We're back in the JPT!

[Nordic Saint]

I think it is almost guaranteed we will get grouped with Portsmouth....this could end up being very very funny!

 

Not if they beat us, and our U21s certainly aren't guaranteed a win against them. You can just imagine the gloating if they win and presumably it would go into the record books as a first team fixture.

[edprice1984]

True there is that danger, but personally I would love us to have the chance to beat them with an u21 side.

 

"We beat you with kids, we beat you with kiiiiiddddds, f*ck off Skate B*st*rds, we beat you with kids"

[Saint Without a Halo]

Not if they beat us, and our U21s certainly aren't guaranteed a win against them. You can just imagine the gloating if they win and presumably it would go into the record books as a first team fixture.

 

No it is not a first team fixture they have invited Academies

Anyway Pompey are likely to need the 10k prize money from the match

[derry]

There is no point in entering it if we don't use it to give experience of men's football to the academy players.

[a1ex2001]

There is no point in entering it if we don't use it to give experience of men's football to the academy players.

 

It's a tricky balance sending out a pure academy side against a seasoned lower league outfit is more likely to damage there development! You would need at least a couple of more experienced players out there to steady the ship with leadership and experience.

[spyinthesky]

I doubt if our U21's would beat a full mid/upper table L2 side but it would be really embarrassing if they did.

 

Undoubtedly the game would be classed as a 'First Team Fixture' and potentially reduce our win ratio (the best of any English derby games) if we were to lose_

 

Could also imagine a decent sized away following turning up at SMS as a 'badge of honour' to make their presence felt in a sub 10,000 crowd

 

I doubt if too many Saints fans would turn up at Fratton Park if the game was there

[JRM]

I doubt if our U21's would beat a full mid/upper table L2 side but it would be really embarrassing if they did.

 

Undoubtedly the game would be classed as a 'First Team Fixture' and potentially reduce our win ratio (the best of any English derby games) if we were to lose_

 

Could also imagine a decent sized away following turning up at SMS as a 'badge of honour' to make their presence felt in a sub 10,000 crowd

 

I doubt if too many Saints fans would turn up at Fratton Park if the game was there

 

it is an interesting point, the Football League have "invited academies" to take part in the competition, but that is a red herring as when you look at the rules it is actually the football club taking part - with 5 over aged players allowed to take part and a number of first team players being under age anyway (i've read in some articles that the age threshold will be 23) it certainly is not restricted to a development squad and so should not be reported as such.

What i find most difficult to understand is the tournament starts next month and they are still unclear who is going to take part - it is as if they just expected all of the invited teams to accept but most of the "big" clubs are not interested.

[Nordic Saint]

I doubt if our U21's would beat a full mid/upper table L2 side but it would be really embarrassing if they did.

 

Undoubtedly the game would be classed as a 'First Team Fixture' and potentially reduce our win ratio (the best of any English derby games) if we were to lose_

 

Could also imagine a decent sized away following turning up at SMS as a 'badge of honour' to make their presence felt in a sub 10,000 crowd

 

I doubt if too many Saints fans would turn up at Fratton Park if the game was there

 

As the majority of teams in the competition will be fielding their first teams, it will definitely go into the record books as a first team fixture.There would certainly be a capacity crowd at Fratton Park for a night game which our academy players would not find easy. It's the best posssible derby game as far as Pompey are concerned as they will be facing a weak Saints team. It would, of course, be great if we won it but, I'd much rather we got them in the FA Cup when we would almost certainly beat them and get revenge for our recent winless run against them.

[VectisSaint]

it is an interesting point, the Football League have "invited academies" to take part in the competition, but that is a red herring as when you look at the rules it is actually the football club taking part - with 5 over aged players allowed to take part and a number of first team players being under age anyway (i've read in some articles that the age threshold will be 23) it certainly is not restricted to a development squad and so should not be reported as such.

What i find most difficult to understand is the tournament starts next month and they are still unclear who is going to take part - it is as if they just expected all of the invited teams to accept but most of the "big" clubs are not interested.

While it may not be restricted to a development squad, the rules for the PL Academy teams are similar (but not the same) as the Premier League Under 21 league. The FLT rules allow one extra over age player (PL U21 allows 3 over age plus goal keeper) and the date for u21 consideration is June, instead of January, hence some players are u21 for the League, but not u21 for the FLT. We have one or two players in this category (i.e born between January and June 1995). Since the point of teams being able to enter their u21 teams in this competition is to provide more competitive match opportunities for these players it would be rather pointless if the teams did not enter essentially their development teams, with the same proviso that they have in the League, i.e. they can play some over age players, usually ones returning from injury or 1st team squad fringe players. The idea that the clubs would bolster these teams with a host of senior first teamers, whilst possible, would be completely pointless and I doubt any will do this. I would be very surprised if we don't field what is essentially the same team as we do in the u21 league. Unlikely we will play any regular first team u21 players, unless they are recovering from injury or have not played for a while.

 

As for the organisation, it does seem a bit strange that the FL did not get confirmed entries, but then organising the fixtures so that they clash with the European Youth (U19) competition is a touch stupid, as clubs such as Man City and Chelsea (holders) take that competition very seriously. Not sure that Chelsea have qualified even though they have won it for the past 2 seasons, English entries this season should be Leicester, Arsenal and Spurs (based on 1st team Champions League group stage qualification) and Man City as winners of the domestic u18 competition.

[Pamplemousse]

The draw for this takes place tomorrow at 10am

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_EFL_Trophy

 

All the teams will be confirmed tomorrow at 9.30am

[The9]

The draw for this takes place tomorrow at 10am

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_EFL_Trophy

 

All the teams will be confirmed tomorrow at 9.30am

 

Not that they're scrambling to get people to accept or anything...

[The9]

While it may not be restricted to a development squad, the rules for the PL Academy teams are similar (but not the same) as the Premier League Under 21 league. The FLT rules allow one extra over age player (PL U21 allows 3 over age plus goal keeper) and the date for u21 consideration is June, instead of January, hence some players are u21 for the League, but not u21 for the FLT. We have one or two players in this category (i.e born between January and June 1995). Since the point of teams being able to enter their u21 teams in this competition is to provide more competitive match opportunities for these players it would be rather pointless if the teams did not enter essentially their development teams, with the same proviso that they have in the League, i.e. they can play some over age players, usually ones returning from injury or 1st team squad fringe players. The idea that the clubs would bolster these teams with a host of senior first teamers, whilst possible, would be completely pointless and I doubt any will do this. I would be very surprised if we don't field what is essentially the same team as we do in the u21 league. Unlikely we will play any regular first team u21 players, unless they are recovering from injury or have not played for a while.

 

As for the organisation, it does seem a bit strange that the FL did not get confirmed entries, but then organising the fixtures so that they clash with the European Youth (U19) competition is a touch stupid, as clubs such as Man City and Chelsea (holders) take that competition very seriously. Not sure that Chelsea have qualified even though they have won it for the past 2 seasons, English entries this season should be Leicester, Arsenal and Spurs (based on 1st team Champions League group stage qualification) and Man City as winners of the domestic u18 competition.

 

The Premier League U21 League doesn't exist any more either.

[USA SaintsFan]

Since "Sixteen groups of 4 teams will be organised on a regionalised basis," does that mean our U23s are very likely to draw Pompey?

[fish fingers]

Given Reading have confirmed they are "In" that means 7 PL teams have turned it down.

It's a complete shambles.

[The9]

it is an interesting point, the Football League have "invited academies" to take part in the competition, but that is a red herring as when you look at the rules it is actually the football club taking part - with 5 over aged players allowed to take part and a number of first team players being under age anyway (i've read in some articles that the age threshold will be 23) it certainly is not restricted to a development squad and so should not be reported as such.

What i find most difficult to understand is the tournament starts next month and they are still unclear who is going to take part - it is as if they just expected all of the invited teams to accept but most of the "big" clubs are not interested.

 

The thing I realised today is that Barnsley are the holders, and not allowed to defend their title as they're a Championship club now, but because of the Prem clubs rejecting the invitation there are now Championship clubs who've been invited to compete with their academy side. It's all a bit of a mess.

[The9]

Since "Sixteen groups of 4 teams will be organised on a regionalised basis," does that mean our U23s are very likely to draw Pompey?

 

The early stages of the JPT were split North/South and then East/West within that split as well, so if they stick with that (and don't put us and them in different sides of the east/west sections) it's pretty likely.

 

This is from last year:

http://www.newsatden.co.uk/49546-millwall-to-know-jpt-first-round-opponents-on-saturday.html

 

"Millwall are among eight teams in the South (East) section with Colchester United, Dagenham and Redbridge, Northampton Town, Cambridge United, Leyton Orient, Luton Town and Peterborough.

 

Should they progress they will face one of the four sides (Crawley Town, Southend United, Gillingham and Stevenage) who received byes to round two."

 

The Skates aren't listed so they were in the South (West) section last time, which means if they stay there, as we're further west than them we'll be in the same section.

 

They'll then have a 3/15 chance (1/5) of playing Saints U23s. There are 16 groups of 4 teams and 64 sides in total, which most likely will be evenly split by region into 4 groups per region.

 

This is all depending on the regionalisation being east/west as well as North/South.

Edited 26 July, 2016 by The9

[JRM]

The early stages of the JPT were split North/South and then East/West within that split as well, so if they stick with that (and don't put us and them in different sides of the east/west sections) it's pretty likely.

 

This is from last year:

http://www.newsatden.co.uk/49546-millwall-to-know-jpt-first-round-opponents-on-saturday.html

 

"Millwall are among eight teams in the South (East) section with Colchester United, Dagenham and Redbridge, Northampton Town, Cambridge United, Leyton Orient, Luton Town and Peterborough.

 

Should they progress they will face one of the four sides (Crawley Town, Southend United, Gillingham and Stevenage) who received byes to round two."

 

The Skates aren't listed so they were in the South (West) section last time, which means if they stay there, as we're further west than them we'll be in the same section.

 

They'll then have a 3/15 chance (1/5) of playing Saints U23s. There are 16 groups of 4 teams and 64 sides in total, which most likely will be evenly split by region into 4 groups per region.

 

This is all depending on the regionalisation being east/west as well as North/South.

 

It looks like Brighton and Reading are both in this now, I'd bet a fair amount that Pompey will be grouped with one of them for the lucrative tie whereas we'll get Yeovil or Exeter

[The9]

It looks like Brighton and Reading are both in this now, I'd bet a fair amount that Pompey will be grouped with one of them for the lucrative tie whereas we'll get Yeovil or Exeter

 

Its a group stage now, so you could get 4 of the 5 you mentioned all in one group. They'd have to be daft not to split it so the Academies are seeded evenly across the groups though.

 

Also I don't think Brighton U23s v Portsmouth is particularly lucrative...

[VectisSaint]

The Premier League U21 League doesn't exist any more either.

It did when I wrote that.

[The9]

Come to think of it, if you're looking for a non-lucrative draw in the EFL Trophy South (West) group stages, how about Newport County?

[The9]

It did when I wrote that.

 

It didn't, they just hadn't announced it. MLG knew.

[Fabrice29]

Has it been confirmed if we are in or out of this yet?

[The9]

Has it been confirmed if we are in or out of this yet?

 

It hasn't been confirmed that we're turning down the invitation, and it has been confirmed that we've been invited.

 

Given that everyone else who's turned it down has publicised it, I'd be very surprised if we were out and no-one (not even the Echo) had reported it.

[Pamplemousse]

The only reason the bigger teams turned down the invitation was because it clashed with international U21 fixtures that had already been arranged.

 

Not sure about the other teams but Man City said they would've taken part otherwise.

[The9]

They'd have to be daft not to split it so the Academies are seeded evenly across the groups though.

 

Just spotted on the Wiki page that they are indeed seeding the invited teams, so there will be one of those per group (and therefore we can't play another invited team), so the odds of drawing the Skates in a regionalised N/S and E/W draw will actually be 1/3 as we will be drawn against 3 of the 9 non-seeded teams... and that at least ONE game will be played at the "Invited Clubs'" first team home ground.

 

There is also an extra point for winning a penalty shoot out after a draw.

Edited 26 July, 2016 by The9

[The9]

The only reason the bigger teams turned down the invitation was because it clashed with international U21 fixtures that had already been arranged.

 

Not sure about the other teams but Man City said they would've taken part otherwise.

 

Says here that Spurs and Arsenal were concerned with it clashing with International breaks: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jul/08/premier-league-clubs-opt-out-of-revamped-english-football-league-trophy and it also says Saints are planning on participating.

 

...and that Man City have international U21 games, as you said: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36763761

 

We're allowed to field 5 over 21 players in the matches though, shall we see how good a side we can put out under that criterion?

Edited 26 July, 2016 by The9

[The9]

A quick look at the Match dates and the U23s fixtures should pretty much confirm that we'll be participating:

 

EFL Trophy Group Stage

29 August - 4 September 2016 (midweek between the Sunderland H and Arsenal A games, no first team fixture and the U23s have no match between 28 Aug and 12 Sep - this is not an International break week).

3-9 October 2016 (midweek after Leicester A, no first team fixture and Burnley H isn't until 10 days later, no U23 match between 23 September and 14 October, but it is an International Break)

7-13 November 2016 (midweek after Hull A, no first team fixture and Liverpool H isn't until 10 days later, no U23 match from 31 October to 21 November, also an International Break)

 

Looks like the non-internationals will be making up the overage contingent for two of those dates then...

[The9]

A quick n dirty list which might have one or two inaccuracies, but... available overage players (non-internationals for the last 2 group fixtures) from which we can select 5.

 

5 Romania DF Florin Gardoș (maybe)

9 England FW Jay Rodriguez

14 Spain MF Oriol Romeu

15 Curaçao DF Cuco Martina (maybe)

16 England MF James Ward-Prowse

18 England MF Harrison Reed

25 Argentina GK Paulo Gazzaniga

27 Wales MF Lloyd Isgrove

28 England FW Charlie Austin

33 England DF Matt Targett

— England MF Nathan Redmond

 

U23s

24 England DF Jack Stephens

29 England DF Bevis Mugabi

30 England DF Will Wood

31 England MF Armani Little

34 England MF Jake Flannigan

35 England DF Josh Debayo

36 England DF Jordan Turnbull

37 Scotland MF Harley Willard

38 England MF Sam McQueen

39 England MF Josh Sims

40 England FW Sam Gallagher

42 England MF Jake Hesketh

45 England FW Ryan Seager

46 England MF Dominic Gape

47 England FW Marcus Barnes

49 England FW Olufela Olomola

50 England DF Alfie Jones

England GK Harry Lewis

Benin DF Richard Bakary

England DF Ollie Cook

 

I think I'd pick Rodriguez and Austin

[The9]

Oh and not that the EFL are terrible at this or anything, but this article says "The EFL will announce all Category 1 Academy teams participating in next season’s EFL Trophy at 9.30am on Wednesday 27th June 2016."

 

http://www.efl.com/news/article/2016/efl-trophy-group-stage-draw-date-announced-3207560.aspx

 

Which is great and everything, but they mean Wednesday 27th July and didn't publish the article until today.

[Saint Without a Halo]

It looks like Brighton and Reading are both in this now, I'd bet a fair amount that Pompey will be grouped with one of them for the lucrative tie whereas we'll get Yeovil or Exeter

 

The first stage is a group of four so we get three games one home and two away if we are in the same group as Pompey we will play them however there is only one academy allowed in each group. So we may fill in a gap elsewhere

[SuperSAINT]

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/20160727-announcement-southampton-efl-trophy-2016-17-3208350.aspx

[nta786]

Dont like the idea. Only good thing is that maybe I can go visit some League 2 stadiums!

 

Also has the draw taken place to some extent because they've already shown possible teams we could play (and theres no Portsmouth?) on the OFficial site

[Slugger]

Not a good idea and would prefer we had boycotted.

 

But seeing as we are bothering to be in it we might as well try and do well.

 

Better opportunity for the young players than U21/23 league.

[mrfahaji]

Might be reading it wrong but looks like we're in a different section to Portsmouth. They're in "South - Section 1", along with Chelsea, Reading & West Ham. We're in "South - Section 2" with Brighton, Norwich & West Brom.

[Shance]

Gutted.

[mrfahaji]

Portsmouth have got Reading, Bristol Rovers & Yeovil. Possibly the least glamorous of all the options.

[mrfahaji]

We've been drawn in Group E with Charlton, Colchester & Crawley.

[Nolan]

Still think that the league 1 and 2 clubs are so desperate to get to the third round fa cup to get a plum tie, that this will help all of them financially by having a guaranteed visit of a bigger club. And it gives our 2nd players competitive game time

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Lets B Avenue]

We beat Charlton on the way to winning it in 09/10.

 

Its an omen.

[Griffo]

Awful idea. Remember back to the final at Wembley and how much of a good day that was for us. We're ****ing on the other clubs by not boycotting this. It's devalued the whole competition. It's only been changed to serve the PL clubs and we shouldn't be a part of it.

[VectisSaint]

Awful idea. Remember back to the final at Wembley and how much of a good day that was for us. We're ****ing on the other clubs by not boycotting this. It's devalued the whole competition. It's only been changed to serve the PL clubs and we shouldn't be a part of it.

Only an issue if you seriously believe u21 teams will make it to the final. Highly unlikely in my opinion. Decent L1 or even top L2 teams who are playing together week in/week out will beat u21 teams who have been brought together purely for these games. Would be quite surprised if any u21 teams even make it to the semis. If it had been the u23 teams, as in PL2, then maybe things would have been different.

 

Good to see Cheltenham Town in the Northern Group, unless Cheltenham has been relocated overnight.

[LeBenali]

Awful idea. Remember back to the final at Wembley and how much of a good day that was for us. We're ****ing on the other clubs by not boycotting this. It's devalued the whole competition. It's only been changed to serve the PL clubs and we shouldn't be a part of it.

 

From a selfish perspective, if it helps the club by allowing our youngsters to experience competitive action then so be it. Yes it might not be ideal for some of the smaller clubs, but we didn't receive any favours from those above us when we were in League One, although I do accept our financial power was much stronger than nearly all the Football League clubs taking part. There's an interesting piece from a FL chairman (probably found earlier in this thread) that details why they think Prem teams entering will benefit their club.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mrfahaji]

Awful idea. Remember back to the final at Wembley and how much of a good day that was for us. We're ****ing on the other clubs by not boycotting this. It's devalued the whole competition. It's only been changed to serve the PL clubs and we shouldn't be a part of it.

 

I had a similar point of view until I read the link in alex2001's post #24.

[Danny R]

Awful idea. Remember back to the final at Wembley and how much of a good day that was for us. We're ****ing on the other clubs by not boycotting this. It's devalued the whole competition. It's only been changed to serve the PL clubs and we shouldn't be a part of it.

 

I do agree, it will awful if 2 academy teams get to the final. However, I think the point raised above is a good one in that at least the smaller teams can play at least one game against a bigger team where attendances will be bolstered. It's only really the area final when the crowds pick up.

[Griffo]

I had a similar point of view until I read the link in alex2001's post #24.

 

So all about money then. Hasn't changed my mind.

[Saints Fan Dan]

You have to have at least 5 first team players in your starting 11. This is a stupid idea, way to knacker out our players who are already playing in Europe. 8 matches altogether as well. This competition was so League 1 and 2 teams could possibly get a day out at Wembley and now it's been diluted by getting the bigger teams play.

 

And what's with that American looking EFL logo? EPL, EFL, fück off!

[Matthew Le God]

This is a stupid idea, way to knacker out our players who are already playing in Europe.

 

No it won't. It is for our under 21s, players returning from injury and fringe players.

[Griffo]

I think this is the first stage in an overall move to get B teams in the Football League. No doubt some of our more recent fans will say it's a good idea.

[Slugger]

I think this is the first stage in an overall move to get B teams in the Football League. No doubt some of our more recent fans will say it's a good idea.

From yesterday:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jul/26/top-flight-football-league-richard-scudamore-premier-league

[Griffo]

From yesterday:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jul/26/top-flight-football-league-richard-scudamore-premier-league

 

Coming from the man who has no respect for the traditions of the game, who wanted to play a 39th Prem game abroad. He's probably said that to dampen worries for now but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the aim eventually.