Why do Saints not have an independent supporters trust?

[EssEffCee]

Was having a read this morning of the reccomendations released by the review of football and it struck me that we're a bit of rarity in football in that we don't have any independent group to represent the supporters.

It seems especially odd given the instability we've had since the turn of the century, has there ever been anything attempted?

Unless I'm missing something of course but a quick Google brought up nothing but the Saints voice panel which is part of the club itself.

Interested to hear people's thoughts on why we're so different to the majority of English clubs?

And given the potential changes coming which may grant these groups additional power are we at risk of missing out? 

[Turkish]

Last time a supporters group got involved with the club we ended up with this 

 

[CB Fry]

Prepare yourself for some nostalgic posts about the glory days of SISA in the replies.

In a time of crisis (let's say we get relegated and end up in administration again) then groups will form.

But in pretty docile times, with a distant owner, its difficult to see what role a group can really play, beyond being an ego trip for the leaders who just want to get on South Today.

You want safe standing? No shit. More affordable tickets. Help for travelling supporters. Local beer in the concourse. Etc etc. There has been periodic chat about the "fan on the board" but unclear really what they truly would achieve.

The best case study of the inefficiency, puffed up arrogance and appalling decision making of fan group administration is the story of the Ted Bates statue. Where "being a Saints fan" is the only qualification required for any task. Absolute embarrassment.

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Prepare yourself for some nostalgic posts about the glory days of SISA in the replies.

In a time of crisis (let's say we get relegated and end up in administration again) then groups will form.

But in pretty docile times, with a distant owner, its difficult to see what role a group can really play, beyond being an ego trip for the leaders who just want to get on South Today.

You want safe standing? No shit. More affordable tickets. Help for travelling supporters. Local beer in the concourse. Etc etc. There has been periodic chat about the "fan on the board" but unclear really what they truly would achieve.

The best case study of the inefficiency, puffed up arrogance and appalling decision making of fan group administration is the story of the Ted Bates statue. Where "being a Saints fan" is the only qualification required for any task. Absolute embarrassment.

Remember the glory days when we had about 3 or 4 fans groups. SISA with Richard Chorley and him storming a fans meeting throwing loose change at Rupert Lowe believing he was some modern day Messiah throwing 30 pieces of silver at the Pharisees. The saints trust with their £25 worth of shares and the roar of the voice of the fans that would be sure to follow. The old saintsforver days with Micheal Wilde using Keith Legg as his puppet to get the fans on side. “Mike asked me to ask you…..” then the Ted Bates Statue Krew. “I’ve seen the statue it’s it’s tremendous….”

then of course there was the power struggle between the groups as to which one would make the elusive fan on the board which was being demanded at the time. Glorious times indeed.

[CB Fry]

4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Remember the glory days when we had about 3 or 4 fans groups. SISA with Richard Chorley and him storming a fans meeting throwing loose change at Rupert Lowe believing he was some modern day Messiah throwing 30 pieces of silver at the Pharisees. The saints trust with their £25 worth of shares and the roar of the voice of the fans that would be sure to follow. The old saintsforver days with Micheal Wilde using Keith Legg as his puppet to get the fans on side. “Mike asked me to ask you…..” then the Ted Bates Statue Krew. “I’ve seen the statue it’s it’s tremendous….”

then of course there was the power struggle between the groups as to which one would make the elusive fan on the board which was being demanded at the time. Glorious times indeed.

The only idea Chorley and co ever had was about turning the hospitality area into a all year round club and put local bands on every night. Like this was the money making solution to sustain a top level professional sports club. 

[Patrick Bateman]

24 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Remember the glory days when we had about 3 or 4 fans groups. SISA with Richard Chorley and him storming a fans meeting throwing loose change at Rupert Lowe believing he was some modern day Messiah throwing 30 pieces of silver at the Pharisees. The saints trust with their £25 worth of shares and the roar of the voice of the fans that would be sure to follow. The old saintsforver days with Micheal Wilde using Keith Legg as his puppet to get the fans on side. “Mike asked me to ask you…..” then the Ted Bates Statue Krew. “I’ve seen the statue it’s it’s tremendous….”

then of course there was the power struggle between the groups as to which one would make the elusive fan on the board which was being demanded at the time. Glorious times indeed.

Good days, but thinking about it, no one under the age of 25 will know any of this now and I'm pretty sure no one under the age of 30 will know of SISA?

So depending on the age of the poster, I'm not surprised by the question.  Does mean I want groups of Gen Z and Gen A running around throwing coins at people, building sh*t statues or flying to China to moan about lack of investment ... 

[Turkish]

25 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

The only idea Chorley and co ever had was about turning the hospitality area into a all year round club and put local bands on every night. Like this was the money making solution to sustain a top level professional sports club. 

SISA was alright at first with the Branfoot out stuff, but a few got carried away and they ended up being a bit of an embarrassment.
 

It was the power struggle during the run up to administration that was cringeworthy with various members of the groups all posturing to be the voice of the fans, lots of embarrassing “I can’t say too much but….” Type posts on here with their cronies all giving cryptic responses. 
 

anyway this thread is turning out just as you predicted 😀

[Turkish]

14 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Good days, but thinking about it, no one under the age of 25 will know any of this now and I'm pretty sure no one under the age of 30 will know of SISA?

So depending on the age of the poster, I'm not surprised by the question.  Does mean I want groups of Gen Z and Gen A running around throwing coins at people, building sh*t statues or flying to China to moan about lack of investment ... 

Probably true, must have been about 2007/08 for the last fans group. Who was that kid that organised the March to the stadium with a coffin? 

[rooney]

I remember giving our shares to a Fans Trust as Nominee so we would have a greater vote in getting Rupes out as chairman. This came about but sadly we lost our money when the club went into liquidation.

[CB Fry]

22 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Good days, but thinking about it, no one under the age of 25 will know any of this now and I'm pretty sure no one under the age of 30 will know of SISA?

So depending on the age of the poster, I'm not surprised by the question.  Does mean I want groups of Gen Z and Gen A running around throwing coins at people, building sh*t statues or flying to China to moan about lack of investment ... 

There must be a new generation of Corbynite/Extinction Rebellion/Avocado-on-Toast Saints fans ready to be the new generation of Chorley style activists.

How long before someone glues themselves to the entrance to the ticket office or five of them all lying down in Semmens spot so he can't park his Range Rover?

[Charlie Wayman]

1 hour ago, EssEffCee said:

Was having a read this morning of the reccomendations released by the review of football and it struck me that we're a bit of rarity in football in that we don't have any independent group to represent the supporters.

It seems especially odd given the instability we've had since the turn of the century, has there ever been anything attempted?

Unless I'm missing something of course but a quick Google brought up nothing but the Saints voice panel which is part of the club itself.

Interested to hear people's thoughts on why we're so different to the majority of English clubs?

And given the potential changes coming which may grant these groups additional power are we at risk of missing out? 

It's a fair point and if there is a need then we should set one up. What 'though would be its mission and objectives? That's a rhetorical question of course but if such a body was to be established it would need a clear remit and a defined role within the Club's structure.

At the moment there is no fan representation or voice on the Club Board but then again it is not a public company with no access to share participation.  

I think a group to represent fans is a better idea than a sole fan member on the Club Board for rather obvious reasons with the proviso that the group must be democratically chosen to represent the wide range of people and interests that support the Club.

Jack and a few of his mates forming a group is certainly not the way forward.

There may be a model on which to base it.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Fucking hell, the club is run badly enough as it is, the last thing we need is supporters groups getting involved. 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

6 hours ago, Turkish said:

Remember the glory days when we had about 3 or 4 fans groups. SISA with Richard Chorley and him storming a fans meeting throwing loose change at Rupert Lowe believing he was some modern day Messiah throwing 30 pieces of silver at the Pharisees. The saints trust with their £25 worth of shares and the roar of the voice of the fans that would be sure to follow. The old saintsforver days with Micheal Wilde using Keith Legg as his puppet to get the fans on side. “Mike asked me to ask you…..” then the Ted Bates Statue Krew. “I’ve seen the statue it’s it’s tremendous….”

then of course there was the power struggle between the groups as to which one would make the elusive fan on the board which was being demanded at the time. Glorious times indeed.

I knew this thread would attract Turkey and Fry like bees to the honeypot. I also knew it wouldn't be long before Chorley's name came up. You have made an error though Turk. The coin throwing was actually at the infamous AGM which Lowe kicked off by reading an anonymous letter from a fan who had written and told him what a brilliant job he had been doing. It degenerated into farce soon after Chorley threw the chocolate coins wrapped in foil on the table in front of him and the meeting was quickly abandoned with the club falling into administration soon after. Actually I miss those days, now our leader/owner is too remote for such histrionics. 

[JustinSFC]

34 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

I knew this thread would attract Turkey and Fry like bees to the honeypot. I also knew it wouldn't be long before Chorley's name came up. You have made an error though Turk. The coin throwing was actually at the infamous AGM which Lowe kicked off by reading an anonymous letter from a fan who had written and told him what a brilliant job he had been doing. It degenerated into farce soon after Chorley threw the chocolate coins wrapped in foil on the table in front of him and the meeting was quickly abandoned with the club falling into administration soon after. Actually I miss those days, now our leader/owner is too remote for such histrionics. 

Lmao.

I'm under 35 but I do know of Wilde and Lowe.

I wasn't an avid follower of saints around that time as I was too busy going out 4 nights a week getting smashed up town, so this Chorley bloke I've never heard of.

But reading your post and others in this thread has made me laugh.

I mean, really laugh. 
 

 

Edited 25 November, 2021 by JustinSFC

[Toussaint]

4 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fucking hell, the club is run badly enough as it is, the last thing we need is supporters groups getting involved. 

😂 I was just thinking how in hell would you find a representative fan’s voice? This whole forum is a bitch fest most of the time 

[HarvSFC]

Yeah, from what I remember Illingsworth wasn't too popular, as he became "the voice" of the fans, when some didn't agree with certain comments. Ultimately, it came to an end when it was a clash of egos between himself and Cortese and there was only going to be one winner given the relative power both had at the club.

The fans forums are fine as well as Semmens' communication with fans. He's not making himself a public figure/chasing the fame like you see some boardroom members do with outlandish statements every other week. Neither is he completely shut away, like you expect Levy is with Tottenham supporters and Gao is here. I think we've got about as much as you can expect to have from the board level at the moment.

Maybe we can bring Ralph Krueger back as the voice of the fans?

Edited 25 November, 2021 by HarvSFC

[manji]

8 hours ago, Turkish said:

Probably true, must have been about 2007/08 for the last fans group. Who was that kid that organised the March to the stadium with a coffin? 

The March was hilarious, it was on a match day. Very few were on the March but they mingled in with supporters walking to the ground and claimed the march was bigger than it was. Happy days.

[manji]

2 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

I knew this thread would attract Turkey and Fry like bees to the honeypot. I also knew it wouldn't be long before Chorley's name came up. You have made an error though Turk. The coin throwing was actually at the infamous AGM which Lowe kicked off by reading an anonymous letter from a fan who had written and told him what a brilliant job he had been doing. It degenerated into farce soon after Chorley threw the chocolate coins wrapped in foil on the table in front of him and the meeting was quickly abandoned with the club falling into administration soon after. Actually I miss those days, now our leader/owner is too remote for such histrionics. 

and I knew you would surface too. I hope you look back in embarrassment.

 

Not surprised you remember everything in detail. I am sure it is written down in the unfinished history of the club.

 

Edited 25 November, 2021 by manji

[whelk]

I vote Fry, Turkish and SOG to be the reps. 

[The Cat]

I was at that meeting when Chorley threw coins at Lowe. It was hilarious when Lowe read out that letter.

Is that fans voice group thing still going? Remember some dude on here being involved but can't say I've seen anything about it for quite a while.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Not to be unkind to anyone involved who had their heart in the right place, but I'm happy that none of them are still appearing claiming to represent my views as a fan.

As seen in the posts above, the absence of a trust isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

I vote Fry, Turkish and SOG to be the reps. 

I will be proud to stand as a candidate who pledges to unite Saints fans. After all, we are all the same, we all have the same dreams, we all want the best for our club. So we should all be united, as one, together. Except the ones that are twats. They can get stuffed.

Edited 25 November, 2021 by CB Fry

[Fan The Flames]

I have the Saints Trust share certificate somewhere in the loft. Anyone want to buy them?

[LGTL]

Glory days indeed. Chorley and his famous coin throwing takes some beating, but nothing comes close to the statue for me. Everything about it was glorious, and the statement from the trust about how ‘incredible’ it was is the icing on the cake. 

[Turkish]

17 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Glory days indeed. Chorley and his famous coin throwing takes some beating, but nothing comes close to the statue for me. Everything about it was glorious, and the statement from the trust about how ‘incredible’ it was is the icing on the cake. 

Ian Brennan has done a tremendous job. It is very rare I am lost for words but I saw the statue last week and it is awesome - a tremendous tribute to a great man. Fans have waited a long time for this and it is going to be fantastic. I really believe it will be the best football statue anywhere both in size and the amount of detail. Ted Bates was a remarkable servant who transformed this club and I think everyone is very excited to see the work under way and to know it will be a reality on March 16."

 

even now it’s frigging hilarious 

[Turkish]

22 hours ago, manji said:

The March was hilarious, it was on a match day. Very few were on the March but they mingled in with supporters walking to the ground and claimed the march was bigger than it was. Happy days.

That’s right, they claimed there were over 1000 on it when in reality it probably wasn’t more than 100. What a time to be a saints fan that was 

Edited 26 November, 2021 by Turkish

[CB Fry]

5 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Ian Brennan has done a tremendous job. It is very rare I am lost for words but I saw the statue last week and it is awesome - a tremendous tribute to a great man. Fans have waited a long time for this and it is going to be fantastic. I really believe it will be the best football statue anywhere both in size and the amount of detail. Ted Bates was a remarkable servant who transformed this club and I think everyone is very excited to see the work under way and to know it will be a reality on March 16."

 

even now it’s frigging hilarious 

Somewhere there's a line about the detail on his shoes that makes me laugh out loud. Just wonderful stuff.

[The Kraken]

On 25/11/2021 at 08:20, Turkish said:

The old saintsforver days with Micheal Wilde using Keith Legg as his puppet to get the fans on side. “Mike asked me to ask you…..”

You make out this is a bad thing, when in actual fact it gave us one of the best photoshops of all time with Keith as Mike’s little lapdog.

[swannymere]

We had a self-annointed independent supporters club consisting of fans with the best intentions and a bunch of publicity hungry muppets, they used to be the goto gob anytime the media wanted an opinion about Saints. Hugely embarrassing for the regular fan who likes to goto matches. I won't name names but a few post on here so i expect to be shot down with a revisionist history of what actually happened, expect Javi's name to get mixed up with it.

 

[Turkish]

34 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

You make out this is a bad thing, when in actual fact it gave us one of the best photoshops of all time with Keith as Mike’s little lapdog.

Yes that was a work of genius 🤣🤣

[Fan The Flames]

So are we concluding that because if the credibility crash, the statue killed of SFC independent fan groups, that's a legacy.

Edited 26 November, 2021 by Fan The Flames

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Somewhere there's a line about the detail on his shoes that makes me laugh out loud. Just wonderful stuff.

In the back tracking afterwards they were going on about how they hadn’t slept since the the unveiling and admitted they’d only actually seen the head not all of it like they claimed. 

[The Kraken]

2 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

So are we concluding that because if the credibility crash, the statue killed of SFC independent fan groups, that's a legacy.

The statue debacle was one example.

The utter farce that SISA turned into was another. The likes of Perry McMillan using the SISA label long after they were a defunct, closed shop, just so that they could get their name and mugshots into the Echo (shame on the Echo for not calling them out on this btw).

The Saints Trust was a bit of a disaster as well, and just ended up with some of the same old faces latching themselves onto it for their own self reasons (Illingsworth in particular was nauseating for it and outright lied about active Trust numbers just to keep himself relevant).

Saints fans groups just have a habit of being inept and/or being populated by fame hungry simpletons who see is as a badge of honour to be a fans voice. I have no need as a Saints supporter for representation from any of the people that have previously held these positions.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, The Kraken said:

The statue debacle was one example.

The utter farce that SISA turned into was another. The likes of Perry McMillan using the SISA label long after they were a defunct, closed shop, just so that they could get their name and mugshots into the Echo (shame on the Echo for not calling them out on this btw).

The Saints Trust was a bit of a disaster as well, and just ended up with some of the same old faces latching themselves onto it for their own self reasons (Illingsworth in particular was nauseating for it and outright lied about active Trust numbers just to keep himself relevant).

Saints fans groups just have a habit of being inept and/or being populated by fame hungry simpletons who see is as a badge of honour to be a fans voice. I have no need as a Saints supporter for representation from any of the people that have previously held these positions.

At least Nick genuinely does/did care about the club, i dont remember him lying about the trust stuff  but i think he was doing it for the right reasons even if it did make him unpopular with some fans. Some of the others just seemed to love the limelight, i dont think Chorley is even a saints fan, IIRC he supports Man United. 

[manji]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

In the back tracking afterwards they were going on about how they hadn’t slept since the the unveiling and admitted they’d only actually seen the head not all of it like they claimed. 

It was funny but I couldn’t believe the delusion that was going on. How the fuck did they think they would get away with the statue ? We got enough shit from the other fans. Can you imagine if it happen now with  social media.

Newer members shouldn’t imagine it being just about the statue, there was plenty else going on. A certain person positioning himself for a job as official club historian, the Chorley chap claiming he had tea with Rupert Lowe. 
I’m sure I will think of some others.

[manji]

I remember the 'Saint Trust' numbers being massaged not sure it was by Nick Illingsworth though. 

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, manji said:

I remember the 'Saint Trust' numbers being massaged not sure it was by Nick Illingsworth though. 

Pretty sure it was as I recall him catching a lot of grief for it over on the UI. It was when they quietly went from an annual subscription model to a ‘once in always in’. May not have been done directly by Nick but I’m sure he was part of what was left of the Trust at that point.

[The Kraken]

14 minutes ago, manji said:

It was funny but I couldn’t believe the delusion that was going on. How the fuck did they think they would get away with the statue ? We got enough shit from the other fans. Can you imagine if it happen now with  social media.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I’ve never read anything funnier on a football forum than the statue reveal thread. Genuine belly laughs through it all as the complete farce of it unfolded.

[manji]

18 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I’ve never read anything funnier on a football forum than the statue reveal thread. Genuine belly laughs through it all as the complete farce of it unfolded.

am I imagining it but did they have a countdown to the specific time it was unveiled ? I’m sure there was a countdown to something. Insane times. 

[The Kraken]

6 minutes ago, manji said:

am I imagining it but did they have a countdown to the specific time it was unveiled ? I’m sure there was a countdown to something. Insane times. 

I think there may have been!  It’s a genuine regret that the whole thread doesn’t exist any more. But there was definitely a big build up to it, hence the giddy excitement after Dave Ford issued his ‘best statue ever’ rhetoric in the days before. And then, wham 🤣

[Katalinic]

11 hours ago, manji said:

am I imagining it but did they have a countdown to the specific time it was unveiled ? I’m sure there was a countdown to something. Insane times. 

There was. I think I was sad enough to be "live" on the forum for it - like most, I just sat open mouthed staring at it in disbelief. I remember a photo was taken of those at the unveiling and their facial expressions said it all. Did Mandaric end up buying the original? 

[JRM]

On 25/11/2021 at 18:19, The Cat said:

I was at that meeting when Chorley threw coins at Lowe. It was hilarious when Lowe read out that letter.

Is that fans voice group thing still going? Remember some dude on here being involved but can't say I've seen anything about it for quite a while.

Lowe reading out the anonymous letter clearly written by himself was absolute comedy genius to be fair, very funny moment. 

This was my favourite Chorley moment going back to the Dell days