Cumbria Saint Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 It seems to me that one of Saints strengths that it not often mentioned is the fact that once we sign someone we actually make them into better players. I'm not sure this is true so much for most of the other teams in the top half of the league? They seem to buy a player because he is already good and then expect him to perform the same way for them. In the current team I think you can say that Clasie, Cedric, Long and Romeu at least have all developed into better players during their time with Saints. Perhaps that is just due to them taking time to settle in but I think it is more than that, they have actually been coached to be better. It's not true for all our signings of course but I reckon we are better at it than most. I guess this links in with Ralph's message that we don't just buy success we breed it. In turn of course this means these players eventually leave for higher transfer fees, further helping to recruit new, improvable talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 You could add VVD to that list and maybe also Font, Wanyama, JRod and maybe Mané as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 (edited) It seems to me that one of Saints strengths that it not often mentioned is the fact that once we sign someone we actually make them into better players. I'm not sure this is true so much for most of the other teams in the top half of the league? They seem to buy a player because he is already good and then expect him to perform the same way for them. In the current team I think you can say that Clasie, Cedric, Long and Romeu at least have all developed into better players during their time with Saints. Perhaps that is just due to them taking time to settle in but I think it is more than that, they have actually been coached to be better. It's not true for all our signings of course but I reckon we are better at it than most. I guess this links in with Ralph's message that we don't just buy success we breed it. In turn of course this means these players eventually leave for higher transfer fees, further helping to recruit new, improvable talent. I couldn't agree more, I've had similar thoughts myself in the past. Surely the best example must be Rickie Lambert, who (at best) was not the greatest goalscorer in L1, until he was brought into the Saints squad. He and Lallana, made the Saints side tick for several seasons. Of course we can talk all day about Morgan Schneiderlin, too. and I know he's at Man U ....and all that, but seeing him on the bench there makes me think that he was always one of the first names on every Saints team sheet when he was with us. Steven Davis is a great asset, but many said that the SPL was too low a level for him to be able to come in and succeed in the Prem. I know we haven't won titles and Cups, but there is something about the " togetherness" of a Saints squad that brings out the best in a many players. It's also part of the reason for the success of Shaw, Chambers, Targett and Ward-Prowse - who can come in at the highest level alongside established interanationals and DAJFU. There were a few questions raised about Dejan Lovren's performances in France - but I've always thought our back line (and Jose Fonte in particular) made him look perhaps - even better than he really was. There was a time when he looked like a potential player of the season.....but moving to L'pool he finally got found out when there was no-one to support him at the back of the L'pool defence. Others who have moved on have had similar experiences. Nat Clyne certainly improved to the point where he was capped for England, but he was " all at sea" in his first games with Saints, then gradually improved, but somehow he doesn't seem the same player now (with L'pool). Looking at the outcome of the careers of Lambert, Lallana, Lovren and Clyne I don't see that they have improved because of their big moves, and they surely didn't just become " bad players " after they left. Finally, I think a sustained period with the same manager would also go a long way towards " blending " a good squad together over a longer period. Edited 24 February, 2016 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadesmith Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 We also have a great record of rehabilitating managers. Is there any team in the history of the premier league where managers have made the decision to leave rather than be pushed as they have been offered 'better' jobs. Alan Ball, Graeme Souness, Glenn Hoddle, Pochettino and Gordon Strachan (although I think he just got bored & wanted a year out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 We also have a great record of rehabilitating managers. Is there any team in the history of the premier league where managers have made the decision to leave rather than be pushed as they have been offered 'better' jobs. Alan Ball, Graeme Souness, Glenn Hoddle, Pochettino and Gordon Strachan (although I think he just got bored & wanted a year out) Could add Burley to that list too ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadesmith Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Could add Burley to that list too ! Good call, although I was focusing more of managers that left us while in the Premier league, as It is a bit more unusual for a manager to choose to leave while in the top division. I'm trying to think of any team that has lost so managers not through choice in the top division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 (edited) We also have a great record of rehabilitating managers. Is there any team in the history of the premier league where managers have made the decision to leave rather than be pushed as they have been offered 'better' jobs. Alan Ball, Graeme Souness, Glenn Hoddle, Pochettino and Gordon Strachan (although I think he just got bored & wanted a year out) Apart from the 6-3 against 10-man Utd he was utter shit for us. Edited 24 February, 2016 by Dark Munster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Could add Burley to that list too ! dont think burley was rehabilitated in any way at saints. he was shyte and we got lucky that scotland lost their mind and hired him (for a bit) not worked since, I dont think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadesmith Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Apart from the 6-3 against 10-man Utd he was utter shit for us. OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 dont think burley was rehabilitated in any way at saints. he was shyte and we got lucky that scotland lost their mind and hired him (for a bit) not worked since, I dont think Exactly. Burley was a failure and got the job at Scotland based entirely on about three months work at Hearts two years previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 dont think burley was rehabilitated in any way at saints. he was shyte and we got lucky that scotland lost their mind and hired him (for a bit) not worked since, I dont think Ipswich Town - During an 8 year reign he took Ipswich to 3 play off semi finals before winning promotion to the Prem at the 4th attempt. The following season he guided the club to 5th place and qualified for the EUFA cup (yes Batman, 5th place). He won the Manager of the Year award in 2000-1. Derby - Burley managed to halt Derbys alarming slide towards the relegation zone and kept the club up comfortably. The following season was a struggle with Derby finishing one place lower than the previous season but there were sign of improvement. This showed in the 2004-5 season when despite spending no money on new players Burley transformed Derby from relegation contenders to a fourth place finish and play off semi finalists. Hearts - A stunning start to his tenure as Hearts manager saw them top of the SPL after the first 10 games winning 8. Saints - as we know, play offs in 2006-7. Yep Batman, shyte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Ipswich Town - During an 8 year reign he took Ipswich to 3 play off semi finals before winning promotion to the Prem at the 4th attempt. The following season he guided the club to 5th place and qualified for the EUFA cup (yes Batman, 5th place). He won the Manager of the Year award in 2000-1. Derby - Burley managed to halt Derbys alarming slide towards the relegation zone and kept the club up comfortably. The following season was a struggle with Derby finishing one place lower than the previous season but there were sign of improvement. This showed in the 2004-5 season when despite spending no money on new players Burley transformed Derby from relegation contenders to a fourth place finish and play off semi finalists. Hearts - A stunning start to his tenure as Hearts manager saw them top of the SPL after the first 10 games winning 8. Saints - as we know, play offs in 2006-7. Yep Batman, shyte. I said he was shyte at saints to the question of being here was some sort of rehabilitation for him.......when it clearly was not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Ipswich Town - During an 8 year reign he took Ipswich to 3 play off semi finals before winning promotion to the Prem at the 4th attempt. The following season he guided the club to 5th place and qualified for the EUFA cup (yes Batman, 5th place). He won the Manager of the Year award in 2000-1. Derby - Burley managed to halt Derbys alarming slide towards the relegation zone and kept the club up comfortably. The following season was a struggle with Derby finishing one place lower than the previous season but there were sign of improvement. This showed in the 2004-5 season when despite spending no money on new players Burley transformed Derby from relegation contenders to a fourth place finish and play off semi finalists. Hearts - A stunning start to his tenure as Hearts manager saw them top of the SPL after the first 10 games winning 8. Saints - as we know, play offs in 2006-7. Yep Batman, shyte. How about you try reading and understanding the posts before you post utterly irrelevant information? Just a suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 I said he was shyte at saints to the question of being here was some sort of rehabilitation for him.......when it clearly was not No, you said he was shyte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 How about you try reading and understanding the posts before you post utterly irrelevant information? Just a suggestion. Batman said he was shyte. I pointed out that he wasn't, or at least not shyte at ever club he managed. HTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 No, you said he was shyte. I kicked of my point with.....dont think burley was rehabilitated in any way at saints I think went on to qualify with my thoughts on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 dont think burley was rehabilitated in any way at saints. he was shyte and we got lucky that scotland lost their mind and hired him (for a bit) not worked since, I dont think Here you go Batman. "He was shyte..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Here you go Batman. "He was shyte..." why are you being so weird. it is quite clear I was following on my opening point about his time at saints. which was a response to the OP...about time at saints now doubt you will want the last word...so what ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 I Think Saints are one of the best clubs at nurturing talent, so many have left and gone downhill. I guess it's because we have a good set-up and there is less pressure here than at the big clubs. Plus there must be less distractions here than at places like London. Play for a London club and you have the bright lights, night clubs, parties etc - being a pro footballer there and I expect you spend half your time off your face on coke and scrotum deep in supermodels. Southampton has The Orange Rooms, La Margeritas and a Nandos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Here you go Batman. "He was shyte..." You could quote the entire post, couldn't you. Here it is. Try reading it. I said he was shyte at saints to the question of being here was some sort of rehabilitation for him.......when it clearly was not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 dont think burley was rehabilitated in any way at saints. he was shyte and we got lucky that scotland lost their mind and hired him (for a bit) not worked since, I dont think I was responding to this post from Batman in which he says that Burley "was shyte." If you want to narrow it down to his time at Southampton then in his one full season as manager he took us to the play offs. If you and Batman think that was "shyte" sobeit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 why are you being so weird. it is quite clear I was following on my opening point about his time at saints. which was a response to the OP...about time at saints now doubt you will want the last word...so what ever I am not being weird. I have just responded to your point. If you want the last word, go ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nta786 Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Pelle is often used as an example by Les Reed too= we did technically make him an Italian international too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 I was responding to this post from Batman in which he says that Burley "was shyte." If you want to narrow it down to his time at Southampton then in his one full season as manager he took us to the play offs. If you and Batman think that was "shyte" sobeit. It's pretty much a compulsion to fabricate stuff about other posters isn't it. Batman said he was shyte at Southampton. Clearly and unequivocally. Why you are hacking his post to pretend he said something different us something I'm not sure any of is will understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 It's pretty much a compulsion to fabricate stuff about other posters isn't it. Batman said he was shyte at Southampton. Clearly and unequivocally. Why you are hacking his post to pretend he said something different us something I'm not sure any of is will understand. If you read it again you will see that he didn't say he was shyte at Southampton. He said he was shyte. I haven't hi jacked anything I have just responded to what Batman said. You seem to want to make a big deal about it. Why is that? Serious stuff this internet isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 (edited) You are a fecking odd-bod I have seen plenty of others accusing you of making stuff up about other people's posts. Now I can see it My point started with a preamble about his time at saints. The further part did NOT need qualifying about his time at saints as that was made clear in the beginning: that part after my initial qualification was even elaborated by an event of his time at saints. Should I have made a point of his time away from saints, that WOULD need qualification Fecking hell Edited 24 February, 2016 by Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 dont think burley was rehabilitated in any way at saints. he was shyte and we got lucky that scotland lost their mind and hired him (for a bit) not worked since, I dont think What have I made up? You say quite clearly "He was shyte" in your second sentence. I haven't worked out how to doctor other peoples posts so it was what you typed. By the way, did you know that at the point that he left, he had the best points per game ratio of any of our post war managers, including Bates and McMenemy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 If you read it again you will see that he didn't say he was shyte at Southampton. He said he was shyte. I haven't hi jacked anything I have just responded to what Batman said. You seem to want to make a big deal about it. Why is that? Serious stuff this internet isn't it? Read the post Batman quoted. Read Batman's reply. All the words. Read all the words in both posts. Read them slowly. Read them in order. Give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 I still don't think getting us to the play offs constitutes shyte? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Read the post Batman quoted. Read Batman's reply. All the words. Read all the words in both posts. Read them slowly. Read them in order. Give it a try. Do you know what? I did. And do you know what. Nowhere does it say "He was shyte at Southampton." On my PC it says "He was shyte...." Why is this such a big deal for you? You do get carried away by the least important things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 I still don't think getting us to the play offs constitutes shyte? Well apparently it is. But also it is more important to have a row about what was said against what was meant. I think it is called a diversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Now you have said he was Shyte. I can see those words in a post of yours. Make your mind up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Another classic saintsweb thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Ok so lets pretend we are grown ups shall we? Putting the way that Batman made his point to one side - are we saying that getting to the play offs and getting the highest points per game ratio at the time is "shyte" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Now you have said he was Shyte. I can see those words in a post of yours. Make your mind up. Oh dear.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Another classic saintsweb thread And we pay a fiver for this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Do you know what? I did. And do you know what. Nowhere does it say "He was shyte at Southampton." On my PC it says "He was shyte...." Why is this such a big deal for you? You do get carried away by the least important things. Read the post before. Read Batman's reply. Read them. Really try and read them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 SOG - isn't the point here that you read a potentially ambiguous statement of Batman's one way, to which he clarified that he meant it another way? Given that he clarified it and the intent in his statement is now unambiguous, why not just drop it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
percy windham Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Christ, another oddball triple threat match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Another classic saintsweb thread Absolutely. This one's a keeper. (see what I did there?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 SOG - isn't the point here that you read a potentially ambiguous statement of Batman's one way, to which he clarified that he meant it another way? Given that he clarified it and the intent in his statement is now unambiguous, why not just drop it? Perhaps you ought to ask Fry to drop it? Is it really such a big deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbria Saint Posted 24 February, 2016 Author Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Well well. And there was me thinking I had started a vaguely interesting thread about how Saints nurture and improve their players. At the last count precisely 4 of the 40 replies have anything at all to do with nurturing players. They make some interesting points as do a few about nurturing our managers. The remaining posts though are just a load of point scoring b*ll*cks. What a waste of time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilsmer Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Arsenal certainly haven't developed Oxlade-Chamberlain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Or Chambers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 I still don't think getting us to the play offs constitutes shyte? From memory we were one of the biggest spenders that season, as well as being one of the favourites for auto promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Is it fair to say Saintsweb recruits posters and turns them into better posters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Is it fair to say Saintsweb recruits posters and turns them into better posters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 Is it fair to say Saintsweb recruits posters and turns them into better posters? I can't wait for a Liverpool forum to offer us £20 million for Batman. Unfortunate for the OP, but these things happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 You could add VVD to that list and maybe also Font, Wanyama, JRod and maybe Mané as well. You could probably add Martina to this list as many here had written him off as a pub footballer when he first joined us but he has shown he can do a job since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 24 February, 2016 Share Posted 24 February, 2016 I'd like to think I've improved as I approach my 10k posts mark but it's probably more accurate to say "evolved with age." Unfortunately some posters have seen a rapid decline in posting quality over the years, in this threads case, over a few minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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