solentstars Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 I do not understand why people persist with this drivel. We are an average sized Premier League club trying to live within our means. We have over achieved in the past two seasons because of shrewd signings and good coaching. We are never going to spending £10M+ on every player we buy. Spending £4-5M on players with high upside such as Soares and Juanmi seems to be part of the model of a good stable "selling' club.spot on we still have a good team and our model is based on bringing young player into the squad . i expect a few new players to added to the side which will be a very tough season due to us being involved in the europa league . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Wanyama probably figures he's the boss in midfield now and is thinking about all the cash he'll earn next summer for a CL side if he has a blinding season (motivation), and Bertrand seems overtly happy with the way his career is going. Fonte has had other CBs to partner with before, and am sure he'll make the next one look good too. We'll lose a max of 3 players if MS goes. We've got Reed coming through, and will sign another decent CM anyway, so it's not like we're in dire straits for a MS replacement. We'll get a decent replacement for TA, and we already have an excellent replacement (by all accounts) for Clyne. We've got a brilliant keeper to plug the gap til FF is back, and when he is we've got strength in depth for the rest of the season. Our attack has two new excellent players - JRod is back, and you don't play for spain without being at least somewhat capable. Seems to me like we'll be at least as strong next season. Players come and go. One word of advice if I may. Probably best to precede such posts with a #pragmatism klaxon# as some people might self-combust before they get to the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Because the message so far this summer is not an unequivoval "we are building on last summers achievements". Its seems we have gone back to Lowe-esque "Lets maintian the status quo on the cheap". You genuinely crack me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Because, until AM paid the £1.5m we knew that we could get him for £6.9m (according to the contract). We also knew that we had time to bid table a higher amount if/when AM paid the £1.5m. What we didn't know is that AM had decided (for whatever reason) that they were going to string us along by not paying the £1.5m until a deal had been struck with Spurs. We'll never know what AM's reaction would have been if we'd offered them, say, £12m at the end of last season. Maybe they'd have turned it down because they had been speaking to Spurs in the background for months already and, for whatever reason, they never intended selling Toby to us, regardless of the price. One thing is for sure, we'd have had people on here saying we blinked too soon if we ended up getting him for £12m when we had a seemingly watertight contract that said we could buy him for £6.9m if AM didn't pay £1.5m by a certain deadline. Were Saints naive? Possibly, but with a large dose of hindsight thrown in for good measure. IMO of course. I am absolutely amazed at the number of people who seem to know the minute details of this famous contract. If it was so watertight then we should own the player by now having paid 8 million euros for him (not even 6.8 million£, it's a bit over about 5 and a half at recent rates). If we had had a contract like that then we should have smply transferred the sum involved to AM's bank and then claimed our right btro the player. It's all smoke and mirrors I expect, we've been strung along once again. Not worried myself, we'll get someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffo Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 I wonder how long some on here have supported Saints for if you're getting annoyed about our better players moving to bigger and better clubs. We've never been a big enough club to keep our best players and never will be. Not worth getting arsed about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Because the message so far this summer is not an unequivoval "we are building on last summers achievements". Its seems we have gone back to Lowe-esque "Lets maintian the status quo on the cheap". Are you sending back your season ticket in protest? Dutch, Spanish, Portugese internationals all are sh1te of course..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Again I don't see how I am panicking exactly? I am gutted we lost out on Toby. He was a huge reason for our success last year. I have faith RK will get in the right people, but as I said above we shouldn't just rush out and buy any old person. Just how you're coming across, that's all. The fact you think the club might rush out and buy any old player speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Are you sending back your season ticket in protest? Dutch, Spanish, Portugese internationals all are sh1te of course..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Pete Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 I understand that players have to look after themselves in these matters, but can't help feeling disappointed in Toby's actions in this. Unless Les and Ron have been downright lying, it does appear that he gave us a pretty strong indication that he wanted to sign for us up until pretty close to the deal being signed with Spurs, when in reality he and his agent must have been negotiating with Spurs for some time. It does also seem a bit messy from Saints point of view though - for whatever reason, the communications with Atletico seem to have broken down and we've ended up trying to salvage something at the last minute (or so it seems), which makes it look like we were blindsided in some way. You would have expected us to be in close contact/negotiation with Atletico since the end of the season to establish whether the various clauses in the loan deal were being exercised or not? I hope we will hear some kind of response/explanation from the club about what happened from our point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 (edited) ah well. nearly had a top quality player. one thing though, please (whoever) do NOT tell us to ignore the 'noise' in the press. they were basically right. the standard, the mail etc. all right. Would like to think we will get a top replacement. essential position really. who else have been linked with? that chap from juventus? Edited 8 July, 2015 by Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Just how you're coming across, that's all. The fact you think the club might rush out and buy any old player speaks volumes. Like I said Long fits into that bracket for me. £13m was way over the odds. That is what I am suggesting we avoid. Or more Gardos'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesfp1 Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Oh well. Move on. Hopefully we'll get 2x CB and 2x CM in ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JxgrSaint Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Like I said Long fits into that bracket for me. £13m was way over the odds. That is what I am suggesting we avoid. Or more Gardos'. Wasn't Long £11m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Are you sending back your season ticket in protest? Dutch, Spanish, Portugese internationals all are sh1te of course..... He's on a wind up. He doesn't actually go to Saints games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Wasn't Long £11m? http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/11405855.Saints_agree___12_5m_fee_for_Shane_Long/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Biscuits Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Welp that's that then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Like I said Long fits into that bracket for me. £13m was way over the odds. That is what I am suggesting we avoid. Or more Gardos'. And like I say, you sound like you're having a meltdown (amongst others), like last summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 ah well. nearly had a top quality player. one thing though, please (whoever) do NOT tell us to ignore the 'noise' in the press. they were basically right. the standard, the mail etc. all right. Would like to think we will get a top replacement. essential position really. who else have been linked with? that chap from juventus? Ogbonna? off to West Ham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 If it was so watertight then we should own the player by now having paid 8 million euros for him (not even 6.8 million£, it's a bit over about 5 and a half at recent rates). If we had had a contract like that then we should have smply transferred the sum involved to AM's bank and then claimed our right btro the player. That assumes that the contract contained provision for us to exercise our 'right to buy' BEFORE Madrid paid the reported £1.5m buy-out sum. The prevailing opinion seems to be that we *couldn't* pay the 8 million eruros until either Madrid declared that they didn't want to exercise their buy-out option OR the buy-out deadline passed. It would seem that Saints thought they had a watertight contract whereas AM seem to either have a different interpretation or are happy for Saints to take legal action if we 'dare'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 He's on a wind up. He doesn't actually go to Saints games. Yes I know he whinged in 2010 never went, whinged in Championship never went, whinged in league One never went, funnily enough disappeared for most of last year but as soon as we have a bit of doom and gloom wow glowing keyboard!! I don't know why I even bother with him but its funny watching him combust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 And like I say, you sound like you're having a meltdown (amongst others), like last summer. So saying don't rush out and buy any old player is having a meltdown......right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 I do wonder if he will be as good without Fonte beside him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 So saying don't rush out and buy any old player is having a meltdown......right Thinking that we're going to rush out and buy any old player is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st alex Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 It's a weird one, gut reaction says we ****ed up big time with this. Did we ever actually make a bid for him? We can't have too much to complain about if we had him here for a whole season and then never actually excised our option to buy him. And that we should have moved for him months ago. However on reflection I suppose we were worried that any bid from ourselves would cause Athetico to active their cancel clause and that we were therefore waiting until their deadline elapsed and then we'd have a small window of opportunity in which to sign him for the pre agreed fee. And I guess this is why we're threatening legal action, as we felt we still had an exclusive period in which to speak to the player and Athletico Madrid then accept a bigger offer and let him talk to a wealthy club. Once that's happened we didn't stand much chance as even if we'd made a bid the player can simply turn down the contract and then Athletico can put him on the open market. We need better loan contracts in place next time which could be why our CFO left. Our defence is starting to look more and more mediocre for the start of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Saints: a new team every year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 People can blame the board, but the bottom line is TA said he wanted to sign for us in public and has instead signed for Spurs. He could have delayed a few days to see if we could do a deal with AM (which we would have done) but instead he's signed for Spurs as quickly as he could. That speaks volumes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Yoshida's time to shine. Go on son. Take the league by storm. Could be his first year where he gets to play 30+ games for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beavis17 Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Yoshida's time to shine. Go on son. Take the league by storm. Could be his first year where he gets to play 30+ games for us. We'll bring in someone else, so probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Alpine has pulled out all the stops on this thread. Some absolute classic posts that make him come across as the balanced, thoughtful, level headed chap we all know. I think his assertion that someone should "deal with it" was my highlight. Because he's obviously dealt with this himself in such a pragmatic way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 This feels worse than when Lovren went. Need to get quality in. Suspect the Clasie deal will come quicker now to appease us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 I rate Yoshida, barely put a foot wrong last year, obviously we'll sign someone but he'll have to be bloody good. Not too keen on this Ogbonna guy myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Why did we go public saying we had the right to sign him ahead of Spurs. What was the point in that when it seems that was not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 People can blame the board, but the bottom line is TA said he wanted to sign for us in public and has instead signed for Spurs. He could have delayed a few days to see if we could do a deal with AM (which we would have done) but instead he's signed for Spurs as quickly as he could. That speaks volumes Tbh those who pay any attention to whatever professional footballers may or may not say are usually rapidly disillusioned. They go from being "over the moon" to "sick as a parrot" in nanoseconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 We'll bring in someone else, so probably not. We might have to play 60+ games this season so probably will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Why did we go public saying we had the right to sign him ahead of Spurs. What was the point in that when it seems that was not the case. Did the club go public on that or was it just a press interpretation of some other comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Why did we go public saying we had the right to sign him ahead of Spurs. What was the point in that when it seems that was not the case. Did we go public or was it the press? Things have been going on for so long (of feel that way) and there have been so much bull written, that it's easy to forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 **** me WC, your post is spookily similar to mine and I had to double take to make sure it wasn't a double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Did the club go public on that or was it just a press interpretation of some other comment? We obviously made "noise" to the BBC and Simon peach etc Koeman even acknowledged legal wranglings in his presser Then someone was sacked at the club Losing Toby because he wanted to sign for Spurs. Fair enough, they are bigger better and richer. But to mug ourselves off with the whole legal bit was a bit odd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Did we go public or was it the press? Things have been going on for so long (of feel that way) and there have been so much bull written, that it's easy to forget. Well it's Summer Transfer Window so there's always a certain amount of BS attached to that. Some days I do not follow the debate being gainfully employed esewhere so I was actually quite interested to know the facts, you may well be in the same boat.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 Not quite the same though is it? Spurs have now poached our manager, first team coaching staff, head of recruitment and last season's CB. Not quite the same as just being outbid for the odd player here or there. Just like Liverpool last season, Spurs show a complete lack of imagination. Both have identified us as the biggest threat to their position in the league hierarchy, so they see this as a way of weakening a serious rival. Liverpool found out that the three players they bought from us didn't weaken us at all and they were made to look foolish when we replaced them with players at least as good, for much less money. In the case of Lovren, it became clear that he only shone because of the players around him. Spurs took the manager that had appeared to be the reason for our success and also the back-room guy credited with finding the good players. Few can argue that Koeman is an upgrade on Pochettino and I'm confident that our back-room staff are also equally or more capable too. It remains to be seen whether Alderweireld will be as effective as he was with us, but it is not inconceivable that like Lovren, he shone because of those around him. No reason to suspect that we cannot pull another rabbit out of the hat as we did with him and Lovren, and no doubt if we do, Liverpool and Spurs will be after them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 We obviously made "noise" to the BBC and Simon peach etc Koeman even acknowledged legal wranglings in his presser Then someone was sacked at the club Losing Toby because he wanted to sign for Spurs. Fair enough, they are bigger better and richer. But to mug ourselves off with the whole legal bit was a bit odd I thought that he left by mutual consent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 (edited) We obviously made "noise" to the BBC and Simon peach etc Koeman even acknowledged legal wranglings in his presser Then someone was sacked at the club Losing Toby because he wanted to sign for Spurs. Fair enough, they are bigger better and richer. But to mug ourselves off with the whole legal bit was a bit odd But then you may well find that what we actually do or have done is completely different from what we say we may or may not do. Saints like to appear user friendly and the ultimate good guys but it's best not to take everything that's said by the club officials as gospel. As I said yesterday I'm quite amazed that everybody seems to be desperate to believe all that's said by SFC. It's football, second only to politics in the application of the Machiavellian ideal. "Sometimes words must serve to veil the truith but excuses should be at hand in case the truth is ever discovered" Not the veritable quote of course but that's the gist of it, comes from "The Prince". Edited 8 July, 2015 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Tony Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 I did warn you all.... very disappointed to miss out on him. I know he wasn't our player but we all the noise of how confident we were provided false hope. The bid was accepted a couple of weeks ago and most details except for medical were finalised on Saturday. I don't want to sound all Alpine but we do have some serious work to do in the transfer market now if we want to remain a sounf defensive unit, no idea who we will go for Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 I thought that he left by mutual consent. Which in real terms is sacked with a pay-off of some description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 So as it stand we start the season with: Cedric Fonte Yoshi Targett Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 So as it stand we start the season with: Cedric Fonte Yoshi Targett Ouch. Portugal international, Portugal international, Japanese international captain, U21 international Harsh on Yoshida who didn't put a foot wrong when called upon last season. I wouldn't expect him to be our main-stay CB, but a club like us will never get a player as good as him who is happy to play as a squad player. I would imagine we'll get a CB before the season starts anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 So as it stand we start the season with: Cedric Fonte Yoshi Targett Ouch. Seems fine to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 No Clyne, Toby, Morgan or Fraser next season... oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 No Clyne, Toby, Morgan or Fraser next season... oh. You mean like every other team in the world last season who somehow managed to make do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 No Clyne, Toby, Morgan or Fraser next season... oh. But with replacements for all of them. Amazing that so many people haven't learnt from last season that EVERYONE in our squad is replaceable. We don't have world class players, we have very good players and there are plenty of very good players out there and they'll cost us much less than the fees we get in for the ones we sell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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