Things That are Racist

[aintforever]

52 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Because is you bothered to read the thread rather than jumping on any chance to scream racism you’ll see that the discussion is about what barriers do working class black kids have compared to White kids. As you have proven by pointing out judging by their names isn’t a barrier as many many black and white kids have similar names. Hence why I gave the example of 3 black footballers who you’d have no idea what colour they were just from their name. Come on, keep up!

So the fact that some black kids have English sounding names is proof that racism doesn’t exist. Brilliant

 

[Turkish]

11 minutes ago, aintforever said:

So the fact that some black kids have English sounding names is proof that racism doesn’t exist. Brilliant

 

Are you suggesting black kids aren't English then? See this making things up is easy isn't it.

Its incorrect that peoples names is evidence that black kids have more barriers to cross than white kids, because these days plenty of working class black and white kids you could not distinguish their skin colour just from their name, so you've scored another own goal with that post claiming it proves it as you desperately trying to point out racism again. Not the quickest of cats are we.

Edited 17 December, 2020 by Turkish

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 minutes ago, aintforever said:

So the fact that some black kids have English sounding names is proof that racism doesn’t exist. Brilliant

 

What a load of racist pony. Your unconscious bias and prejudice equates them with being English names. Most people would just think they’re names , and wont assume their ethnicity. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

I’ve been interviewing and employing people for nearly 30 years and I’ve never judged one of them by their name. I’ve had black blokes walk in the room, black chicks, Muslims, Chinese, Eastern European’s, all sorts and unlike Aintforever I have never decided their ethnicity or race by their name before I met them . Only once have I been shocked when introduced to the candidate and misjudged them by their name. When I was expecting a bird, and a 6ft 2 “ jock walked in wearing a dress.  Unfortunately, he was unsuccessful.....

Edited 17 December, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter

[aintforever]

18 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What a load of racist pony. Your unconscious bias and prejudice equates them with being English names. Most people would just think they’re names , and wont assume their ethnicity. 

You must be thick as fuck if you don’t think some names have an ethnic background. But then again you don’t even understand basic climate science so I’m not surprised.

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, aintforever said:

You must be thick as fuck if you don’t think some names have an ethnic background. But then again you don’t even understand basic climate science so I’m not surprised.

What was the name of the non white person you chose not to stick up for when you had the chance to quash racism in your workplace? 

[aintforever]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

What was the name of the non white person you chose not to stick up for when you had the chance to quash racism in your workplace? 

I dunno, they didn’t even get an interview.

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I dunno, they didn’t even get an interview.

That’s not true is it. You told us a while back that you had the chance to pull your boss up on racism but decided that might damage your career. So despite your scrambling around on here it doesn’t really matter that much to you. You see unlike you I don’t need to make things up. 

Edited 17 December, 2020 by Turkish

[aintforever]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

That’s not true is it. You told us a while back that you had the chance to pull your boss up on racism but decided that might damage your career. So despite your scrambling around on here it doesn’t really matter that much to you. 

It is true, my boss said he didn’t hire Asians because they had a chip on their shoulder, hence I wouldn’t know the names of the people who didn’t get a look in. 

I was in my first real job just out of Uni and wasn’t really in a position to ‘pull him up’ on anything. And yes at the time it didn’t really matter to me, my priorities then we’re 1. going out and getting laid. 2. watching football with my mates and 3. earning as much money as I can to do more of 1 and 2. 

 

[Lighthouse]

4 hours ago, aintforever said:

Er.. racism.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46927417

Now you see, THAT is the kind of issue I can get onboard with. There’s clearly a genuine issue in some places which we collectively need to address. That doesn’t just mean finger pointing and saying, "these companies are racist!" If there’s a reoccurring issue of ‘men from country X or region Y are more often rude to customers’ then that needs to be addressed in an open forum, without fear of persecution.

 

Instead we’ve got the media droning on about hashtags, kneeling and someone calling a black man, "the black man."

[Fan The Flames]

8 hours ago, Manuel said:

It certainly goes against the current trend of movies, taking a lot of effort to ensure the actor looks as much like the part as possible.  Tom Hardy in the Crays for example.  David Tennant as Neilson.  Many more examples out there.  Either accuracy of appearance matters or it doesn't.  

edit - and that Guardian article is just horrible, assuming anyone who may have an opinion on it are "racists".  A good example of why I used to read that paper but haven't for a long time.  

The author said that racists are losing their heads over it, which is a different thing to 'if you disagree you are a racist'.

[hypochondriac]

3 hours ago, aintforever said:

So the fact that some black kids have English sounding names is proof that racism doesn’t exist. Brilliant

 

From memory when these sort of things have come up in the past, the aversion was that people react negatively to both unfamiliar names but also names with negative connotations which had nothing to do with race. So shanice, dwayne, candice, cortnee etc also had similar issues. 

Edited 17 December, 2020 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

Now you see, THAT is the kind of issue I can get onboard with. There’s clearly a genuine issue in some places which we collectively need to address. That doesn’t just mean finger pointing and saying, "these companies are racist!" If there’s a reoccurring issue of ‘men from country X or region Y are more often rude to customers’ then that needs to be addressed in an open forum, without fear of persecution.

 

Instead we’ve got the media droning on about hashtags, kneeling and someone calling a black man, "the black man."

There's obviously a psychological thing where people are drawn to names of candidates that sound more like them. The question though is whether the issue is purely because these people are a different race or if there are other factors at play. I'd happily remove names from cvs if people think that sort of thing would help. I can happily say I've employed tons of people from different ethnicities and if anything I've found Eastern European women and Muslim women to be some of the hardest working and friendly people so I'd probably look more kindly on them than some of the entitled young people who you could refer to as ethnically English. 

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

From memory when these sort of things have come up in the past, the aversion was that people react negatively to both unfamiliar names but also names with negative connotations which had nothing to do with race. So shanice, dwayne, candice etc also had similar issues. 

It’s also mentions some of the jobs as being accountants and software engineers.   There are a disproportionately high amount of Asian accountants and software engineers compared to the percentage of the population so I fail to believe a qualified account wouldn’t get an interview for an accountancy job just because they have what some might consider a non white name. 

[Lighthouse]

14 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

There's obviously a psychological thing where people are drawn to names of candidates that sound more like them. The question though is whether the issue is purely because these people are a different race or if there are other factors at play. I'd happily remove names from cvs if people think that sort of thing would help. I can happily say I've employed tons of people from different ethnicities and if anything I've found Eastern European women and Muslim women to be some of the hardest working and friendly people so I'd probably look more kindly on them than some of the entitled young people who you could refer to as ethnically English. 

I've long thought this and yet it doesn't seem to be a thing anywhere. It can't be a difficult software process to simply hide the names and email addresses of an application before it's passed on to HR.

[hypochondriac]

43 minutes ago, Turkish said:

It’s also mentions some of the jobs as being accountants and software engineers.   There are a disproportionately high amount of Asian accountants and software engineers compared to the percentage of the population so I fail to believe a qualified account wouldn’t get an interview for an accountancy job just because they have what some might consider a non white name. 

Indeed. Plus Mohamed not getting interviews I would suggest implies an aversion to that name and the negative connotations it has with regards to Islam rather than any particular commentary on racism. How could they possibly know the person was black beforehand? 

[hypochondriac]

"Dr Zubaida Haque, the deputy director of the race equality think tank Runnymede Trust, said the research was the "most conclusive evidence that overt racial discrimination still exists".

"Nowadays a lot of the conversation is about unconscious bias, but this shows that no matter your degree or education, you are still perceived and treated by the colour of your skin, religion and ethnicity, and not by what you can do," she told the BBC."

 

How do the results from that survey show what this woman claims? Serious question because it sounds like she's started with her conclusions and then pretended that this survey shows that when it clearly shows nothing of the sort. The only way to test if it was the name that was preventing applications would be to send two identical CVs with the names changed on them and even then all it would show is that employers don't like strange names that they haven't encountered before. If you sent identical CVs out without a name and just a photo you may have a point but even then it could be someone who has a negative reaction to the way someone looks. 

But yes let's pretend that it's really because everyone is secretly racist. The vast majority of employers I've seen will employ anyone as long as they are competent and don't cause trouble. 

[skintsaint]

Driverless cars : 

https://drivetribe.com/p/are-driverless-cars-racist-dwqX71-yQf2fdXzCfE79lQ?iid=X-jYq9WNQmC9vbg2olOnOg

 

 

Edited 18 December, 2020 by skintsaint

[Turkish]

6 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

"Dr Zubaida Haque, the deputy director of the race equality think tank Runnymede Trust, said the research was the "most conclusive evidence that overt racial discrimination still exists".

"Nowadays a lot of the conversation is about unconscious bias, but this shows that no matter your degree or education, you are still perceived and treated by the colour of your skin, religion and ethnicity, and not by what you can do," she told the BBC."

 

How do the results from that survey show what this woman claims? Serious question because it sounds like she's started with her conclusions and then pretended that this survey shows that when it clearly shows nothing of the sort. The only way to test if it was the name that was preventing applications would be to send two identical CVs with the names changed on them and even then all it would show is that employers don't like strange names that they haven't encountered before. If you sent identical CVs out without a name and just a photo you may have a point but even then it could be someone who has a negative reaction to the way someone looks. 

But yes let's pretend that it's really because everyone is secretly racist. The vast majority of employers I've seen will employ anyone as long as they are competent and don't cause trouble. 

It’s seems Dr Haque didn’t have a problem getting an interview for his job despite having a name some would think would Make him non white 

[Turkish]

Coronavirus 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2020/05/19/coronavirus-racist-fattist-sexist-says-health-minister-12727838/amp/

[hypochondriac]

18 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Coronavirus 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2020/05/19/coronavirus-racist-fattist-sexist-says-health-minister-12727838/amp/

If you look at covid under a microscope, there's little Tommy Robinson heads stuck on the protein spikes doing a sieg heil. 

[Sheaf Saint]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55360210

Players are "overwhelmingly in support" of continuing to take a knee to highlight racial inequality and fight discrimination, says the Professional Footballers' Association.

The players' union consulted members on whether they wanted to continue the gesture after some fans booed it.

Members were asked whether an alternative should explored, but they wanted to continue with "this act of solidarity" before kick-off.

"The results were clear," said the PFA.

"Players overwhelmingly support continuing this act of solidarity despite any adverse responses that may be received."

[skintsaint]

is fattist a thing now as well? 😄

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55360210

Players are "overwhelmingly in support" of continuing to take a knee to highlight racial inequality and fight discrimination, says the Professional Footballers' Association.

The players' union consulted members on whether they wanted to continue the gesture after some fans booed it.

Members were asked whether an alternative should explored, but they wanted to continue with "this act of solidarity" before kick-off.

"The results were clear," said the PFA.

"Players overwhelmingly support continuing this act of solidarity despite any adverse responses that may be received."

They exist in a unique and super privileged bubble. most know no life outside football and for the most part are not educated.  No doubt they have good intentions, but are ill advised to support BLM, there is no separation from taking the knee and the extremist BLM movement. 

Edited 18 December, 2020 by Toussaint

[SaintMB]

Yawn. 

[manzo]

Well, I, for one, am particularly enjoying a bunch of white blokes decide what is and isn't racist.

 

Good work, everyone, if you could now sort out poverty, it'd be much appreciated.

[aintforever]

6 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55360210

Players are "overwhelmingly in support" of continuing to take a knee to highlight racial inequality and fight discrimination, says the Professional Footballers' Association.

The players' union consulted members on whether they wanted to continue the gesture after some fans booed it.

Members were asked whether an alternative should explored, but they wanted to continue with "this act of solidarity" before kick-off.

"The results were clear," said the PFA.

"Players overwhelmingly support continuing this act of solidarity despite any adverse responses that may be received."

Great news. The more it gets up the nose of the racists the better.

[East Kent Saint]

BLM wasn't mentioned in their statement just they were against racial inequality and discrimination .

Apparently Dominic Cummings said that in his experience of them , Conservative MPs did not care about poor people or the NHS.  So sorting out poverty may take some time , the fact that children in the UK qualify for aid by the UN says it all .

A lot of people who are applying for Universal Credit for the first time are finding out just how you get treated when you fall to the bottom of the pile through no fault of your own.

 

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

Great news. The more it gets up the nose of the racists the better.

That’s exactly the kind of attitude which makes me think people don’t really want harmony and equality. If your attitude is to try and upset racists as much as possible, how on Earth can you expect to change their attitudes? 

[aintforever]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

That’s exactly the kind of attitude which makes me think people don’t really want harmony and equality. If your attitude is to try and upset racists as much as possible, how on Earth can you expect to change their attitudes? 

Maybe it will take that to help get the message across. Putting on a Kick-it-out T-shirt before kick-off one game a season is not exactly going change anything is it?

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Maybe it will take that to help get the message across. Putting on a Kick-it-out T-shirt before kick-off one game a season is not exactly going change anything is it?

So assuming that logic; how many more years of Lord duck and Weston calling and lefty, pinko, snowflake, woke remainer will it for you to agree that Brexit is a fantastic idea and you were wrong all along?

[rooney]

5 hours ago, Toussaint said:

They exist in a unique and super privileged bubble. most know no life outside football and for the most part are not educated.  No doubt they have good intentions, but are ill advised to support BLM, there is no separation from taking the knee and the extremist BLM movement. 

 

13 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Great news. The more it gets up the nose of the racists the better.

 

6 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55360210

Players are "overwhelmingly in support" of continuing to take a knee to highlight racial inequality and fight discrimination, says the Professional Footballers' Association.

That is probably not too surprising as judging by the games I see on TV, the majority of the players are black, although I have no statistics to prove or disprove this. 

 

[aintforever]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

So assuming that logic; how many more years of Lord duck and Weston calling and lefty, pinko, snowflake, woke remainer will it for you to agree that Brexit is a fantastic idea and you were wrong all along?

The players are not calling anyone names, just making an anti-racism gesture. Not really the same thing.

[aintforever]

5 hours ago, Toussaint said:

They exist in a unique and super privileged bubble. most know no life outside football and for the most part are not educated.  No doubt they have good intentions, but are ill advised to support BLM, there is no separation from taking the knee and the extremist BLM movement. 

From the FA: "To be clear, we do not see taking the knee as a political symbol, and would contend that there can now be no doubt as to what the gesture means in a footballing context,"

It's almost like you are looking for reasons to appose it.

[Turkish]

20 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Great news. The more it gets up the nose of the racists the better.

What would really get a racists nose if if some young lad just out of uni pulled them up for blatant racism in public. But i guess you dont know anyone that cares enough to do that. Lets applauded other people making token gestures instead.

[hypochondriac]

27 minutes ago, aintforever said:

The players are not calling anyone names, just making an anti-racism gesture. Not really the same thing.

So to deliberately exagerrate to make a point- what if all the players decided to do a nazi salute to tackle racism? I mean it's been associated with bad things in the past and many people find the gesture controversial but what if they decided they had coopted the gesture and everyone now knows what it means? Would it then be acceptable to not be supportive of the gesture? 

[Lighthouse]

32 minutes ago, aintforever said:

The players are not calling anyone names, just making an anti-racism gesture. Not really the same thing.

You're ignoring the point, I wasn't talking about the players. You willingly made the statement that you're glad to see confrontation because you like seeing racists being upset. I would suggest that's not a very strong moral position and is contrary to wanting to fight any form of discrimination.

To repeat the question above, how much longer until you agree with Duck and Wes that Brexit is an excellent idea?

[aintforever]

27 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

You're ignoring the point, I wasn't talking about the players. You willingly made the statement that you're glad to see confrontation because you like seeing racists being upset. I would suggest that's not a very strong moral position and is contrary to wanting to fight any form of discrimination.

To repeat the question above, how much longer until you agree with Duck and Wes that Brexit is an excellent idea?

My point is that if players taking the knee irritates racist fans at least it is getting a response and maybe make them think a bit unlike the players wearing a kick it out T-shirt once a season.

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

What would really get a racists nose if if some young lad just out of uni pulled them up for blatant racism in public. But i guess you dont know anyone that cares enough to do that. Lets applauded other people making token gestures instead.

 bless

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

Maybe it will take that to help get the message across. Putting on a Kick-it-out T-shirt before kick-off one game a season is not exactly going change anything is it?

Nor is taking the knee going to change anything.  A bunch of privileged millionaires toeing the football establishments line. What’s it going to cost them, nothing, not a bloody thing. Football and the players will go to Qatar, and hide the rainbow stuff in Muslim countries. 
 

Willie Nelson once toured with Charley Pride and had received death threats from the KKK and told not to come down south. What did Willie do? He came on stage and gave Charley a great big kiss at the start of the show. That’s brave, that’s a statement, not taking your knee with everyone else in an empty stadium. Marcus Rashford is a leftie hero, let’s see him do a Rodney Marsh and plant a smacker on a whiteys lips during the Qatar World Cup. Let’s see how Man Utd’s & premier leagues commercial teams deal with the fall out from that. 

[hypochondriac]

17 minutes ago, aintforever said:

My point is that if players taking the knee irritates racist fans at least it is getting a response and maybe make them think a bit unlike the players wearing a kick it out T-shirt once a season.

What does "making them think" going to achieve? All it's going to do is further entrench opinion. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Nor is taking the knee going to change anything.  A bunch of privileged millionaires toeing the football establishments line. What’s it going to cost them, nothing, not a bloody thing. Football and the players will go to Qatar, and hide the rainbow stuff in Muslim countries. 
 

Willie Nelson once toured with Charley Pride and had received death threats from the KKK and told not to come down south. What did Willie do? He came on stage and gave Charley a great big kiss at the start of the show. That’s brave, that’s a statement, not taking your knee with everyone else in an empty stadium. Marcus Rashford is a leftie hero, let’s see him do a Rodney Marsh and plant a smacker on a whiteys lips during the Qatar World Cup. Let’s see how Man Utd’s & premier leagues commercial teams deal with the fall out from that. 

I'd have more respect if Kane travelled to Qatar and then just before the kick off started to fellate Dier in the centre circle whilst Eric had his fist in the air. That would be a powerful statement for sure. 

[Alanh]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

What does "making them think" going to achieve? All it's going to do is further entrench opinion. 

Surely one of the points of any gesture whether it is one of love, provocation or solidarity is to get recognition i.e.  to make someone think about an issue or situation that they may not have considered before.  Players taking a knee has obviously raised the profile of anti racism as it's being discussed at length in many arenas.  As a gesture it won't achieve the end result of converting all racists into equal rights advocates, that will happen through a combination of societal pressure, education and time, but if it makes society in general a bit more aware of the issue and that results in a bit less racism then it has done it's job.

[hypochondriac]

In fact let's get the whole England team involved. Ten minutes into the first game let's get them all with their kit off reenacting this scene from South Park. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Alanh said:

Surely one of the points of any gesture whether it is one of love, provocation or solidarity is to get recognition i.e.  to make someone think about an issue or situation that they may not have considered before.  Players taking a knee has obviously raised the profile of anti racism as it's being discussed at length in many arenas.  As a gesture it won't achieve the end result of converting all racists into equal rights advocates, that will happen through a combination of societal pressure, education and time, but if it makes society in general a bit more aware of the issue and that results in a bit less racism then it has done it's job.

I disagree. I think it's raised the profile of this form of activism and I think it's been viewed incredibly negatively by a significant percentage of fans. I don't think it's furthered any anti racism agenda (and as I pointed out, polls showed that people felt these protests had had an overall negative effect on racial relations so you could argue its actually made things worse.) 

You accept surely that not everyone who objects to the taking of the knee is a "racist?" The point is that this isn't going to result in a "bit less racism" it's going to increase tensions and probably lead to more racist attitudes in the future. 

[aintforever]

25 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

What does "making them think" going to achieve? All it's going to do is further entrench opinion. 

For some it might, but you would like to think that for some supporters seeing their heros make the gesture week in week out might make them think that racist behaviour is for wankers. Even if it has a tiny effect there is no harm in it, unless you are one of these people terrified of a Marxist takeover.

[saintquin]

28 minutes ago, aintforever said:

My point is that if players taking the knee irritates racist fans at least it is getting a response and maybe make them think a bit unlike the players wearing a kick it out T-shirt once a season.

I personally don't think any racist are going change their mind about being racist just because players are kneeling before a match or do anything else for that matter.

 In my mind educating the young at the earliest age possible may work but, if the children's parents are racist it would still be a very difficult thing to do.

Racism is not a football problem but a society problem. There is no harm in football trying to help. I'm just not sure it can do much other than making sure it doesn't exist in it's own organisation!

[Ted Bates Statue]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

So to deliberately exagerrate to make a point- what if all the players decided to do a nazi salute to tackle racism? I mean it's been associated with bad things in the past and many people find the gesture controversial but what if they decided they had coopted the gesture and everyone now knows what it means? Would it then be acceptable to not be supportive of the gesture? 

The Hindus still use the swastika without controversy, so, yeah I guess people can get their head around it. 

[hypochondriac]

10 minutes ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

The Hindus still use the swastika without controversy, so, yeah I guess people can get their head around it. 

What if they combined it with a goose step? Are you a racist if you disagree? 

[hypochondriac]

16 minutes ago, aintforever said:

For some it might, but you would like to think that for some supporters seeing their heros make the gesture week in week out might make them think that racist behaviour is for wankers. Even if it has a tiny effect there is no harm in it, unless you are one of these people terrified of a Marxist takeover.

But they don't view opposing the taking of the knee as racist behaviour which is the entire point. There's some evidence to suggest that it has had a negative effect so actually there could be some harm in it.