The Death of the Tory Party and the Rebirth of the UK As We Know It (General Election 2024 Thread)

[aintforever]

4 hours ago, Turkish said:

🤣 Gordon brown didn’t cause the financial crash but Liz Truss is solely responsible for global rise in interest rates. Fuck me 

Think you need to learn to read because I have never said that. I know she didn’t cause the global rise in rates, that’s why I compared her to Brown who also didn’t cause the global crash yet still got hammered at the ballot box.

Maybe I should have got my crayons out.  

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Think you need to learn to read because I have never said that. I know she didn’t cause the global rise in rates, that’s why I compared her to Brown who also didn’t cause the global crash yet still got hammered at the ballot box.

Maybe I should have got my crayons out.  

calm down princess, i got you mixed up with FTF who admitted he did say that as you'll see below. That's the problem when you constantly make ridiculous statements, people assume it's you that made them even when it wasn't. 

4 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Aintforever didn't say solely, I did. Which I admit was an exaggeration. Yes interest rates were affected by energy ect, I consider myself school by the Saintsweb brains. But it's estimated she caused 2% increase to mortgages, which is massive.

When you think about it as the rate was rising, it makes her moves even worse. People who had head room to cope with the world wise rises were squeezed even more, possibly to breaking point, for no reason other than her mad experiment. Even more reason to not vote for the Tories. 

 

Edited March 16 by Turkish

[CB Fry]

So, who do reckon is going to win the election, lads?

[Lighthouse]

30 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

So, who do reckon is going to win the election, lads?

I believe Glasgow had £5 on Putin, but he cashed out for £374, before the result was announced.

[whelk]

3 hours ago, CB Fry said:

So, who do reckon is going to win the election, lads?

Tory. They promise to tackle public sector inefficiencies.

[badgerx16]

10 minutes ago, whelk said:

Tory. They promise to tackle public sector inefficiencies.

Is the Government itself part of the Public Sector ? If so, surely they represent the most inefficient sector.

Edited March 16 by badgerx16

[Gloucester Saint]

According to the Mail on Sunday, private polling is saying absolute best case scenario for the Tories is a 50 seat Labour majority and worst is 250. Changing leader is cited as making little to no difference in the data. Besides which, Sunak would simply call a GE if challenged anyway.

According to the DT, removing Truss was the end for the party - their male editorship really do have a teenage crush for her don’t they?

Edited March 17 by Gloucester Saint

[Turkish]

10 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Is the Government itself part of the Public Sector ? If so, surely they represent the most inefficient sector.

They’re tackling that. Going to themselves above inflation pay rises as well. No one tell us the tories don’t care about the public sector again 

[badgerx16]

Another one bites the dust;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68658896

[The Kraken]

Just when you think the Tories can’t scrape the bottom of the barrel any further, then go and announce Jonathan fucking Gullis as party deputy chairman to replace 30p Lee. Gullis is the shaved chimp who previously heckled with this lovely interjection at PMQs.

[Sheaf Saint]

I'm sure Rishi has only given him this 'accolade' in order to stop him from defecting to Reform as well, but little does he realise that this is comparable to being promoted to assistant chief stoker on the Titanic after the previous holder of the post jumped overboard.

[Tamesaint]

Gullis will be back working as a school teacher this time next year. No way is he regaining his seat at the election . 

[The Kraken]

🤣

 

 

[Sheaf Saint]

36 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

Gullis will be back working as a school teacher this time next year. No way is he regaining his seat at the election . 

I doubt any of the schools in Stoke will hire him, given his obvious toxicity.

I also doubt he will even contest the next election as a Tory.

[Gloucester Saint]

That picture sums it up perfectly. Even by Red Waller and ERG standards, incredibly basic. Would have been perfect BNP local elections material mid-1990s, so ideal for today’s Reform UK. Sunak has totally lost the plot. 

Conservatives always talk up the areas they represent, erm not in this case https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jonathan-gullis-criticises-constituents-conservative_uk_63f3475ee4b0616708dc8626

Good news coming shortly though Kraken https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Stoke-on-Trent North

Another to toast when he falls in the autumn.

Edited March 27 by Gloucester Saint

[Gloucester Saint]

Some good articles here about why they are continuing to slide and out of touch beyond their very narrow and elderly membership base https://www.ft.com/content/88fbf5c4-828e-4552-948e-951475cf626c

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/frank-luntz-political-strategist-tory-partys-biggest-enemy-themselves-general-election

Agree with Luntz, people predicting total wipeout won’t see that. They will still get at least 150 seats, anything better than 1997 is probably success at this stage as it is a far, far worse administration even with hindsight than Major’s. 

 

Edited March 27 by Gloucester Saint

[whelk]

Going well then? Clowns can’t sort anything. Oh yeah inflation coming down. Anything else that they can campaign on? 
https://news.sky.com/story/record-number-of-migrants-cross-english-channel-so-far-this-year-13102663

[The Kraken]

33 minutes ago, whelk said:

Going well then? Clowns can’t sort anything. Oh yeah inflation coming down. Anything else that they can campaign on? 
https://news.sky.com/story/record-number-of-migrants-cross-english-channel-so-far-this-year-13102663

Come on now, they only need the Rwanda planes to start taking off and that’ll solve the whole immigration problem immediately.

[badgerx16]

52 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Come on now, they only need the Rwanda planes to start taking off and that’ll solve the whole immigration problem immediately.

Is that the ones to Rwanda, or those coming the other way ?

 

TBF, they have started a social media campaign in Vietnam to try to deter immigrants from there.

Edited March 27 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

Excluding the pandemic, 2023 showed the weakest GDP growth in the UK since the 2009 banking crisis.

[sadoldgit]

Here we go…

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/george-galloway-uk-moscow-attack-isis-obama-russia-b2519381.html

[Sheaf Saint]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Excluding the pandemic, 2023 showed the weakest GDP growth in the UK since the 2009 banking crisis.

That can't be right, surely? The Tories have grown the economy and made us all better off, and I know that's true because Jonathan Gullis said so.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Here we go…

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/george-galloway-uk-moscow-attack-isis-obama-russia-b2519381.html

An enigmatic post.

I'm assuming you posted it because you agree with every word mad George has to say?

[whelk]

21 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

An enigmatic post.

I'm assuming you posted it because you agree with every word mad George has to say?

What has it got to do with a Tory party thread?

[whelk]

19 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Come on now, they only need the Rwanda planes to start taking off and that’ll solve the whole immigration problem immediately.

Those pesky lefty lawyers

[Gloucester Saint]

One very immediate problem for a new government stemming from a failed 1980s policy https://www.standard.co.uk/business/thames-water-ofwat-crisis-bills-regulator-utility-debt-nationalisation-bills-kemble-shareholders-b1148304.html

All very well Gove being annoyed - and what he says is true, but idiotic to have national utilities having billions taken out in dividends in the first place https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2024/mar/28/thames-water-crisis-sewage-rivers-funding-uk-recession-gdp-economy-sterling-business-live

They clearly took a great deal of heed of his speech six years ago https://news.sky.com/story/michael-gove-water-companies-must-clean-up-their-act-or-face-tougher-regulation-11272867

As with the trains, not as if there’s a market for consumers to shop around in to make the imaginary free market fairy an option. 

Hope none of the rowers fall into the Thames during the race https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68674088

Edited March 28 by Gloucester Saint

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

What has it got to do with a Tory party thread?

Fuck all.

[Sheaf Saint]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

What has it got to do with a Tory party thread?

It's like all the other "Death of XXX" threads in recent years. Eventually everyone just ignores the thread title and treats it as the current general UK politics thread.

Having said that, SOG's post might have been more appropriate on the Russia thread, but hey ho. If it was any other poster, you and WSS probably wouldn't have even bothered to comment on it. Any excuse to stick the boot in.

[whelk]

18 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

It's like all the other "Death of XXX" threads in recent years. Eventually everyone just ignores the thread title and treats it as the current general UK politics thread.

Having said that, SOG's post might have been more appropriate on the Russia thread, but hey ho. If it was any other poster, you and WSS probably wouldn't have even bothered to comment on it. Any excuse to stick the boot in.

You cannot let standards slip. If thread order goes then what next?

[sadoldgit]

30 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

It's like all the other "Death of XXX" threads in recent years. Eventually everyone just ignores the thread title and treats it as the current general UK politics thread.

Having said that, SOG's post might have been more appropriate on the Russia thread, but hey ho. If it was any other poster, you and WSS probably wouldn't have even bothered to comment on it. Any excuse to stick the boot in.

Absolutely! Anyway, I posted this here because I thought we had discussed his winning the by-election on this thread as part of a discussion about the current democratic process and choices. His comments have more to do with the state of political discourse and standard of politicians here than a hare-brained conspiracy theory. 

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

An enigmatic post.

I'm assuming you posted it because you agree with every word mad George has to say?

 

4 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Absolutely! Anyway, I posted this here because I thought we had discussed his winning the by-election on this thread as part of a discussion about the current democratic process and choices. His comments have more to do with the state of political discourse and standard of politicians here than a hare-brained conspiracy theory. 

You could have just replied with a 'yes'.

[Fan The Flames]

We will have to wait a little longer for a Reclaim London Mayor, Fox fucked up the entry form.

I know this is a Tory thread, but Reclaim are the Tories diffusion line.

[badgerx16]

8 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

That can't be right, surely? The Tories have grown the economy and made us all better off, and I know that's true because Jonathan Gullis said so.

Is that the same Jonathan Gullis who blames Labour for blocking the Rwanda Bill, when the Conservatives have a majority in both the HoC and HoL - and when, in fact, he abstained from voting for it ?

[rallyboy]

Gullis is an appalling excuse for a minister, the ugly poster boy for everything bad in politics.

Let's hope he doesn't get back into teaching when his current grift goes down the shitter, the kids of Stoke deserve far better, as do the voters.

[sadoldgit]

It comes to something when you are less popular than the truly odious Farage.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/rishi-sunak-less-popular-nigel-32470306.amp

[Gloucester Saint]

Good article in the DT https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/03/29/tory-advisers-desert-rishi-sunak-for-keir-starmer/

PS - whilst it wouldn’t be quite as big a landmark as 1997, keep an eye on the Sun. Eschewed politics for several weeks, then double page interview with Reeves, front page quotes by Starmer and Trevor Kavanagh’s assessment on the budget not saving Tory hopes. 

[sadoldgit]

3 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Good article in the DT https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/03/29/tory-advisers-desert-rishi-sunak-for-keir-starmer/

PS - whilst it wouldn’t be quite as big a landmark as 1997, keep an eye on the Sun. Eschewed politics for several weeks, then double page interview with Reeves, front page quotes by Starmer and Trevor Kavanagh’s assessment on the budget not saving Tory hopes. 

Murdoch is no mug and can tell which way the wind is blowing. No surprises that he will start cozying up to Starmer as he will be concerned about Labour bringing in policies that will lead to the breakup of his media empire in the UK. With Reform looking like they could mop up the dissatisfied Tory voters too it isn’t looking good for Sunak or the right in general when it comes to bums on seats at Westminster.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Murdoch is no mug and can tell which way the wind is blowing. No surprises that he will start cozying up to Starmer as he will be concerned about Labour bringing in policies that will lead to the breakup of his media empire in the UK. With Reform looking like they could mop up the dissatisfied Tory voters too it isn’t looking good for Sunak or the right in general when it comes to bums on seats at Westminster.

Source?

[The Cat]

7 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Good article in the DT https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/03/29/tory-advisers-desert-rishi-sunak-for-keir-starmer/

PS - whilst it wouldn’t be quite as big a landmark as 1997, keep an eye on the Sun. Eschewed politics for several weeks, then double page interview with Reeves, front page quotes by Starmer and Trevor Kavanagh’s assessment on the budget not saving Tory hopes. 

Private Eye have been predicting for a while that the Sun will back Starmer. 

[The Kraken]

44 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Private Eye have been predicting for a while that the Sun will back Starmer. 

Of course they will. They always pivot to the party that is likely to win so they can be seen to be associated with the winning side. They’ve been doing it for decades. Current polling indicates that the Tories are in store for an absolute hammering, The Sun have basically already shown their hand in the last few weeks that they’re favouring Labour.

[Gloucester Saint]

Tory right wing/ERG and Reform into a civil war death spiral - hard to see a pact happening https://news.sky.com/story/row-between-conservatives-and-nigel-farages-reform-as-tory-chair-calls-richard-tice-a-threatening-bully-13105273

Hence the latest poll https://news.sky.com/story/tories-could-be-left-with-fewer-than-100-mps-after-next-general-election-major-poll-suggests-13105117

Gullis’s appointment is another lack of judgement by Sunak. May’s local elections are not going to be pretty.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Gloucester Saint said:

hard to see a pact happening 

Do try & keep up.
 

Last year Tice gave members a guarantee they wouldn’t step aside in any seats & Nigel has spoken about wanting to obliterate the Tories and emulate what happened in Canada. 
 

 

[Gloucester Saint]

6 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Do try & keep up.
 

Last year Tice gave members a guarantee they wouldn’t step aside in any seats & Nigel has spoken about wanting to obliterate the Tories and emulate what happened in Canada. 
 

 

Can’t say I follow Tice and Farage much but yes, it does appear that Tice committed to that on 3 January this year.

Looks like the One Nation Conservative movement and older generation era splintering away, voters under 50 won’t go for much of this and it’s as unsustainable and unlikely to pass the sniff test with global markets as Truss was. Tim Montgomerie labelled it barking mad on the £50bn of ‘wasteful public spending’ (yes, he does have an agenda but he’s broadly not wrong in saying that): https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-reform-party-is-too-wedded-to-the-free-market/

The Spectator missed this out on renationalising some utilities and limiting overseas impact in their overall tone of their piece which is the one headline Reform policy (there’s other micro ones like free Wi-Fi on public transport) I do agree with very broadly. However, it would come with a hefty up-front price tag, which is OK if you’ve left enough in the Treasury to absorb it and enjoy the longer-term savings it would make and free up household incomes. Their tax cutting policies make that very unlikely https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64464933

If Farage is correct and they want to cause a ‘Canada’, they certainly could play a disruptive role, more so than Goldsmith did in 1997.  What happens after the GE would be interesting, although without electoral reform they will burn a lot of cash for little tangible political return eg seats or councils held (I can’t see them doing local government at that scale but hard to build a network for repeated success without) after settling the score at this GE. Depends what their medium term goal is - to swallow the Tory Party, infiltrate it, maybe push the One Nation group into an expanded Lib Dem camp like a moderate Tory Limehouse moment? Or do they see themselves if Farage takes a more frontline role as being a more effective pressure group in the media and online to a Labour government with what looks like being a material majority.

You’re probably more in touch with Reform UK so open question I guess - what do you think they want to achieve 2025 onwards?

Edited March 31 by Gloucester Saint

[Lord Duckhunter]

14 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

You’re probably more in touch with Reform UK so open question I guess - what do you think they want to achieve 2025 onwards?

I’ve no idea what they want after any election, but imagine a realignment on the right will be the goal & fold into a party that can tap into Right wing Tories as well as Boris’ 2019 converts. 

 I can’t really see the Tice/Lowe types in reform adding anything that the Tories don’t have already, and they’re not going to appeal to the 2019 converts. Theres definitely a lot of voters who are socially conservative & left leaning economically in the country, whether reform can be as successful as Boris was in attracting them is the big question. You’d think not, because Reform are a lot further to the right on the economy, and that’ll become apparent in any GE campaign. Unless they cost the Tories 40/50 seats, the Tories will ignore them, whilst trying to become Labour lite. 

 

[Coerezza]

Gullis losing his seat would (hopefully will) be a great moment. However I'll see that moron and raise you Dame Andrea Jenkyns!

[Tamesaint]

6 minutes ago, Coerezza said:

Gullis losing his seat would (hopefully will) be a great moment. However I'll see that moron and raise you Dame Andrea Jenkyns!

She'll be gone as well after the election. 😁

[Fan The Flames]

1 minute ago, Tamesaint said:

She'll be gone as well after the election. 😁

Hopefully the ultimate Johnson cultist will be shown the middle finger by her constituents.

[whelk]

Starmer might even grow a pair and increase tax on some of the gross wealth that has increased in last 10 years with this predicted majority. Doubt it 

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-forecast-to-win-landslide-of-over-400-seats-with-yougov-poll-predicting-tory-wipeout-at-election-13107202

[whelk]

See the Masons are still thriving getting Greater Manchester Police to investigate Rayner. It’s the working class that are avoiding tax for sure

[rallyboy]

When the Daily Mail quietly swaps sides and offers Starmer an exclusive front page, you know the polling must be bad.