So we do miss Vic!

[Roger]

He's been below par all season, let us down on two occasions and will prob go in summer but without him teams seem to go through us easier. Bournemouth was a big case of that. I don't think a lot of what happened there would of without Vic. Thoughts?

[georgeweahscousin]

Romeu is playing well....

 

....but he is a cheap alternative to Victor in my opinion. We miss Wanyama when he doesn't play.

[stevegrant]

Wanyama, like quite a few of our players, is very useful in certain circumstances but a waste of space in others.

 

When we don't have the ball, he's very useful as he's good at winning it back and providing a shield for the defence, but when we have the ball and want to go forwards, I don't think anyone would legitimately try to claim that he's a better passer or dribbler than Romeu. He would have been very useful against Chelsea, for example, where we had very little possession and needed more bodies to win it back.

 

I don't think the issue at Bournemouth was them "going through us", as 99% of their play was down the wings and they only scored because of poor concentration from two set pieces. Despite how bloody awful we were, that was still the only difference.

 

Yesterday was a failure to take the handful of good chances we created in the first half and then a collective lack of responsibility taken by 3 or 4 players compounded by Yoshida getting his legs in a tangle for their goal.

[Nordic Saint]

You really could see how much we missed Wanyama yesterday. Sunderland dominated the centre of midfield and had us pegged back in our own half for long spells. We had no one to do battle with their midfield and take control of the centre of the pitch like Wanyama does.

[Sour Mash]

He's a good player, but we can't rely on him. Got to plan for the next few years without him.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

All quality players are missed

[corky morris]

Romeu is a better footballer than Wanyama. Wanyama is a better defensive midfielder than every other player we have. BUT he is a very very poor passer of the ball.

Personally think we won't miss him as long as we can acquire some pace & width.

[angelman]

Wanyama - very disappointed with his performances that were partially responsible for us being knocked out of Europe. It might not have been a big thing for him, not least the biggest competition, but some of us fans have waited 12 years for it. He has played better though after the transfer window closed.But there is always that bit about him looking to move on. Rom is good enough, maybe not so physically imposing but offers a lot more going forward. While you couldn't call him particularly creative, what creativity he has shines out as that is what we are lacking in midfield.

 

Was thinking about Mané - his stand out performance was against Chelsea away. He had a good game vs Arsenal at home but can't remember too many more. Is that being a little unfair? He has scored 3 goals this season, the last being the draw at Anfield in October. Pelle as well - too many silly flicks, not enough goals, etc etc.

 

I wouldn't particularly mind selling all 3 in the closed season.

[Saint Charlie]

Wanyama is our best defensive midfielder. Not the best on the ball but in terms of defensive work, winning duels etc he is head and shoulders above Clasie or Romeu.

 

Which is why he always plays when available.

[richardc]

When Wanyama is on form he's a great player and should be in the team - when he's not on form he is not as good as Clasie or Romeu - For most of this season hes been poor and shouldnt be in the team. At the moment he is benefitting from the syndrome that some players are rated vastly more when they are injured than they are when they are playing

[Wade Garrett]

Not much point having a player who wins the ball 20 times in a game and gives the ball away 20 times.

 

Watched Morgan today, he is an absolute shadow of the player he was for us.

[angelman]

Also not much point having a player who is going to be banned through indiscipline for 12 games (at least).

[Saint Charlie]

Also not much point having a player who is going to be banned through indiscipline for 12 games (at least).

The other seasons he has barely been banned so its probably a one off.

[mrfahaji]

You really could see how much we missed Wanyama yesterday. Sunderland dominated the centre of midfield and had us pegged back in our own half for long spells. We had no one to do battle with their midfield and take control of the centre of the pitch like Wanyama does.

 

Did they? Moments before Fonte's red I said "it's almost easy to forget that Sunderland could actually score". Pretty sure I wouldn't have said this if they had been camped in our half. I think it was more that they sat the midfield deep and gave us little space to work with. Romeu was excellent and I really didn't feel that Wanyama was the player we missed. I'd say that was more likely Shlong.

[derry]

Now we are down to the final stages of the season when teams are competing for known achievements, Europe, escaping relegation for example. The competitive part of the game has ratcheted up a notch. In that respect we are light in midfield because the non combative Davis wants to find space, rotate the ball and avoid physical contact. Clasie and Romeu are massively outnumbered in midfield and up against it as they are the only midfield players competing physically.

 

In my opinion we need Wanyama back alongside Clasie with the impressive, combative Romeu replacing Davis giving us once again a combative ball winning midfield and a player that is prepared to get up in support of the strikers and more importantly pass forward and then keep going forward.

[SonicBoom]

I would love to see three in the middle that compliment each other. A DM like Vic or Romeu, someone that moves the ball on quickly like Clasie or Davis, then a genuinely creative player who can support the striker. I really don't think we have this type of player.

Someone like a Coutinho or a Willian (yes I know they are out of our price range, it's just an example).

I think we've dropped points this season due to the combination we play in the middle. With combinations of Vic, Clasie, Davis , and JWP there just doesn't seem to be any guile. None of them can beat a man. I'd love to see a player there that can beat their man and drive toward the box. Then they could shoot, or play in the striker or even lay it wide once they'd committed a defender to come out to them.

Our central midfield is pretty strong in the tackle and can pass reasonably but there is never any penetration. They have to go wide to Tadic, Mane or Targett or whoever, which the opposition know too.

I know those players are expensive but they also win you tight games and we simply don't have one.

[Max]

Vic may not be 100% consistent, but he brings so much to the team and we're a better team with him in it. Different players obv, but Le Tiss was not consistent and had many flaws but you'd always pick him as he was a different class of player. I'd rather a team of Vics and MLTs than a team of Telfers, Milners, Phil Nevilles, Steven Davis' - the 6.5/7 out of 10s week in week out. Entertainment and moments of magic over work ethic and rigid mechanics for me! But truth is you need a blend.

 

Brilliantly inconsistent/potential liability/mercurial genius IX:

 

-------------------Higuita------------------

Cafu-------Ivanov------Massing----Roberto Carlos

-------Valderrama-----Big Vic(in keeping with thread)---

---Le Tissier-------------------Ronaldinho----

---------Frank Worthington---Stoichkov----------

 

Subs: Grobbelaar, Gascoigne, Friday, Rigobert Song, Mark Dennis, Vinnie Jones, Wegerle

 

Probably wouldn't win consistently but would always be worth watching.

[Roger]

Vic may not be 100% consistent, but he brings so much to the team and we're a better team with him in it. Different players obv, but Le Tiss was not consistent and had many flaws but you'd always pick him as he was a different class of player. I'd rather a team of Vics and MLTs than a team of Telfers, Milners, Phil Nevilles, Steven Davis' - the 6.5/7 out of 10s week in week out. Entertainment and moments of magic over work ethic and rigid mechanics for me! But truth is you need a blend.

 

Brilliantly inconsistent/potential liability/mercurial genius IX:

 

-------------------Higuita------------------

Cafu-------Ivanov------Massing----Roberto Carlos

-------Valderrama-----Big Vic(in keeping with thread)---

---Le Tissier-------------------Ronaldinho----

---------Frank Worthington---Stoichkov----------

 

Subs: Grobbelaar, Gascoigne, Friday, Rigobert Song, Mark Dennis, Vinnie Jones, Wegerle

 

Probably wouldn't win consistently but would always be worth watching.

 

Le tiss was very consistent at his peak. Look st the goals he scored and made. Davis scored about 9 in 150! And jwp 3 in 100. Now that is inconsistent.

[RobM]

Against Bournemouth I thought we missed Clasie more than Wanyama. Clasie is everywhere normally, chasing and hurrying the opposition, hustling them and forcing them to keep moving even if he can't win the ball back. When he does get the ball, he has already worked out the pass he wishes to make and does so quickly.

 

Romeu lacks the sheer physical presence and aggression of Wanyama and is closer to Clasie in the way he plays, perhaps reducing the CM overall effectiveness when playing alongside him compared to a Wanyama and Clasie partnership, but I do rate him as a better footballer.

 

Wanyama is big, strong, combative and much more defensive minded than the others. He has a part to play in our team, but only if the tactics and opposition are right. IMO it's Wanyama and Clasie when we're likely to need to win the ball back often, it's Romeu and Clasie when we're going to enjoy more time on the ball.

[Kingsland Red]

If Vic is off and Sunderland go down, we could do worse than that guy in front of their back four (Kirchoff?). I thought he was useful as a defensive midfielder.

[Son of Bob]

If Vic is off and Sunderland go down, we could do worse than that guy in front of their back four (Kirchoff?). I thought he was useful as a defensive midfielder.

 

Agreed. Thought he looked like their best player.

[Max]

Le tiss was very consistent at his peak. Look st the goals he scored and made. Davis scored about 9 in 150! And jwp 3 in 100. Now that is inconsistent.

 

Le Tiss is my favourite player of all time, but he didn't work for the team when we weren't in possession, so against the teams that were better than us and we didn't get much of the ball we couldn't "give it to Le Tiss" and therefore he'd disappear from games. And that's not a criticism of him, just part of what made him the player he was.

[The9]

He's been below par all season, let us down on two occasions and will prob go in summer but without him teams seem to go through us easier. Bournemouth was a big case of that. I don't think a lot of what happened there would of without Vic. Thoughts?

 

Bournemouth went around us (and created nothing in open play) not through us. Plus what we needed was a DM who was able to pick an 'out' pass under pressure, and I'm fairly sure Wanyama is no better than Romeu at that. Strange time to suggest it when Sunderland's goal was from a defensive error in the box (I don't need to say who it was by, only that Yoshida was on the pitch and people will work it out) and the defensive midfield had kept them out for the rest of the match and weren't to blame for it.

[The9]

Not much point having a player who wins the ball 20 times in a game and gives the ball away 20 times.

 

Watched Morgan today, he is an absolute shadow of the player he was for us.

 

He's gone to crap in the past 6 weeks along with the general drop off in their first choice starters around him, he was excellent for them before that.

[Max]

Would you rather a lion for 60 mins followed by a bloodbath, or a sheep for 90 mins followed by a foot long buttclegg? Every team needs a Vic.

[shurlock]

Bournemouth went around us (and created nothing in open play) not through us. Plus what we needed was a DM who was able to pick an 'out' pass under pressure, and I'm fairly sure Wanyama is no better than Romeu at that. Strange time to suggest it when Sunderland's goal was from a defensive error in the box (I don't need to say who it was by, only that Yoshida was on the pitch and people will work it out) and the defensive midfield had kept them out for the rest of the match and weren't to blame for it.

 

What utter guff as per usual. Went around us, not through us So a player like Wanyama isn't given license cover sideways, where necessary? Especially if the opponent's gameplan is to concentrate on the flanks.

 

Its pretty to safe that had Wanyama been playing instead of JWP (alongside Romeu), he would have provided Soares much more cover. As it was, JWP tried but struggled all night with the overlaps down our right.

[Batman]

if bournemouth went round us, how come surman ran the game. Like fabregas the game before?

[Whitey Grandad]

Would you rather a lion for 60 mins followed by a bloodbath, or a sheep for 90 mins followed by a foot long buttclegg? Every team needs a Vic.

 

So does every blocked nose but other approaches are available

[david in sweden]

Not much point having a player who wins the ball 20 times in a game and gives the ball away 20 times.

 

Watched Morgan today, he is an absolute shadow of the player he was for us.

 

....and lots of us have noticed that as well....good at ball-winning (sometimes ), but his subsequent passing is often diabolical .......

[david in sweden]

Le tiss was very consistent at his peak. Look st the goals he scored and made. Davis scored about 9 in 150! And jwp 3 in 100. Now that is inconsistent.

 

 

...you have to compare like with like.....MLT was an attacking midfielder who scored more than most of the strikers he played with, Davis is rarely seen up front with attackers, and his goal record was not the reason he was bought, he DAJFU in midfield.

 

JWP is still young, and the chances he's missed point to unlucky rather than a lack of skill.