Jack Stephens

[SW11_Saint]

1 hour ago, Mltburger said:

They may not have played every game and **cannot be entirely held solely responsible for goals conceded**, but equally they have to shoulder **some** of the blame.

👆

[SW11_Saint]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

riiiight, and they will pay his £40-50k a week wages.

A lot of people seem to have an inside track on his contract negotiation… 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Dusic said:

Whether we like it or not he is obviously seen as a leader within the club and by the squad of players. He definitely channels it in the wrong way at times but he does have that bit of aggression that sometimes we have lacked and I believe that he is genuine in that he does care.

Forget the PL because we aren't there and if were to get there he would be a squad player at best which I am sure he knows.

For now he is the captain, and assuming THB and Bednarek go then he is probably worth a starting XI place.

If you want someone to genuinely be a leader then I can see the sense in avoiding a situation where that person has less than 12mths on their contract and potentially gets distracted.

Also lets be honest, if not JS as captain then who? Downs who had a hissy fit when he couldnt leave to a rival in January? Adam Armstrong who most want gone? Ryan Manning who most on here think isn't good enough? 

All considered its probably a year more than most would feel neccessary but hardly the madness it has been made out to be.

 

 

 

Persuade Ramsdale to stay and give it to him. 

[Osvaldorama]

FFS

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Good to have somebody who loves our club as captain. Jack will remind players it is an honour to put the red and white stripes on. It is spirit that will get us back to the premiership (where admittedly he might need to get a little less game time!)

[Lee On Solent Saint]

39 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

It’s not so much about players ‘okay in the Championship’ - they’re all (bar the obvious 3) Championship standards players, including Jack. More about leadership/galvanising when things aren’t going well. Who else does that? (Only Rambo and he’ll be off). That is of value, and I disagree it’s ‘barmy’ to retain someone who has a dressing room influence. 

I don’t see an extension for Jack as mutually exclusive from signing money. They assess things in the round. 

Are you fuckin serious? Where was his so called leadership against Leicester away last season? Easily the most winable game we had left, yet he went into fuckin hiding when the going got tough again. He's not a fuckin leader by any stretch of the imagination, just because you've been at a club the longest out of the entire squad does not make you a leader. Pointing your fuckin finger at Bruno Ferndanes does not make you a leader.

[stknowle]

1 hour ago, Dank said:

The only good thing about this news is that it's stopped the horse jokes

There’s no aspect of this that can be dressaged up as good news.

[skintsaint]

10 minutes ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

It is spirit that will get us back to the premiership (where admittedly he might need to get a little less game time!)

He might have better luck throwing a rugby ball around.

[Challenger]

Any truth in the rumour JS pulled on a pair of rubber panties prior to signing in order not to piss himself laughing ?

[SW11_Saint]

24 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Are you fuckin serious? Where was his so called leadership against Leicester away last season? Easily the most winable game we had left, yet he went into fuckin hiding when the going got tough again. He's not a fuckin leader by any stretch of the imagination, just because you've been at a club the longest out of the entire squad does not make you a leader. Pointing your fuckin finger at Bruno Ferndanes does not make you a leader.

Language Timothy…

Yes, I’m serious. We can all cherry pick games that ‘prove the rule’… and I’ve said elsewhere Jack is more than capable of having nightmare games and making howling errors. 

I won’t retread old ground but my main point was always (a) he’s a useful guy to have in the squad as we go through this next transition, and an experienced voice to help the talent coming through at CB, (b) I’m dismayed at the level of fury, ire, disrespect channelled toward a player for whom pulling on the 🔴&⚪️ shirt actually means something. 

Edited Wednesday at 20:25 by SW11_Saint

[saintant]

Look, Jack Stephens is clearly not the sharpest tool in the box. He got a red card for hair pulling and also mouthed off at officials after another deserved red. In my book this lack of awareness and intelligence mean he should be nowhere near the captaincy of our football club. The contract extension is a complete joke but is compounded by the fact that he has retained the captaincy despite his obvious shortcomings when it comes to the attributes needed to make a leader. it reflects badly on those making the decisions.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Language Timothy…

Yes, I’m serious. We can all cherry pick games that ‘prove the rule’… and I’ve said elsewhere Jack is more than capable of having nightmare games and making howling errors. 

I won’t retread old ground but my main point was always (a) he’s a useful guy to have in the squad as we go through this next transition, and an experienced voice to help the talent coming through at CB, (b) I’m dismayed at the level of fury, ire, disrespect channelled toward a player for whom pulling on the 🔴&⚪️ shirt actually means something. 

My name is not fuckin Timothy. Am sure pulling on the shirt would mean just as much to all the crowd on matchday, doesn't mean we are getting that opportunity. I'm not questiioning his committment to the club etc, just the fact that he's not good enough for where we are and hopefully where we are heading. I don't think he gets in the starting 11 let alone squad of another one of our promotion rivals. We are far too loyal to the likes of Stephens just because it's percieved that they are good guys to have around the club. I'd have hoped this attiitude had left when Martin did. As I stated previously, it should have been made clear to him at the end of last season that there wasn't going to be a contract extension, and that he was free to stay the season if he wanted, but equally the club wouldn't stand in his way if an offer was made. That way, he could have left at the end of the this coming season with a thank you. 

[Chez]

3 hours ago, West end Saints said:

I guess THB being the most experienced of those at 23 is why we need JS

Wood has played almost 100 games, Edwards 140, THB 160 plus 27 England u21 caps. Bednarek has 290 games and 69 Poland caps, Charlie Taylor has 300 games...

Just how many games/seasons does a player need before he is considered a senior player that knows what he is doing? These guys are not novices. They don't need Stephens to hold their hand.

Stephens might be older and played have more games, but so fucking what? All that matters is how good a player is, not how old or many times they have played. 

Chelsea get the right striker and keeper this summer and they challenge for the title, with or without a 30 year old centre back offering advice.

2 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

He’s probably smart enough to ask people at the club I suspect, and form an opinion based partially on other facets that will benefit the team. 

Other facets? Dressing room influence. What the fuck does that even mean or matter? The only facet that matters is how good a footballer he is and Will Still should be deciding that on what he sees in training and in matches. Besides, who remains at the club that is actually qualified to decide if he has the facets that make him worthy of a three year deal, the goalkeeping coach? 

[SW11_Saint]

51 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

My name is not fuckin Timothy. Am sure pulling on the shirt would mean just as much to all the crowd on matchday, doesn't mean we are getting that opportunity. I'm not questiioning his committment to the club etc, just the fact that he's not good enough for where we are and hopefully where we are heading. I don't think he gets in the starting 11 let alone squad of another one of our promotion rivals. We are far too loyal to the likes of Stephens just because it's percieved that they are good guys to have around the club. I'd have hoped this attiitude had left when Martin did. As I stated previously, it should have been made clear to him at the end of last season that there wasn't going to be a contract extension, and that he was free to stay the season if he wanted, but equally the club wouldn't stand in his way if an offer was made. That way, he could have left at the end of the this coming season with a thank you. 

Language Lee…😉 [it was an 80s sitcom reference but you are likely younger than me]. 

Yes, we’d all be proud to pull on the shirt, but we’re not professional player, he is. I agree he’s not good enough for where we’re going, but I’d argue he is good enough for where we are. 
 

We’re not owners, executives or managers either, and just have to trust that Parsons/Spors/Still etc have enough nous to have weighed things up and done this for a reason. Those reasons (I suspect) may not purely be just down to his ability or based on him starting every game. 
 

Two years would have been optimal imho - but it is what it is. I’m glad that he’s sticking around. 

Edited Wednesday at 21:34 by SW11_Saint

[saintant]

3 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't think he's first choice, that's why 3 years is even more weird. In our current CB setup (without selling) it has to be THB and Bednarek, and even if we sold Bednarek or THB, you'd put Edwards in ahead of Stephens.

He's still the captain and my guess is that he'll be the first name on the team sheet when the new season starts. Got to hope Will Still works out very quickly that he should not be relying on Jack Stephens. Frankly this is a mess we could have done without and has pissed off a large chunk of the fan base.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just now, SW11_Saint said:

Language Lee…😉 [it was an 80s sitcom reference but you are likely younger than me]. 

Yes, we’d all be proud to pull in the shirt, but we’re not professional player, he is. I agree he’s not good enough for where he’s going, but I’d argue he is good enough for where we are. 
 

We’re not owners, executives or managers either, and just have to trust that Parsons/Spor/Still etc have enough nous to have weighed things up and done this for a reason. Those reasons (I suspect) may not purely be just down to his ability or based on him starting every game. 
 

Two years would have been optimal imho - but it is what it is. I’m glad that he’s sticking around. 

Sorry, (I hope you see what I did there!) guess we are just going to have to disagree. We are a professional football club, as Chez says above, what does it actually benefit us to have all these seasoned pro's around the club? What did Walcott bring? Or Llanana? Still has only been here five minutes, the liklehood that he has had anything to do with this is a stretch. We just seem a club that lacks a ruthless streak when it comes to players who have been here a fair while, the same happened with McCarthy. I respect your opinion, but for me, this is a decision based on sentiment rather than actual footballing ability.

[Gloucester Saint]

9 minutes ago, saintant said:

Frankly this is a mess we could have done without and has pissed off a large chunk of the fan base.

This time around they knew it full well it was going to piss off the fanbase hence they snuck it out just after Downs signing. Known in the politics news world as the distraction strategy (see Lynton Crosby).

Look, if Dragan wants to play 18 holes with Jack Stephens and MLT at Stoneham when he visits, personally that’s up to them but I don’t see why it needed a 2 year extension to the one year Jack had left. Because there’s no logical football rationale - he was under contract already next season, the experience argument is a total red herring.

It’s Southampton Football Club, not a social club. Need a Rod Bransgrove figure to professionalise it like happened with Hampshire cricket.

Edited Wednesday at 21:05 by Gloucester Saint

[SW11_Saint]

19 minutes ago, Chez said:

Wood has played almost 100 games, Edwards 140, THB 160 plus 27 England u21 caps. Bednarek has 290 games and 69 Poland caps, Charlie Taylor has 300 games...

Just how many games/seasons does a player need before he is considered a senior player that knows what he is doing? These guys are not novices. They don't need Stephens to hold their hand.

Stephens might be older and played have more games, but so fucking what? All that matters is how good a player is, not how old or many times they have played. 

Chelsea get the right striker and keeper this summer and they challenge for the title, with or without a 30 year old centre back offering advice.

Other facets? Dressing room influence. What the fuck does that even mean or matter? The only facet that matters is how good a footballer he is and Will Still should be deciding that on what he sees in training and in matches. Besides, who remains at the club that is actually qualified to decide if he has the facets that make him worthy of a three year deal, the goalkeeping coach? 

With respect you’re missing the ‘alchemy’ that make clubs/squads work/tick. It’s not simply as binary as “how many games have they played?”. Character matters. The ability to communicate matters. Connectivity with the ethos of the club often matters. 

Franny wasn’t one of our greatest players in terms of skill, but work ethic, commitment, professionalism kept him at the club under several managers. A role model and a senior voice. 

I also remember Chris Perry joining in the twilight of his career. Never like his at Wimbledon or Spurs, but his presence and experience brought a new dimension. 

I’m confident management have thought all this through. 

[Gloucester Saint]

6 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

With respect you’re missing the ‘alchemy’ that make clubs/squads work/tick. It’s not simply as binary as “how many games have they played?”. Character matters. The ability to communicate matters. Connectivity with the ethos of the club often matters. 

Franny wasn’t one of our greatest players in terms of skill, but work ethic, commitment, professionalism kept him at the club under several managers. A role model and a senior voice. 

I also remember Chris Perry joining in the twilight of his career. Never like his at Wimbledon or Spurs, but his presence and experience brought a new dimension. 

I’m confident management have thought all this through. 

Which he could’ve just as easily have done next season under his existing contract. Birmingham, Ipswich and Wrexham weren’t knocking our door down offering him a £60k p/w contract until 2028, there was nothing to compete with. Maybe an extra year as a fringe player for emergencies in the PL or Champ squad whilst he did his badges. But there is no football or business case for a 3 year contract. 

If the club were proud of it, don’t sneak it in with a striker signing. Tinge of McCarthy’s whopping contract extension under Semmens which the club were so reticent about they didn’t even announce it,  so at least they did with this one.

Edited Wednesday at 21:20 by Gloucester Saint

[Gloucester Saint]

8 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

I’m confident management have thought all this through. 

How much of Southampton Football Club have you watched 2017-present? In particular 2022 onwards?

I think even the most happy clappies would hard pressed to have any confidence in SFC’s leadership thinking anything through properly.

[SW11_Saint]

20 minutes ago, saintant said:

He's still the captain and my guess is that he'll be the first name on the team sheet when the new season starts. Got to hope Will Still works out very quickly that he should not be relying on Jack Stephens. Frankly this is a mess we could have done without and has pissed off a large chunk of the fan base.

Won’t keep counter-arguing - but not sure it has massively pissed off that big a chunk of the fanbase off (though clearly many on here!). 

It may turn out to be the wrong decision ultimately, but I don’t see it as that BIG a decision. Given the other emerging defensive cover we have. If we’d offered Sulenana another three years I’d be marching on SMS with a pitchfork &🔥lighted torch! 

Based on nothing other than his interviews this far, I see Still as much more of a pragmatist than an ideologue (a la RM). If he isn’t performing, or other combinations are better I think he’ll go with that. We’ll see I guess. 

[SW11_Saint]

6 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Which he could’ve just as easily have done next season under his existing contract. Birmingham, Ipswich and Wrexham weren’t knocking our door down offering him a £60k p/w contract until 2028, there was nothing to compete with. Maybe an extra year as a fringe player for emergencies in the PL or Champ squad whilst he did his badges. But there is no football or business case for a 3 year contract. 

If the club were proud of it, don’t sneak it in with a striker signing. Tinge of McCarthy’s whopping contract extension under Semmens which the club were so reticent about they didn’t even announce it,  so at least they did with this one.

Yes, reasonable point. 

[Gloucester Saint]

4 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Won’t keep counter-arguing - but not sure it has massively pissed off that big a chunk of the fanbase off (though clearly many on here!).  

He had to delete his SM profiles because of the sheer volume of ‘feedback’ after the Chelsea hairpull and latest red card. Don’t agree with that FWIW, the abuse, too much of it online and it’s only a sport, but a lot of fans were furious and it’s rare that a player has to do that.

Edited Wednesday at 21:28 by Gloucester Saint

[SW11_Saint]

1 minute ago, Gloucester Saint said:

How much of Southampton Football Club have you watched 2017-present? In particular 2022 onwards?

I think even the most happy clappies would hard pressed to have any confidence in SFC’s leadership thinking anything through properly.

Season ticket holders since about 1979. And I’m not remotely ‘happy clappy’ I can assure you. 

But our leadership has changed, no? Spors the main man now, reporting into Parsons & Solak, rather than Rasmus/Kraft. Think we have to give him and Still the benefit of the doubt imho. 

[SW11_Saint]

1 minute ago, Gloucester Saint said:

He had to delete his SM profiles because of the sheer volume of ‘feedback’ after the Chelsea hairpull and latest red card. Don’t agree with that FWIW, the abuse, too much of it online and it’s only a sport, but a lot of fans were furious and it’s rare that a player has to do that.

It was daft, and I was pissed off too. I challenge that SM keyboard warriors are truly representative of the fanbase though. They’re just more vocal/‘outraged’. 

[Osvaldorama]

In my opinion he epitomises everything wrong at the club. He has been woeful for ages with a honking attitude.  Yet we throw a long contract at him.

Shoehorned into the side at the expense of a cohesive unit by Martin, which harmed us last season. 
He was also loaned out before that and we STILL renew his contract. 

I just don’t get it. He’s nowhere near good enough and his attitude has let us down over and over again. 

I thought we were supposed to have new decision makers? Off to a bad start 

Edited yesterday at 10:12 by Osvaldorama

[Gloucester Saint]

1 minute ago, SW11_Saint said:

Season ticket holders since about 1979. And I’m not remotely ‘happy clappy’ I can assure you. 

But our leadership has changed, no? Spors the main man now, reporting into Parsons & Solak, rather than Rasmus/Kraft. Think we have to give him and Still the benefit of the doubt imho. 

It has, I think the disappointment has come from a glimpse of genuine change with the impressive fees recovered for Sulemana and Onachu, and then it feels to people like it’s one foot back in the double relegation, 12 points, red cards, 0-9 past. 

I can’t speak for a whole forum but I’m just paraphrasing what I’ve read.

Hopefully Jack’s on a modest wage and he switches more into coaching under Still next season after promotion in 25/26 and it proves a storm in a teacup.

The next couple of incomings need to impress though and strengthen the first XI. Ramsdale, Fernandes, Dibling - any of those go, they need properly replacing with the best quality that will come to the Champ, even if it’s on loan. 

[StrangelyBrown]

5 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

It was daft, and I was pissed off too. I challenge that SM keyboard warriors are truly representative of the fanbase though. They’re just more vocal/‘outraged’. 

What is it that you think is great about Stephens?

He ball watches, he's poor at heading the ball, not particularly great at distributing it, frequently loses concentration, loses his head and gets himself into trouble and is a consistent part of our failures...

Even in the championship he was bang average.

[SW11_Saint]

3 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

What is it that you think is great about Stephens?

He ball watches, he's poor at heading the ball, not particularly great at distributing it, frequently loses concentration, loses his head and gets himself into trouble and is a consistent part of our failures...

Even in the championship he was bang average.

See my 25 other posts! 

[bpsaint]

7 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

In my opinion he epitomises everything wrong at the club. He has been woeful for ages with a honking attitude.  Yet we throw a long contract at him.

Shoehorned into the side at the expense of a cohesive unit by Martin. 
Loaned out and we STILL renew his contract. 
 

I just don’t get hit. He’s nowhere near good enough and his attitude has let us down over and over again. 

I thought we were supposed to have new decision makers? Off to a bad start 

Beggars belief, now we get to analyse every game next season complaining about shoehorn being in the starting XI and how many goals it’s going to cost us.

Really hoped this summers changes would see the end to average joes getting rewarded with contracts and starts. Have zero faith that the likes of Baz and Smallbone won’t be shipped off elsewhere and will still be here stinking the place out next season.

[StrangelyBrown]

7 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

See my 25 other posts! 

So purely based on character and being a good guy to have around? What utter nonsense 

[sockeye]

3 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

Have zero faith that the likes of Baz and Smallbone won’t be shipped off elsewhere and will still be here stinking the place out next season.

One of Stephens' duties is likely grooming Smallbone to take over the captaincy in 2028. He is JWP from Temu after all

[Saint Fan CaM]

I’ll admit that the club management must know better than I do, however from a supporters perspective this stinks if only for one reason - it’s rewarding failure upon failure. He’s nowhere near good enough or worthy of the Captains armband having Captained the worst Saints team for decades into relegation and yet he’ll be expecting a start every fucking game. What was the point of signing Quarshie, even if Bednarek and ABK departs? The lad is a loser.

This really does put into question the leadership of the club and I don’t want to believe this was anything other but forced onto Still because good ‘ol’ Jack the lad is a Saints stalwart. I really thought we’d be ditching the losers like Stephens, Manning and Smallbone. Nope, exhibiting soft as shit management, Saints reward failure with a new contract.

[HarvSFC]

Obviously, we have to try and put last season to the back of our minds as quickly as possible going into a new season with promotion as our aim. But, last season was so awful, I don't think any player other than the two who don't deserve to be lumbered with the rest of the shite in Ramsdale and Fernandes deserved to be offered a new contract this summer.

We didn't just get relegated, we very nearly equalled the worst Premier League points tally of all time. A record that never looked like being beaten until us last season, it's so bad. While, not only that, but this group of players won just two league matches in a 38 game season.

I just think the players need to prove themselves at the club again this season after the last before we start securing their future here. A harsher message needed to be relayed to them. Two consecutive Premier League seasons this squad has gone down without a fight and the good players are leaving at the ends of their contracts, while the mediocrity is being retained.

[Galway saint]

Different DOF but shit decisions continue to be made 

His track record as captain last season should have been the final straw but no we give him an extension 

[SW11_Saint]

1 hour ago, StrangelyBrown said:

So purely based on character and being a good guy to have around? What utter nonsense 

Clearly you didn’t bother really reading, just extrapolated what you needed to fit your perspective. Nice one. 

[SW11_Saint]

23 minutes ago, Galway saint said:

Different DOF but shit decisions continue to be made 

His track record as captain last season should have been the final straw but no we give him an extension 

What are the other ‘shit decisions’? 

[SambaMaverick]

1 hour ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I’ll admit that the club management must know better than I do, however from a supporters perspective this stinks if only for one reason - it’s rewarding failure upon failure. He’s nowhere near good enough or worthy of the Captains armband having Captained the worst Saints team for decades into relegation and yet he’ll be expecting a start every fucking game. What was the point of signing Quarshie, even if Bednarek and ABK departs? The lad is a loser.

This really does put into question the leadership of the club and I don’t want to believe this was anything other but forced onto Still because good ‘ol’ Jack the lad is a Saints stalwart. I really thought we’d be ditching the losers like Stephens, Manning and Smallbone. Nope, exhibiting soft as shit management, Saints reward failure with a new contract.

Agree apart from Manning. He didn't disgrace himself last season, I think he's got a part to play for this season only.

[vectraman]

2 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

It was daft, and I was pissed off too. I challenge that SM keyboard warriors are truly representative of the fanbase though. They’re just more vocal/‘outraged’. 

You really are his agent or brother to be so one way aligned 😡

He was part of the 2nd worst premier league team ever, conceding 80+ goals. He is one of the reasons our defence is so shite. He is mid championship level ability wise for a reason. Concentration/ability. Prem players consistently put in 7/10 games.  Jack is a 5/10 player on average in the top flight. He is one of the reasons we aren’t good enough. Yep he can put in a 7/10 every few games.  He has no consistency which is why he will never be good enough for the prem league.  
Say what you want, wearing saints on his sleeve is admirable, but not enough if you are rank average at best. We should be aiming higher, and I am disappointed that is our apparent ambition level. 
I ❤️ saints and would give 100% if I played for them. But I’m shit. Jack is mid championship level standard and we have given rank average a 3 year deal. That is noddy thinking. 
Sorry, you big him up all you like, he’s a champ average standard player, and if our aim is prem this season it is a 100% shit signing. Literally no one else would sign him. Must be a free mason thing…

Edited Wednesday at 23:51 by vectraman

[coalman]

7 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

With respect you’re missing the ‘alchemy’ that make clubs/squads work/tick. It’s not simply as binary as “how many games have they played?”. Character matters. The ability to communicate matters. Connectivity with the ethos of the club often matters. 

Whatever alchemy Saints have employed in the last 3 years I'm not sure you can argue it has made our squad work. We've turned Dragan's gold into shit. If the ethos of our club has been mediocrity then maybe. How has Jack's supposedly great communication helped us win football matches?

The fact that Jack is even in the frame to be captain is indicative of our failure to recruit or develop leaders. The fact our central defensive ranks are so poor we would consider him as a first choice centre back is indicative of our abject recruitment.

Yes, I struggle to see who else we could make captain unless Ramsdale stays but being reduced to a raft of bad options still means you end up choosing a bad option.

Edited yesterday at 04:17 by coalman

[SW11_Saint]

4 hours ago, vectraman said:

You really are his agent or brother to be so one way aligned 😡

He was part of the 2nd worst premier league team ever, conceding 80+ goals. He is one of the reasons our defence is so shite. He is mid championship level ability wise for a reason. Concentration/ability. Prem players consistently put in 7/10 games.  Jack is a 5/10 player on average in the top flight. He is one of the reasons we aren’t good enough. Yep he can put in a 7/10 every few games.  He has no consistency which is why he will never be good enough for the prem league.  
Say what you want, wearing saints on his sleeve is admirable, but not enough if you are rank average at best. We should be aiming higher, and I am disappointed that is our apparent ambition level. 
I ❤️ saints and would give 100% if I played for them. But I’m shit. Jack is mid championship level standard and we have given rank average a 3 year deal. That is noddy thinking. 
Sorry, you big him up all you like, he’s a champ average standard player, and if our aim is prem this season it is a 100% shit signing. Literally no one else would sign him. Must be a free mason thing…

If you read my comments, and there are plenty, other than heart/fight etc. (which I also acknowledge wasn’t apparent in every game  last season either), I have not particularly ‘bigged him up’ in terms of his abilities - he has limitations, we all know that. 

What I have consistently said is:

(1) That I think he is a useful SQUAD player to have around, given he’s experience and his clear leadership role within the group. The players appear to like and respect him, he has an air of authority, and I think he’s a decent role model for our young CBs coming through. I’d prefer a back 3 (if WS goes that way) of THB (if he stays) + Wood + one of Ronnie/Quarshie. Having Jack around / on the bench wouldn’t worry me in the slightest though. 

Talking of THB* I wonder if there will be the same level of mass hysteria if he stays/signs again, given he was regularly godawful last season and played 34/38 games to Jack’s 19(2)/38 (therefore you could reasonably argue he has greater claim to being “one of the reasons our defence is so shite.”)?

[*For the record I like THB too, and don’t bear a grudge - I think last season just did no one in our squad any favours]. 

(2) My main gripe however is the total and utter lack of respect from some fans towards Jack. Nasty, spiteful, personal stuff. Even if you think a player isn’t great, at least be somewhat civil/analytical about it (this is a general point btw - not aimed at you!). 

Added to this, this is someone who has been at the club since he was 16, and despite often being a mere squad player (regardless of perceived ability) has always given his all, and clearly gives a shit about the club, the fans, and the City (ref again his post-match Wembley interview), it just compounds the insult for me. Whatever your feelings on him as a player, he deserves more than that. I guess it sadly just the world we live in now though *sigh*
 

I’m sure one of the brave keyboard warriors (again, not aimed at you!), will happily want to stand up at the next Fans Forum, look Jack squarely in the eye, and tell him how “fucking shit” he is and how he should have “done one” this season…😉

 

 

 

 

 

[SW11_Saint]

50 minutes ago, coalman said:

Whatever alchemy Saints have employed in the last 3 years I'm not sure you can argue it has made our squad work. We've turned Dragan's gold into shit. If the ethos of our club has been mediocrity then maybe. How has Jack's supposedly great communication helped us win football matches?

The fact that Jack is even in the frame to be captain is indicative of our failure to recruit or develop leaders. The fact our central defensive ranks are so poor we would consider him as a first choice centre back is indicative of our abject recruitment.

Yes, I struggle to see who else we could make captain unless Ramsdale stays but being reduced to a raft of bad options still means you end up choosing a bad option.

Lots I agree with here. You’re absolutely right - SR couldn’t have made more of a Horlicks of their two PL seasons if they had tried. Desperate.

I’d argue few players, let alone our ramshackle cohort of Championship journeymen, could apply Martin’s ‘total (walking) football’ philosophy or Juric’s ‘whatever TF that was’ approach in the PL with any degree of success. Jack’s communicative abilities don’t appears to be the main issue in this for me though (19/38 games and played as a bizarre MF libero often by RM let’s not forget). He certainly didn’t cover himself in glory, but nor did anyone else bar Matty, Rambo (and occasionally Dibling & KWP). That Jack is ‘poster boy’ (literally) is absolutely a sad indictment, but that’s again on SR, not him. 

Re. the captaincy, spot on… if not Jack then who? Rambo the only other candidate but he’ll be off (and I’m not a big fan of goalie captains). I’d actually give it to THB is he stays… encourage him to step up a bit. 

Edited yesterday at 05:04 by SW11_Saint

[StrangelyBrown]

6 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

Clearly you didn’t bother really reading, just extrapolated what you needed to fit your perspective. Nice one. 

Please tell me what you see in him as a footballer - I genuinely couldn't find anything other than you waffling on about character and experience?

[chivvy]

I've woken up still fuming .. lol 

[SW11_Saint]

4 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Please tell me what you see in him as a footballer - I genuinely couldn't find anything other than you waffling on about character and experience?

Again, I’m it going to regurgitate… 

The post above summarises my key points. Jack is a Championship player, we’re in the Championship. He’s adequate at that level, and not being forced to play tippy-happy. Personally I’d have him as a squad player, rather than a starter, but sounds like Still ma ly have other ideas. We’ll have to see. 

Looking forward to your question at the next Fans Forum already…

 

 

[Chez]

8 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

With respect you’re missing the ‘alchemy’ that make clubs/squads work/tick. It’s not simply as binary as “how many games have they played?”. Character matters. The ability to communicate matters. Connectivity with the ethos of the club often matters. 

Franny wasn’t one of our greatest players in terms of skill, but work ethic, commitment, professionalism kept him at the club under several managers. A role model and a senior voice. 

I also remember Chris Perry joining in the twilight of his career. Never like his at Wimbledon or Spurs, but his presence and experience brought a new dimension. 

I’m confident management have thought all this through. 

Franny was a poor player too. We should have let him go years before we did. Part of the reason we struggled for many years was having players of his ability.

Chris Fucking Perry. One of the shittest signings we have made imo. Small centre back that was central to our struggles.

You have basically made my point for me. Two players with lots of experience, but outweighed by their weaknesses on the pitch.

[SW11_Saint]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

Franny was a poor player too. We should have let him go years before we did. Part of the reason we struggled for many years was having players of his ability.

Chris Fucking Perry. One of the shittest signings we have made imo. Small centre back that was central to our struggles.

You have basically made my point for me. Two players with lots of experience, but outweighed by their weaknesses on the pitch.

So would you rate Franny as a net asset to the club or not? 

I’ll disagree on Perry - always disliked him as an opponent - but recall him scything an attacker down when free and in on goal, taking one for the team and avoiding a certain goal.  Remember thinking it was nous & gamesmanship that we lacked. Like many smaller CBs he read the game well, knew where to be to make the block/interception etc. Let’s not forget he was 35 when he joined us too. 

[Whitey Grandad]

13 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

It's very much reminiscent of the Fraser renewal, and then a second renewal the summer after. It did us no good as we were lumbered with a highly paid player who didn't actually play for us in his final years. Cost the club millions.

I'm really not sure what the motivating factors are on this. It's perplexed me.

Sometimes it's done as a favour to the player.

[aintforever]

A decent back up option to have at the club, I don't see the issue.

Some people seem to forget what League we are in now.

[SW11_Saint]

4 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Sometimes it's done as a favour to the player.

I have no inside information, but do wonder if there’s a bit of a quid pro quo potentially, ie a lower salary for the benefit/security of a longer deal?