The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[Holmes_and_Watson]

4 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Not sure anyone would be delighted if they opened the door and he was there mumbling and muttering in his monotone voice.

Sometimes, the sleeping podcasts don't work. 🙂

[The Kraken]

The move is on. 57 MPs and counting have called for Starmer to resign.

[The Kraken]

Labour ones, obvs.

[badgerx16]

22 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

The move is on. 57 MPs and counting have called for Starmer to resign.

 

20 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Labour ones, obvs.

Maybe a few from the other parties could ( temporarily ) "cross the floor" and defect to Labour, just to boost the anti-Starmer numbers.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Up to 60.

Although already split between those wanting a rapid change ("we want Streeting") and those wanting the PM to lay out a timetable for departure ("we want Burnham")

[The Kraken]

If there’s one thing the Labour Party is really good at, it’s internal division.

[Gloucester Saint]

18 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

If there’s one thing the Labour Party is really good at, it’s internal division.

Just as in 2010 and 2015, when they’re actually needed they cock it up, or rather the far left does. 

[iansums]

22 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

If there’s one thing the Labour Party is really good at, it’s internal division.

To be fair, the Tories are pretty good at it too. I find it all rather depressing, we’re starting to get through PM’s like football clubs get through managers.

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, iansums said:

To be fair, the Tories are pretty good at it too. I find it all rather depressing, we’re starting to get through PM’s like football clubs get through managers.

Just wait until they start spying on eachother....

[aintforever]

Labour will fuck it up, that’s guaranteed. First they picked the wrong Milliband brother, then they somehow ended up with Corbyn. The only reason Starmer looked half decent was because he followed those to shit shows, and he only got where he did by brown-nosing Corbyn. Burnham would probably do OK but they’ve already fucked up that option.

[AlexLaw76]

On 16/07/2024 at 08:55, sadoldgit said:

Now that the GE is done and dusted it is time for a new political thread. Hopefully we can get back to grey, boring politics again after the crazy, psycho dramas of the last few years.

Starmer’s Labour have certainly hit the ground running but it doesn’t look like they will be given much of a honeymoon period.

 

How’s this working out?

[hypochondriac]

Although Starmer has been an awful PM and has done very little right, I am inclined to agree with @whelk that some of the silliness from the media over the past few days has been ridiculous. Rather like all this stuff with our spying, is it really necessary to have an hour by hour update on which moment the Prime Minister is resigning and counting each individual MP telling hin to go? All a bit unseemly from a media desperate for clicks and turning the management of our country into a TV drama series.

[rallyboy]

He's done, he's just not ready to accept it yet.

But in the chart of worst PMs of the last decade he's still not in the medals.

[hypochondriac]

8 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

He's done, he's just not ready to accept it yet.

But in the chart of worst PMs of the last decade he's still not in the medals.

Depends how you measure worst. I'd say his ability to communicate, charisma and his ability to actually be a politician he's up there.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Not lasting 2 years with a fucking massive majority & the main opposition party still bumping along the bottom of the opinion polls, you have to be pretty fucking useless. By the time the Tories started tearing themselves apart, they’d been in office about 6 years and it was off the back of a very divisive referenda. To fuck up this badly & be so useless is actually a pretty remarkable achievement. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Lord Duckhunter

[Gloucester Saint]

12 hours ago, The Kraken said:

If there’s one thing the Labour Party is really good at, it’s internal division.

I also trust their membership to get a leadership selection right as much as I trusted the Conservatives recent membership base e.g. Truss. So that means Miliband or bloody Rayner. Best the country can hope for probably is the timetable option and wait for Burnham to win a seat.

Ought to be Streeting or Mahmood but not sure the headbangers in their membership would support either.

[Winnersaint]

23 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Not lasting 2 years with a fucking massive majority & the main opposition party still bumping along the bottom of the opinion polls, you have to be pretty fucking useless. By the time the Tories started tearing themselves apart, they’d been in office about 6 years and it was off the back of a very divisive referenda. To fuck up this badly & be so useless is actually a pretty remarkable achievement. 

It’s what you get when someone who comes late to politics and finds that he’s shit at it when he’s in the top job.

[hypochondriac]

25 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

I also trust their membership to get a leadership selection right as much as I trusted the Conservatives recent membership base e.g. Truss. So that means Miliband or bloody Rayner. Best the country can hope for probably is the timetable option and wait for Burnham to win a seat.

Ought to be Streeting or Mahmood but not sure the headbangers in their membership would support either.

Although I can see that Burnham on the face of it has a much wider appeal than the other two, his actual policies sound like the opposite of what we need. Loosening the financial rules and ignoring the bond markets in order to go on a spending spree with more money that we don't have is a recipe for disaster.

[Gloucester Saint]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Although I can see that Burnham on the face of it has a much wider appeal than the other two, his actual policies sound like the opposite of what we need. Loosening the financial rules and ignoring the bond markets in order to go on a spending spree with more money that we don't have is a recipe for disaster.

Oh I agree with you, whoever is on power is ‘in hock to the markets’ anyway because of the Covid debts, Trump’s war and slashed economy post-Brexit. It won’t be any different for him. Truss said similar and look what happened…

Him or Streeting are much better orators than Starmer and less reticent on difficult decisions which listening to the public seems to be biggest gripe with the status quo. If I was a Labour member and I gave a shit about the country as well as the party being in power, I’d want Streeting or Mahmood.

But I’m not, and I reckon their headbangers would prefer Burnham. And he’s better than Miliband or Rayner, that was my point. 

[iansums]

3 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

How’s this working out?

We could have asked SOG if he hadn't disappeared.

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Oh I agree with you, whoever is on power is ‘in hock to the markets’ anyway because of the Covid debts, Trump’s war and slashed economy post-Brexit. It won’t be any different for him. Truss said similar and look what happened…

Him or Streeting are much better orators than Starmer and less reticent on difficult decisions which listening to the public seems to be biggest gripe with the status quo. If I was a Labour member and I gave a shit about the country as well as the party being in power, I’d want Streeting or Mahmood.

But I’m not, and I reckon their headbangers would prefer Burnham. And he’s better than Miliband or Rayner, that was my point. 

Yeah I mostly agree with that. I reckon Mahmood would be the most effective out of all of them (and a minority woman so lots of people would like that) but no chance the PLP elect her. I'm just hoping whatever the new leader does, we can move away from the managerialism and obsession with international law. I'm also hoping that whoever it is manages to junk the assisted suicide Bill.

[AlexLaw76]

It is -f-inf tedious watching Journos camped outside No.10 shout at ministers as they com/go.

 

[tdmickey3]

7 minutes ago, iansums said:

We could have asked SOG if he hadn't disappeared.

Hope he comes back to help with the few with their obsessive disorders on here

[Gloucester Saint]

4 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

It is -f-inf tedious watching Journos camped outside No.10 shout at ministers as they com/go.

 

Better than them camped at Staplewood I suppose.

Probably next if Saints win tonight, At least Tonda will give them nothing. 

[iansums]

3 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Hope he comes back to help with the few with their obsessive disorders on here

I'm sure Turkish is missing him.

[hypochondriac]

8 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Hope he comes back to help with the few with their obsessive disorders on here

Oh he will be back. He always is.

[aintforever]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Oh he will be back. He always is.

And the usual bunch of weirdos will be responding to him no doubt.

[revolution saint]

Yvette Cooper would be my choice.  Streeting would be OK, never really rated Raynor and Burnham has spent so long banging on about the North and how badly off they are that he can f*ck off.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Just caught a beeb headline saying Starmer has told the cabinet, he's not resigning.

Looking forward to Kier v7 saying

"71 signatures? I've got you all a 156 majority. So they can sod off, if they're not happy."

"You think it's hard now? Wait until you see the debt and lack of market confidence all of my so-called successors bring you. I'm not letting that happen"

"I'm aware the press have all been waiting patiently for sound bites outside No 10. Each of my ministers will be giving a one sentence show of support on their way out. Or their replacements will be doing it later."

[iansums]

Jess Philips has now resigned, I think she is the highest profile minister to quit so far.

[SotonianWill]

35 minutes ago, iansums said:

Jess Philips has now resigned, I think she is the highest profile minister to quit so far.

Sounds like one of her main reasons for resigning is because Sir Keir was not willing to add mass surveillance onto everyone’s phone. 

[Weston Super Saint]

5 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

 

Him or Streeting are much better orators than Starmer 

Really?

Wasn't he the most gifted orator ever to walk the planet when he was rinsing Boris during PM questions?

What happened to the talented, confident, ex legal professional who could destroy the opposition with just his words?

[Turkish]

5 hours ago, iansums said:

We could have asked SOG if he hadn't disappeared.

Usual form to see a clean pair of heels when something he doesn't agree with is going on. Coward.

[Turkish]

5 hours ago, iansums said:

I'm sure Turkish is missing him.

I havent mentioned him nor has anyone else until today, although he'll be checking in here and seeing if we are talking about him. He'll be loving that he's got a mention today. Back soon now it's guarenteed.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 hours ago, SotonianWill said:

Sounds like one of her main reasons for resigning is because Sir Keir was not willing to add mass surveillance onto everyone’s phone. 

Football fan Keir preferred the more expensive option of An Intern On Every Street. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

16 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Really?

Wasn't he the most gifted orator ever to walk the planet when he was rinsing Boris during PM questions?

What happened to the talented, confident, ex legal professional who could destroy the opposition with just his words?

I reckon the new broom got inserted somewhere, and he's just been too embarrassed to say, all this time.

Sounds more like an enfeebled John Major with every speech/reboot.

[Gloucester Saint]

5 hours ago, revolution saint said:

Burnham has spent so long banging on about the North and how badly off they are that he can f*ck off.

Labour need to push the Middlesbrough MP under a bus, Burnham stands and wins.

Perfect solution. Made for each other.

All he needs to do is slag off Southampton Football Club during the campaign, demanding our relegation over 10 consecutive seasons, and he’ll get a stonking majority.

Edited 2 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Really?

Wasn't he the most gifted orator ever to walk the planet when he was rinsing Boris during PM questions?

What happened to the talented, confident, ex legal professional who could destroy the opposition with just his words?

He’s good in Parliament, very good actually. But the chamber environment is quite like a courtroom with procedures, protocol and disciplines which is his environment. He’s also excellent at international set pieces. 

Live TV debates, public settings, they’re very different and far more unpredictable these days in a populist, digital and very fast moving age. Streeting, Mahmood and probably Burnham are more cut out to operate and communicate in that landscape, especially Streeting. Could see him taking chunks off Polanski, Tice and Farage. Been brutal with the NHS changes in a way the Tories couldn’t do. Forced Reeves’s hands on the redundancy pay offs as well. 

[The Kraken]

31 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

He’s good in Parliament, very good actually. But the chamber environment is quite like a courtroom with procedures, protocol and disciplines which is his environment. He’s also excellent at international set pieces. 

Live TV debates, public settings, they’re very different and far more unpredictable these days in a populist, digital and very fast moving age. Streeting, Mahmood and probably Burnham are more cut out to operate and communicate in that landscape, especially Streeting. Could see him taking chunks off Polanski, Tice and Farage. Been brutal with the NHS changes in a way the Tories couldn’t do. Forced Reeves’s hands on the redundancy pay offs as well. 

Is he? I’ve always found Starmer to be something of a wooden speaker. Relies heavily on his notes, certainly doesn’t have anywhere near the speed of thought and gravitas of Blair or Cameron. 

With Boris Johnson, what Starmer excelled at was baiting the hook and letting Johnson’s lies unravel. But an inspiring public speaker? Not for me.

[egg]

7 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Oh I agree with you, whoever is on power is ‘in hock to the markets’ anyway because of the Covid debts, Trump’s war and slashed economy post-Brexit. It won’t be any different for him. Truss said similar and look what happened…

Him or Streeting are much better orators than Starmer and less reticent on difficult decisions which listening to the public seems to be biggest gripe with the status quo. If I was a Labour member and I gave a shit about the country as well as the party being in power, I’d want Streeting or Mahmood.

But I’m not, and I reckon their headbangers would prefer Burnham. And he’s better than Miliband or Rayner, that was my point. 

Starmer is an excellent orator, but, his skills worked better in opposition where he was essentially in cross examination mode in PMQ's, and sales mode at other times   The problem he has is that he's inherited a nightmare but made it worse, and anything he says just puts further distance between him and the masses.

Burnham speaks the language of his local fan base, but I wouldn't describe him as a decent orator, and I'm not sure what he'll offer beyond his local appeal. 

Streeting feels to be the obvious choice for me. 

[Gloucester Saint]

59 minutes ago, egg said:

Starmer is an excellent orator, but, his skills worked better in opposition where he was essentially in cross examination mode in PMQ's, and sales mode at other times   The problem he has is that he's inherited a nightmare but made it worse, and anything he says just puts further distance between him and the masses.

Burnham speaks the language of his local fan base, but I wouldn't describe him as a decent orator, and I'm not sure what he'll offer beyond his local appeal. 

Streeting feels to be the obvious choice for me. 

I don’t think Labour’s loony membership base will want Streeting though.