England National Anthem

[pap]

Close enough to a democracy sunshine. Do you operate to a different calendar as the reference point is the birth of Christ and surely your compliance means acceptance?

 

Speak for yourself, kneeler. We're not all stuck in stardate -382528.58299812785, y'know.

[revolution saint]

Nice to see a healthy dose of republicanism running through this thread. Personally can't stand GSTQ for reasons already expressed and always either turn the sound down on the TV or if at an event then sit down (did this at the cup final in '03 - didn't notice anyone else doing it but what the hell).

[suewhistle]

Spot On!

 

I know what I am doing for the rest of the day now - Transcribing that for guitar and learning it!

 

I have a gig next week; this will go down brilliantly.

 

Thank you Sue (and MLG for the link)

 

De nada! I did look on youtube but didn't find that. Keep on meaning to learn it myself - for unaccompanied singing.

 

I'm not a monarchist or believe in god, but I'll sing the national anthem, just as I might sing a border ballad about incest and murder or a hunting song without believing in any of those activities! It would be nice to have a better alternative though.

[whelk]

Speak for yourself, kneeler. We're not all stuck in stardate -382528.58299812785, y'know.

 

What is a kneeler?

[pap]

What is a kneeler?

 

Someone who bends the knee.

 

A subject. A supplicant.

 

Worse quality than the monarchy, and knows it too.

[CB Fry]

Someone who bends the knee.

 

A subject. A supplicant.

 

Worse quality than the monarchy, and knows it too.

What's the name for someone who thinks 9/11 was, like, all made up and that?

[whelk]

Not sure I am any the wiser but thanks anyway

[Batman]

What's the name for someone who thinks 9/11 was, like, all made up and that?

 

A Muslim?

[pap]

What's the name for someone who thinks 9/11 was, like, all made up and that?

 

Any of the antonyms for gullible, I suppose.

 

Have you got the old priest and the young priest yet? I've heard we need both of them.

[LuckyNumber7]

I don't believe in god and hate the royal family, I wouldn't sing it either. As said it's not even an English song ffs. Not singing that terrible dirge is in no way representative of a lack of passion or desire to win. Needs changing.

[SW5 SAINT]

I'd rather have the Queen as my head of state than some of the self-interest career politician muppets that get voted into power....

 

I have to agree with this, but don't count myself as a monarchist. Why do England still persist with God save the Queen as the national anthem. The world over, so many other countries Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Scotland etc who used to have GStQ as their national anthem, have in the last 50 years all sort something much more in keeping with their own individual identities.

[Patrick Bateman]

"Land of hope and glory" is a song about a Christian God and Empire building. I think we should stay clear of it representing the views of a country as a whole.

 

You really are a helmet.

[Matthew Le God]

'Land of Hope' would be good

 

"Land of hope and glory" is a song about a Christian God and Empire building. I think we should stay clear of it representing the views of a country as a whole.

 

You really are a helmet.

 

I'd say that applies more to someone who makes petty insults and doesn't explain why they disagree with a point.

[Wade Garrett]

I'd say that applies more to someone who makes petty insults and doesn't explain why they disagree with a point.

 

Do you wear yellow dungarees and frown on competitive sport in schools?

[Matthew Le God]

Do you wear yellow dungarees and frown on competitive sport in schools?

 

Nope. Never owned a pair of dungarees and I think competitive sport in schools is a very good thing.

 

What I object to is a sweeping generalisation that in order to be patriotic you have to support the monarchy and believe in the Christian God. Something which isn't the case for a very high % of the population of this country, so it isn't a representative anthem at all. Rather than follow along like sheep just because it is "tradition", how about have a national anthem that doesn't alienate people from being patroitic?

 

The sign of someone without a strong point is resorting to petty personal insults. Something that applies to a number of people in this thread who have been supporting the monarchy and the Christian God inclusion in the national anthem. They don't have a rational argument, so start making irrational insults.

Edited 21 June, 2014 by Matthew Le God

[ericb]

Lol - many sounding like scousers or Celtic fans. Republican cvnts fck off and join ISIS.

 

Lol at the irony of someone not understanding that ISIS is closer aligned to the monarchy (leadership and power defined by religious choice and with no democratic process) than to republicanism.

 

Bloody dirge of an anthem it is and i'd never be seen dead singing it as i don't believe in either the monarchy or god.

[revolution saint]

Do you wear yellow dungarees and frown on competitive sport in schools?

 

Do you dress up in skirts and call yourself Mavis?

[Wade Garrett]

Nope. Never owned a pair of dungarees and I think competitive sport in schools is a very good thing.

 

What I object to is a sweeping generalisation that in order to be patriotic you have to support the monarchy and believe in the Christian God. Something which isn't the case for a very high % of the population of this country, so it isn't a representative anthem at all. Rather than follow along like sheep just because it is "tradition", how about have a national anthem that doesn't alienate people from being patroitic?

 

The sign of someone without a strong point is resorting to petty personal insults. Something that applies to a number of people in this thread who have been supporting the monarchy and the Christian God inclusion in the national anthem. They don't have a rational argument, so start making irrational insults.

 

Thanks for making your position clear. I should have got it after your 500th post on the subject, but I wasn't quite sure.

[Wade Garrett]

Do you dress up in skirts and call yourself Mavis?

 

Only on Sundays.

[Matthew Le God]

Thanks for making your position clear. I should have got it after your 500th post on the subject, but I wasn't quite sure.

 

I still don't fully know your position as all you've done so far is throw petty insults. Can you explain why you think a nation of 60 million people should have a national anthem about the Christian God and a monarch?

 

The U.S. constitution separates church and state (despite what the Bible belt may think), it would be good if the British did the same.

Edited 21 June, 2014 by Matthew Le God

[whelk]

Lol at so many taking a tongue in cheek comment and replying seriously. So many scholars amongst us.

[whelk]

I still don't fully know your position as all you've done so far is throw petty insults. Can you explain why you think a nation of 60 million people should have a national anthem about the Christian God and a monarch?

 

The U.S. constitution separates church and state (despite what the Bible belt may think), it would be good if the British did the same.

 

I bet you have a fish with Darwin written in the middle. Gee I love those evangelical guys who are keen to tell people what to think.

[Matthew Le God]

I bet you have a fish with Darwin written in the middle.

 

I don't.

 

Do you not believe in evolution then?

 

Gee I love those evangelical guys who are keen to tell people what to think.

 

I think you need to look up the definition of evangelical.

[revolution saint]

Lol at so many taking a tongue in cheek comment and replying seriously. So many scholars amongst us.

 

Ha ha, I love it when people lose an argument and then say "it's just a joke".

 

I bet you have a fish with Darwin written in the middle. Gee I love those evangelical guys who are keen to tell people what to think.

 

I don't think science tells people what to think - it offers proof and is open to questioning. Religion on the other hand..... Anyway, you'll be pleased to note my 3 posts for the day are up so to summarise - GSTQ is a rubbish anthem whether you believe in either a monarchy or a christian god, monarchy and hereditary rule is logically indefensible, and god probably doesn't exist.

[ponto1963]

Still should be jarusalem

 

agreed you don't hear the Scots or Welsh sing "God Save The Queen !!!!"

Its the British anthem not the English

[whelk]

I don't.

 

Do you not believe in evolution then?

 

 

 

I think you need to look up the definition of evangelical.

 

I give up. You do not appear to see the humour. Often a case with zealous atheists keen to show everyone how intelligent they are when reality is probably emotional scarring for some reason and have anger towards 'made up God' But having read/struggled through A Brief History of Time / The selfish Gene they feel oh so empowered.

The irony is you are probably as intolerant of opposing views as the religious bigots who so anger you.

[Matthew Le God]

I give up. You do not appear to see the humour. Often a case with zealous atheists keen to show everyone how intelligent they are when reality is probably emotional scarring for some reason and have anger towards 'made up God' But having read/struggled through A Brief History of Time / The selfish Gene they feel oh so empowered.

The irony is you are probably as intolerant of opposing views as the religious bigots who so anger you.

 

I respect those with a rational argument no matter what they believe, but I'm yet to see any rational argument from anyone religious as to why their version of God is correct and everyone else's is wrong. Is it really too much to ask for mankind in the 21st century to use rational arguements?

 

Can you outline a rational argument why the Christian God exists and all the other 10,000+ deities recorded in human history are wrong?

[whelk]

Ha ha, I love it when people lose an argument and then say "it's just a joke".

 

 

 

I don't think science tells people what to think - it offers proof and is open to questioning. Religion on the other hand..... Anyway, you'll be pleased to note my 3 posts for the day are up so to summarise - GSTQ is a rubbish anthem whether you believe in either a monarchy or a christian god, monarchy and hereditary rule is logically indefensible, and god probably doesn't exist.

 

Yeah I feel like I lost. All the I hate the queen and don't believe in God so defeated me.

 

The shame how do I back down? Oh pretend it was a joke. Good an out to save face amongst so many of the I 'ate the bloody queen and she ain't even voted in.

TBH mate if I started agreeing with the idiots on here I would have cause to worry. Few exceptions but they're not the smartest most informed circle.

[whelk]

I respect those with a rational argument no matter what they believe, but I'm yet to see any rational argument from anyone religious as to why their version of God is correct and everyone else's is wrong. Is it really too much to ask for mankind in the 21st century to use rational arguements?

 

Can you outline a rational argument why the Christian God exists and all the other 10,000+ deities recorded in human history are wrong?

 

Don't think I could on a football message board. Interesting you assume I believe in God though.

It doesn't upset me being in the national anthem is not the same.

[whelk]

And MLG you seem a research sort of guy. Be interested in words of teh other national anthems and how relevant they are to today's society within those countries. Don't know why Evra and co belt out The Marseillaise. They should be safe now they are millionaires so what are they singing about? Fools

[simo]

Surely someone needs too start a petition to get it changed , it should be for/about the country not the monarch of that country imo

[Matthew Le God]

And MLG you seem a research sort if guy. Be interested in words of teh other national anthems and how relevant they are to today's society within those countries. Don't know why Evra and co belt out The Marseillaise. They should be save now they are millionaires so what are they singing about? Fools

 

The same probably does apply to a lot of countries as most anthems go back in time to an era before parts of Western Europe for example were largely secular. Change doesn't go down well with some people and they hold onto traditions for better or worse. About time mankind moved on from bronze age myths when they couldn't explain things so used a God to fill the knowledge gap in their understanding of the world around them.

[jamesfp1]

Gods aren't real.

 

Religions are dangerous / a plague on our species.

 

National anthems are outdated, meaningless and silly, but singing them as a part of tradition or a way of supporting your national team is absolutely fine IMO.

[Matthew Le God]

Gods aren't real.

 

Religions are dangerous / a plague on our species.

 

National anthems are outdated, meaningless and silly, but singing them as a part of tradition or a way of supporting your national team is absolutely fine IMO.

 

Given what you said in the first two sentences, how can you then sing a national anthem with God and monarchy at its core passionately if you don't agree with its sentiment?

[jamesfp1]

Given what you said in the first two sentences, how can you then sing a national anthem with God and monarchy at its core passionately if you don't agree with its sentiment?

 

I don't. But if others choose to do so it doesn't bother me.

[Matthew Le God]

I don't. But if others choose to do so it doesn't bother me.

 

Would it not be better if the anthem was something every Englishman could sing with passion about his country at sporting events?

[jamesfp1]

Would it not be better if the anthem was something every Englishman could sing with passion about his country at sporting events?

It would, but I am a realist and I know it will be decades before that happens, so I just let them get on with it. For now just put three lions on.

[Ohio Saint]

I bet you have a fish with Darwin written in the middle. Gee I love those evangelical guys who are keen to tell people what to think.

 

If anyone had a Darwin fish thing, would it be any worse than having a cross or a legless fish?

[View From The Top]

I tend to sing verse six of GSTQ, the last line begrudgingly.

 

Like many I don't believe that either religion or the monarchy has a place in the modern world and shouldn't be in the national anthem and yet I utterly love the hymn Jerusalem, it makes me well up when it's sung with passion.

Edited 21 June, 2014 by View From The Top
Typo

[Patrick Bateman]

I still don't fully know your position as all you've done so far is throw petty insults. Can you explain why you think a nation of 60 million people should have a national anthem about the Christian God and a monarch?

 

The U.S. constitution separates church and state (despite what the Bible belt may think), it would be good if the British did the same.

 

Because we live in a Christian country that is still predominantly Christian (N.B. I would put myself in the 'no religion' bucket, for your info);

 

"In the 2011 Census for England and Wales, 59.3% of the usual resident population (33.2 million people) identified as Christian. Muslims made up the second largest religious group with 4.8% of the population (2.7 million people). A quarter of the population (14.1 million people) reported they had no religion." [2011 census]

 

To the second point, most people like having a Monarchy;

 

"Britain would be worse off without the monarchy say 69% of respondents, while of 22% say the country would be better off. This 47-point royalist margin is the largest chalked up on any of the 12 occasions since 1997 on which ICM has previously asked the question." [The Guardian]

 

Additionally, the Star Spangled Banner mentions 'God', the Italian anthem talks about God, Flower of Scotland talks about ancient wars with the English, the Irish anthem talks about Saxons, even La Marseillaise talks about slaves, fighting and war etc. The point is, none of them are very relevant, they are just anthems. Our's might not be the best, but it still belongs to us and I (as do many) still enjoying belting it out.

[Matthew Le God]

Because we live in a Christian country that is still predominantly Christian (N.B. I would put myself in the 'no religion' bucket, for your info);

 

"In the 2011 Census for England and Wales, 59.3% of the usual resident population (33.2 million people) identified as Christian. Muslims made up the second largest religious group with 4.8% of the population (2.7 million people). A quarter of the population (14.1 million people) reported they had no religion." [2011 census]

 

To the second point, most people like having a Monarchy;

 

"Britain would be worse off without the monarchy say 69% of respondents, while of 22% say the country would be better off. This 47-point royalist margin is the largest chalked up on any of the 12 occasions since 1997 on which ICM has previously asked the question." [The Guardian]

 

Thanks, that supports my point. The country is not 100% Christian and so it shouldn't have an anthem about Christianity. There should be a separation of church and state, something that is not the case in England.

[Turkish]

There are some good points raised on this thread, to add to the discussion should the England kit be white? Back in 1885 of whenever when white was selected as our colour then the overwhelming majority of the population would have been white, however now not everyone that lives in England is white and we have a mix of races and cultures. surely it is wrong and potentially racist for our national team to be represented by a colour that does not reflect the racial make up of our society.

[Batman]

Thanks, that supports my point. The country is not 100% Christian and so it shouldn't have an anthem about Christianity. There should be a separation of church and state, something that is not the case in England.

 

Majority rules my friend

[Lighthouse]

I would wager a tiny percentage of that 59% is actually Christian. I myself ticked Christian but only because I was born and Christened into a (none-practicing) Christian family. I'm very much agnostic and most of the 'Christians' in the census are probably that, atheist or too lazy to actually practice religion.

 

To be brutally honest, I can't think of a less religious country in the World. Possibly the Dutch, whose entire population was once sentenced to death by the Catholic church I believe.

[Ohio Saint]

Majority rules my friend

 

Does that make you a woman?

[whelk]

If anyone had a Darwin fish thing, would it be any worse than having a cross or a legless fish?

 

I find it all a bit stupid but I know anyone who puts a Darwin fish on their car will be a knobhead.

[Patrick Bateman]

There are some good points raised on this thread, to add to the discussion should the England kit be white? Back in 1885 of whenever when white was selected as our colour then the overwhelming majority of the population would have been white, however now not everyone that lives in England is white and we have a mix of races and cultures. surely it is wrong and potentially racist for our national team to be represented by a colour that does not reflect the racial make up of our society.

 

We need a colour that 100% of people support ...

[Ohio Saint]

I find it all a bit stupid but I know anyone who puts a Darwin fish on their car will be a knobhead.

 

And a christian fish? Knobhead too?

[whelk]

We need a colour that 100% of people support ...

 

With no reference to anything that some might not believe. Surely the cross of St George must go. I mean who believes in dragons now we have scientists and TV?

[whelk]

And a christian fish? Knobhead too?

 

Not so much but don't see the point. They may be nice god fearing folk