Toby

[Lighthouse]

Is it a meaningless statement? It seems to mean something to players when they are looking to move on. We do the same ourselves and get annoyed when someone choses a club that we perceive ourselves as bigger than.

 

Whatever they say, it's all about money and the CL.

 

If history was important then Liverpool would be signing all of Man City's top players. Do you think City are worried about Aguero being snapped up by Forest, Wolves or Leeds?

[Turkish]

Just like Liverpool last season, Spurs show a complete lack of imagination. Both have identified us as the biggest threat to their position in the league hierarchy, so they see this as a way of weakening a serious rival. Liverpool found out that the three players they bought from us didn't weaken us at all and they were made to look foolish when we replaced them with players at least as good, for much less money. In the case of Lovren, it became clear that he only shone because of the players around him.

 

Spurs took the manager that had appeared to be the reason for our success and also the back-room guy credited with finding the good players. Few can argue that Koeman is an upgrade on Pochettino and I'm confident that our back-room staff are also equally or more capable too. It remains to be seen whether Alderweireld will be as effective as he was with us, but it is not inconceivable that like Lovren, he shone because of those around him. No reason to suspect that we cannot pull another rabbit out of the hat as we did with him and Lovren, and no doubt if we do, Liverpool and Spurs will be after them too.

 

You talk utter bol*ocks

[Saints67]

Made a note in my diary on the way here. Simply says: "Bugger".

[hypochondriac]

I'll say this much guys.

 

This would simply not have happened had Cortese never left.

 

People will laugh but I do think we could do with rediscovering our killer instinct a bit. We seem happy to accept our place in the football hierarchy which is fine but would be nice to get a few surprises every now and again.

[CylonKing]

Disappointing end to that saga there. Really hoped Toby would've been our player next season. Oh well, I trust that Les and Ron will find a worthy\better replacement and we'll trounce Spurs next season in both fixtures for a change. I'll never forget that 4-1 drubbing on live TV against Hoddle's Spurs team in the F.A. Cup. One of my favourite moments watching Saints.

[GarrettIvo]

And furthermore it seems to have escaped everyone that Athetico did not want him !?!? There must be reason for that and I think we have seen it ,,, he is not the "utility" player some say he is , he was clearly a centre back , and one who seems a tad injury prone... Would not surprise me if this signing comes back to haunt Spuds.... Also Yoshi for me is an improving player and has still to get to his best.... So long as we have decent cover in the centre of defence then I am not gutted about this....

 

I am not gutted either,but he is very definitely a class, class player, capable in several positions. To suggest otherwise is rewriting reality IMO.

[Lighthouse]

Every time I change my job it's for more money. Never understand the big fuss when footballers do the same.

 

When most of us change job it's so we can move out of a crappy flat on a council estate, replace our knackered 10 year old car, take our kids on a ski trip instead of a caravan in Dorset etc. etc.

 

I get your point but Saints would pay a decent player more money than I could spend in a lifetime. We would probably have offered Toby something like £60kpw, which would add up to something around £20m (after tax) by the time he retires. Wanting more than that does smack a little bit of greed.

[Window Cleaner]

Disappointing end to that saga there. Really hoped Toby would've been our player next season. Oh well, I trust that Les and Ron will find a worthy\better replacement and we'll trounce Spurs next season in both fixtures for a change. I'll never forget that 4-1 drubbing on live TV against Hoddle's Spurs team in the F.A. Cup. One of my favourite moments watching Saints.

 

But Les and Ron aren't responsible for recruitment initially, didn't we hire a bloke from Huddersfield to do that?

They are obviously consulted but it's not their field.

[OldNick]

When most of us change job it's so we can move out of a crappy flat on a council estate, replace our knackered 10 year old car, take our kids on a ski trip instead of a caravan in Dorset etc. etc.

 

I get your point but Saints would pay a decent player more money than I could spend in a lifetime. We would probably have offered Toby something like £60kpw, which would add up to something around £20m (after tax) by the time he retires. Wanting more than that does smack a little bit of greed.

that is true but if we were talking about a player choosing between Norwich, Derby, Swansea, Leicester, Palace or Spurs we would not blink an eye if he joined Spurs. Spurs have millions of fans around the world and do have that extra sparkle we dont. It is annoying but we are just a provincial club of large size, not one in the lights. Bridesmaids and only once the bride

[GarrettIvo]

Sadly I feel this is a blow for two reasons.

 

1. He was a b****dy good centre back.

2. It reduces the chances of RK staying any longer than his 3 year contract (in his shoes there are limits to how far he can take us if we can't get this sort of deal across the line)

 

But all in all, we are still in an amazing position compared to 5 years ago

 

1: Very true.

2. There is a limit to how far any manager could take us without a massive investment at every level of the football department. That limit is somewhere between 5th and 7th place in the league.

We have reached it. Whether we remain there for much longer is yet to be seen. I would be over the moon if we managed 7th again this coming season. Ecstatic.

But it's probably not going to happen. But if we can do something crazy like get to the group stage of the Europa League - or God forbid the knockout stage - and still at least flirt with the top half of the league, that would be an immense season.

We certainly won't be near the bottom three with all the dross still below us and the promoted teams as well.

 

And you are right, we are in an amazing position compared to five years ago.

[pangy]

Until we are a established top 6 team with regular European football this is going to keep happening,we need to face facts we are not a big club yet,maybe one day but not yet,and until then we will always lose out to those above us

[GarrettIvo]

Maybe the City of Southampton should bid for the Commonwealth games and then the club can get a virtually free stadium like West Ham. Or maybe not be so shameless and at least contribute like Manchester City did. Make us more attractive to Saudi oil magnates. Not that I would be into that sort of thing.

[Window Cleaner]

Until we are a established top 6 team with regular European football this is going to keep happening,we need to face facts we are not a big club yet,maybe one day but not yet,and until then we will always lose out to those above us

 

In fact I think we may have blown our only real chance of becoming a top 6 club. We had all that it took last season, we were there and 6th at worst looked nailed on. We persisted with a striker who couldn't buy a goal instead of shelling out a few swans for an alternative and coupled with a serious injury to our only credible keeper we eventually managed the unmanagable and finished outside of the top 6. Now we have more sales meaning that the entire spine of the side will be changed again for the start of next season and top 10 may well be a very good position at the end of the season.

[alpine_saint]

And you are right, we are in an amazing position compared to five years ago.

 

And a worse postion than a year ago

[farawaysaint]

And a worse postion than a year ago

 

But a better position than two years ago.

[david in sweden]

I'll say this much guys.

 

This would simply not have happened had Cortese never left.

 

However, there are also a heck of a lot of things that wouldn't have happened - had he stayed.....

 

Toby's gone ...we march on ......

[SaintRichmond]

Until we are a established top 6 team with regular European football this is going to keep happening,we need to face facts we are not a big club yet,maybe one day but not yet,and until then we will always lose out to those above us

 

Agreed, we are not a big Club YET, but will we ever be ??

 

With Markus I would have said yes, plans were in place to expand St Marys

 

Krueger ( Katharina) has said NO, not until we fill the place EVERY match

 

No chance, because, We need in depth better Quality players, they cost money, to generate extra money we need to expand, to

 

expand we need Investment. It's a Head chasing Tail situation

 

Regretably, I think we will NEVER be bigger than we are at present

[Trout-Tickler]

And a worse postion than a year ago

 

Really? Being a little bit dramatic methinks!

 

Had we even signed a player by this point last year?

[Pilchards]

Until we are a established top 6 team with regular European football this is going to keep happening,we need to face facts we are not a big club yet,maybe one day but not yet,and until then we will always lose out to those above us

 

It's sad how easy it's happening. Never known any club on the outskirts of top 6 lose four top players in one summer followed by 3 top players the next. I will bet you my bottom dollar Mane, Wanyama and Jayrod are going next summer.

Once Koeman has had enough we will start to become also rans like Newcastle, Villa and Everton. If you don't get a decent manager in then we could sink like Leeds, Wolves and Blackburn did.

 

I also heard that the CEO who got sacked shared some information to Mitchell many moons ago. Mitchell saw the loop hole and sat on his fingers until July to reel Toby in. Could not make it up could you?

[GarrettIvo]

And a worse postion than a year ago

 

There's a reason I have you on my ignore list.

[GarrettIvo]

Agreed, we are not a big Club YET, but will we ever be ??

 

With Markus I would have said yes, plans were in place to expand St Marys

 

Krueger ( Katharina) has said NO, not until we fill the place EVERY match

 

No chance, because, We need in depth better Quality players, they cost money, to generate extra money we need to expand, to

 

expand we need Investment. It's a Head chasing Tail situation

 

Regretably, I think we will NEVER be bigger than we are at present

 

Telling that the stadium wasn't filled this season every weekend even when the side was challenging for top 4.

[Shance]

2 very good technical players, but neither are what I'd call the dominating centre back. Neither play at CB for Belgium which is interesting.

 

Indeed. Both ball players who will push up. Will leave them open to the counter IMO (sound familiar?). Looks like Poch will be playing a very high line next season so it will be a huge blow if they lose Lloris (sweeper keeper).

[alpine_saint]

But a better position than two years ago.

 

Remains to be seen.

[Cricketphilly]

Was it just me or did Alderweireld (not the dropping of Toby, since he's gone) seem no better than an average centre half anyway?

Was bleedin' awful for Belgium also.

[S-Clarke]

Was it just me or did Alderweireld (not the dropping of Toby, since he's gone) seem no better than an average centre half anyway?

Was bleedin' awful for Belgium also.

 

Yes.

[Saint IQ]

I just hope Spurs have an awful start, Toby's hamstrings carry on giving him grief and Poch gets the boot by xmas. Premier league is becoming more and more competitive, Harry Kane will get less space and time this season and more attention. Hope De Gea goes to Madrid, Loris to United. You can't say many if any of these fixtures are 'bankers'

 

Finally lets hope that #WeMarchOn #UpTheSaints

[Cricketphilly]

Yes.

 

Or maybe?......

[hasper57saint]

He's gone.Lets move on now.

[St Marco]

Was it just me or did Alderweireld (not the dropping of Toby, since he's gone) seem no better than an average centre half anyway?

Was bleedin' awful for Belgium also.

 

[Cricketphilly]

 

Wow!

[Lord Duckhunter]

I'll say this much guys.

 

This would simply not have happened had Cortese never left.

 

You're right , he would have just got the job done . No fannying around with loan to buys , bang , stright in with the dough , like he did with Gaston & Osvsldo .

[St Marco]

Wow!

 

Haha was just kidding. But come on he was way better then an average CB. I would put Jos down as an average one and he is better then that.

[ecuk268]

Was it just me or did Alderweireld (not the dropping of Toby, since he's gone) seem no better than an average centre half anyway?

Was bleedin' awful for Belgium also.

 

When he was here, he was the best thing since sliced bread. Now he's gone, he wasn't that good after all.

 

This is the standard reaction when a player leaves who we would like to have stayed.

[hans gruber]

F*ck off Toby

F*ck off A.Madrid

And mainly, f*ck off Tottenham. Can't they ever come up with anything on their own? Masters of copying what they see elsewhere, and not quite making it work. Hope his hamstring goes on the first day of the season.

Pretty much my sentiments.

 

Next person I see wearing a Tottenham shirt, gets a punch in the face. I don't care if it is my 8 year olds friend.

[Window Cleaner]

When he was here, he was the best thing since sliced bread. Now he's gone, he wasn't that good after all.

 

This is the standard reaction when a player leaves who we would like to have stayed.

 

Schoolyard mentality I'm afraid.

[GarrettIvo]

Pretty much my sentiments.

 

Next person I see wearing a Tottenham shirt, gets a punch in the face. I don't care if it is my 8 year olds friend.

 

I'm not at child punching level.

Although I wouldn't cry if Toby's legs gave out yes.

[ecuk268]

Agreed, we are not a big Club YET, but will we ever be ??

 

With Markus I would have said yes, plans were in place to expand St Marys

 

Krueger ( Katharina) has said NO, not until we fill the place EVERY match

 

No chance, because, We need in depth better Quality players, they cost money, to generate extra money we need to expand, to

 

expand we need Investment. It's a Head chasing Tail situation

 

Regretably, I think we will NEVER be bigger than we are at present

 

Even if we got another 15000 seats it wouldn't be that much extra income even if we could fill them.

 

15000 @ say £40 x 19 games = £11.4M or one reasonable-quality player per season.

 

Set that against the capital cost of expansion and I doubt if the club would see it as worthwhile.

[Cricketphilly]

Haha was just kidding. But come on he was way better then an average CB. I would put Jos down as an average one and he is better then that.

 

Ha Ha, no worries I can take a dig !

[mulletsaint]

You talk utter bol*ocks

 

To be honest I don't think he's too far from the truth. OK so these clubs aren't buying our players because they see us as a threat, but by challenging them they have seen that what we are doing seems to be working. Rather than take the time to get their own houses in order they go for the short term solution in buying those of our staff that they see as being responsible for our relative success.

 

By all means though feel free to keep strutting around like a character from that she-ite Lock Stock TV series.

[angelman]

Was it just me or did Alderweireld (not the dropping of Toby, since he's gone) seem no better than an average centre half anyway?

Was bleedin' awful for Belgium also.

 

He had a calmness about him that was out of the ordinary. He read the game well and cut out problems before they developed, probably why the calm aura was noticeable. He got caught out once or twice, but which defender doesn't? Only saw him play vs Wales and I would say that he wasn't brilliant then.

 

As for the hamstrings.....he missed 5 or 6 games and that's all. I can't se why people think that they are dodgy, save for him being a Spurs player now.

[nta786]

I'm going to think of it this way:

 

If I was a foreign player, and using Germany as an example, played really well on loan at Hoffenheim, and then at the end of the season Dortmund came in for me with more fans, higher wages and higher prestige, would you not move? This is basically how Toby will see us...

We can say the same for Clyne's move- ofc us Saints fans would be loyal to Southampton, but say you were playing well for Sunderland and then a move to Liverpool arose- we'd all jump at the move. Clyne's a London local- I never expected his loyalty to lie with the Saints.

 

I just with our players could follow players like Reus or Gundogan both signed contracts which ensures that Dortmund get a decent fee... Guess there is no loyalty in English football.

[Chocolate Box]

Be interesting to see how he fares without Fonte, could be another Lovren.

[Wes Tender]

What a ridiculous statement...anyone can claim only certain players won teams the points. All that matters is that Spurs had four more points than us and are a better team.

 

It was a perfectly reasonable point of view IMO. I don't think that many would dispute that Lloris saved them a significant number of points and that Kane in particular earned them a substantial number of points, with Eriksen chipping in with several late strikes to earn them wins instead of draws. And I dispute whether Spurs are a better team than we were last season. Luckier, maybe, to be above us with such a poor goal difference. Had Lamela's handball goal against us been disallowed for example, the gap between us would have been 1 point and there are no doubt many other occasions where such little things could have put us above them and indeed Liverpool had they gone in our favour.

[beatlesaint]

Be interesting to see how he fares without Fonte, could be another Lovren.

 

thats always possible of course and there remains the question of why AM didn't want to keep him !

 

Regardless he was good for us and that's the upsetting thing.

[richard]

We are just as bad. I mean, we're selling Morgan to United and he's been an Arsenal player for 7 years!

 

Haha!

[shurlock]

He had a calmness about him that was out of the ordinary. He read the game well and cut out problems before they developed, probably why the calm aura was noticeable. He got caught out once or twice, but which defender doesn't? Only saw him play vs Wales and I would say that he wasn't brilliant then.

 

As for the hamstrings.....he missed 5 or 6 games and that's all. I can't se why people think that they are dodgy, save for him being a Spurs player now.

 

Wrong. He missed ten league games (if you include United). Given he joined only on the transfer deadline, that's nearly a third of the season. Not untrivial.

[Saint IQ]

I'm going to think of it this way:

 

If I was a foreign player, and using Germany as an example, played really well on loan at Hoffenheim, and then at the end of the season Dortmund came in for me with more fans, higher wages and higher prestige, would you not move? This is basically how Toby will see us...

We can say the same for Clyne's move- ofc us Saints fans would be loyal to Southampton, but say you were playing well for Sunderland and then a move to Liverpool arose- we'd all jump at the move. Clyne's a London local- I never expected his loyalty to lie with the Saints.

 

I just with our players could follow players like Reus or Gundogan both signed contracts which ensures that Dortmund get a decent fee... Guess there is no loyalty in English football.

 

Isn't Hoffenhiem a tiny village with a population of 3,000 and something, can't really compare them to saints although I get your point

[Batman]

dodged a bullet here I feel

he was crap, injury prone and not worth the money

on our unstoppable march to the champions league, we need to do better

 

players like Martina who want to be here is where it is at. greatful to come a club a like saints and will wear the shirt with pride

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr X]

Seems a very messy transfer all round http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/furious-southampton-warn-tottenham-keep-6015938

 

Surely there's nowt we can do now he's joined spurs his prefered club?

[shurlock]

dodged a bullet here I feel

he was crap, injury prone and not worth the money

on our unstoppable march to the champions league, we need to do better

 

players like Martina who want to be here is where it is at. greatful to come a club a like saints and will wear the shirt with pride

 

 

He was an excellent player and would have been a very good addition, though he missed quite a few games. No contradiction there. Who mentioned Martina?

 

youre like a hypocrisy sniffer dog that manages only to find their own turd. Ineffectual.