per cent of the Manchester clubs’ and 25 per cent of Chelsea’s.

We then developed a measure that combined passing in the final third with possession there and found this was correlated with points more strongly than possession by itself.

Finally, we looked at the strength of the correlation between some of these measures of possession and outcomes. The measure for combined final-third possession and passing did seem to be related to shots on target. But most measures were only weakly related.

If a team increase final-third possession by 10 per cent, it is associated with just 0.87 additional shots on target. So even big changes in possession have little relationship with outcomes, and we can’t assume a causal relationship either.

The Arsenal defeat was an outlier, perhaps, and randomness was clearly doing its work, but the main lesson is not to pay much attention to possession statistics.

 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00523/FinkTank_523467a.pdf

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Aguirre that apparently lost 12-14 GOOD players this summer....

 

Players like Bifouma, Tejera, Luna, Albín, Gomez, Alfonso,, Alvarez, and Baena.....

All wanted by great clubs...

 

Javi took over from mopos espanyol when they were rock bottom, he kept them up against all odds and now has them sitting pretty in mid table. He sold a number of mopos players raising 12m and signed a few players for very small fees or free.

 

Espanyol fans love him and say he's there bestest manager since José Manuel Esnal

 

Pretty good if you ask me? Youre not impressed?

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Javi took over from mopos espanyol when they were rock bottom, he kept them up against all odds and now has them sitting pretty in mid table. He sold a number of mopos players raising 12m and signed a few players for very small fees or free.

 

Espanyol fans love him and say he's there bestest manager since José Manuel Esnal

 

Pretty good if you ask me? Youre not impressed?

 

Not sure how 2 points from safety could be called "rock bottom" but dont let the truth stand in the way for your posts....

 

And maybe you could provide a link to those Espanyol fans saying that?

They surely dont have high demands if he only needs to be better than a manager that was there for 8 games collecting 6 points...

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I found it but you may need to log in:

 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/finktank/article4006516.ece

 

What should one make of Arsenal having more possession than Liverpool in a game they lost 5-1? Is this one of those results that randomness produces? Or do the numbers mean that possession is irrelevant?

Dr Henry Stott, Dr Mark Latham and Gabriella Lebrecht have been looking at possession to try to make sense of matches in which a team hold the ball but still lose badly.

Swansea, as the graphic suggests, are the team with the highest possession on average in a game this season. It would seem that there is some relationship between good teams and possession, but not a consistent one. There is quite a difference between Manchester City’s possession and that of Crystal Palace, yet Southampton have more of the ball than Chelsea.

Using the same data (but since 2010) with a scatter plot of possession against points and league position, it can be seen that Swansea are an outlier. The more possession you have, the more points you get.

Next, possession was broken down into thirds of the pitch. Arsenal emerge as the side with the highest portion of their possession in the final third. But there isn’t a huge variation: 27 per cent of Arsenal’s possession is in the final third, 26 per cent of the Manchester clubs’ and 25 per cent of Chelsea’s.

We then developed a measure that combined passing in the final third with possession there and found this was correlated with points more strongly than possession by itself.

Finally, we looked at the strength of the correlation between some of these measures of possession and outcomes. The measure for combined final-third possession and passing did seem to be related to shots on target. But most measures were only weakly related.

If a team increase final-third possession by 10 per cent, it is associated with just 0.87 additional shots on target. So even big changes in possession have little relationship with outcomes, and we can’t assume a causal relationship either.

The Arsenal defeat was an outlier, perhaps, and randomness was clearly doing its work, but the main lesson is not to pay much attention to possession statistics.

 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00523/FinkTank_523467a.pdf

 

I would have to subscribe to get access but from what you have kindly copied and pasted it would seem the academics are telling us what we know already, not to pay too much attention to possession statistics (arguably you could broaden that to any statistics). Nonetheless the table does show that the better teams tend to be those that have more possession and the weaker tend to be those that have less.

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2 points from safety, that´s less than you get from 1 (one) win. Rock bottom.....?

 

15 Celta de Vigo 13 4 2 7 15 18 14

16 Mallorca 13 3 3 7 13 22 12

17 Deportivo 13 2 5 6 19 28 11

.............................................................................

18 Granada 13 3 2 8 11 20 11

19 Osasuna 13 2 4 7 11 15 10

20 Espanyol 13 2 3 8 13 22 9

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2 points from safety, that´s less than you get from 1 (one) win. Rock bottom.....?

 

15 Celta de Vigo 13 4 2 7 15 18 14

16 Mallorca 13 3 3 7 13 22 12

17 Deportivo 13 2 5 6 19 28 11

.............................................................................

18 Granada 13 3 2 8 11 20 11

19 Osasuna 13 2 4 7 11 15 10

20 Espanyol 13 2 3 8 13 22 9

That is 'rock bottom'.
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I get asked this alot.... But to be honest its not my job to decide what to do with mopo, thats the owners decision.

 

If he was to go.... How about Javier Aguirre? He took over from the great mopo when Espanyol were rock bottom of la liga. He turned them around, kept them up and now has them sitting nicely in mid table.

 

Espanyol are playing some great football with a very very average squad.

 

Failing that id look at RDM or Laudrup

Have you thought of taking up politics?

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So if its not the strikers holding us back what is?

 

Holding us back from what? 6th? CL? League Titles?

Surely at this point the only thing holding us back from those is money, and the aggressive use of it.

We're about where we might have hoped to be at the start of the season. Anyone who honestly believed we'd make top four is a moron.

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Holding us back from what? 6th? CL? League Titles?

Surely at this point the only thing holding us back from those is money, and the aggressive use of it.

We're about where we might have hoped to be at the start of the season. Anyone who honestly believed we'd make top four is a moron.

 

But nobody is talking about CL or league title (just you) Regardless of where you are in the league is the below good enough? Let's us not drag up the cup mess again either ffs

 

Mopo last 18

W4 D5 L9

 

Adkins last 18

W5 D7 L6

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But nobody is talking about CL or league title (just you) Regardless of where you are in the league is the below good enough? Let's us not drag up the cup mess again either ffs

 

Mopo last 18

W4 D5 L9

 

Adkins last 18

W5 D7 L6

 

You missed out pointing out that sentence about....what was it...?

no Boruc, no Lovren, no chambers, no Wanyama, no Gallagher, no Shaw....?

 

Even though last year both Boruc and Shaw were involved during that 18 game span but that shouldn´t count or something.....and this year when Wanyama, Boruc AND Lovren is out during that 18game span it should count.......

 

Then how Gallagher ended up in that is all very strange but on this forum anything is possible I guess...

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My thoughts are that you've picked 18 games as a measure because it just so happens that those 18 games best support your subjective agenda. If you'd picked 28 games I.e. the entire season this far, it would show that we've won 10, drawn 9, lost 9 which would, in turn, show that you've excluded a run of results that returned 5 wins and 4 draws with no defeats.

 

My thoughts are also that you're a moron.

 

:lol:

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But nobody is talking about CL or league title (just you) Regardless of where you are in the league is the below good enough? Let's us not drag up the cup mess again either ffs

 

Mopo last 18

W4 D5 L9

 

Adkins last 18

W5 D7 L6

 

cherry-picking-numbers.jpg

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Mopo last 18

W4 D5 L9

 

Adkins last 18

W5 D7 L6

 

1 Chelsea 28 19 6 3 52 22 30 63

2 Liverpool 28 18 5 5 73 35 38 59

3 Arsenal 28 18 5 5 52 28 24 59

4 Man City 26 18 3 5 69 27 42 57

5 Tottenham 28 16 5 7 37 33 4 53

6 Everton 27 13 9 5 38 27 11 48

7 Man Utd 27 13 6 8 43 31 12 45

8 Newcastle 28 13 4 11 37 39 -2 43

9 Southampton 28 10 9 9 38 35 3 39

10 West Ham 28 8 7 13 31 35 -4 31

11 Aston Villa 28 8 7 13 31 38 -7 31

12 Hull 28 8 6 14 30 35 -5 30

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But nobody is talking about CL or league title (just you) Regardless of where you are in the league is the below good enough? Let's us not drag up the cup mess again either ffs

 

Mopo last 18

W4 D5 L9

 

Adkins last 18

W5 D7 L6

 

I thought NC's vision was CL qualification, which is what all those summer signings were supposed to have bought into. Doubt if they expected to happen in one season mind you. Not suggesting you personally bought into that idea, although clearly a lot of people on this forum did. So no, I am NOT the only one talking about Champions League. Although when I talk about it I'm just sharing what a stupid concept it was. Especially the idea we'd get there in one season.

The results from those 18 games have been good enough to keep us in the top half, thanks in part to the results from the 10 games immediately preceeding them (22 points from 11 games).

And then we were hit with injuries, which our squad is not strong enough to deal with, and a mad bloody Italian pr*ck.

We are at best a top half/midtable team. Expecting more at this point is folly.

There'll be changes in the summer, but I fervently hope MP is not among them.

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I thought NC's vision was CL qualification, which is what all those summer signings were supposed to have bought into. Doubt if they expected to happen in one season mind you. Not suggesting you personally bought into that idea, although clearly a lot of people on this forum did. So no, I am NOT the only one talking about Champions League. Although when I talk about it I'm just sharing what a stupid concept it was. Especially the idea we'd get there in one season.

The results from those 18 games have been good enough to keep us in the top half, thanks in part to the results from the 10 games immediately preceeding them (22 points from 11 games).

And then we were hit with injuries, which our squad is not strong enough to deal with, and a mad bloody Italian pr*ck.

We are at best a top half/midtable team. Expecting more at this point is folly.

There'll be changes in the summer, but I fervently hope MP is not among them.

 

Great post that sums up where we're at right now!

 

Personally I am still very happy with MP so want him to commit to us long term

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'I'd him for magic beans for Moyes'

 

made me chuckle. ;-)

 

 

As to Poch, once again GS manages to score and wind a load of folk up... Person annoy I'll just be glad if we hold on to him for the rest of his contract... Many on here have always underestimated the influence 'nasty Nic' has had on this club in pushing for better and convincing the staff to dedicate themselves to it... No disrespect to KL, but I struggle to see how the summer will be anything but depressing... But hey GS and Barry are happy 'MoPo' will go... So everything will be fine....

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Yes and a great job you do...... :facepalm:

 

You really showed them WHU fans whose best

 

http://kumb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=149299&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=1240

 

Strange how you knew that, and how fast you posted from that forum in another thread....just minutes after it was posted there you did it here...

 

A bit obsessed or could it be some other reason to that quickness.... :rolleyes:

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Strange how you knew that, and how fast you posted from that forum in another thread....just minutes after it was posted there you did it here...

 

A bit obsessed or could it be some other reason to that quickness.... :rolleyes:

 

Eh quickness? You posted on the WHU forum last week.......?

 

Just typed "Olallana forum" into google and they you were.... you really have too much time on your hands mate

 

WHU - http://kumb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=149299&start=1260

Man City - http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=7441873&sid=7ee8d1a640bc67cba37a3712e8d6940a

Nottingham Forest - http://www.forest.vitalfootball.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=26712

Not 606 - http://www.not606.com/showthread.php/245926-Nicola-Cortese-s-next-job-will-be/page7

LFW - http://loftforwords.fansnetwork.co.uk/forum/79253/page:3

Rochdale - http://rochdaleafc.fansnetwork.co.uk/forum/79253/page:2

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Yeah, but funny how you posted that KUMB link on this forum in an earlier thread and just minutes after I supposedly had posted on their forum...

How could that be?

 

You´re an idiot and I cant understand how they let you stay on this forum, but maybe the mods are animal-friends....who knows...

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Who could forget Matthew Le Gods claims on the Blackburn forum?

 

http://www.roverstalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5236

http://www.roverstalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5237

 

Just dont understand why they do it - they look like complete idiots and make the normal Saints fans like me and you look like fools too.

 

These posters like MLG and Olallana who think they speak for all Saints fans....... :facepalm:

 

Guys on the Rochdale forum have called it -

 

unfortunately all those that did it with any humour have been banned and it's left with cocks like olallana and Saint Garrett posting their boring bol locks on every thread.
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Just dont understand why they do it - they look like complete idiots and make the normal Saints fans like me and you look like fools too.

 

These posters like MLG and Olallana who think they speak for all Saints fans....... :facepalm:

 

Guys on the Rochdale forum have called it -

to know of all these things how many sites do you go on?
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I do chuckle at the 'if we had Suarez playing for us we'd be doing better' lines that are trotted out. Every team in the world could say the same if they had one of the best strikers in the world playing for them.

 

True, but signing a top class striker who isn't a mental case and hits the ground running would add some edge to our death by passing. It doesn't have to be specifically Suarez, but where we are now, anyone to improve the side is in pretty rarified territory and going to cost a chunk (hopefully offset by selling Osvaldo).

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The phrase " be careful what you wish for " springs immediately to mind when I read threads like this one !

Only a prat like Glasgow_Skate would isolate 18 matches and attempt to justify his baseless agenda like this !

Best just to treat him with the contempt he deserves !

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The phrase " be careful what you wish for " springs immediately to mind when I read threads like this one !

Only a prat like Glasgow_Skate would isolate 18 matches and attempt to justify his baseless agenda like this !

Best just to treat him with the contempt he deserves !

 

He got 3 pages out of it though. Credit where credit's due.

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