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Monk's Corner


Monk

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Firstly, I do not expect you to all agree or perhaps like the following post. I suggest you take a deep breath before you read:

 

Over the last five years, I have witnessed a number of bedwetters on this forum panicking from 'issues' such as not purchasing a player who posses pace, no weekly press statements regarding a stadium expansion to hideous car park charges. However, following our most successful and enjoyable season in the PL we now have a stomach churning summer which has a number of us questioning 'why we bother'?

 

Ultimately, we are not a big club. People come and go with ambitions to progress us and sometimes those ambitions have been reached. I urge you to bare in mind it is just as easier to fall from success than it is to maintain it (success in our case was cracking the top half with a philosophy). We as a fan base easily get carried away with anything, whether its positive or negative as opposed to just supporting our club.

 

However, the last few weeks I have found incredibly unsettling and uncomfortable as a large number of you have. The majority of you will respect the fact it is now the close season, the media go into overdrive with their imagination regarding transfers. There's much more column inches to fill daily now there is no PL/FL matches to cover, that's just how the English media is and we MUST get use to it. I do hate it when people say 'well you/we must be doing something right if clubs are interested in your players' - I can assure you, nobody knows this more than the fans that pay £40 a week to watch the team week in.

 

It is incredibly bizarre that we have endured our most successful campaign but have since lost our manager and potential 4 key players but as they say, that is football. It happened to Villa, Newcastle and Leeds for whatever reasons but it happened. I am not happy with the way the club has conducted itself from closed doors. My personal opinion is Southampton's board should of notified potential bidders/agents that any approaches for our players before the WC will be deemed as disrespectful and we will not take it lightly (no deal will be done with that club or run the risk of paying a higher fee).

 

I appreciate everybody is feeling the pinch of uncertainty around our club its completely valid, just take a deep breath as unfortunately we can only do one thing WAIT until the new management comes in.

 

Thunder is just a noise and it can't hurt you, when lightening does strike that's another bloody matter!

Edited by Monk
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Firstly, I do not expect you to all agree or perhaps like the following post. I suggest you take a deep breath before you read:

 

Over the last five years, I have witnessed a number of bedwetters on this forum panicking from 'issues' such as not purchasing a player who posses pace, no weekly press statements regarding a stadium expansion to hideous car park charges. However, following our most successful and enjoyable season in the PL we now have a stomach churning summer which has a number of us questioning 'why we bother'?

 

Ultimately, we are not a big club. People come and go with ambitions to progress us and sometimes those ambitions have been reached. I urge you to bare in mind it is just as easier to fall from success than it is to maintain it (success in our case was cracking the top half with a philosophy). We as a fan base easily get carried away with anything, whether its positive or negative as opposed to just supporting our club.

 

However, the last few weeks I have found incredibly unsettling and uncomfortable as a large number of you have. The majority of you will respect the fact it is now the close season, the media go into overdrive with their imagination regarding transfers. There's much more column inches to fill daily now there is no PL/FL matches to cover, that's just how the English media is and we MUST get use to it. I do hate it when people say 'well you/we must be doing something right if clubs are interested in your players' - I can assure you, nobody knows this more than the fans that pay £40 a week to watch the team week in.

 

It is incredibly bizarre that we have endured our most successful campaign but have since lost our manager and potential 4 key players but as they say, that is football. It happened to Villa, Newcastle and Leeds for whatever reasons but it happened. I am not happy with the way the club has conducted itself from closed doors. My personal opinion is Southampton's board should of notified potential bidders/agents that any approaches for our players before the WC will be deemed as disrespectful and we will not take it lightly (no deal will be done with that club or run the risk of paying a higher fee).

 

I appreciate everybody is feeling the pinch of uncertainty around our club its completely valid, just take a deep breath as unfortunately we can only do one thing WAIT until the new management comes in.

 

Thunder is just a noise and it can't hurt you, when lightening does strike that's another bloody matter!

 

Excellent post. Agree completely. We just have to wait and see.

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If players are clearly going, then why wait until after the WC - values won't change drastically.

 

Might as well get the deals done, move on and give our new Manager proper time to shape a squad that can actually compete at PL level.

 

No point delaying the invitable.

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I've never heard of a club losing their manager and their four best players in one transfer window. If that happens to us surely it is unprecedented?

 

For a club without huge financial problems/administration then yes, it must be. Especially at PL level.

 

Ultimately, it shows that we actually had a number of excellent players, and then with just two or three more, we could have challenged ourselves for at least 5th/6th next season.

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I've never heard of a club losing their manager and their four best players in one transfer window. If that happens to us surely it is unprecedented?

 

It will have happened but probably for clubs in a desperate financial situation.

 

If this is all a simple a case of us being a victim of our own success, we need strong leadership to keep what we can intact and diligently manage the situation, none of which appears to he happening.

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For a club without huge financial problems/administration then yes, it must be. Especially at PL level.

 

Ultimately, it shows that we actually had a number of excellent players, and then with just two or three more, we could have challenged ourselves for at least 5th/6th next season.

 

One of the mouth breathers will be along in a minute to quote you and start talking about financial restraints and how we can't spend 200M like City, completely missing the point in the process.

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If players are clearly going, then why wait until after the WC - values won't change drastically.

 

Might as well get the deals done, move on and give our new Manager proper time to shape a squad that can actually compete at PL level.

 

No point delaying the invitable.

 

 

Values could easily rise dramatically if they do well on the world stage.

 

Conversely, they could fall dramatically were they to get badly injured. Jayrod was hot property until the citeh game.

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It will have happened but probably for clubs in a desperate financial situation.

 

If this is all a simple a case of us being a victim of our own success, we need strong leadership to keep what we can intact and diligently manage the situation, none of which appears to he happening.

 

Agree with all of that. Good post.

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Might as well get the deals done, move on and give our new Manager proper time to shape a squad that can actually compete at PL level.

 

No point delaying the invitable.

 

There is this to consider. It looks like the new manager will have money to play with and a brief to build a squad in his image.

 

The problem with the timing is more the message it sends out to other players. It's all well and good planning to bring in a top class manager and quality players, but if you can't prove that to the players before you start selling then you'll plant that seed of doubt.

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Yup. Been chatting to SuperMikey & Pap on Twitter on similar lines.

 

I'm usually a pretty positive guy when it comes to Saints, especially on here. I've often been called a Happy or a Clapper.

 

But the uncertainty is what is really getting me at the moment. I just have no idea what is going on (that's not a call for the board to put out more statements). I cannot for the life of me remember a situation like this (yes, emotion may cloud my judgement on this one) after such a successful season. As others have said, I cannot think of any time where a club comes off the back of such a decent season, not in the financial mire and looks set to lose so many key personnel.

 

I expected outs, but I never expected to lose MP, 3/4 possibly 5 first team players. In even my worst case scenario I never saw Rickie leaving. I don't begrudge him it at all, I really don't. In other circumstances I'd be absolutely made up for the bloke (deep down I am really, but it's just a bit raw at the moment).

 

As I said, I'm not usually one for all the doomsday stuff, and yeah this isn't the end of the world and of course there will be a team next season, but I really have to say, recently I have been thinking the same thing as Monk. "What is the point?".

 

Why bother trying to develop your own players, recruiting good managers, building a decent infrastructure, if the second you have any kind of 'success' (it's depressing enough that an 8th place finish is seen as a success) the heart is ripped out of the team. Is this the best we can ever hope for?

 

I don't know, I'm probably just moaning, and venting a bit, and come August I probably will be back in the full swing of watching games and supporting the team. But, right now, my love for the game is being tested to a point it never has been previously.

 

So yeah, what is the point?

Edited by KelvinsRightGlove
Clearing some points up
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Yup. Been chatting to SuperMikey & Pap on Twitter on similar lines.

 

I'm usually a pretty positive guy when it comes to Saints, especially on here. I've often been called a Happy or a Clapper.

 

But the uncertainty is what is really getting me at the moment. I just have no idea what is going on (that's not a call for the board to put out more statements). I cannot for the life of me remember a situation like this (yes, emotion may cloud my judgement on this one) after such a successful season.

 

I expected outs, but I never expected to lose MP, 3/4 possibly 5 first team players. In even my worst case scenario I never saw Rickie leaving. I don't begrudge him it at all, I really don't. In other circumstances I'd be absolutely made up for the bloke (deep down I am really, but it's just a bit raw at the moment).

 

As I said, I'm not usually one for all the doomsday stuff, and yeah this isn't the end of the world and of course there will be a team next season, but I really have to say, recently I have been thinking the same thing as Monk. "What is the point?".

 

Why bother trying to develop your own players, recruiting good managers, building a decent infrastructure, if the second you have any kind of 'success' (it's depressing enough that an 8th place finish is seen as a success) the heart is ripped out of the team. Is this the best we can ever hope for?

 

I don't know, I'm probably just moaning, and venting a bit, and come August I probably will be back in the full swing of watching games and supporting the team. But, right now, my love for the game is being tested to a point it never has been previously.

 

So yeah, what is the point?

 

My sentiment exactly!

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Yup. Been chatting to SuperMikey & Pap on Twitter on similar lines.

 

I'm usually a pretty positive guy when it comes to Saints, especially on here. I've often been called a Happy or a Clapper.

 

But the uncertainty is what is really getting me at the moment. I just have no idea what is going on (that's not a call for the board to put out more statements). I cannot for the life of me remember a situation like this (yes, emotion may cloud my judgement on this one) after such a successful season. As others have said, I cannot think of any time where a club comes off the back of such a decent season, not in the financial mire and looks set to lose so many key personnel.

 

I expected outs, but I never expected to lose MP, 3/4 possibly 5 first team players. In even my worst case scenario I never saw Rickie leaving. I don't begrudge him it at all, I really don't. In other circumstances I'd be absolutely made up for the bloke (deep down I am really, but it's just a bit raw at the moment).

 

As I said, I'm not usually one for all the doomsday stuff, and yeah this isn't the end of the world and of course there will be a team next season, but I really have to say, recently I have been thinking the same thing as Monk. "What is the point?".

 

Why bother trying to develop your own players, recruiting good managers, building a decent infrastructure, if the second you have any kind of 'success' (it's depressing enough that an 8th place finish is seen as a success) the heart is ripped out of the team. Is this the best we can ever hope for?

 

I don't know, I'm probably just moaning, and venting a bit, and come August I probably will be back in the full swing of watching games and supporting the team. But, right now, my love for the game is being tested to a point it never has been previously.

 

So yeah, what is the point?

 

Hats off, smashes my post out of the water. My sentiments exactly.

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Monk I don't have an issue with our place in the football world and nor do I have the expectation that Saints will ever become any better than we are now. What I don't like to see is the club go through a period where it looks like several players will seek to move on and we have this situation at the club:

 

1. An unproven DoF of whom it is said players do not like

2. A DoF who is the only person on the Board to have experience of football

3. A Board who do not appear to be on the same page

4. A Chairman who makes public statements (and public speaking is something that is a strength of his) which in 24hrs time will appear like the fans are being lied to.

 

Managers and players come and go. We all accept that. But what we don't accept is a lack of a backbone and unqualified people in important roles running our club. It does not bode well.

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Finishing 8th - playing great football - seeing the first signs of real youth talent coming through into the 1st team. I think most supporters would expect enhancements in all aspects of the club from that great foundation, however it seems there's some serious unravelling of elements of the playing/coaching parts of the club while an expensive PR man and Marketing guru come in to sell the merits of the club! They've got an uphill task trying to promote a club that now appears to be in decline with a Chairman who is extremely economical with his facts.

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"I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand."

 

Maybe that helps explain it from my point of view... I never get my hopes up that much, so don't feel as bad right now.

 

Yes, I'm an optimist, but I've seen what can happen in football, so don't carried away. Last season was awesome, and it's bound to increase expectation, but as quickly as we rose, we could disappear again, so savour all those good moments, and don't take anything for granted.

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I said it on another thread, but I'll say it again. Atletico Madrid. They just won bloody La Liga and nearly the Champions League. But they could easily lose 4 first team players this summer. Are their fans whinging and moaning? Maybe they are. But the club will pick themselves up and get on with it, based on that fantastic 'us against the world' spirit that Simeone has created. Don't forget their entire first team that started against Real cost less than half a Gareth Bale.

 

So for me, the big question is not 'who leaves?' (however painful that may be) but 'who replaces them?'

 

That's really the only thing we can judge the board on, and we're just goign to have to bite our fingers to the bone and be patient.

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Finishing 8th - playing great football - seeing the first signs of real youth talent coming through into the 1st team. I think most supporters would expect enhancements in all aspects of the club from that great foundation, however it seems there's some serious unravelling of elements of the playing/coaching parts of the club while an expensive PR man and Marketing guru come in to sell the merits of the club! They've got an uphill task trying to promote a club that now appears to be in decline with a Chairman who is extremely economical with his facts.

 

Exactly. What players would ever want to come here this summer after all this? The message we are sending out is that we are a selling club in meltdown.

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I said it on another thread, but I'll say it again. Atletico Madrid. They just won bloody La Liga and nearly the Champions League. But they could easily lose 4 first team players this summer. Are their fans whinging and moaning? Maybe they are. But the club will pick themselves up and get on with it, based on that fantastic 'us against the world' spirit that Simeone has created. Don't forget their entire first team that started against Real cost less than half a Gareth Bale.

 

So for me, the big question is not 'who leaves?' (however painful that may be) but 'who replaces them?'

 

That's really the only thing we can judge the board on, and we're just goign to have to bite our fingers to the bone and be patient.

 

for every madrid, there is a leeds, sheff weds, villa, wolves

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I sort of agree with Monk, except unless you aim high you are always destined to fail.

 

None of the so called big clubs started in the top 4. Remember that. Man City were nothing until recently. Chelsea were top half before investment to 'cement' their position.

 

We can kick on. And we should always aim high. We can become a big club. If we don't aim to become one we will fall again.

 

You never have stability with mediocrity in sport, only with success.

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I said it on another thread, but I'll say it again. Atletico Madrid. They just won bloody La Liga and nearly the Champions League. But they could easily lose 4 first team players this summer. Are their fans whinging and moaning? Maybe they are. But the club will pick themselves up and get on with it, based on that fantastic 'us against the world' spirit that Simeone has created. Don't forget their entire first team that started against Real cost less than half a Gareth Bale.

 

So for me, the big question is not 'who leaves?' (however painful that may be) but 'who replaces them?'

 

That's really the only thing we can judge the board on, and we're just goign to have to bite our fingers to the bone and be patient.

 

I think most are annoyed at the wasted potential here to actually do something of note. Athletico fulfilled their potential so they can be rightly satisfied whatever happens. We never got close to ours and achieved very little by comparison.

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Yes it is all a bit galling and the phrase "victim of our own success" is a valid one. I will continue with my support but I am starting to think what is the point. Football as a sport has changed massively since the advent of the Premiership. It is now an absolute requisite that you have a benevolent billionaire as an owner to compete at the top.

 

Whilst we have had that to an extent over the last five years, once Marcus Liebherr passed away I always felt the rug could be tugged a tad and, worse case scenario, pulled completely from under our feet. So what does the future hold? A new manager will take time to settle and he will need to buy and buy quickly. One think is for sure, we have peaked and crucially I don't think there is enough football nous at the club, at present, to ensure we remain a Premiership club. I am not saying the intention/ambition is not there but this week has proved we lack the wherewithal.

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for every madrid, there is a leeds, sheff weds, villa, wolves

 

Yeah but the point is it can be done.

 

We've got the best academy in the country too.

 

So it feels really sh1t at the moment, but I'm reserving judgment until I see who's in the team for our first PL match in August, and who's sitting in the dug-out.

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Yep, dead on. Even if we agreed to lose MoPo, and say 4 or 5 players, there's a value to doing so in a slow, controlled way. Panic breeds panic. For a PR guy Kruger seems utterly clueless in presenting a strong face in negotiations.

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If Shaw goes to Man Utd for £30m, that pays for the training ground. From that base we can build on what we have. We are a mid table Premier League team in almost every aspect apart from our ability to produce wonderful young players.

I dont see that changing any time soon.

I dont think Rickie would have left for any other club, but Liverpool.

I would much rather just get on with it & accept the 4 or 5 are going then rebuild. Find young hungry players who want to progress. Players like Redmond, Zaha, Caulker etc. I am sure all of them would join Saints if they played regularly.

No doubt we need a striker (or 2), Targett was being talked of as a better player potentially than Shaw 18 months ago. If it werent for injury he may have played instead of him. If Chambers goes we have Clyne. If Morgan goes we have Wanyama & Cork.

We will never pay the wages the top 7 clubs pay. NEVER.

We would never have offered MP a 5 year contract!

I am no happy clapper, but I am a realist.

We will survive, we may not play the great football we played last year? We may try a bit harder in the cups? We may leave someone up at corners? We may have some pace in the side? We may increase the size of the stadium?

We are not as big a club as Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Tottenham, Everton, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle, Sunderland, Aston Villa etc. Accept it!

Its all maybe's & ifs.

Lets just get on with it & deal with the consequences!!

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Yeah but the point is it can be done.

 

We've got the best academy in the country too.

 

So it feels really sh1t at the moment, but I'm reserving judgment until I see who's in the team for our first PL match in August, and who's sitting in the dug-out.

it cant be done in england, which is all that matters

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People are quite understandably unrealistic about football. They always have and always will.

 

For some reason the heart takes over - why on earth do so many people appear to think that SFC players have the same love for the club as the supporters do? The vast majority of players don't with the club they play for, never have, never will. I am sure at some stage in one's life, you have dreamed about being the best player around and playing for no one but Saints. It doesn't work like that. There are very few Benalis and MLTs and maybe it is those two (or MLT) that has increased the unrealistic thoughts that players actually are happy to be at Saints all their career. One of the bigger clubs, yes, but not Saints.

 

And then there is the issue of money. As I have said many a time, football pre-PL was something completely different. I still yearn for those days, the days when the playing field was so much more level (even though certain clubs did dominate), when money wasn't the be all and end all. Then, we could compete. But those days are long long gone, never to return, and hence why I say I love Saints but hate football.

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Yup. Been chatting to SuperMikey & Pap on Twitter on similar lines.

 

I'm usually a pretty positive guy when it comes to Saints, especially on here. I've often been called a Happy or a Clapper.

 

But the uncertainty is what is really getting me at the moment. I just have no idea what is going on (that's not a call for the board to put out more statements). I cannot for the life of me remember a situation like this (yes, emotion may cloud my judgement on this one) after such a successful season. As others have said, I cannot think of any time where a club comes off the back of such a decent season, not in the financial mire and looks set to lose so many key personnel.

 

I expected outs, but I never expected to lose MP, 3/4 possibly 5 first team players. In even my worst case scenario I never saw Rickie leaving. I don't begrudge him it at all, I really don't. In other circumstances I'd be absolutely made up for the bloke (deep down I am really, but it's just a bit raw at the moment).

 

As I said, I'm not usually one for all the doomsday stuff, and yeah this isn't the end of the world and of course there will be a team next season, but I really have to say, recently I have been thinking the same thing as Monk. "What is the point?".

 

Why bother trying to develop your own players, recruiting good managers, building a decent infrastructure, if the second you have any kind of 'success' (it's depressing enough that an 8th place finish is seen as a success) the heart is ripped out of the team. Is this the best we can ever hope for?

 

I don't know, I'm probably just moaning, and venting a bit, and come August I probably will be back in the full swing of watching games and supporting the team. But, right now, my love for the game is being tested to a point it never has been previously.

 

So yeah, what is the point?

 

Nail on head.

 

It's even tarnished the world cup for me ... was hoping at least we could just enjoy watching saints players at the world cup first, even if we knew that there was an uncertain future thereafter.

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It could be a case of one or two steps backwards, two or three steps forward, we won’t know until the dust settles in August.

 

I hate to see Rickie leave, but deep down I’m happy for him, seems like such a nice bloke. I don’t feel the same about MP, always thought he would leave; we were always going to be just a stepping stone for him. If we lose Luke I’ll be disappointed, but as long as it’s for silly money I can live with it. If we lose any of Adam or Dejan or Morgan as well, now that would be depressing.

 

In my opinion this is recoverable situation. If the board appoints a quality manager quickly and shows some positive intent then the fans can be patient through the summer, but any more players leaving without a manager in place will completely erode any faith I have in this board.

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Change happens, fact. The board should only be judged on how they manage the change or preferably how they are prepared for change. If MP or RL leaving has come as a shock then I fear for us, if they are prepared for change then we cannot ask for much more.

 

One of Cortese's biggest pluses was that he was ahead of the game, lets see how the current board get on.

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Yup. Been chatting to SuperMikey & Pap on Twitter on similar lines.

 

I'm usually a pretty positive guy when it comes to Saints, especially on here. I've often been called a Happy or a Clapper.

 

But the uncertainty is what is really getting me at the moment. I just have no idea what is going on (that's not a call for the board to put out more statements). I cannot for the life of me remember a situation like this (yes, emotion may cloud my judgement on this one) after such a successful season. As others have said, I cannot think of any time where a club comes off the back of such a decent season, not in the financial mire and looks set to lose so many key personnel.

 

I expected outs, but I never expected to lose MP, 3/4 possibly 5 first team players. In even my worst case scenario I never saw Rickie leaving. I don't begrudge him it at all, I really don't. In other circumstances I'd be absolutely made up for the bloke (deep down I am really, but it's just a bit raw at the moment).

 

As I said, I'm not usually one for all the doomsday stuff, and yeah this isn't the end of the world and of course there will be a team next season, but I really have to say, recently I have been thinking the same thing as Monk. "What is the point?".

 

Why bother trying to develop your own players, recruiting good managers, building a decent infrastructure, if the second you have any kind of 'success' (it's depressing enough that an 8th place finish is seen as a success) the heart is ripped out of the team. Is this the best we can ever hope for?

 

I don't know, I'm probably just moaning, and venting a bit, and come August I probably will be back in the full swing of watching games and supporting the team. But, right now, my love for the game is being tested to a point it never has been previously.

 

So yeah, what is the point?

 

If I had summarised my thoughts as well as you I maybe could have avoided the abuse and ridicule over the last few weeks. Good post.

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Yup. Been chatting to SuperMikey & Pap on Twitter on similar lines.

 

I'm usually a pretty positive guy when it comes to Saints, especially on here. I've often been called a Happy or a Clapper.

 

But the uncertainty is what is really getting me at the moment. I just have no idea what is going on (that's not a call for the board to put out more statements). I cannot for the life of me remember a situation like this (yes, emotion may cloud my judgement on this one) after such a successful season. As others have said, I cannot think of any time where a club comes off the back of such a decent season, not in the financial mire and looks set to lose so many key personnel.

 

I expected outs, but I never expected to lose MP, 3/4 possibly 5 first team players. In even my worst case scenario I never saw Rickie leaving. I don't begrudge him it at all, I really don't. In other circumstances I'd be absolutely made up for the bloke (deep down I am really, but it's just a bit raw at the moment).

 

As I said, I'm not usually one for all the doomsday stuff, and yeah this isn't the end of the world and of course there will be a team next season, but I really have to say, recently I have been thinking the same thing as Monk. "What is the point?".

 

Why bother trying to develop your own players, recruiting good managers, building a decent infrastructure, if the second you have any kind of 'success' (it's depressing enough that an 8th place finish is seen as a success) the heart is ripped out of the team. Is this the best we can ever hope for?

 

I don't know, I'm probably just moaning, and venting a bit, and come August I probably will be back in the full swing of watching games and supporting the team. But, right now, my love for the game is being tested to a point it never has been previously.

 

So yeah, what is the point?

 

If I had summarised my thoughts as well as you I maybe could have avoided the abuse and ridicule over the last few weeks. Good post.

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Yup. Been chatting to SuperMikey & Pap on Twitter on similar lines.

 

I'm usually a pretty positive guy when it comes to Saints, especially on here. I've often been called a Happy or a Clapper.

 

But the uncertainty is what is really getting me at the moment. I just have no idea what is going on (that's not a call for the board to put out more statements). I cannot for the life of me remember a situation like this (yes, emotion may cloud my judgement on this one) after such a successful season. As others have said, I cannot think of any time where a club comes off the back of such a decent season, not in the financial mire and looks set to lose so many key personnel.

 

I expected outs, but I never expected to lose MP, 3/4 possibly 5 first team players. In even my worst case scenario I never saw Rickie leaving. I don't begrudge him it at all, I really don't. In other circumstances I'd be absolutely made up for the bloke (deep down I am really, but it's just a bit raw at the moment).

 

As I said, I'm not usually one for all the doomsday stuff, and yeah this isn't the end of the world and of course there will be a team next season, but I really have to say, recently I have been thinking the same thing as Monk. "What is the point?".

 

Why bother trying to develop your own players, recruiting good managers, building a decent infrastructure, if the second you have any kind of 'success' (it's depressing enough that an 8th place finish is seen as a success) the heart is ripped out of the team. Is this the best we can ever hope for?

 

I don't know, I'm probably just moaning, and venting a bit, and come August I probably will be back in the full swing of watching games and supporting the team. But, right now, my love for the game is being tested to a point it never has been previously.

 

So yeah, what is the point?

 

And this is it, I'm not sure whether it's a case of being disillussioned with Saints, but more being disillusioned with football full stop.

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There is this to consider. It looks like the new manager will have money to play with and a brief to build a squad in his image.

 

The problem with the timing is more the message it sends out to other players. It's all well and good planning to bring in a top class manager and quality players, but if you can't prove that to the players before you start selling then you'll plant that seed of doubt.

 

Really ?? How much ?? Where did you hear that rumour ??

 

(If you mean Sell before Buying, that doesn't count. You are only standing still at best

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Yes it is all a bit galling and the phrase "victim of our own success" is a valid one. I will continue with my support but I am starting to think what is the point. Football as a sport has changed massively since the advent of the Premiership. It is now an absolute requisite that you have a benevolent billionaire as an owner to compete at the top.

 

Whilst we have had that to an extent over the last five years, once Marcus Liebherr passed away I always felt the rug could be tugged a tad and, worse case scenario, pulled completely from under our feet. So what does the future hold? A new manager will take time to settle and he will need to buy and buy quickly. One think is for sure, we have peaked and crucially I don't think there is enough football nous at the club, at present, to ensure we remain a Premiership club. I am not saying the intention/ambition is not there but this week has proved we lack the wherewithal.

 

I have been on this message board for many years. When I read this from Fitz - a historian and fanatic fan who has forgotten more about this great club that many of us will ever learn in a lifetime - it makes me very very sad.

 

I happen to agree with him. I can't help but see many parallels with what is happening now with WGS' resignation and exit from 8th place. I am not sure I want to watch Les Reed, KL and Krueger becoming the new Rupert Lowe's of Southampton history.

 

I hope Les Reed can stabilise this club fast.

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Exactly. What players would ever want to come here this summer after all this? The message we are sending out is that we are a selling club in meltdown.

 

What players would come here after this?

 

Well, let's see. I suspect that quite a few players would be attracted to come here if we appointed a top rate manager, you know, somebody better known than Pochettino was when he arrived. That didn't prevent us signing the likes of Wanyama, Lovren or Osvaldo, (crap as he turned out to be). We are yet to know who that manager is to be, so a bit premature to make sweeping generalisations at this stage, eh? Naturally, in the same way that Pochettino is hoping to take some of our star players with him, the new manager could very well bring several of his former club's star players with him too.

 

And then there are all the other possibilities to consider. We could attract a player from the lower divisions like Lambert, who is going to giants Liverpool. Or we could attract the next Rodriguez. There are players like Cork or Sinclair, who belonged to top teams like Chelsea and City, but are now surplus to requirements. Any of the players lower than us in 8th, would see it as a step up. Additionally, there are dozens of decent players sat warming benches of the bigger teams who might be open to playing regular football for us instead. Or we could sign any number of players like Swansea did with Michu, who didn't cost much, but was a revelation when he arrived there last season. And then of course, there are the up and coming academy players, the next batch who will or could replace the likes of Shaw, Lallana, Chambers, Ward-Prowse, who when all is said and done, were virtually unknown quantities until they hit the first team.

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Firstly, I do not expect you to all agree or perhaps like the following post. I suggest you take a deep breath before you read:

 

Over the last five years, I have witnessed a number of bedwetters on this forum panicking from 'issues' such as not purchasing a player who posses pace, no weekly press statements regarding a stadium expansion to hideous car park charges. However, following our most successful and enjoyable season in the PL we now have a stomach churning summer which has a number of us questioning 'why we bother'?

 

Ultimately, we are not a big club. People come and go with ambitions to progress us and sometimes those ambitions have been reached. I urge you to bare in mind it is just as easier to fall from success than it is to maintain it (success in our case was cracking the top half with a philosophy). We as a fan base easily get carried away with anything, whether its positive or negative as opposed to just supporting our club.

 

However, the last few weeks I have found incredibly unsettling and uncomfortable as a large number of you have. The majority of you will respect the fact it is now the close season, the media go into overdrive with their imagination regarding transfers. There's much more column inches to fill daily now there is no PL/FL matches to cover, that's just how the English media is and we MUST get use to it. I do hate it when people say 'well you/we must be doing something right if clubs are interested in your players' - I can assure you, nobody knows this more than the fans that pay £40 a week to watch the team week in.

 

It is incredibly bizarre that we have endured our most successful campaign but have since lost our manager and potential 4 key players but as they say, that is football. It happened to Villa, Newcastle and Leeds for whatever reasons but it happened. I am not happy with the way the club has conducted itself from closed doors. My personal opinion is Southampton's board should of notified potential bidders/agents that any approaches for our players before the WC will be deemed as disrespectful and we will not take it lightly (no deal will be done with that club or run the risk of paying a higher fee).

 

I appreciate everybody is feeling the pinch of uncertainty around our club its completely valid, just take a deep breath as unfortunately we can only do one thing WAIT until the new management comes in.

 

Thunder is just a noise and it can't hurt you, when lightening does strike that's another bloody matter!

 

Thank you Monk. It is quite normal and acceptable for team to be adding and losing two to three players a season. It is the stated philosophy of the club to bring players through, buy unknown or good value players and sell them when their value is at the maximum. That is why, although I am disappointed to see players I enjoy watch leave, I have no problem with losing Lallana or Lambert to big moves at the stages of the career that they are at. I would be disappointed to lose Shaw, but it is not bad business to let him go if we are getting 30 million for a player with 60 odd starts.

 

If we can keep the departures to those three and spend the money wisely this helps the sustainability of the club, and until we can get more revenue from other commercial sources, selling players for a profit is not a bad thing.

 

I started taking my grandchildren to some matches this season, they loved it. I have been watching Saints for the best part of fifty years, I want my grandchildren to be able to do the same.

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If Shaw goes to Man Utd for £30m, that pays for the training ground. From that base we can build on what we have. We are a mid table Premier League team in almost every aspect apart from our ability to produce wonderful young players.

I dont see that changing any time soon.

I dont think Rickie would have left for any other club, but Liverpool.

I would much rather just get on with it & accept the 4 or 5 are going then rebuild. Find young hungry players who want to progress. Players like Redmond, Zaha, Caulker etc. I am sure all of them would join Saints if they played regularly.

No doubt we need a striker (or 2), Targett was being talked of as a better player potentially than Shaw 18 months ago. If it werent for injury he may have played instead of him. If Chambers goes we have Clyne. If Morgan goes we have Wanyama & Cork.

We will never pay the wages the top 7 clubs pay. NEVER.

We would never have offered MP a 5 year contract!

I am no happy clapper, but I am a realist.

We will survive, we may not play the great football we played last year? We may try a bit harder in the cups? We may leave someone up at corners? We may have some pace in the side? We may increase the size of the stadium?

We are not as big a club as Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Tottenham, Everton, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle, Sunderland, Aston Villa etc. Accept it!

Its all maybe's & ifs.

Lets just get on with it & deal with the consequences!!

 

Good post fella but your Target/ Shaw comment way off the mark. My cousin is in the youth team, same age as the lads you mention. Believe me, never in the last 4 years has Target been mentioned (internally anyway) as on Shaw's level. Injury or not. Target is a prospect, always been seen that way, but Shaw was destined for the 1st team from 14/ 15 years old. Target still has time to develop, but from what I know if he becomes anywhere near as Luke I'll be surprised (but very, very happy).

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Yup. Been chatting to SuperMikey & Pap on Twitter on similar lines.

 

I'm usually a pretty positive guy when it comes to Saints, especially on here. I've often been called a Happy or a Clapper.

 

But the uncertainty is what is really getting me at the moment. I just have no idea what is going on (that's not a call for the board to put out more statements). I cannot for the life of me remember a situation like this (yes, emotion may cloud my judgement on this one) after such a successful season. As others have said, I cannot think of any time where a club comes off the back of such a decent season, not in the financial mire and looks set to lose so many key personnel.

 

I expected outs, but I never expected to lose MP, 3/4 possibly 5 first team players. In even my worst case scenario I never saw Rickie leaving. I don't begrudge him it at all, I really don't. In other circumstances I'd be absolutely made up for the bloke (deep down I am really, but it's just a bit raw at the moment).

 

As I said, I'm not usually one for all the doomsday stuff, and yeah this isn't the end of the world and of course there will be a team next season, but I really have to say, recently I have been thinking the same thing as Monk. "What is the point?".

 

Why bother trying to develop your own players, recruiting good managers, building a decent infrastructure, if the second you have any kind of 'success' (it's depressing enough that an 8th place finish is seen as a success) the heart is ripped out of the team. Is this the best we can ever hope for?

 

I don't know, I'm probably just moaning, and venting a bit, and come August I probably will be back in the full swing of watching games and supporting the team. But, right now, my love for the game is being tested to a point it never has been previously.

 

So yeah, what is the point?

 

Absolutely spot on. I don't think you're moaning at all. Between Monk and yourself I think you've basically summed up how the majority of Saints supporters are feeling right now.

 

I think most are annoyed at the wasted potential here to actually do something of note.

 

Key. I may have been any easy mark due to our progress in the last 5 years but 5-6 months ago I really started to believe that as a club we could go on to do something special. It's such a shame to throw it all away when we were so close.

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Thanks everyone. It's a nice change to not have post torn to shreds, people don't often agree with me. It's a shame this is what people do agree with me on.

 

Hats off, smashes my post out of the water. My sentiments exactly.

 

Don't be daft, I was simply agreeing with what was a fine post to start with.

 

And this is it, I'm not sure whether it's a case of being disillussioned with Saints, but more being disillusioned with football full stop.

 

Yeah, fair point. I'm not even angry at people really. I don't now what more the board could have done about MP, I'm not convinced a great deal more could have been done. As I said, deep down as much as it hurts, I'm made up for Rickie. If I was him I'd be gone in a flash, of course you would. Lallana, Shaw yes it's disappointing. But I don't know what else could be done.

 

It does just seem a problem with football.

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I think most are annoyed at the wasted potential here to actually do something of note. Athletico fulfilled their potential so they can be rightly satisfied whatever happens. We never got close to ours and achieved very little by comparison.

 

Good post, summed up my feelings in a very succinct way. Totally agree. It's just a feeling of 'if only'.

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It seems clear to me that there's a massive cultural shift occurring inside the club, and we’re going to have to be very patient while it plays out. All this panic and vitriolic criticism without facts to support it will not help anyone.

 

The first element of the shift was triggered by the Cortese situation and the fact that he controlled everything and didn't feel anywhere near as subservient to Katharina as he did to Markus. That was always an accident waiting to happen.

 

The second element of the shift was that Cortese hired a manager who demanded complete loyalty from the players but also gave it back - at least to some. He created an almost cult-like presence inside the player group, so - if he left - some of the favoured few would probably want to leave as well. I suspect that some of those players have known for some time - at least since Cortese went - that Pochettino was not long for the club.

 

The Cortese/Pochettino axis had the club by the nuts, and Les Reed was probably - from most angles - an outsider and perhaps even something of a joke. That is a huge problem if the only person in the current SFC hierarchy who knows something about football is someone they don’t like or respect.

 

The culture shift was necessary because the situation was unsustainable. All the important things at SFC were controlled by an egomaniac control freak and a manager whose aspirations (at least after Cortese went and probably before) lay elsewhere. The very things that made us better would also eventually destroy us.

 

When it dawns on the players that, while Pochettino made them better he also used them and left them behind when it suited him, things will stabilize, but one thing has to happen before we get there. We have to hire a manager capable of inspiring loyalty and excitement. Leaderless, the players are doing their own thinking right now, and footballers aren’t always the smartest of people in situations like that - especially when their main counsel comes from their self-serving agents.

 

The leadership for the player group has to come from the new manager because it almost certainly, I suspect, won’t come from Les Reed.

 

I stand by my view that Ralph is a major positive in this situation – as long as he stays away from the dressing room and as long as he doesn’t allow Les Reed to make all the football decisions without some oversight. I really, really hope that Ralph and Katharina are using an outside consultant to help them keep a handle on the playing side without relying entirely on Reed.

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Yup. Been chatting to SuperMikey & Pap on Twitter on similar lines.

 

I'm usually a pretty positive guy when it comes to Saints, especially on here. I've often been called a Happy or a Clapper.

 

But the uncertainty is what is really getting me at the moment. I just have no idea what is going on (that's not a call for the board to put out more statements). I cannot for the life of me remember a situation like this (yes, emotion may cloud my judgement on this one) after such a successful season. As others have said, I cannot think of any time where a club comes off the back of such a decent season, not in the financial mire and looks set to lose so many key personnel.

 

I expected outs, but I never expected to lose MP, 3/4 possibly 5 first team players. In even my worst case scenario I never saw Rickie leaving. I don't begrudge him it at all, I really don't. In other circumstances I'd be absolutely made up for the bloke (deep down I am really, but it's just a bit raw at the moment).

 

As I said, I'm not usually one for all the doomsday stuff, and yeah this isn't the end of the world and of course there will be a team next season, but I really have to say, recently I have been thinking the same thing as Monk. "What is the point?".

 

Why bother trying to develop your own players, recruiting good managers, building a decent infrastructure, if the second you have any kind of 'success' (it's depressing enough that an 8th place finish is seen as a success) the heart is ripped out of the team. Is this the best we can ever hope for?

 

I don't know, I'm probably just moaning, and venting a bit, and come August I probably will be back in the full swing of watching games and supporting the team. But, right now, my love for the game is being tested to a point it never has been previously.

 

So yeah, what is the point?

 

Golden post that...loved to been able to express my feelings as well as that.

Thanks for posting that on my behalf..

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It seems clear to me that there's a massive cultural shift occurring inside the club, and we’re going to have to be very patient while it plays out. All this panic and vitriolic criticism without facts to support it will not help anyone.

 

The first element of the shift was triggered by the Cortese situation and the fact that he controlled everything and didn't feel anywhere near as subservient to Katharina as he did to Markus. That was always an accident waiting to happen.

 

The second element of the shift was that Cortese hired a manager who demanded complete loyalty from the players but also gave it back - at least to some. He created an almost cult-like presence inside the player group, so - if he left - some of the favoured few would probably want to leave as well. I suspect that some of those players have known for some time - at least since Cortese went - that Pochettino was not long for the club.

 

The Cortese/Pochettino axis had the club by the nuts, and Les Reed was probably - from most angles - an outsider and perhaps even something of a joke. That is a huge problem if the only person in the current SFC hierarchy who knows something about football is someone they don’t like or respect.

 

The culture shift was necessary because the situation was unsustainable. All the important things at SFC were controlled by an egomaniac control freak and a manager whose aspirations (at least after Cortese went and probably before) lay elsewhere. The very things that made us better would also eventually destroy us.

 

When it dawns on the players that, while Pochettino made them better he also used them and left them behind when it suited him, things will stabilize, but one thing has to happen before we get there. We have to hire a manager capable of inspiring loyalty and excitement. Leaderless, the players are doing their own thinking right now, and footballers aren’t always the smartest of people in situations like that - especially when their main counsel comes from their self-serving agents.

 

The leadership for the player group has to come from the new manager because it almost certainly, I suspect, won’t come from Les Reed.

 

I stand by my view that Ralph is a major positive in this situation – as long as he stays away from the dressing room and as long as he doesn’t allow Les Reed to make all the football decisions without some oversight. I really, really hope that Ralph and Katharina are using an outside consultant to help them keep a handle on the playing side without relying entirely on Reed.

 

Agree with all of that until your very last paragraph. For me the the jury is so far out on Ralph etc I can barely see them in the distance.

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Yup. Been chatting to SuperMikey & Pap on Twitter on similar lines.

 

I'm usually a pretty positive guy when it comes to Saints, especially on here. I've often been called a Happy or a Clapper.

 

But the uncertainty is what is really getting me at the moment. I just have no idea what is going on (that's not a call for the board to put out more statements). I cannot for the life of me remember a situation like this (yes, emotion may cloud my judgement on this one) after such a successful season. As others have said, I cannot think of any time where a club comes off the back of such a decent season, not in the financial mire and looks set to lose so many key personnel.

 

I expected outs, but I never expected to lose MP, 3/4 possibly 5 first team players. In even my worst case scenario I never saw Rickie leaving. I don't begrudge him it at all, I really don't. In other circumstances I'd be absolutely made up for the bloke (deep down I am really, but it's just a bit raw at the moment).

 

As I said, I'm not usually one for all the doomsday stuff, and yeah this isn't the end of the world and of course there will be a team next season, but I really have to say, recently I have been thinking the same thing as Monk. "What is the point?".

 

Why bother trying to develop your own players, recruiting good managers, building a decent infrastructure, if the second you have any kind of 'success' (it's depressing enough that an 8th place finish is seen as a success) the heart is ripped out of the team. Is this the best we can ever hope for?

 

I don't know, I'm probably just moaning, and venting a bit, and come August I probably will be back in the full swing of watching games and supporting the team. But, right now, my love for the game is being tested to a point it never has been previously.

 

So yeah, what is the point?

I agree with pretty much all of this. And, yeah, what is the point? There was a lot of similar debate during the time of Lowe when a lot of emphasis was put on the youth team at the expense of the first team. It was clear then that anyone good that came through the youth team would be sold. It looks like that model is returning and that we will never have the full benefit of the academy if the board are not strong enough to hold onto the prospects until they have fully contributed to the cause. At least the top four teams will be happy. They don't need to bother too much about their own academies and youth development because they have us doing it for them.
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I think most are annoyed at the wasted potential here to actually do something of note. Athletico fulfilled their potential so they can be rightly satisfied whatever happens. We never got close to ours and achieved very little by comparison.

 

This.

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I think I see this situation as a father would to a son who had so much potential and just blew it. I'm not upset or angry, just really disappointed.

 

Nice analogy, it sums up how I feel when feeling a bit down about Saints. However, I'm usually positive and when I heard Ronald Kuman was a possible next manager then I start to feel very positive - check out his record - if this happens this would be a possible two steps up from Poch!!!

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Nice analogy, it sums up how I feel when feeling a bit down about Saints. However, I'm usually positive and when I heard Ronald Kuman was a possible next manager then I start to feel very positive - check out his record - if this happens this would be a possible two steps up from Poch!!!

 

 

Not his record in Spain it wouldn't be, Dutch football is poor, no great relevance to the PL.

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