Pancake Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Seems fine to me. Fonte aside, possibly the weakest defence in the top 8. As it stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 This time last year many of same posters were over reacting because Lovren left. I expect that they hadn't heard of Toby then. Although he is a superb CB he wasn't our best defender for a generation - he wasn't our best CB last season!! A year ago I was hoping we would sign the Celtic CB. Sounds like he has improved and is available. I suggest waiting for official updates before criticise a poster who said Toby would not sign for Spurs. There is a lot of criticism on here of our club....without knowing the facts. Maybe keep an open mind? Or even acknowledge how great Les R has been so maybe knows what he is going??!! I disagree with everything you've said - apart from the last two sentences. Alderweireld was streets ahead of any other Saints player last season when he was playing CB. Miles ahead of Fonte, albeit with a completely different skillset. If Alderweireld goes to Spurs it's because Atletico and Spurs have ignored a pre-existing contractual clause and, subsequently, it will be because either a judge decides something highly dubious given the evidence, or because Saints decide it's not worth our while agitating against it. For now, I'm sticking with "AM and Spurs have done everything they can but can't actually sign him until the Saints clause is sorted". No amount of "it's going to happen soon" for the past 5 days from the media means it will - there's clearly a sticking point and we all know what it is. We can still object and potentially block the thing. Just for the record, for all of those of you who think we've messed up - have you considered that we did all the things Spurs have done now, but a year ago, and that we'll be getting PAID £1.5m for the privilege of having him for a season, not forking out £11m? The only thing amateurish is Spurs thinking they can just ignore contract law and worry about it later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Why did we go public saying we had the right to sign him ahead of Spurs. What was the point in that when it seems that was not the case. This is the main problem I have with the whole thing, it makes as look like amateurs, especially after publicly saying how confident we were of Clyne signing a new deal too. I don't see how the club can't comprehend how much that would **** fans off, especially after being pretty liberal with the truth in their statements last summer as well. I'm sure we'll get a replacement who's just as good and have a good season again, but f#ck me the club are awful at PR when it comes to transfers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasper57saint Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Has he signed for Spurs yet? According to Northern Saints his Agent,dad Vic, implies he hasn't signed for Spuds and most of the press reports are denied. There's always hope and until it's confirmed he's actually signed (us or Spuds) I'll remain optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Fonte aside, possibly the weakest defence in the top 8. As it stands. Wasn't that what was being said when Lovren and Shaw left? Why don't you wait and see who comes in before you start soiling the sheets? Early days yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Has he signed for Spurs yet? According to Northern Saints his Agent,dad Vic, implies he hasn't signed for Spuds and most of the press reports are denied. There's always hope and until it's confirmed he's actually signed (us or Spuds) I'll remain optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Seems fine to me. Doesn't to me. Looks like a bottom half side. But we have at least one CB signing to come, and there's not much else we can do re: Bertrand and full backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Has he signed for Spurs yet? According to Northern Saints his Agent,dad Vic, implies he hasn't signed for Spuds and most of the press reports are denied. There's always hope and until it's confirmed he's actually signed (us or Spuds) I'll remain optimistic.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Fonte aside, possibly the weakest defence in the top 8. As it stands. Doubt if we'd be Top 8 with a defence like that though so it's really nothing to be concerned about. We'll just have to wait and see. Hopefully we'll have at least something strong enough to get us through our EU play-off games at the end of the month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulletsaint Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Not sure why so many people want to slate the club over this. We obviously wanted the player. Looks like we were willing to match Spurs' bid. If that's the case you'd have to say it looks like Toby has mugged off Koeman and Reed. This is only given even more credence by his father (and agent) claiming yesterday nothing had been agreed with anyone. Looks to me like Toby played us for fools but at the end of the day you surely have to trust what the player tells you. Having said that I believe we won't have put all our eggs in one basket and I bet we have other irons in the fire now this has fallen through. Save your histrionics for the end of the window if we haven't strengthened sufficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shance Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 He chose Spurs over us. Unfortunate but we can't really blame him. They'd have offered a fair amount more money than we would've. Good luck to him. On a side note, I really don't think Toby and Vertonghen at cb is a good pairing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Doesn't to me. Looks like a bottom half side. Given that it's not going to be our main starting 11 for the season as a whole, it really isn't that bad. There's no way we could have better 'cover' than those, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COMEONYOUREDS Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 just his head on walkers body Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Wasn't that what was being said when Lovren and Shaw left? Why don't you wait and see who comes in before you start soiling the sheets? Early days yet. Read it again, as it stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 He chose Spurs over us. Unfortunate but we can't really blame him. They'd have offered a fair amount more money than we would've. Good luck to him. On a side note, I really don't think Toby and Vertonghen at cb is a good pairing. 2 very good technical players, but neither are what I'd call the dominating centre back. Neither play at CB for Belgium which is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Koeman doesn't sit there in a press conference yesterday and say he's confident he's coming to us if he doesn't think we've got a sound legal case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Portugal international, Portugal international, Japanese international captain, U21 international Harsh on Yoshida who didn't put a foot wrong when called upon last season. I wouldn't expect him to be our main-stay CB, but a club like us will never get a player as good as him who is happy to play as a squad player. I would imagine we'll get a CB before the season starts anyway. I wouldn't say that Yoshi didn't put a foot wrong last season. He was at fault for at least 2 goals and does make some poor errors but then no one is perfect. He is fine as a back up player but I wouldn't want him as 1st choice CH next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Has he signed for Spurs yet? According to Northern Saints his Agent,dad Vic, implies he hasn't signed for Spuds and most of the press reports are denied. There's always hope and until it's confirmed he's actually signed (us or Spuds) I'll remain optimistic. Good to see that it's not just UK papers that print absolute crap though. https://www.voetbalkrant.com/nl/nieuws/lees/2015-07-07/akkoord-over-alderweireld-wij-hebben-met-niemand-een-overeenkomst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulletsaint Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 He chose Spurs over us. Unfortunate but we can't really blame him. They'd have offered a fair amount more money than we would've. Good luck to him. On a side note, I really don't think Toby and Vertonghen at cb is a good pairing. Given that Poch seemed to like playing Vertonghen at left back last season there's a chance it won't be their CB pairing at all. IN fact I wouldn't be surprised if they both end up playing full back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Total supposition on my part, however It would seem strange that the CFO would be fully responsible for the legals in the contract - in deals of that magnitude I would be stunned if Lawyers didn't write the contract. So how could the CFO get it wrong? Maybe we had to lodge our payment of £6.8m before a certain date - and knowing what interntaional transfers are like maybe he missed the cut off time to chaps the money so the transaction did not clear the spanish account until the following day. Therefore AM calm we did not meet the contract terms. The legal dispute would then arise from us claiming to have transmitted the money before the deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 2 very good technical players, but neither are what I'd call the dominating centre back. Neither play at CB for Belgium which is interesting. Completely disagree, I think they'll be outstanding together - however Toby has said he's happy to play in midfield so hopefully they'll waste his talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 (edited) We obviously made "noise" to the BBC and Simon peach etc Koeman even acknowledged legal wranglings in his presser Then someone was sacked at the club Losing Toby because he wanted to sign for Spurs. Fair enough, they are bigger better and richer. But to mug ourselves off with the whole legal bit was a bit odd This better bit I don't get off some of our fans, last season they were lucky, very lucky Eriksen, Kane and Loris won most of their points on there own They might well be better with Toby and Trippier now amoungst their ranks but before when we had Toby they weren't better, they were on par with us and I think it's clear Poch and Levy knew that and acted on it. Win win for them, get a quality CB who conceded the least goals all season bar Chelsea and weaken the competition. Edited 8 July, 2015 by Saint IQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Read it again, as it stands. But it isn't going to stay like this is it, so why bother? Just another dig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Completely disagree, I think they'll be outstanding together - however Toby has said he's happy to play in midfield so hopefully they'll waste his talents. That's the other added hammer blow with this deal, we've lost 3 players in effect. Cover at RB, cover in DM and a CB. So we'll probably go for 2 CM's now I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Total supposition on my part, however It would seem strange that the CFO would be fully responsible for the legals in the contract - in deals of that magnitude I would be stunned if Lawyers didn't write the contract. So how could the CFO get it wrong? Maybe we had to lodge our payment of £6.8m before a certain date - and knowing what interntaional transfers are like maybe he missed the cut off time to chaps the money so the transaction did not clear the spanish account until the following day. Therefore AM calm we did not meet the contract terms. The legal dispute would then arise from us claiming to have transmitted the money before the deadline. That doesn't tie up with us threatening legal action. Given that the CFO has left and the timing, it may well be that a case we thought was solid fell apart pretty quickly when tested, and that Atletico had already pointed that out. I wait to see if we pursue our claim against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoneuelllfanclub Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 IMO Saints tried to be too clever with this buy out clause deadline and it backfired on them. In the meantime Toby got a better offer from Spurs and when Saints eventually pulled there finger out it was too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnersaint Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Just like Liverpool last season, Spurs show a complete lack of imagination. Both have identified us as the biggest threat to their position in the league hierarchy, so they see this as a way of weakening a serious rival. Liverpool found out that the three players they bought from us didn't weaken us at all and they were made to look foolish when we replaced them with players at least as good, for much less money. In the case of Lovren, it became clear that he only shone because of the players around him. Spurs took the manager that had appeared to be the reason for our success and also the back-room guy credited with finding the good players. Few can argue that Koeman is an upgrade on Pochettino and I'm confident that our back-room staff are also equally or more capable too. It remains to be seen whether Alderweireld will be as effective as he was with us, but it is not inconceivable that like Lovren, he shone because of those around him. No reason to suspect that we cannot pull another rabbit out of the hat as we did with him and Lovren, and no doubt if we do, Liverpool and Spurs will be after them too. Felt that what you say was exactly what went on last summer and to some extent this summer as well. 'Sky Six' don't want to allow us to invade the party. Get used to it. If we are a mid-table Championship club or worse in five years time the doom mongers will be proven correct, if not we'll have had an interesting ride. FWIW, money aside, the Vertonghen factor and next year's Euro Championships will have been a factor as well. I am not a great one for conspiracies but I am rather dubious of the role that Hodgson played last summer and former French manager Domenech is doing this summer with Schneiderlin. The same may have happened with TA. Who knows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue Saint Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Having been royally mugged off by those north london cretins. I am fuming. Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 That's the other added hammer blow with this deal, we've lost 3 players in effect. Cover at RB, cover in DM and a CB. So we'll probably go for 2 CM's now I think. I think we should. Toby was basically 1st choice back-up if Morgan/Big Vic got injured or suspended. Clasie & another would be ideal for me - especially with Europe to take into consideration. (Maybe this is where the Benassi & Mario Lemina links have come from). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkboy Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 People can blame the board, but the bottom line is TA said he wanted to sign for us in public and has instead signed for Spurs. He could have delayed a few days to see if we could do a deal with AM (which we would have done) but instead he's signed for Spurs as quickly as he could. That speaks volumes Absolutely this. Board cock-up or not, if there were two bids of equal value on the table, thinking logically and all emotion to one side, who do we think TA would have chosen? As far as I'm concerned when it comes to philosophy and class we trounce Spurs into the ground, but unfortunately those values probably mean very little to most pro-footballers these days. He's gone to his preferred club IMO and TA's actions in doing so "speaks volumes" as Mr Kint here has said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyOldBoy Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 He chose Spurs over us. Unfortunate but we can't really blame him. They'd have offered a fair amount more money than we would've. Good luck to him. On a side note, I really don't think Toby and Vertonghen at cb is a good pairing. And furthermore it seems to have escaped everyone that Athetico did not want him !?!? There must be reason for that and I think we have seen it ,,, he is not the "utility" player some say he is , he was clearly a centre back , and one who seems a tad injury prone... Would not surprise me if this signing comes back to haunt Spuds.... Also Yoshi for me is an improving player and has still to get to his best.... So long as we have decent cover in the centre of defence then I am not gutted about this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 if there were two bids of equal value on the table, thinking logically and all emotion to one side, who do we think TA would have chosen? Us tbh, considering there's not much between the two teams on the pitch and he spent last season here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSteve Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 This better bit I don't get off some of our fans, last season they were lucky, very lucky Eriksen, Kane and Loris won most of their points on there own They might well be better with Toby and Trippier now amoungst their ranks but before when we had Toby they weren't better, they were on par with us and I think it's clear Poch and Levy knew that and acted on it. Win win for them, get a quality CB who conceded the least goals all season bar Chelsea and weaken the competition. What a ridiculous statement...anyone can claim only certain players won teams the points. All that matters is that Spurs had four more points than us and are a better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 So Spurs aren't a bigger club and don't pay higher wages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WealdSaint Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Sadly I feel this is a blow for two reasons. 1. He was a b****dy good centre back. 2. It reduces the chances of RK staying any longer than his 3 year contract (in his shoes there are limits to how far he can take us if we can't get this sort of deal across the line) But all in all, we are still in an amazing position compared to 5 years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadpanmatt Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Us tbh, considering there's not much between the two teams on the pitch and he spent last season here. A romantic idea, but the reality is that they would pay him more, he gets to live in London and he has international teammates there. I don't think it's a humungous jump from playing for us but if none of the big four are interested he has to choose someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Us tbh, considering there's not much between the two teams on the pitch and he spent last season here. Believe that if you want, but it's clearly boll0cks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 So Spurs aren't a bigger club and don't pay higher wages? Now there's something I don't quite understand. Toby was supposed to be on about 5 Million euros a year at AM, translates to somewhere between 70 and 80K £ a week depending on rates of exchange. So we must have been paying him that mustn't we? Surely AM weren't subsiding the deal. So he was already on a very high salary which we must have expected to continue paying I suppose. We could have easily afforded the deal and knew the salary situation so going to Spurs culd only be a sporting decision for him really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZuess1979 the 2nd Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Right lets get the guy from Celtic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkboy Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Us tbh, considering there's not much between the two teams on the pitch and he spent last season here. But he didn't choose us If he wanted to come here surely he might waited until we'd matched the bid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 A romantic idea, but the reality is that they would pay him more, he gets to live in London and he has international teammates there. I don't think it's a humungous jump from playing for us but if none of the big four are interested he has to choose someone else. I thought he was saying if both clubs offered the same amount? In that instance I'd 100% expect him to come here. I live in Farringdon, living in London isn't all that, I'd rather live in Hampshire any day but can't be arsed with a commute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 So Spurs aren't a bigger club and don't pay higher wages? Bigger club is a meaningless statement. Do you think he's gone to Spurs because they won the Worthington Cup 15 years ago, or to play in front of 36,000 instead of 32,000? No. Money and Champions League football are all that matter these days. Some of them don't appear to even give a sh*t about their national sides, judging by some of the Diva strops and mysterious injuries which crop up before a friendly. Not surprised in the slightest he went to Spurs. We went through all this last year with Lovren. Still irritating though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Now there's something I don't quite understand. Toby was supposed to be on about 5 Million euros a year at AM, translates to somewhere between 70 and 80K £ a week depending on rates of exchange. So we must have been paying him that mustn't we? Surely AM weren't subsiding the deal. So he was already on a very high salary which we must have expected to continue paying I suppose. We could have easily afforded the deal and knew the salary situation so going to Spurs culd only be a sporting decision for him really. This is the problem though. We don't know what he was on before, what we were paying him, what we were prepared to pay him or what Spurs offered him. Perhaps he was on a high wage with AM and perhaps they did subsidise his wages? One thing is for sure. AM didn't want to keep him - for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Bigger club is a meaningless statement. Do you think he's gone to Spurs because they won the Worthington Cup 15 years ago, or to play in front of 36,000 instead of 32,000? No. Money and Champions League football are all that matter these days. Some of them don't appear to even give a sh*t about their national sides, judging by some of the Diva strops and mysterious injuries which crop up before a friendly. Not surprised in the slightest he went to Spurs. We went through all this last year with Lovren. Still irritating though. Is it a meaningless statement? It seems to mean something to players when they are looking to move on. We do the same ourselves and get annoyed when someone choses a club that we perceive ourselves as bigger than. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Not quite the same though is it? Spurs have now poached our manager, first team coaching staff, head of recruitment and last season's CB. Not quite the same as just being outbid for the odd player here or there. Maybe we should be flattered that spurs clearly want to be the next Southampton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Our mistake was not keeping Vengard Forren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Every time I change my job it's for more money. Never understand the big fuss when footballers do the same. Its a bit different for a footballer who already has a good wage moving for a bit more and someone moving from the fillet of fish base to the tills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berkshiresaint Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 I don't believe in all this "he wants to live in London" rubbish. The huge majority of footballers who play for London teams live in either Berkshire, Surrey, Hertfordshire, Buckinghamshire or Hampshire so that argument holds very little sway. The reason they join the London clubs is because like it or not they are all bigger than Southampton, as much as we all like to bleat on about how far we have come ( a truly long way) we are & always will be a provincial club fighting for the scraps of a mid table finish with the occasional good cup run. If we can get some little gems to come & play for us then that is great but, these gems will always go on to bigger & better teams at which point we rebuild & start again, this will be the way of things until some major changes in English football take place & that is not likely to happen in the near future. So we get up off the floor, brush ourselves down & go again, TA is replaceable & I trust the Black Box to find us another little gem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 I'll say this much guys. This would simply not have happened had Cortese never left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Every time I change my job it's for more money. Never understand the big fuss when footballers do the same. Does you job involve 40,000+ rather biased fans who end up giving you a degree of hero worship though? Can't really compare normal life to football plenty of football fans (of every club) become irrational where their football club is concerned. Rightly or wrongly they want players to care and be emotionally involved as they, as fans, are. The players love to play along in interviews to which only makes it seem worse when they **** off. Football fans in general seem to be irrational and hypocritical* (just listen to a talksport phone in) but hey it's part of the fun. * not any posters on here of course we are perfectly level headed and rational types:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts