The Death of the Tory Party and the Rebirth of the UK As We Know It (General Election 2024 Thread)

[Gloucester Saint]

Why doesn’t James Bagge do a Go Fund me for his campaign against Liz Truss? If the other parties can be persuaded to not stand in her seat, and he gets enough finance to sustain a decent campaign plus all of the other papers bar the DT and Mail pile in on Truss, Tufton St’s filthy lucre would take the ultimate bloody nose.

It would beat the best moments of 1997 - Martin Bell beating Neil Hamilton, Mellor getting beaten - by a mile.

Probably won’t happen but with all-in effort it could happen. I’d donate if he did, my duty as a British citizen to beat the plastic Trumpite https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-turnip-taliban-trump-us-b2502705.html

With Tufton St, Telegraph and Mail in her corner, that would level the playing field a little bit to have the rest of the country behind James Bagge.

Edited February 27 by Gloucester Saint

[ecuk268]

12 hours ago, whelk said:

Yeah been tucked away as the headline story on the 6pm news. Imagine the coverage of it if was antisemitism?

It was amusing listening to Mark Harper being questioned by  Nick Ferrari about 30p Lee.

He was asked about 5 times if Anderson's remarks were Islamophobic or racist  but just kept repeating that they were "wrong". Like Dowden the day before he couldn't actually say what was wrong about them. 

[whelk]

30 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

It was amusing listening to Mark Harper being questioned by  Nick Ferrari about 30p Lee.

He was asked about 5 times if Anderson's remarks were Islamophobic or racist  but just kept repeating that they were "wrong". Like Dowden the day before he couldn't actually say what was wrong about them. 

And another one. They should be embarrassed. Imagine Malcolm Tucker getting hold of this robot? Contempt for listener and well done Ferrari for cutting short the interview

https://x.com/campbellclaret/status/1762430406031237414?s=61&t=SMhSD-dpl9sq7-ekGbXk7Q

Edited February 27 by whelk

[hypochondriac]

Interesting long form interview here with Suella. I found it interesting to listen to her when she is allowed to provide her reasoning for her thinking and without the caricature on social media. Didn't agree with her on everything but she made some good points imo. Certainly worth a listen and enlightening-yet depressing- about how government operates. 

 

[pingpong]

Sunak has just given a speech that is the very definition of woke, welcoming diversity and celebrating multiculturalism and anti-racism. Not sure how that will sit with some of his backbench.  Is he trying to force them over to reform?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sadoldgit]

31 minutes ago, pingpong said:

Sunak has just given a speech that is the very definition of woke, welcoming diversity and celebrating multiculturalism and anti-racism. Not sure how that will sit with some of his backbench.  Is he trying to force them over to reform?

 

 

 

 

 

 

That won’t sit well with the likes of Truss, Braverman, Anderson etc. No good him holding out an olive  branch to minority groups if many of his front and back benchers are trying desperately  to stoke up the culture wars. As you say, perhaps his new plan is to force the far right out and try and position himself as the banner bearer of a new centre right. It’s a bit late for that Rishi. Your pathetic handling of the Islamophobic faction of your party hasn’t gone unnoticed.

Elsewhere, sad news for Rochdale. Not only were their democratic rights ignored by archaic parliamentary rules (they should have been given the opportunity of having a replacement Labour candidate when Ali was suspended from the party), but they are now stuck with the deeply dodgy George Galloway for 6 months. As if Rochdale doesn’t have enough problems.

[badgerx16]

59 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

That won’t sit well with the likes of Truss, Braverman, Anderson etc. No good him holding out an olive  branch to minority groups if many of his front and back benchers are trying desperately  to stoke up the culture wars. As you say, perhaps his new plan is to force the far right out and try and position himself as the banner bearer of a new centre right. It’s a bit late for that Rishi. Your pathetic handling of the Islamophobic faction of your party hasn’t gone unnoticed.

Elsewhere, sad news for Rochdale. Not only were their democratic rights ignored by archaic parliamentary rules (they should have been given the opportunity of having a replacement Labour candidate when Ali was suspended from the party), but they are now stuck with the deeply dodgy George Galloway for 6 months. As if Rochdale doesn’t have enough problems.

They didn't have to vote for him. It is their choice.

[sadoldgit]

If you are going all MLG then 12,335 voted for him and of the turn out 18,772 voted for other candidates. Several people interviewed on the radio today who voted for him had no idea about his past. Yes, they might well end up thinking that he is the best thing since sliced bread. His history would suggest otherwise.

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/01/george-galloway-wins-rochdale-byelection

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/01/george-galloway-constituency-hopping-campaigner-who-is-rarely-far-from-controversy

Edited March 1 by sadoldgit
Added text

[badgerx16]

10 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

If you are going all MLG then 12,335 voted for him and of the turn out 18,772 voted for other candidates. Several people interviewed on the radio today who voted for him had no idea about his past. Yes, they might well end up thinking that he is the best thing since sliced bread. His history would suggest otherwise.

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/01/george-galloway-wins-rochdale-byelection

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/01/george-galloway-constituency-hopping-campaigner-who-is-rarely-far-from-controversy

As the song goes "The Christmas you get you deserve". There were 11 candidates, and more people voted for Gorgeous George Galloway the Gorbals Gobshite than any of the others. If they didn't know his past, ignored it, or went for the candidate with the best hat, it doesn't matter - they executed their democratic mandate and he came out on top. They could all have voted for the Independant local candidate who came second, but enough of them preferred the rabble rousing self publicist with no ties to the town, and proibably no intention of even opening an effective constituency office.

No point crying foul after the event.

He won't be their MP after the next GE.

Edited March 1 by badgerx16

[whelk]

10 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

He won't be their MP after the next GE.

Exactly. Can’t be arsed to listen to or read any analysis. Meaningless result that will have no long term effect on the population of Rochdale

[sadoldgit]

I am not crying. I just feel sorry for the people who end up with the likes of Galloway, Truss, Braverman, Anderson, Dorries, Johnson etc for their MPs in the same way I feel sorry for the UK after Brexit. It’s the downside of democracy. You often get your hopes shafted by other people’s choices. The next election is going to be unpleasant enough without throwing George Galloway into the mix. Also putting personalities to one side, the people of Rochdale were denied the choice of an official Labour candidate. Irrespective of what happens at the next election, that is not good for their democratic rights.

We have enough tw@s in Parliament already, this particular one is going to make things even worse, if only for 6 months.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Galloway pretty much shares your opinion on Jews. 

Edited March 2 by Lord Duckhunter

[badgerx16]

23 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I am not crying. I just feel sorry for the people who end up with the likes of Galloway, Truss, Braverman, Anderson, Dorries, Johnson etc for their MPs in the same way I feel sorry for the UK after Brexit. It’s the downside of democracy. You often get your hopes shafted by other people’s choices. The next election is going to be unpleasant enough without throwing George Galloway into the mix. Also putting personalities to one side, the people of Rochdale were denied the choice of an official Labour candidate. Irrespective of what happens at the next election, that is not good for their democratic rights.

We have enough tw@s in Parliament already, this particular one is going to make things even worse, if only for 6 months.

They were denied an 'official' Green Party candidate as well, but you seem to have ignored that detail.

[Lord Duckhunter]

28 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

They were denied an 'official' Green Party candidate as well, but you seem to have ignored that detail.

He’s all over the place. 
 

Moaning about “culture wars” whilst fighting one post by post (🤡 he’s now lumping Galloway in with his other  bogeymen). Moaning about Galloway & the ex Labour candidate, when they both share his opinion of Israeli/Hamas situation. According to him “the downside of democracy”  seems to be people voting for someone he doesn’t like. 
 

 

[badgerx16]

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

He’s all over the place. 
 

Moaning about “culture wars” whilst fighting one post by post (🤡 he’s now lumping Galloway in with his other  bogeymen). Moaning about Galloway & the ex Labour candidate, when they both share his opinion of Israeli/Hamas situation. According to him “the downside of democracy”  seems to be people voting for someone he doesn’t like. 
 

 

Perhaps there should be some sort of competency test to find out who is fit to vote ?

[AlexLaw76]

 

[hypochondriac]

22 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

 

TBF I'm not sure John sweeney is in a position to lecture anyone else about integrity and who they should vote for, whatever your views on Galloway. 

[Fan The Flames]

48 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

TBF I'm not sure John sweeney is in a position to lecture anyone else about integrity and who they should vote for, whatever your views on Galloway. 

I think someone is laying a little bit of bait for Soggy. BTW it's not a lecture on integrity.

[Fan The Flames]

3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He’s all over the place. 
 

Moaning about “culture wars” whilst fighting one post by post (🤡 he’s now lumping Galloway in with his other  bogeymen). Moaning about Galloway & the ex Labour candidate, when they both share his opinion of Israeli/Hamas situation. According to him “the downside of democracy”  seems to be people voting for someone he doesn’t like. 

More binary thinking from the pub bore.

[Lord Duckhunter]

You might not like Galloway’s politics, but he’s more charismatic than 99.9% of the HoC.

 

 

[sadoldgit]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2024/mar/02/mob-rule-the-tory-right-has-rishi-sunak-on-a-short-leash-cartoon#img-1

This cartoon perfectly sums up Rishi Sunak and the Tory party at the moment. His own party members are trying to stoke up the hate war and he does little or nothing about it other than calling a surprise briefing on Friday in which he, again, completely ignored his own party members complicity in trying to take the focus off the dire state of the country and try and turn it onto pesky foreigners and their issues (that one is for you Weston 😉).

Do us a favour Rishi, call another one of these surprise briefings on Monday, but this time announce an election in May.

Edited March 3 by sadoldgit
Added text

[a1ex2001]

On 02/03/2024 at 14:50, Lord Duckhunter said:

You might not like Galloway’s politics, but he’s more charismatic than 99.9% of the HoC.

 

 

Sadly Charisma and competence/integrity don’t always go hand in hand!  Boris had plenty of charisma…..

[sadoldgit]

Some people put charisma over integrity, competence, humanity,  empathy and the interests of ordinary people. These people tend to lean towards the far right but will also latch on to freaks like Galloway. This particular poster still gets hot over Thatcher when most normal people now understand what a disaster she was for this country and how she sowed the seeds for looking after number 1 over what is best interests for all. This particular poster will also remember that Galloway had a close relationship with his hero Nigel Farage over Brexit so no surprise that he is a fanboy of his too.

[badgerx16]

48 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Some people put charisma over integrity, competence, humanity,  empathy and the interests of ordinary people. These people tend to lean towards the far right but will also latch on to freaks like Galloway. This particular poster still gets hot over Thatcher when most normal people now understand what a disaster she was for this country and how she sowed the seeds for looking after number 1 over what is best interests for all. This particular poster will also remember that Galloway had a close relationship with his hero Nigel Farage over Brexit so no surprise that he is a fanboy of his too.

Why are you so scared to name him ? Duckie ain't all bad.

[Weston Super Saint]

20 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2024/mar/02/mob-rule-the-tory-right-has-rishi-sunak-on-a-short-leash-cartoon#img-1

This cartoon perfectly sums up Rishi Sunak and the Tory party at the moment. His own party members are trying to stoke up the hate war and he does little or nothing about it other than calling a surprise briefing on Friday in which he, again, completely ignored his own party members complicity in trying to take the focus off the dire state of the country and try and turn it onto pesky foreigners and their issues (that one is for you Weston 😉).

Do us a favour Rishi, call another one of these surprise briefings on Monday, but this time announce an election in May.

Why?

Please show me one single post in my entire posting history that is similar.

Otherwise, accept that you have made shit up.  Again.

[sadoldgit]

4 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Why?

Please show me one single post in my entire posting history that is similar.

Otherwise, accept that you have made shit up.  Again.

My apologies if you are not the same Weston Super Saint who uses the adjective “pesky” in an attempt to get a bite.

[Weston Super Saint]

33 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

My apologies if you are not the same Weston Super Saint who uses the adjective “pesky” in an attempt to get a bite.

You are a weirdo.

[Lord Duckhunter]

13 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Why are you so scared to name him ? Duckie ain't all bad.

It can be me,he claims  he’s got me on ignore 😂😂

Edited March 4 by Lord Duckhunter

[Farmer Saint]

Not sure why everyone is so harsh on him tbh, I've always like Elvis Costello.

"Hamas's Army is on its way..."

Edited March 4 by Farmer Saint

[badgerx16]

24 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Not sure why everyone is so harsh on him tbh, I've always like Elvis Costello.

"Hamas's Army is on its way..."

".....

London is full of Arabs.

We could be in Palestine,

..."

[badgerx16]

If Jeremy Hunt thinks the problems with Council budgets are down to hiring a few consultants and running diversity schemes then he isn't fit to operate an abacus, let alone run the Nation's finances..

[whelk]

20 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

If Jeremy Hunt thinks the problems with Council budgets are down to hiring a few consultants and running diversity schemes then he isn't fit to operate an abacus, let alone run the Nation's finances..

Don’t tell me…….they are going to focus on back office waste (that has somehow escaped 12 years of austerity)that they have ignored for 14 years and now realise it is the solution so everyone wins right?

[sadoldgit]

21 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

You are a weirdo.

And you are really not very good at this are you? If you think calling me names makes any difference when your posts fail you are sadly deluded. I also don’t watch GB News as per your post in a different thread.

Anyway, back to this failing PM and government. The Lords have done what most logical people would do with his Rwanda bill. If he had one ounce of nous he would have ditched it as soon as he took office. Another example of his weakness and poor decision making. He is in hock to the right wing of his party and it will add to his and the party’s downfall.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/04/lords-pass-five-amendments-to-rwanda-bill-in-heavy-defeat-for-rishi-sunak

[badgerx16]

45 minutes ago, whelk said:

Don’t tell me…….they are going to focus on back office waste (that has somehow escaped 12 years of austerity)that they have ignored for 14 years and now realise it is the solution so everyone wins right?

"Councils will be told to reduce spending on consultants and diversity schemes when Chancellor Jeremy Hunt delivers his Budget on Wednesday.

He will urge town halls to cut back on what he says is wasteful spending and stress the importance of productivity."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68477450

 

Jeremy Cunt, the Hancellor of the Exchequer.

[whelk]

13 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

"Councils will be told to reduce spending on consultants and diversity schemes when Chancellor Jeremy Hunt delivers his Budget on Wednesday.

He will urge town halls to cut back on what he says is wasteful spending and stress the importance of productivity."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68477450

 

Jeremy Cunt, the Hancellor of the Exchequer.

Usual bollocks that Daily Mail will peddle whereas quite simple as states:

 

[badgerx16]

Surprised he isn't raising the spectre of "non-jobs".

Anything to try to deflect from the responsibility that successive Tory administrations hold for mis-managing the public finances.

[Weston Super Saint]

5 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

And you are really not very good at this are you? If you think calling me names makes any difference when your posts fail you are sadly deluded. I also don’t watch GB News as per your post in a different thread.

What are you blithering on about now?

I thought you didn't read any of my posts and had me on ignore.  Weirdo.

[hypochondriac]

5 hours ago, whelk said:

Usual bollocks that Daily Mail will peddle whereas quite simple as states:

 

Why is demand at an all time high? 

[badgerx16]

10 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Why is demand at an all time high? 

https://www.local.gov.uk/about/campaigns/save-local-services/save-local-services-council-pressures-explained

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/17/levelling-up-housing-and-communities-committee/news/199671/government-must-tackle-4bn-council-funding-gap-or-risk-severe-impact-to-services-and-council-finances-say-mps/

Largely Social Care.

Edited March 5 by badgerx16

[whelk]

47 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Why is demand at an all time high? 

People living longer, population increase/immigration, less community support, shit diets, more and heavier vehicles on roads

[pingpong]

Willfully stupid from the Hunt. Most of those jobs are focused on protecting authorities from expensive litigation, or ensuring that authorities fulfill their duties, eg for disabled staff or customers. The amount of time and money they spend on diversity schemes and recruiting people from different backgrounds, which seems to be the government's fear, is minimal.

A dozen cases kept out of court would pay for these schemes a hundred times over. Getting rid of them will cost money in the long run, see Birmingham and Southampton for examples where not enough was spent on such schemes, with dire financial consequences...

 

[Gloucester Saint]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

People living longer, population increase/immigration, less community support, shit diets, more and heavier vehicles on roads

Agree with most of those, migration is less of an issue as they are mostly younger, not staying more than 2-3 years and utilising many services. Asylum different story of course but then as we both knew and probably said on here at the time the promise to take back our borders and antagonise our neighbours was particularly moronic. The lockdowns have caused surges in demand for mental health and diets got worse plus cost of living has made fresh produce more costly. 

Biggest issue is 13 years of austerity and the largely needless reduction in core LA budgets 2010-16 which means for example that the heavier SUVs are navigating and crushing crumbling roads. Some of the B road potholes in the north of the Cotswolds are huge and capable of dismounting/killing a biker from out of the area. At best, if you hit one full on that’s £300 for a new suspension bush.

Hunt’s diversity comments are from the Lynton Crosby dead cat school of tactics eg throwing one on the table to distract very simple people from what you’re really up to/fucked up now. It’s probably 0.1% of budgets in metropolitan areas where community relations are vital and saves other services a ton of money. Unlike most of his shit-thick and totally incapable cabinet colleagues, the sad fact is that Hunt is actually more than bright enough to know this too from a long stint as Health Minister. 

This 23 year old lad via this article gets it, the NI cut only helps the very rich and over-65s. Easy to see why no-one else under that age votes for them https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68448107

 

[Gloucester Saint]

9 hours ago, whelk said:

Don’t tell me…….they are going to focus on back office waste (that has somehow escaped 12 years of austerity)that they have ignored for 14 years and now realise it is the solution so everyone wins right?

And the civil service posts he’ll announce they are cutting are partially from Covid but mostly from….Brexit. Their Brexit. 

[Tamesaint]

1 hour ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Agree with most of those, migration is less of an issue as they are mostly younger, not staying more than 2-3 years and utilising many services. Asylum different story of course but then as we both knew and probably said on here at the time the promise to take back our borders and antagonise our neighbours was particularly moronic. The lockdowns have caused surges in demand for mental health and diets got worse plus cost of living has made fresh produce more costly. 

Biggest issue is 13 years of austerity and the largely needless reduction in core LA budgets 2010-16 which means for example that the heavier SUVs are navigating and crushing crumbling roads. Some of the B road potholes in the north of the Cotswolds are huge and capable of dismounting/killing a biker from out of the area. At best, if you hit one full on that’s £300 for a new suspension bush.

Hunt’s diversity comments are from the Lynton Crosby dead cat school of tactics eg throwing one on the table to distract very simple people from what you’re really up to/fucked up now. It’s probably 0.1% of budgets in metropolitan areas where community relations are vital and saves other services a ton of money. Unlike most of his shit-thick and totally incapable cabinet colleagues, the sad fact is that Hunt is actually more than bright enough to know this too from a long stint as Health Minister. 

This 23 year old lad via this article gets it, the NI cut only helps the very rich and over-65s. Easy to see why no-one else under that age votes for them https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68448107

 

You are one of my favourite posters and I normally agree with your posts but how does a NI cut only benefit the over 65s?? You don't pay NI on earnings if you are still working when you are over 65.

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, Tamesaint said:

You are one of my favourite posters and I normally agree with your posts but how does a NI cut only benefit the over 65s?? You don't pay NI on earnings if you are still working when you are over 65.

I stand corrected, he’s opted for this as it’s on paper cheaper than income tax cuts. It benefits higher earners most - but far more of those at the lower end of the higher earner rate are being dragged in by the £50k cap being frozen since 2013 https://ifamagazine.com/what-would-a-rumoured-2-cut-in-nics-in-spring-budget-look-like-analysis-and-reaction-from-experts/#:~:text=The cut will therefore benefit,rates are devolved in Scotland.

It’s the best worst cut he had available - and least inflation-stoking. I’ve no doubt the tabloids and hard right wanted 2p off income tax instead, fuelling Truss-gate Mk2. If you’re on £30k a year, it’s still only really helpful if you live with your folks saving it up as outgoings have become so horrific over the last few years. And for social mobility, if the person on £30k now that 2p off NI might help a bit then gets a promotion or two and if the £50k start limit for higher rate doesn’t lift, they hit a different glass ceiling that their parents didn’t. 

Edited March 5 by Gloucester Saint

[Lord Duckhunter]

You’d think someone posting about the budget would realise who does & doesn’t pay NI. 

[Tamesaint]

1 hour ago, Gloucester Saint said:

I stand corrected, he’s opted for this as it’s on paper cheaper than income tax cuts. It benefits higher earners most - but far more of those at the lower end of the higher earner rate are being dragged in by the £50k cap being frozen since 2013 https://ifamagazine.com/what-would-a-rumoured-2-cut-in-nics-in-spring-budget-look-like-analysis-and-reaction-from-experts/#:~:text=The cut will therefore benefit,rates are devolved in Scotland.

It’s the best worst cut he had available - and least inflation-stoking. I’ve no doubt the tabloids and hard right wanted 2p off income tax instead, fuelling Truss-gate Mk2. If you’re on £30k a year, it’s still only really helpful if you live with your folks saving it up as outgoings have become so horrific over the last few years. And for social mobility, if the person on £30k now that 2p off NI might help a bit then gets a promotion or two and if the £50k start limit for higher rate doesn’t lift, they hit a different glass ceiling that their parents didn’t. 

If Hunt doesn't raise the income tax thresholds he will increase the tax take from the " squeezed middle". More and more "ordinary" people will become higher rate taxpayers. Some people may not notice and be taken in by the headlines of money off NI....but most people who are not Daily Mail readers will notice and will not forget when at the ballot box. 

[sadoldgit]

If the reports are true, I am not sure about the wisdom of cutting the size of the NI pot with an aging population and the triple lock still in place on state pensions. The cynic in me thinks that this is a way of them saying they are cutting taxes whilst making life even more difficult financially for the next government.

[Weston Super Saint]

32 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

If the reports are true, I am not sure about the wisdom of cutting the size of the NI pot with an aging population and the triple lock still in place on state pensions. The cynic in me thinks that this is a way of them saying they are cutting taxes whilst making life even more difficult financially for the next government.

Why would that make life more difficult for the next government?

Likely that the election will be in May (November at the latest), so the new Government in place in either June or December.  They just reverse anything they don't like in the first week, re-raise taxes to the level they want them to be.

It's not a difficult thing to do, Liz the Lettuce's budget was reversed in a matter of days.

[badgerx16]

Cut NI and freeze the thresholds, in 2 years time, after pay rises, they claw back what they have given out.

 

On the matter of savings from cutting diversity, Birmingham's budget is approx. £2Bn, they spend around £450k on such schemes. That is hardly going to make up their shortfall. In other cases, the diversity/equalities staff might actually be funded by Government grants intended for that specific purpose.

Edited March 6 by badgerx16