The United Kingdom and the Death of Boris Johnson as we know it.

[Tamesaint]

40 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

How would you solve distancing in the classroom?

Short of building probably twice the amount of classrooms in all schools in the next three weeks, I'm not sure it's possible.  It's a matter of physical space isn't it?

The same issue came up with hospitals... so they built Nightingale hospitals. Where are the "Nightingale schools"? What attempt is being made / was made  to rent space in buildings which closed due to the pandemic? Recently retired NHS staff were encouraged to return to the Health Service ... but no similar call to teaching staff.

Hancock has made many mistakes as Health Secretary but at least he has been in the limelight and attempted to solve problems. Williamson seems to have taken the opportunity afforded by Covid for a long holiday. 

 

[aintforever]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

How would you solve distancing in the classroom?

Short of building probably twice the amount of classrooms in all schools in the next three weeks, I'm not sure it's possible.  It's a matter of physical space isn't it?

They've had 6 months to plan for the start of the next school year.

[Tamesaint]

3 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

How would you solve distancing in the classroom?

Short of building probably twice the amount of classrooms in all schools in the next three weeks, I'm not sure it's possible.  It's a matter of physical space isn't it?

You don't need to have social distancing in schools. Pupils stay in year group bubbles and each year group has a particular area of the school. It will be chaotic as the teachers will move to the pupils so who will supervise the pupils in the classroom as the teachers move about ? You need additional teachers / teaching assistants for this role and in many cases additional space. Hence the need for "Nightingale schools" , rental of nearby closed buildings  etc and a call for recently retired teachers to help out. None of which has happened  or even been encouraged by dopey Williamson.

 

[Colinjb]

58 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

You don't need to have social distancing in schools. Pupils stay in year group bubbles and each year group has a particular area of the school. 

This is how we are doing it at the school I work. Along with one way systems to prevent intermixing.

At break times as well, pupils go to their tutor bases, this will prevent the need for teachers being all over the place. As for looking after the kids during lunch time, there are duty rotas for that kind of thing, just like in normal times. 

The only pain will be the reduction in time we have to prepare/mark. I'm optimistic that it can work.

Hell, I just want to be able to teach face to face again, remote learning was a waste of time for those who need to be in school most.

Edited 14 August, 2020 by Colinjb

[Weston Super Saint]

18 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

He has been incredibly quiet during the covid crisis. You would have thought that there would be some sort of plan if schools are so important that pubs will be shut to ensure that they can stay open. Has one been formulated? Has one been announced? What measures have been introduced to resolve the issues of distancing in the classroom?  Maybe something is coming but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

6 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

You don't need to have social distancing in schools.

 

Lol.  That must be the quickest volte face in the history of Saintsweb.

All over the place pal!

[Winnersaint]

6 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

You don't need to have social distancing in schools. Pupils stay in year group bubbles and each year group has a particular area of the school. It will be chaotic as the teachers will move to the pupils so who will supervise the pupils in the classroom as the teachers move about ? You need additional teachers / teaching assistants for this role and in many cases additional space. Hence the need for "Nightingale schools" , rental of nearby closed buildings  etc and a call for recently retired teachers to help out. None of which has happened  or even been encouraged by dopey Williamson.

 

Retired teacher here waiting for the call. Not holding my breath. In truth I’m offering my services to a local school I have a long term association with.

[Lord Duckhunter]

12 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

 

Williamson seems to have taken the opportunity afforded by Covid for a long holiday. 

 

Bit like many teachers then.

 

Once Johnson caved in and closed schools this was always going to happen. The people moaning from the sidelines now we’re the same ones pushing the most to close schools. It wasn’t beyond the wit or wisdom of man to socially distance the A level & GCSE pupils & continue their schooling, before sitting socially distanced exams. It’s a scandal that it didn’t happen.

Clearly Johnson will fold and do a Krankie, allowing the inflated teacher predictions to stand. It’s the latest watering down of education in this country. As an ordinary joe I thank my lucky stars my brightest 2 were able to attend Grammar schools, a luxury most parents are denied. 

[aintforever]

Another shambles from the government, obviously the only acceptable solution once they binned the exams was to accept the teachers predictions and the obvious grade inflation. It’s a freak situation, who gives a shit if the grades are a bit higher than usual.

Some of the examples on the radio today were laughable, students predicted As and got As in their mocks, downgraded to Bs and Cs.

[Lord Duckhunter]

8 hours ago, aintforever said:

Another shambles from the government, obviously the only acceptable solution once they binned the exams was to accept the teachers predictions and the obvious grade inflation. It’s a freak situation, who gives a shit if the grades are a bit higher than usual.

Some of the examples on the radio today were laughable, students predicted As and got As in their mocks, downgraded to Bs and Cs.

The kids competing with the ones given exaggerated grades will probably give a shit, as an employee I will as well. 
 

As for your second point, If they got A’s in their mocks, the triple lock announced means they’ll get A’s, so don’t know where you saw that example. The BBC probably. 
 

At the end of the day, the anger should be directed in the direction of the people who closed the schools and cancelled the exams, and the people cheering them on. That’s what’s caused the issue. 

Edited 15 August, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The kids competing with the ones given exaggerated grades will probably give a shit, as an employee I will as well. 
 

As for your second point, If they got A’s in their mocks, the triple lock announced means they’ll get A’s, so don’t know where you saw that example. The BBC probably. 
 

At the end of the day, the anger should be directed in the direction of the people who closed the schools and cancelled the exams, and the people cheering them on. That’s what’s caused the issue. 

Everyone knows that this year is a freak year and whatever grades they have been awarded may be wrong so I don’t see the issue. It’s not rocket science as an employer to look at their grades and allow for a bit of exaggeration. Anyway as a student trying to get into uni you are only really competing against people in the same year and there tends to be grade inflation every year anyway.

My point about the straight A’s is just to illustrate how flawed and unfair the system is, there will be people in different situations who haven’t done mocks or who didn’t take them seriously. Also student like that now have to go through a pointless, lengthy and expensive appeals process at a time when they should just be sorting their place at uni.

 

[Weston Super Saint]

37 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Everyone knows that this year is a freak year and whatever grades they have been awarded may be wrong so I don’t see the issue. It’s not rocket science as an employer to look at their grades and allow for a bit of exaggeration. Anyway as a student trying to get into uni you are only really competing against people in the same year and there tends to be grade inflation every year anyway.

My point about the straight A’s is just to illustrate how flawed and unfair the system is, there will be people in different situations who haven’t done mocks or who didn’t take them seriously. Also student like that now have to go through a pointless, lengthy and expensive appeals process at a time when they should just be sorting their place at uni.

 

On the one hand you say that no-one is going to give a shit about the grades being inflated, then you say that everyone knows that this year the grades awarded are wrong!  Do you not think the vast majority of students who have achieved the grades they wanted and felt they deserved are going to be pretty pissed off when everyone assumes they've been given inflated results and employers assume they're exaggerated?

As for 'lengthy and expensive appeals', D'Oh!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53787938

Quote

The government will cover the cost of schools in England appealing against exam grades after 280,000 A-level students had their marks downgraded.

Ministers are also expected to set up a taskforce, led by Schools Minister Nick Gibb, to oversee the appeals process.

The government previously said it wants the process to conclude by 7 September.

 

[Weston Super Saint]

Mind you, having said that, some of the fucktards really do deserve to spend their working lives sweeping up!

Quote

Samantha Smith, a grammar school student from Telford, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that her results had been downgraded from As and A* grades to a B, E and U.

"I know I didn't sit the exam but I didn't think I'd be treated as if I didn't turn up for the exam," she said.

What was the little princess expecting?

[Born In The 80s]

3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

At the end of the day, the anger should be directed in the direction of the people who closed the schools and cancelled the exams, and the people cheering them on. That’s what’s caused the issue. 

I totally agree. The farcical decision to cancel exams, without a proper plan, is the one that has caused this grading mess. However, wasn't that a government decision? 

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, Born In The 80s said:

I totally agree. The farcical decision to cancel exams, without a proper plan, is the one that has caused this grading mess. However, wasn't that a government decision? 

Absolutely. 100%. It’s a scandal, but the most scandalous thing is that the so called Tory party went along with the dismantling of Grammar schools and the general dumbing down of university education. 

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, Born In The 80s said:

I totally agree. The farcical decision to cancel exams, without a proper plan, is the one that has caused this grading mess. However, wasn't that a government decision? 

It was, but you could say there was a lot of persuasion from unions and head teachers....

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-14/teachers-demand-explanation-from-johnson-on-decision-not-to-shut-schools

Quote

The largest education union in Europe has written to the Prime Minister asking for full disclosure over his decision not to shut schools amid the coronavirus pandemic.

Teachers and staff are increasingly asking why the Government is not closing schools in the same way as other countries, particularly now plans are under way to ban mass gatherings, the letter from the National Education Union says.

Boris Johnson said on Thursday closures now could do "more harm than good", hours after Ireland announced schools and colleges would close for a fortnight.

 

[aintforever]

8 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

On the one hand you say that no-one is going to give a shit about the grades being inflated, then you say that everyone knows that this year the grades awarded are wrong!  Do you not think the vast majority of students who have achieved the grades they wanted and felt they deserved are going to be pretty pissed off when everyone assumes they've been given inflated results and employers assume they're exaggerated?

As for 'lengthy and expensive appeals', D'Oh!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53787938

 

The government is picking up the tab for the appeals that doesn’t mean they are free, it means the tax payer pays instead if the school.

The main issue at the moment with grades is getting a place at Uni, no student should be denied a place just because of some algorithm. These kids have had their education cut short and are being chucked out into the work market during the deepest recession ever. Surely if they can’t sit exams and prove themselves they should be given the benefit of doubt with some positive grades?

[Batman]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

The government is picking up the tab for the appeals that doesn’t mean they are free, it means the tax payer pays instead if the school.

The main issue at the moment with grades is getting a place at Uni, no student should be denied a place just because of some algorithm. These kids have had their education cut short and are being chucked out into the work market during the deepest recession ever. Surely if they can’t sit exams and prove themselves they should be given the benefit of doubt with some positive grades?

you wanted a deeper, longer, harder lockdown.  What do you think would happen?

[aintforever]

8 minutes ago, Batman said:

you wanted a deeper, longer, harder lockdown.  What do you think would happen?

You are just making stuff up, I think we should have locked down earlier and harder, that probably would have meant we came out much quicker meaning less of a hit to the economy.

As for exams, as soon as they decided not to sit and grades would be estimated there was obviously going to be grade inflation. I would have expected teachers to estimate and there be some sort of dialogue between the results people and the schools to end up with some reasonable grades based on the individuals performances. 

[Born In The 80s]

8 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Absolutely. 100%. It’s a scandal, but the most scandalous thing is that the so called Tory party went along with the dismantling of Grammar schools and the general dumbing down of university education. 

One of the things that I thought Teresa May got right was trying to promote Grammar schools again and I was disappointed that many of her own backbenchers didn't support her on the issue. I''m also very surprised that so many left-wing voters oppose so strongly to Grammar schools. Ultimately they're giving bright, potentially poverty-stricken children an opportunity that local comprehensives don't give them.

There's a lot of talk about BLM at the minute and why black kids aren't getting high profile jobs etc. The issue lies in education for me; the system and school curriculum are failing them. When you consider the opportunities given at private schools vs local comps, it's not surprising that predominantly white, privately-educated students are running companies in higher paid jobs, whilst black students (and working class white males) generally fill the minimum wage jobs etc. Grammar schools would give some/more of those poorer children a chance...

[rallyboy]

Cabinet minister proves to be clueless yes-man promoted well beyond his talents shock.

[Weston Super Saint]

14 hours ago, aintforever said:

The government is picking up the tab for the appeals that doesn’t mean they are free, it means the tax payer pays instead if the school.

 

That wasn't your point though was it? You called it a 'pointless, lengthy, expensive' process.

I've merely pointed out that it won't be expensive as it won't cost the appellant a penny and it won't be lengthy as the Government wants it concluded by the 7th of September.

Pointless on the other hand I agree with, as anyone who was serious about going to uni would have accepted one of the multitude of 'unconditional' offers that are on offer these days.  As for the others, so what if poor Jimmy or Sally don't get to go to Pontypool poly to spend three years studying mickey mouse films or doing advanced colouring in!

[aintforever]

3 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

That wasn't your point though was it? You called it a 'pointless, lengthy, expensive' process.

I've merely pointed out that it won't be expensive as it won't cost the appellant a penny and it won't be lengthy as the Government wants it concluded by the 7th of September.

Pointless on the other hand I agree with, as anyone who was serious about going to uni would have accepted one of the multitude of 'unconditional' offers that are on offer these days.  As for the others, so what if poor Jimmy or Sally don't get to go to Pontypool poly to spend three years studying mickey mouse films or doing advanced colouring in!

My point was that it casts money, takes time and is pointless. As they have ruled out any appeal meaning grades go down I expect they will get swamped so you can expect ‘what the government wants’ to be nowhere near what is achieved.

[Lord Duckhunter]

13 hours ago, Born In The 80s said:

One of the things that I thought Teresa May got right was trying to promote Grammar schools again and I was disappointed that many of her own backbenchers didn't support her on the issue. I''m also very surprised that so many left-wing voters oppose so strongly to Grammar schools. Ultimately they're giving bright, potentially poverty-stricken children an opportunity that local comprehensives don't give them.

There's a lot of talk about BLM at the minute and why black kids aren't getting high profile jobs etc. The issue lies in education for me; the system and school curriculum are failing them. When you consider the opportunities given at private schools vs local comps, it's not surprising that predominantly white, privately-educated students are running companies in higher paid jobs, whilst black students (and working class white males) generally fill the minimum wage jobs etc. Grammar schools would give some/more of those poorer children a chance...

Absolutely, 100%. 
 

Ive 4 kids, 2 went to Grammar 2 didn’t. The difference in education they got was like night and day. The Boys one had a lot of privileged kids whose parents had gone private prior to the entrance exam, but the girls school was full of poorer kids & a lot of girls with Asian backgrounds (far in excess of the local population %). The problem pre comprehensive wasn’t the Grammar schools, but the shitty education the majority who failed to get in got. They basically abolished the bit that was working, instead of the bit that wasn’t. Grammar schools aren’t for everyone, (my sister didn’t send my niece there despite her passing the entrance exam, and my lad would probably have been better off in the top stream of a comprehensive rather the bottom of a Grammar), but they should play a role in every area of the country, rather than a few isolated places. The Tories should be ashamed their not making the case for them, it’s a great tool for social mobility. Not only for poor kids, but middle class ones as well. 

[wadesmith]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Absolutely, 100%. 
 

Ive 4 kids, 2 went to Grammar 2 didn’t. The difference in education they got was like night and day. The Boys one had a lot of privileged kids whose parents had gone private prior to the entrance exam, but the girls school was full of poorer kids & a lot of girls with Asian backgrounds (far in excess of the local population %). The problem pre comprehensive wasn’t the Grammar schools, but the shitty education the majority who failed to get in got. They basically abolished the bit that was working, instead of the bit that wasn’t. Grammar schools aren’t for everyone, (my sister didn’t send my niece there despite her passing the entrance exam, and my lad would probably have been better off in the top stream of a comprehensive rather the bottom of a Grammar), but they should play a role in every area of the country, rather than a few isolated places. The Tories should be ashamed their not making the case for them, it’s a great tool for social mobility. Not only for poor kids, but middle class ones as well. 

What’s the significance of ‘A lot of girls with Asian backgrounds’?

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

My point was that it casts money, takes time and is pointless. 

Apparently you are stubbornly refusing to believe, or are too stupid to comprehend, that it will not cost money for the appellant.  It will not take much time, given that the Government has set a deadline of 7th September (3 weeks FFS!).

You are right in that it is pointless though.  The last 5+ years, every city has seen an enormous growth in the development of 'student accomodation'.  Every 'Uni' needs to fill that accomodation in order to make money - after all, that is their primary goal these days - so they will simply adjust the entrance requirements to keep the dosh rolling in.  No-one who wants to go to 'Uni' will miss out.

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Apparently you are stubbornly refusing to believe, or are too stupid to comprehend, that it will not cost money for the appellant.  It will not take much time, given that the Government has set a deadline of 7th September (3 weeks FFS!).

You are right in that it is pointless though.  The last 5+ years, every city has seen an enormous growth in the development of 'student accomodation'.  Every 'Uni' needs to fill that accomodation in order to make money - after all, that is their primary goal these days - so they will simply adjust the entrance requirements to keep the dosh rolling in.  No-one who wants to go to 'Uni' will miss out.

Fuck me this is painful. Surely an old gammon like yourself understands that wether paid for by the appellant or the tax payer, there is still a cost?

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, aintforever said:

Fuck me this is painful. Surely an old gammon like yourself understands that wether paid for by the appellant or the tax payer, there is still a cost?

Yes, hth.

However, what the fuck did you think was going to happen when they closed the schools and cancelled the exams?

I'll wager that the cost of administering the appeals process - that will last three whole weeks - is a fuck of a lot less than the money saved by not having to employ exam invigilators up and down the country, employing markers to mark the exam, couriers to ferry the exam papers around etc etc.

Didn't see you moaning about the cost to the taxpayer when you were calling for an earlier and harder lock down so where has your faux concern come from?

[aintforever]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Yes, hth.

However, what the fuck did you think was going to happen when they closed the schools and cancelled the exams?

I'll wager that the cost of administering the appeals process - that will last three whole weeks - is a fuck of a lot less than the money saved by not having to employ exam invigilators up and down the country, employing markers to mark the exam, couriers to ferry the exam papers around etc etc.

Didn't see you moaning about the cost to the taxpayer when you were calling for an earlier and harder lock down so where has your faux concern come from?

I assumed when they cancelled the exams they would have some sort of fair way of estimating the grades. Obviously as all estimates are just calculated guesswork they would have to mean higher grades than usual. It wouldn’t be fair on anyone to assume that they would do worse than expected like what has happened.

An earlier lockdown would probably have been more effective in stopping the spread and so shorter, it would have saved the tax payer money. 

 

[Plastic]

Fucked A-levels, fucked summer holidays, fucked Covid response and probable fucked GCSEs. Is there anything this bunch have got right? How’s brexit coming along? 

[Tamesaint]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

I assumed when they cancelled the exams they would have some sort of fair way of estimating the grades.

 

They only had 5 months to devise a fair way to estimate grades - clearly not long enough.

[Batman]

https://www.effiedeans.com/2020/08/the-broadcast-media-has-disgraced-itself.html

[The Cat]

They really could still have had the exams. Schools shut in March which was only 2 months before exams started so most kids would have already been reasonably prepared.

Provisions could have been put in place for schools to concentrate on continuing pretty much full time education for Years 11 & 13. Most could have been done remotely and then through small groups in schools for revision sessions just before exams which could have been staggered, different papers for different days. They could have been marked to take this into account. 

[Weston Super Saint]

8 minutes ago, The Cat said:

They really could still have had the exams. Schools shut in March which was only 2 months before exams started so most kids would have already been reasonably prepared.

Provisions could have been put in place for schools to concentrate on continuing pretty much full time education for Years 11 & 13. Most could have been done remotely and then through small groups in schools for revision sessions just before exams which could have been staggered, different papers for different days. They could have been marked to take this into account. 

I agree, all that 'could' have happened had it not been for the militant teachers and their militant teaching unions.  In fact, at one point, I seem to recall that is exactly what the Government were proposing until they met lots of resistance.

[Plastic]

16 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I agree, all that 'could' have happened had it not been for the militant teachers and their militant teaching unions.  In fact, at one point, I seem to recall that is exactly what the Government were proposing until they met lots of resistance.

Ah, now it’s the teacher’s fault. Poor old Gavin Williamson didn’t stand a chance. Such a fantastic politician too. Teachers should go away and shut up. 

[Wes Tender]

11 hours ago, Plastic said:

Fucked A-levels, fucked summer holidays, fucked Covid response and probable fucked GCSEs. Is there anything this bunch have got right? How’s brexit coming along? 

Brexit is coming along just fine. We're holding our nerve, telling the EU what is and what is not acceptable to us, and either the EU relents in their quest to keep us subjugated to their rules and laws as an associate member and agrees a FTA in our mutual interests, or we will go WTO. I don't mind either at this stage.

Regarding your first sentence, no doubt you would be perfectly capable (with the help of the leftie media's opinions), of listing all the things which needed to have been done to avoid these problems with the benefit of hindsight. Unfortunately crystal ball gazing isn't a reliable way of forecasting the outcome of a pandemic like this Chinese one. Nobody including scientists had a really clear idea of what its impact would be, as we had zero previous experience of a virus like this one to guide us.

And yes, the teacher's union are a bolshie lot of lefties who need to be faced down by the Government over their reluctance to allow their pupils to return to their proper schooling in September. The vast majority of parents polled favour that policy.

 

[Weston Super Saint]

56 minutes ago, Plastic said:

Ah, now it’s the teacher’s fault. Poor old Gavin Williamson didn’t stand a chance. Such a fantastic politician too. Teachers should go away and shut up. 

Certainly not all of them.  A lot did a great job keeping schools open.  A lot wanted a nice long extended holiday whilst being paid.

Go figure, some people are lazy, some aren't.

The unions didn't help.

The kids taking exams this year, 'could' have had the results they deserved if they were kept in schools.  I don't recall ANY teachers or teaching unions going on record and demanding that should have happened...

[aintforever]

33 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Certainly not all of them.  A lot did a great job keeping schools open.  A lot wanted a nice long extended holiday whilst being paid.

Go figure, some people are lazy, some aren't.

The unions didn't help.

The kids taking exams this year, 'could' have had the results they deserved if they were kept in schools.  I don't recall ANY teachers or teaching unions going on record and demanding that should have happened...

So you excuse the governments failures because "Nobody including scientists had a really clear idea of what its impact would be" yet you think schools should have been kept open during lockdown for the sake of some exam results when the R rate was through the roof, and teachers (some of them high-risk or with high-risk family) should have just risked their lives with the blessing of the Unions.

[Wes Tender]

6 minutes ago, aintforever said:

So you excuse the governments failures because "Nobody including scientists had a really clear idea of what its impact would be" yet you think schools should have been kept open during lockdown for the sake of some exam results when the R rate was through the roof, and teachers (some of them high-risk or with high-risk family) should have just risked their lives with the blessing of the Unions.

You appear to be confused. It was me, not WSS  who said that the "Nobody including scientists had a really clear idea of what its impact would be", so you can't use that as an attempt to infer that WSS has contradicted himself over his opinion on whether the teachers should have gone back earlier.

My position on that, is that when it became clear fairly early on that children were at very low risk of suffering severe effects from the Chinese virus, that was the time that the return to school should have been implemented, possibly with a week on, week off staggering of classes first. But then the bolshie leftie teachers union would have been far less amenable to that than they are to having them go back to school in September.

[aintforever]

24 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

You appear to be confused. It was me, not WSS  who said that the "Nobody including scientists had a really clear idea of what its impact would be", so you can't use that as an attempt to infer that WSS has contradicted himself over his opinion on whether the teachers should have gone back earlier.

My position on that, is that when it became clear fairly early on that children were at very low risk of suffering severe effects from the Chinese virus, that was the time that the return to school should have been implemented, possibly with a week on, week off staggering of classes first. But then the bolshie leftie teachers union would have been far less amenable to that than they are to having them go back to school in September.

I think the decision wether to hold exams or not probably had to be made long before the science became clearer about how much kids can spread the virus. We knew quite early on that they were not as seriously infected but it's the transmission to family member and staff that is important. 

[sadoldgit]

Chinese virus? Are we going to start identifying diseases as we do humans now? You sound like Donald Trump.

[Wes Tender]

40 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I think the decision wether to hold exams or not probably had to be made long before the science became clearer about how much kids can spread the virus. We knew quite early on that they were not as seriously infected but it's the transmission to family member and staff that is important. 

The decision to have continued schooling as early as possible is directly related to the ability of pupils to have been able to have sat their exams on the basis that they had not missed much direct teaching as a result of the virus. As you say, the scientific consensus regarding the affect of the virus on youngsters was known fairly early on, but the teachers unions wouldn't have been any more acquiescent towards schools reopening any earlier, than they would have been towards some system having been put in place to arrange for the sitting of exams. Thankfully Labour have finally come off the fence and agreed that schools should fully reopen in September, so the traditional union backing party has taken away that support from the teacher's union stance.

[Wes Tender]

38 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Chinese virus? Are we going to start identifying diseases as we do humans now? You sound like Donald Trump.

I identify the disease by the country of origin. If you prefer, I will name it after the part of that country where it began, Wuhan. If that upsets your sensitive leftie Guardian mindset, then tough. Do you disagree that it originated there in China? If so, you sound like Xi Jinping

[aintforever]

39 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

The decision to have continued schooling as early as possible is directly related to the ability of pupils to have been able to have sat their exams on the basis that they had not missed much direct teaching as a result of the virus. As you say, the scientific consensus regarding the affect of the virus on youngsters was known fairly early on, but the teachers unions wouldn't have been any more acquiescent towards schools reopening any earlier, than they would have been towards some system having been put in place to arrange for the sitting of exams. Thankfully Labour have finally come off the fence and agreed that schools should fully reopen in September, so the traditional union backing party has taken away that support from the teacher's union stance.

I'm still not sure how you think schools could have been kept open when back, even in mid May when exams were due too start the science surrounding transmission in children was not clear? 

Also anyone sitting GCSE's and A levels are at an age where it appears transmission is the same as adults, how does it make sense to have these people going to school at a time when we were all told to not even venture outside the front door?

Edited 17 August, 2020 by aintforever

[Weston Super Saint]

7 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I'm still not sure how you think schools could have been kept open when back, even in mid May when exams were due too start the science surrounding transmission in children was not clear? 

Also anyone sitting GCSE's and A levels are at an age where it appears transmission is the same as adults, how does it make sense to have these people going to school at a time when we were all told to not even venture outside the front door?

'Transmission' is the same whatever age group, given that nearly every person on the planet is able to breathe and touch things!

Not really sure what your point is...

Here is an article from early May which explains that children are less susceptible to the symptoms, many of whom are asymptomatic.  All they had to do was delay the exams for a month or two, not sure why it's set in stone that they absolutely have to be done in May / June!

https://coronavirusexplained.ukri.org/en/article/und0008/

[aintforever]

24 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

'Transmission' is the same whatever age group, given that nearly every person on the planet is able to breathe and touch things!

 

"although early indications suggest that there is less transmission from children than adults."

 

 

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Wes Tender said:

I identify the disease by the country of origin. If you prefer, I will name it after the part of that country where it began, Wuhan. If that upsets your sensitive leftie Guardian mindset, then tough. Do you disagree that it originated there in China? If so, you sound like Xi Jinping

I hope you don't try to do this as a matter of course; Spanish Flu didn't start in Spain, and German Measles isn't German in origin.

[The Cat]

7 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

I identify the disease by the country of origin. If you prefer, I will name it after the part of that country where it began, Wuhan. If that upsets your sensitive leftie Guardian mindset, then tough. Do you disagree that it originated there in China? If so, you sound like Xi Jinping

Do you call mumps the Greek disease, or chicken pox the Persian virus? Foot and Mouth was first discovered in the US, so presumably you were banging on about the American disease to your friends when the outbreak occured here a while back.

You know it's only 5 letters to type Covid but 13 to type it your way. Think of all that time you could be saving.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Chinese virus? Are we going to start identifying diseases as we do humans now? You sound like Donald Trump.

Start?

Spanish flu

German measles

Ebola 

Middle East respiratory syndrome 

Hong Kong flu

Lyme disease 

Guinea worm 

Norovirus 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Start?

Spanish flu

German measles

 

As stated above, neither name is Geographically accurate. "Spanish flu" was first detected in the USA, "German measles" was identfied as a seperate strain of Rubella by Geman researchers but was already a globally widespread disease.

[shurlock]

39 minutes ago, aintforever said:

"although early indications suggest that there is less transmission from children than adults."

 

 

A widely cited South Korean study suggests differences across age groups - in particular the importance of distinguishing between younger and older children. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/health/coronavirus-children-schools.html

Surprise, surprise we're learning new things about the virus everyday and even then the evidence base is far from conclusive and settled.