Climate Change

[Weston Super Saint]

54 minutes ago, buctootim said:

There is far more money to be made from accepting cash from Shell, Exxon and the other parts of oil and gas than mediocre government research grants.  

It's not in any doubt.

No idea what the fuck that's got to do with Thatcher though.

I've stated before that ALL climate scientists have an agenda, you just need to follow the money to find out which one it is.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

Of course some scientists have incentives to exaggerate - it's the same for both sides. My point is that it doesn't change the fundamental problem. 

There are way more incentives on the denier side to lie -as we have seen.

First climate change 'wasn't happening - it was a socialist hoax'.

Then it 'was happening but it's just natural causes'.

Then it is 'caused by man but not by much (or we don't know how much)'.

Now it's changing to 'we are causing it but it might be a good thing anyway.'

 Weird how it's the same people that change their story each time, those who have a problem with paying tax.

Wow.  That's a fabulous point. No wonder you used a picture and quote from Thatcher to tell us it.

[Fan The Flames]

2 hours ago, east-stand-nic said:

I tried telling people during covid and many other times, the science they get shoved down their throats comes from government back scientists and funded research. Speak out against it, you get pushed away made out an alcoholic or similar, discredited and unfunded. Of course the masses will not see this as it scares them to think they have been lied to all their lives. Yet they happily call the tories liars. You couldn't make it up.

What was the end game for these governments that lied to us, we are a couple of years on surely their dastardly plans are coming to fruition.

[Whitey Grandad]

When Thatcher said “What we are doing now…” did she mean her government?

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

When Thatcher said “What we are doing now…” did she mean her government?

She meant society, there was an increase in green politics during Thatchers time, so she saw some political capital in appealing to the greens. I don't believe she was ever that committed.

[Whitey Grandad]

6 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

She meant society, there was an increase in green politics during Thatchers time, so she saw some political capital in appealing to the greens. I don't believe she was ever that committed.

Of course she did but I don’t think she included herself amongst the ‘we’.

[buctootim]

40 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Of course she did but I don’t think she included herself amongst the ‘we’.

You think she was one of the Lizard people? east-stand-nic can probably get onboard with that.  

[whelk]

6 hours ago, buctootim said:

You think she was one of the Lizard people? east-stand-nic can probably get onboard with that.  

And I am sure LD regularly knocks one out thinking about her

[buctootim]

This is interesting / scary. The reduction in air pollution may have increased the rate od climate change. No idea if true. 

 

https://x.com/LeonSimons8/status/1710571556324118962?s=20

[Sheaf Saint]

Q&A: Warming of 2C would trigger ‘catastrophic’ loss of world’s ice, new report says - Carbon Brief

Global warming of 2C would see “extensive, long-term [and] essentially irreversible” losses from the Earth’s ice sheets and glaciers, warns a new report.

It would also lead to polar oceans that are “ice-free” in summer and suffering “essentially permanent corrosive ocean acidification”, the report says.

The 2023 “state of the cryosphere” report from the International Cryosphere Climate Initiative (ICCI) lays out the impacts on Earth’s frozen land and seas from sustained warming at 2C and the “catastrophic global damage” that would result.

These impacts would include “potentially rapid, irreversible sea level rise from the Earth’s ice sheets”, the report says, with a “compelling number of new studies” all pointing to thresholds of sustained ice loss for both Greenland and parts of Antarctica at well-below 2C.

This would commit the world to “between 12 and 20 metres” of sea level rise “if 2C becomes the new constant”.

[AlexLaw76]

Not that long ago we would all be underwater, or the ozone was going to fizzle out, or any other of the many doom-mongering predictions that have never been close to the truth

[Weston Super Saint]

6 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Not that long ago we would all be underwater, or the ozone was going to fizzle out, or any other of the many doom-mongering predictions that have never been close to the truth

Once upon a time the Earth was a molten ball.  Arrogant humans increasing the temperature (combined with natural temperature increases) of the Earth is not going to make any difference whatsoever to the planet.  The only thing that humans are interested in is self preservation.  The Earth doesn't give a fuck about us and will adapt accordingly to whatever the temperature is, it'll just be another phase in the planet's very long history!

If some people want to make their lives miserable because they think they will make the slightest bit of difference then more fool them!

 

[Sheaf Saint]

8 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Not that long ago we would all be underwater, or the ozone was going to fizzle out, or any other of the many doom-mongering predictions that have never been close to the truth

You do realise that this problem was solved because the international community recognised the danger and worked together to do something about it, right?

[Lighthouse]

8 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Once upon a time the Earth was a molten ball.  Arrogant humans increasing the temperature (combined with natural temperature increases) of the Earth is not going to make any difference whatsoever to the planet.  The only thing that humans are interested in is self preservation.  The Earth doesn't give a fuck about us and will adapt accordingly to whatever the temperature is, it'll just be another phase in the planet's very long history!

If some people want to make their lives miserable because they think they will make the slightest bit of difference then more fool them!

 

You do realise you’re comparing stuff which may happen over the next 10,000 years being brought forward to being a problem within the next 50 years? You don’t think there’s any point in trying create a sustainable planet for people who have literally already been born now, because it’s probably going to go to sh*t in the year 12,100 anyway?

 

14 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

You do realise that this problem was solved because the international community recognised the danger and worked together to do something about it, right?

I wouldn’t get your hopes up.

[Weston Super Saint]

4 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

You do realise you’re comparing stuff which may happen over the next 10,000 years being brought forward to being a problem within the next 50 years? You don’t think there’s any point in trying create a sustainable planet for people who have literally already been born now, because it’s probably going to go to sh*t in the year 12,100 anyway?

What's the plan for this sustainable planet you mention?

What's the solution?

[whelk]

Transister radios as incentives to not have kids

[trousers]

What if the extinction of the human race is critical to the survival of the planet...?

[Weston Super Saint]

29 minutes ago, trousers said:

What if the extinction of the human race is critical to the survival of the planet...?

I'd probably go with a 'by product' rather than critical.

[AlexLaw76]

58 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

You do realise that this problem was solved because the international community recognised the danger and worked together to do something about it, right?

Ok, the rest of all the incredible predictions, that we’re definitely going to happen….

[Sheaf Saint]

32 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Ok, the rest of all the incredible predictions, that we’re definitely going to happen….

Such as?

[Fan The Flames]

34 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Ok, the rest of all the incredible predictions, that we’re definitely going to happen….

You'll thank us when we save you.

Weston will be along in a minute to point out your typo.

[hypochondriac]

The thing is though, China and India are doing nothing about their emissions and it's a virtually impossible task to make them which makes it basically irrelevant what we do. I can have no meaningful effect on the planet so it's not worth working myself up about just like I won't be worrying about the prospect of being nuked- nothing I can do to change it. 

I just wish politicians wouldn't be working to actively make the average brit colder, poorer and more uncomfortable. Possibly for the first time in 150 years quality of life is going down because of this stupidity. 

[Sheaf Saint]

20 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

The thing is though, China and India are doing nothing about their emissions 

This is simply untrue. 

https://www.iea.org/reports/an-energy-sector-roadmap-to-carbon-neutrality-in-china

https://www.iea.org/commentaries/india-s-clean-energy-transition-is-rapidly-underway-benefiting-the-entire-world

 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

This is simply untrue. 

https://www.iea.org/reports/an-energy-sector-roadmap-to-carbon-neutrality-in-china

https://www.iea.org/commentaries/india-s-clean-energy-transition-is-rapidly-underway-benefiting-the-entire-world

 

Your info is out of date. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/29/china-coal-plants-climate-goals-carbon

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-22/india-plans-to-keep-adding-coal-power-capacity-as-demand-surges

 

https://www.power-technology.com/news/india-increases-coal-power-output-as-dry-hot-weather-continues/?cf-view

Edited 21 November, 2023 by hypochondriac

[aintforever]

31 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Your info is out of date. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/29/china-coal-plants-climate-goals-carbon

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-22/india-plans-to-keep-adding-coal-power-capacity-as-demand-surges

 

https://www.power-technology.com/news/india-increases-coal-power-output-as-dry-hot-weather-continues/?cf-view

They are not doing enough but it’s still not correct to say are doing nothing about their emissions, their emissions would be higher if they were not investing in renewables.

Our attempt at combating climate change is going pathetically badly, you get the feeling millions are going to have to die before any meaningful action is taken. Still think it’s right that developed countries lead the way because change has to happen at some point.

[hypochondriac]

13 minutes ago, aintforever said:

They are not doing enough but it’s still not correct to say are doing nothing about their emissions, their emissions would be higher if they were not investing in renewables.

Our attempt at combating climate change is going pathetically badly, you get the feeling millions are going to have to die before any meaningful action is taken. Still think it’s right that developed countries lead the way because change has to happen at some point.

China is opening loads more coal powered power stations at a rate faster than any other country in the world. You're right that's not doing nothing, it's doing the opposite. 

"leading the way" by making everyone in the UK poorer, more miserable, less prosperous and their lives harder all in the name of combating something they have zero control over abd which will make no difference to the outcome. I'd laugh baiut it except its serious because it's having a detrimental impact on my family's life. 

[Sheaf Saint]

54 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

China is opening loads more coal powered power stations at a rate faster than any other country in the world. You're right that's not doing nothing, it's doing the opposite. 

"leading the way" by making everyone in the UK poorer, more miserable, less prosperous and their lives harder all in the name of combating something they have zero control over abd which will make no difference to the outcome. I'd laugh baiut it except its serious because it's having a detrimental impact on my family's life. 

Thanks for the previous links. I guess I should have realised that we aren't the only country that has rowed back somewhat on its net zero pledges.

I'd love to know though - on what do you base your assertion that the drive to reduce emissions is making us all poorer and more miserable? 

[hypochondriac]

18 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Thanks for the previous links. I guess I should have realised that we aren't the only country that has rowed back somewhat on its net zero pledges.

I'd love to know though - on what do you base your assertion that the drive to reduce emissions is making us all poorer and more miserable? 

I assume you now accept then that China are essentially doing nothing and that really negates anything we decide to do? We are all poorer and more miserable for a number of reasons but net zero is certainly contributing. Our energy bills are horrendously high and will only get worse as we outsource our energy need and import loads of it from abroad, we will soon be mandating costly heat pumps in houses that are inefficient and incredibly expensive, anti car measures continue to be brought in by councils which are at best an irritant and at worse dangerous (look at the ridiculous 20mph limits around Shirley and Hill Lane as just one example that has recently been criticised by councillors.) Or ULEZ expansion which hits the hardest on the poorest in society who can least afford it. I predict in a few years there will be restrictions on flights abroad and possibly on the amount of cars. Non electric is being banned anyway and the infrastructure is just not there to cope with electricity demand so there's a very real risk in the future of blackouts or power cuts as we try to rely on renewables when the wind doesn't blow and the sun isn't shining.

Oh and you may laugh but M&S have transitioned to all paper bags which had the unfortunate effect of the bags now being inadequate for their purpose. Same with my daughters Capri Sun which now comes with a paper straw that cannot pierce the plastic. Those last two absolutely tiny annoyances of course and largely don't matter. All added together though with possibly some other impositions on our lives chasing the impossible net zero that I have forgotten, they add up to something rather more substantial. No doubt this makes us poorer and more unhappy as a nation. 

Edited 21 November, 2023 by hypochondriac

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

China is opening loads more coal powered power stations at a rate faster than any other country in the world. You're right that's not doing nothing, it's doing the opposite. 

"leading the way" by making everyone in the UK poorer, more miserable, less prosperous and their lives harder all in the name of combating something they have zero control over abd which will make no difference to the outcome. I'd laugh baiut it except its serious because it's having a detrimental impact on my family's life. 

Short term pain for long term gain. The switch to renewables is inevitable, if we become world leaders in the technology our economy will benefit as well as our environment. Digging stuff up and burning it for energy is just not sustainable, when you read about the possible effects of runaway global warming it would be negligent of us not to act for the sake of future generations.

[hypochondriac]

22 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Short term pain for long term gain. The switch to renewables is inevitable, if we become world leaders in the technology our economy will benefit as well as our environment. Digging stuff up and burning it for energy is just not sustainable, when you read about the possible effects of runaway global warming it would be negligent of us not to act for the sake of future generations.

If the runaway effects of global warming happen as predicted then they are going to happen anyway whether we in the UK do anything or not. Non western countries are making grand statements and then laughing at us as they largely carry on and let us make our lives worse and they strive for every competitive advantage they can get. Privately China will be rubbing their hands with glee when they see the path we are taking. 

Nothing wrong with some investment in renewables or looking to gain a competitive advantage in new technologies. That isn't just what we are doing though is it. Clearly. 

Edited 21 November, 2023 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

I too would like an answer to this one 

[Weston Super Saint]

97,000 people registered to attend COP 28 in Dubai.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67607289

Quote

COP28 is the biggest climate conference ever held with some 97,000 politicians, diplomats, journalists and campaigners registered for the meeting,

 

[Fan The Flames]

4 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

97,000 people registered to attend COP 28 in Dubai.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67607289

All staying in hotels, good business for Dubai.

[hypochondriac]

4 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

97,000 people registered to attend COP 28 in Dubai.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67607289

 

It's just some pathetic moneymaking scam. If they were truly worried and cared they'd do things very differently. Nice for politicians to have another jolly though.

[badgerx16]

6 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

97,000 people registered to attend COP 28 in Dubai.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67607289

 

Nobody boycotting because of the working conditions for migrant workers ?

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

All staying in hotels, good business for Dubai.

Also, 97,000 people having to take flights in and out of Dubai.

Would have been more climate friendly to have done the meeting by Teams  

[Whitey Grandad]

4 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Nobody boycotting because of the working conditions for migrant workers ?

They’re all migrants themselves. They fly in and they fly out again.

[Guided Missile]

Shocking new data. 

 

[Weston Super Saint]

When is this year's global warming kicking in?

1st of May today, it was 8 degrees.

[Sheaf Saint]

48 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

When is this year's global warming kicking in?

1st of May today, it was 8 degrees.

Wave of exceptionally hot weather scorches south and south-east Asia | South and central Asia | The Guardian

[Weston Super Saint]

That doesn't help us.

[Sheaf Saint]

48 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

That doesn't help us.

Sorry, I thought you said 'global'.

Oh, you did.

[Weston Super Saint]

9 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Sorry, I thought you said 'global'.

Oh, you did.

I also quoted it was 8 degrees.  I assume you thought I meant globally.

Oh, you did.

[Sheaf Saint]

3 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I also quoted it was 8 degrees.  I assume you thought I meant globally.

Oh, you did.

I obviously didn't though.

Just making the point that 'global' warming has no influence on below average temperatures for the time of year in a single location (it was 17 degrees where I am yesterday - totally normal for early May), while other parts of the world are experiencing exceptionally high temperatures.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I obviously didn't though.

Just making the point that 'global' warming has no influence on below average temperatures for the time of year in a single location (it was 17 degrees where I am yesterday - totally normal for early May), while other parts of the world are experiencing exceptionally high temperatures.

Right-o. So no affect on lower temperatures, but definitely affects places with higher temperatures. Got it.

Good for you with your normal temperature.

2nd of May today, pissing down and still 8 degrees.

When is global warming kicking in this year - the bit that gives the higher temperatures obviously.

[Sheaf Saint]

6 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Right-o. So no affect on lower temperatures, but definitely affects places with higher temperatures. Got it.

Good for you with your normal temperature.

2nd of May today, pissing down and still 8 degrees.

When is global warming kicking in this year - the bit that gives the higher temperatures obviously.

Global warming doesn't 'kick in' each year to bring you beach weather because it's a continuous, ongoing process based on a multi-decadal upward trend in average global temperatures. Just because it's a bit chilly where you are compared to what you think it should be for the time of year, doesn't negate that. 

It will get warmer in your locality when we have a period of high pressure that will prevent Arctic air pushing in from the north (as is happening currently), not when global warming 'kicks in'. 

[buctootim]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

2nd of May today, pissing down and still 8 degrees.

When is global warming kicking in this year - the bit that gives the higher temperatures obviously.

This is it - this is the core prediction for the UK - more rain, more storms and quite possibly lower temperatures despite a global rise on average. 

People forget/ don't realise just how far north we are - 51 degrees - on the same latitude as parts of Alaska and way further north than Toronto or Ottawa in Canada. 51 degrees south is the Falkland Islands.  We benefit from two phenomenon - the Gulf Stream and the Jet stream  which makes us far warmer than other places in comparable locations. Climate change will likely disrupt those and drive them further south, leaving us getting more Alaskan type weather - rain essentially.      

 

Edited Thursday at 13:44 by buctootim

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Right-o. So no affect on lower temperatures, but definitely affects places with higher temperatures. Got it.

Good for you with your normal temperature.

2nd of May today, pissing down and still 8 degrees.

When is global warming kicking in this year - the bit that gives the higher temperatures obviously.

You have exactly the same grasp of global warming as Donald Trump.

(And for avoidance of doubt, that is not a good thing).

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

You have exactly the same grasp of global warming as Donald Trump.

(And for avoidance of doubt, that is not a good thing).

Good job you're still ignoring my posts.

 

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Global warming doesn't 'kick in' each year to bring you beach weather because it's a continuous, ongoing process based on a multi-decadal upward trend in average global temperatures. Just because it's a bit chilly where you are compared to what you think it should be for the time of year, doesn't negate that. 

It will get warmer in your locality when we have a period of high pressure that will prevent Arctic air pushing in from the north (as is happening currently), not when global warming 'kicks in'. 

You just wait!

You'll be proven wrong when we have a heatwave at some point later in the year.  Global warming will be the culprit for sure.