England/Hungary/Racism Discussion (Split)

[Turkish]

Just now, Fan The Flames said:

Of course they will, wouldn't they?

No idea mate that’s why I asked

[Fan The Flames]

22 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

You seem to be determined to out Turkish Turkish with your bizarre requests for information that no one knows , ffs .

Hypo is an anti-woke solider on the front line engineering gotcha bombs.

[Fan The Flames]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

No idea mate that’s why I asked

I meant 'why wouldn't they?'

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Hypo is an anti-woke solider on the front line engineering gotcha bombs.

Would be better for the conversation if you actually answered the question. You think taking the knee is a positive thing because it's increased condemnation of racist chanting. All I asked was if there were any available examples that illustrated that assertion? Because I really didn't see racist chanting being ignored prior to the knee unless we go back a few decades. I don't think there's any evidence that it's increased condemnation of racist chanting and a fair bit of evidence that it's actually been quite divisive. 

[Billy the Kidd]

11 minutes ago, Turkish said:

So personal attacks on posters who dare to express an opinion different to the popular narrative is now “absolutely spot on, well said” but I guess when hours ago you said you weren’t engaging with me anymore yet still are shows that you’re not man/woman/non specific being of your word. 

Playing the victim again are you. Get over it fella 😅

No one has made a direct, personal assault on you. You are starting to sound ridiculous now.

And what does it matter to you if I carried on - like I said i was trying to understand your point? It literally says nothing of being of my word. Literally with most things you have said today, backs up my belief you are incredibly ignorant in some of your beliefs.

All that shows, as East Kent suggested, is you dont answer the Q, you change it slightly, and I agreed with him.

Anyhow, maybe you have a point, there isn’t much engagement going on with you, and it is getting a bit boring.

I’m off to have a good evening with the lovely Mrs Billy.

 

[Scallysaint]

Has this got anything to do with Saints?

 

[suewhistle]

19 hours ago, Jonnyboy said:

Turkish should write a book about how everyone apart from him is obsessed with racism. Would be a good outlet for his obsession. 

Well, having been the _only_  person in 25+ years of my being on the internet that I have ever put on ignore I can only go on the threads he starts and the threads he has contributed to, but he does seem rather interested in LGBT and racist topics. I just think 'what a sad mucker' and move on. On the occasions I forget to sign in and see some posts in which he occasionally has something sensible to say about the football it proves he's not a complete { choose yourself } but my goodness, he's hard work and an unpleasant character.

 

Edit: what I posted was based on the little I read at the start of the thread. Is the poor fellow now feeling picked on? The "man/woman/non specific" I've just seen quoted would suggest he just can't help it.

 

 

Edited 3 September, 2021 by suewhistle

[Fan The Flames]

20 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Would be better for the conversation if you actually answered the question. You think taking the knee is a positive thing because it's increased condemnation of racist chanting. All I asked was if there were any available examples that illustrated that assertion? Because I really didn't see racist chanting being ignored prior to the knee unless we go back a few decades. I don't think there's any evidence that it's increased condemnation of racist chanting and a fair bit of evidence that it's actually been quite divisive. 

I don't follow racist chanting enough to give you exact examples, I hope that's alright. Wgat I will say is, whilst there has been a progressive direction of travel for a while you can't deny that the momentum has gathered pace and the knee is part of that. Whether it cause the momentum shift or just reflects it who knows, who cares. I also don't care that some people don't like the knee, so fuckin what, it doesn't do them any harm. There is plenty of stuff that winds me up but I don't demand that people don't do it. Big planet, lots of people who think and do differently, people have to get over themselves.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Fan The Flames said:

I don't follow racist chanting enough to give you exact examples, I hope that's alright. Wgat I will say is, whilst there has been a progressive direction of travel for a while you can't deny that the momentum has gathered pace and the knee is part of that. Whether it cause the momentum shift or just reflects it who knows, who cares. I also don't care that some people don't like the knee, so fuckin what, it doesn't do them any harm. There is plenty of stuff that winds me up but I don't demand that people don't do it. Big planet, lots of people who think and do differently, people have to get over themselves.

I'd be interested to know what you mean by "the momentum has gathered pace." Those who have replied to my post all agreed that racist chanting in UK stadia was completely unacceptable prior to the taking of the knee so what momentum are you referencing? It's not like people heard racist chanting in the Premier league 4 years ago and it was just sort of waved through, it's been anathema for decades and life bans have been in place for that sort of thing for donkeys years. I don't think I've ever demanded that people stop taking the knee, in fact I support their right to do it if they want to. My question was if the belief is that stopping means the racists win, will it ever be acceptable to not take it? 

[East Kent Saint]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Whats factually incorrect about anything I’ve said?

Another moving of the goalposts as usual , your statements were all factually incorrect and I think you know that .

[East Kent Saint]

50 minutes ago, Scallysaint said:

Has this got anything to do with Saints?

 

No it is trolling by the usual suspects , why the moderators don’t step in ………..

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Another moving of the goalposts as usual , your statements were all factually incorrect and I think you know that .

So for example you’re saying no white English players were abused last night?

[Turkish]

Just now, East Kent Saint said:

No it is trolling by the usual suspects , why the moderators don’t step in ………..

Here he goes waving the imaginary card in the air 🤣🙄

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, suewhistle said:

Well, having been the _only_  person in 25+ years of my being on the internet that I have ever put on ignore I can only go on the threads he starts and the threads he has contributed to, but he does seem rather interested in LGBT and racist topics. I just think 'what a sad mucker' and move on. On the occasions I forget to sign in and see some posts in which he occasionally has something sensible to say about the football it proves he's not a complete { choose yourself } but my goodness, he's hard work and an unpleasant character.

 

Edit: what I posted was based on the little I read at the start of the thread. Is the poor fellow now feeling picked on? The "man/woman/non specific" I've just seen quoted would suggest he just can't help it.

 

 

Hi Sue, thanks for dipping in. you seem to forget to sign in and end up reading my posts an awful lot. You also always seem to end up commenting as well and calling me names, something I’ve never done to anyone on here. Nice to see you’ve announced you’ve got me on ignore again though 🤣

Edited 3 September, 2021 by Turkish

[East Kent Saint]

41 minutes ago, Turkish said:

So for example you’re saying no white English players were abused last night?

Another red herring 

[East Kent Saint]

41 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Here he goes waving the imaginary card in the air 🤣🙄

Trolling , Trolling , Trolling , Rawhide 😆 ……..

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Another red herring 

Answer the question, you had a go at me for not doing it so practice what you preach pal

[Chewy]

Have some people really not got anything to do on a Friday night than spout utter b0ll0cks about how the press are to blame for the modern wokist world that dares to report on racist chanting and produce a shirt supporting gender/sexual inclusion?

Get a life, go to a pub, speak to another real human being, stop being an internet troll, stop being an out of touch dinosaur. You are showing yourself up to be an utter tool with the sort of sad existence I thought only the likes of MLG had. There really is more to life than internet message boards. And as much as you try and convince yourself and others you’re “winning” this ridiculous argument, you’re not.

Take a vote, have a poll. Apart from hypo, everyone thinks you’re wrong and finds your views pretty unpleasant 

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Chewy said:

Have some people really not got anything to do on a Friday night than spout utter b0ll0cks about how the press are to blame for the modern wokist world that dares to report on racist chanting and produce a shirt supporting gender/sexual inclusion?

Get a life, go to a pub, speak to another real human being, stop being an internet troll, stop being an out of touch dinosaur. You are showing yourself up to be an utter tool with the sort of sad existence I thought only the likes of MLG had. There really is more to life than internet message boards. And as much as you try and convince yourself and others you’re “winning” this ridiculous argument, you’re not.

Take a vote, have a poll. Apart from hypo, everyone thinks you’re wrong and finds your views pretty unpleasant 

Don’t you have anything better to do on a Friday night than post about what other people are posting?

[Charlie Wayman]

2 hours ago, Scallysaint said:

Has this got anything to do with Saints?

 

Of course not

[Ralph Fastenbüttl]

Jesus, wtf is going on in this thread?

When it's the reaction to racism that makes you furious as opposed to, y'know, the actual racism, that should be a large fucking red flag telling you you're going about shit all wrong.

As a newcomer to this forum, can someone PLEASE tell me how to put people on the ignore list?

[Verbal]

51 minutes ago, Ralph Fastenbüttl said:

Jesus, wtf is going on in this thread?

When it's the reaction to racism that makes you furious as opposed to, y'know, the actual racism, that should be a large fucking red flag telling you you're going about shit all wrong.

As a newcomer to this forum, can someone PLEASE tell me how to put people on the ignore list?

Welcome to Turkishworld (along with hypo, trailing along behind him like a tin can tied to a wedding car).

[egg]

11 hours ago, Turkish said:

So for example you’re saying no white English players were abused last night?

That's a poor point. Kane and Shaw were given grief because they played for England. Black players suffered racist monkey chants because they were black. Don't be  conflating the two issues. 

[eurosaint]

9 hours ago, Ralph Fastenbüttl said:

Jesus, wtf is going on in this thread?

When it's the reaction to racism that makes you furious as opposed to, y'know, the actual racism, that should be a large fucking red flag telling you you're going about shit all wrong.

As a newcomer to this forum, can someone PLEASE tell me how to put people on the ignore list?

I have never put anyone on the 'ignore' list but very often when I see the name in bold above the post, I just ignore it, simples...

Tbf, so many are quoted retrospectively anyway that it's all a bit pointless in my opinion !!

[Billy the Kidd]

From BBC. Obviously not clear to everyone 🤫

England condemned the abuse as "completely unacceptable" and football's world governing body Fifa said on Friday that disciplinary proceedings had been opened "following analysis of the match reports".

"It is frustrating," said Bale. "I don't know why they launch these investigations that take so long. It is clear to see.

"I really don't get why there needs to be such a big investigation. It is clear that it happened."

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

From BBC. Obviously not clear to everyone 🤫

England condemned the abuse as "completely unacceptable" and football's world governing body Fifa said on Friday that disciplinary proceedings had been opened "following analysis of the match reports".

"It is frustrating," said Bale. "I don't know why they launch these investigations that take so long. It is clear to see.

"I really don't get why there needs to be such a big investigation. It is clear that it happened."

Sorry, I'm not sure of the point you're making by linking the first paragraph to what Bale said? 

[Billy the Kidd]

Just now, egg said:

Sorry, I'm not sure of the point you're making by linking the first paragraph to what Bale said? 

A couple of poster on here - didnt seem it was clear that’s it happened.

[egg]

Just now, Billy the Kidd said:

A couple of poster on here - didnt seem it was clear that’s it happened.

Ah, apologies. I thought it was a slight against Bale, my mistake 👍

[sadoldgit]

On 03/09/2021 at 10:19, Lighthouse said:

On a slight tangent, I thought the whole point of the kneeling was to fight racism? Surely, the fact that it gets such a negative reaction by the people whose opinions it’s supposed to be changing, shows that this is demonstrably not working. It’s all well and good saying they’re terrible racists and it’s disgusting that they boo taking the knee but if this is YOUR strategy for tackling it then clearly there needs to be a rethink.

A rethink because it upsets racists??? As has been said countless times, God forbid we should do anything that upsets the racists! The aim of the knee gesture is clearly working because we are still talking about it and it is encouraging racists out of the woodwork (not that many of them need any more encouragement). The problem we have has nothing to do with taking the knee. If they changed the gesture to standing on your head or raising both arms in the air, the usual suspects would find a reason to diss it. The problem is the people who oppose those who oppose racism. Why would anybody who opposes racism a) spend so much time and energy attacking those who oppose racism and b) spend so much time and energy trying to disprove that racisms exists to the level that it is a problem for our society when there is so much evidence from those being abused and elsewhere. It was no surprise to read that the Anti Woke Brothers are buddies in real life. They follow each other around these threads like a well honed tag team. Just like the Hungarian Ultras, they have been exposed for the ignorant individuals they are and it is good to finally see them properly challenged on here at last. The more people like this that become exposed by gestures like taking the knee the better and it shows that it is worthwhile. We might not be able to change the attitudes of the usual suspects on here, but at least their ignorance is being challenged.

[egg]

1 minute ago, sadoldgit said:

A rethink because it upsets racists??? As has been said countless times, God forbid we should do anything that upsets the racists! The aim of the knee gesture is clearly working because we are still talking about it and it is encouraging racists out of the woodwork (not that many of them need any more encouragement). The problem we have has nothing to do with taking the knee. If they changed the gesture to standing on your head or raising both arms in the air, the usual suspects would find a reason to diss it. The problem is the people who oppose those who oppose racism. Why would anybody who opposes racism a) spend so much time and energy attacking those who oppose racism and b) spend so much time and energy trying to disprove that racisms exists to the level that it is a problem for our society when there is so much evidence from those being abused and elsewhere. It was no surprise to read that the Anti Woke Brothers are buddies in real life. They follow each other around these threads like a well honed tag team. Just like the Hungarian Ultras, they have been exposed for the ignorant individuals they are and it is good to finally see them properly challenged on here at last. The more people like this that become exposed by gestures like taking the knee the better and it shows that it is worthwhile. We might not be able to change the attitudes of the usual suspects on here, but at least their ignorance is being challenged.

SOG, you again misunderstand and/or misrepresent what people have said. Nobody on this thread, or any other many similar ones, has a) criticised anyone for opposing racism or b) denied the existence of racism. Please read and understand. 

If you're going to join a serious discussion, please don't be  disingenuous. 

[Lighthouse]

6 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

A rethink because it upsets racists??? As has been said countless times, God forbid we should do anything that upsets the racists! The aim of the knee gesture is clearly working because we are still talking about it and it is encouraging racists out of the woodwork (not that many of them need any more encouragement)

To what end? This is what makes me doubt the motives and sincerity of some people; the fact that you consider this kind of reaction to be in some way a success is disconcerting. When you say, "encouraging racists out of the woodwork," that’s just a roundabout way of saying it stimulates racial abuse. If that’s you’re idea of ‘clearly working’ I’m afraid I don’t agree.

[Billy the Kidd]

15 minutes ago, egg said:

Ah, apologies. I thought it was a slight against Bale, my mistake 👍

Nah, I think Bales is right what he said (may have been earlier in the write up), about just walking off or banning the nation from competition. 

I dont understand why nations dont walk off, with an automatic victory for the abused team. If it happens a second time, they are banned from that competition. I just dont see how people would continue doing it if that happened.

[cloggy saint]

On 02/09/2021 at 21:59, Turkish said:

I’ve not looked on Twitter tonight. They threw cups at black and white players, only the BBC reporter appeared to hear the monkey noises and they were oppressed by communism so damn right they’d boo a gesture from a Marxist organisation. But let’s ignore all that and label all Hungarians racist 

I'm sure you're a perfectly reasonable, well-rounded person in the real world* but on here you just come across as a contrarian prick who's desperate for attention. Were you ignored as a child?

*I'm not sure of this.

[kyle04]

3 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Nah, I think Bales is right what he said (may have been earlier in the write up), about just walking off or banning the nation from competition. 

I dont understand why nations dont walk off, with an automatic victory for the abused team. If it happens a second time, they are banned from that competition. I just dont see how people would continue doing it if that happened.

Don't agree with walking off, England carried on  playing with dignity and professionalism and handed out a humiliating defeat, although AFAIK none of the players heard the monkey chanting at the time, but the crowd were clearly very hostile. The sort of following some of these countries get is quite disturbing, and where Hungary is concerned, the culture of racism starts at government level who are quite hostile to ethnic minorities and immigration in general. The world's new found enlightenment isn't going to engulf countries like Hungary any time soon, so we can just content ourselves that we are better than them, on the pitch and as a nation.

[Billy the Kidd]

7 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

Don't agree with walking off, England carried on  playing with dignity and professionalism and handed out a humiliating defeat, although AFAIK none of the players heard the monkey chanting at the time, but the crowd were clearly very hostile. The sort of following some of these countries get is quite disturbing, and where Hungary is concerned, the culture of racism starts at government level who are quite hostile to ethnic minorities and immigration in general. The world's new found enlightenment isn't going to engulf countries like Hungary any time soon, so we can just content ourselves that we are better than them, on the pitch and as a nation.

Your opinion I guess. 

If a black person at work was in a meeting, and someone started making monkey noises, would you expect to continue the meeting and deal with it later?

I agree that is an extreme analogy but it is effectively the same thing. Whilst the players may not have heard it this time, and some actually may have done so, it has happened before when they could, I for one wouldn’t continue, I’d walk off. 

[kyle04]

I get that, although the comparison is  a stretch. I just think "ignoring" the racists and continuing is a stronger message than walking off and letting them win so to speak, although of course there is  a limit. The decision would have to be made at official level, not by the players or manager, whereby a degree of subjectivity would come into play, how many racist chants, by how many people, for how long etc, I just don't see it as being workable.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

A rethink because it upsets racists??? As has been said countless times, God forbid we should do anything that upsets the racists! The aim of the knee gesture is clearly working because we are still talking about it and it is encouraging racists out of the woodwork (not that many of them need any more encouragement). The problem we have has nothing to do with taking the knee. If they changed the gesture to standing on your head or raising both arms in the air, the usual suspects would find a reason to diss it. The problem is the people who oppose those who oppose racism. Why would anybody who opposes racism a) spend so much time and energy attacking those who oppose racism and b) spend so much time and energy trying to disprove that racisms exists to the level that it is a problem for our society when there is so much evidence from those being abused and elsewhere. It was no surprise to read that the Anti Woke Brothers are buddies in real life. They follow each other around these threads like a well honed tag team. Just like the Hungarian Ultras, they have been exposed for the ignorant individuals they are and it is good to finally see them properly challenged on here at last. The more people like this that become exposed by gestures like taking the knee the better and it shows that it is worthwhile. We might not be able to change the attitudes of the usual suspects on here, but at least their ignorance is being challenged.

You don’t half talk some bollocks

[SFC Forever]

I do not get why we are so much against the Hungarians when we still need to put our house in order. Have we forgotten how our own supporters acted in the Euros?

Asking/suggesting that punishments such as banning for the racist chanting and throwing of items at our players could backfire on us. We also have a hooligan element in our fanbase. By all means complain about the behaviour of a few  but be aware that others will be able to repeat the action against our fans if and when they misbehave in similar fashion.

Edited 4 September, 2021 by SFC Forever
spelling

[Doctoroncall]

19 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Would be better for the conversation if you actually answered the question. You think taking the knee is a positive thing because it's increased condemnation of racist chanting. All I asked was if there were any available examples that illustrated that assertion? Because I really didn't see racist chanting being ignored prior to the knee unless we go back a few decades. I don't think there's any evidence that it's increased condemnation of racist chanting and a fair bit of evidence that it's actually been quite divisive. 

Why do you think it has been divisive?

 

On 03/09/2021 at 10:19, Lighthouse said:

On a slight tangent, I thought the whole point of the kneeling was to fight racism? Surely, the fact that it gets such a negative reaction by the people whose opinions it’s supposed to be changing, shows that this is demonstrably not working. It’s all well and good saying they’re terrible racists and it’s disgusting that they boo taking the knee but if this is YOUR strategy for tackling it then clearly there needs to be a rethink.

I'm not sure a sign of protest can change someone's opinion, that would be too simplistic. Surely it only raises what some people see as an issue and it seems to me that there aren't any governing bodies willing to take this issue on which could be a reason that the protest has continued.  What are the FA / UEFA / FIFA waiting for?

The Government has an 'independent' report (condemned by the UN for distorted and falsified historic facts) but hasn't implemented any recommendations and it doesn't specifically mention football.

[egg]

1 hour ago, Doctoroncall said:

Why do you think it has been divisive?

 

The divisions it's causing are obvious. The various threads on here highlight that. At its simplest, some people who support taking the knee consider the people that don't support it to be racists. Some people on both sides of the debate refuse to (or cannot) see the other side of the argument. It's divisive. 

 

[Billy the Kidd]

23 minutes ago, egg said:

The divisions it's causing are obvious. The various threads on here highlight that. At its simplest, some people who support taking the knee consider the people that don't support it to be racists. Some people on both sides of the debate refuse to (or cannot) see the other side of the argument. It's divisive. 

 

Yeah, the not taking the knee thing/racists is just ridiculous in think, doesn’t need to be synonymous, and people think different things for loads of different reasons.

I’m not so much for taking the knee, but doesn’t bother me if people want to.

[egg]

Just now, Billy the Kidd said:

Yeah, the not taking the knee thing/racists is just ridiculous in think, doesn’t need to be synonymous, and people think different things for loads of different reasons.

I’m not so much for taking the knee, but doesn’t bother me if people want to.

Ditto, and I think booing it is daft and classless as a minimum. Anyways, it's here to stay and we'll have the ongoing circus of boos, criticism, "debate", etc. 

[Billy the Kidd]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

Ditto, and I think booing it is daft and classless as a minimum. Anyways, it's here to stay and we'll have the ongoing circus of boos, criticism, "debate", etc. 

Yeah the booing makes me wonder what people who do it think it will achieve.

I think it will stay, and it doesn’t bother me as such, it is part of the game, along with the fan rivalry and singing of songs, just certain aspects have gone too far on racist/homophobic stuff. And that was always there in the background, and had to be accepted years gone by, and thankfully we now live in a world where shit is called out for what it is. 

I remember in around 2010 and I was working near Clapham, and the stuff in Egypt and similar countries was kicking off rising up against certain regimes, and I thought then the power of the world has shifted, in part to the easy spread of information the internet/social media has permitted. 

As bad as I find social media (I’m not on any platform apart from LinkedIn and hell knows why I’m on there either, other than jobs really), there are some really powerful and good stuff it has supported & achieved.

[Lighthouse]

2 hours ago, Doctoroncall said:

I'm not sure a sign of protest can change someone's opinion, that would be too simplistic. Surely it only raises what some people see as an issue and it seems to me that there aren't any governing bodies willing to take this issue on which could be a reason that the protest has continued.  What are the FA / UEFA / FIFA waiting for?

The Government has an 'independent' report (condemned by the UN for distorted and falsified historic facts) but hasn't implemented any recommendations and it doesn't specifically mention football.

After the Euro penalty shootout a number of people were arrested or questioned by the Police regarding the racist tweets. I believe it was only around 35 who could be ascertained as being in this country. I don’t know how many of those people were charged but I don’t get the impression this is being ignored by either the Police or the FA.

 

I agree though, FIFA and UEFA need to take a tougher stance with closed door matches and competition bans for certain clubs and countries.

[whelk]

6 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Your opinion I guess. 

If a black person at work was in a meeting, and someone started making monkey noises, would you expect to continue the meeting and deal with it later?

I agree that is an extreme analogy but it is effectively the same thing. Whilst the players may not have heard it this time, and some actually may have done so, it has happened before when they could, I for one wouldn’t continue, I’d walk off. 

Not extreme but a dreadful analogy

[hypochondriac]

5 hours ago, SFC Forever said:

I do not get why we are so much against the Hungarians when we still need to put our house in order. Have we forgotten how our own supporters acted in the Euros?

Asking/suggesting that punishments such as banning for the racist chanting and throwing of items at our players could backfire on us. We also have a hooligan element in our fanbase. By all means complain about the behaviour of a few  but be aware that others will be able to repeat the action against our fans if and when they misbehave in similar fashion.

Not sure what you're saying here? If England fans were doing monkey chants at their players from the stands then I'd be encouraging strong punishment against them to. But we aren't so it's not really comparable is it. 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

After the Euro penalty shootout a number of people were arrested or questioned by the Police regarding the racist tweets. I believe it was only around 35 who could be ascertained as being in this country. I don’t know how many of those people were charged but I don’t get the impression this is being ignored by either the Police or the FA.

 

I agree though, FIFA and UEFA need to take a tougher stance with closed door matches and competition bans for certain clubs and countries.

I agree with that. It's not really a widespread issue in the English game though is it. The fact that Hungary have apparently shouted some racist abuse at English players just highlights how different this real racism is in comparison to the exaggerated stuff from twitter. 

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Ditto, and I think booing it is daft and classless as a minimum. Anyways, it's here to stay and we'll have the ongoing circus of boos, criticism, "debate", etc. 

Couldn't you make the same argument against keeping the knee going as those who want the booing to stop? Both are set up in opposition to one another and both sides would use the same logic for keeping it going. 

[Billy the Kidd]

18 minutes ago, whelk said:

Not extreme but a dreadful analogy

Yeah I thought that when I wrote it, just had nothing else. 

[hypochondriac]

7 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Your opinion I guess. 

If a black person at work was in a meeting, and someone started making monkey noises, would you expect to continue the meeting and deal with it later?

I agree that is an extreme analogy but it is effectively the same thing. Whilst the players may not have heard it this time, and some actually may have done so, it has happened before when they could, I for one wouldn’t continue, I’d walk off. 

If there was clear racist chanting then I support the players in them doing whatever they think is necessary including walking off. They shouldn't have to put up with that as part of the job description no matter what they get paid. The whole episode if true though does highlight the very real differences between football in parts of Eastern Europe and elsewhere and the UK though. You simply don't get this sort of thing in the UK anymore thankfully so for Southgate and some on here to suggest that any issues we have are in some way comparable is absurd.