Will Still

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

This is just complete and utter bollocks. The only thing that matters in football is getting the round thing in the net and stopping said round thing from getting into your net. For this, you need a good forward and a good keeper, both of which this club has lacked bar one season since SR took over. I don't need fucking stats to tell me that. Expected goals per game? Fuck off

I think you’ve quoted the wrong post or read the wrong words

[CamSaint]

Interesting comparisons:

1. Coventry sacked Mark Robins on 7th November last year - they were 17th with 15 points from 14 games (very similar to Saints' current return). Lampard was appointed on 28th November, by which point Coventry were still 17th, but now had 17 points from 17 games. Under Lampard, Coventry finished in the play-offs (5th) with 69 points. 

2. Luton left it later, not sacking Rob Edwards until 9th January this year - they were 20th with 25 points from 26 games (by this stage, Coventry under Lampard were still only 16th with 29 points from 26 games). Matt Bloomfield replaced Edwards on 14th January and Luton went on to be relegated on goal difference, finishing on 49 points.

Two completely different sides of the coin. Don't know how enamoured Coventry fans were initially with Lampard's appointment, but clearly it worked.  Also interesting that both of the sacked managers are doing well so far this season with their new clubs: Edwards currently 2nd with Middlesborough & Robins 5th with Stoke.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I’ve absolutely no doubt the players don’t respect this bloke, and that’s fatal. Forget what they say, performances show they don’t. Managers have to earn respect, regardless of who you are, Manchester City players evidently took the piss out of Bally, and he was a great player and a World Cup winner. The only way this nobody gets respect is by putting on decent sessions, talking sense, and tactically showing he knows what he’s doing. You can’t tell me the players don’t think his substitution yesterday was a car crash, deep down I bet even Jack feels the same. This looks like Nathan Jones level of players buy in, personally I think they aren’t having him. He’s got zero experience to dig himself out of this hole. Time for a change. 

Edited 21 hours ago by Lord Duckhunter

[Lee On Solent Saint]

8 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I think you’ve quoted the wrong post or read the wrong words

My Intention was to post that stats like expected anything in football are meaningless. Either we as a club are putting too much faith in these stats or the so called statistics experts are shit at the job. 

[Wade Garrett]

2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

My Intention was to post that stats like expected anything in football are meaningless. Either we as a club are putting too much faith in these stats or the so called statistics experts are shit at the job. 

Not either, probably both.

[Fabrice29]

1 minute ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

My Intention was to post that stats like expected anything in football are meaningless. Either we as a club are putting too much faith in these stats or the so called statistics experts are shit at the job. 

Yeah so like I said people deliberately choose not to understand XG and an incredibly basic point about it won’t appease those people. Not sure at any point did I try and endorse our team, club or approach in that post. But thanks for replying anyway.

[DT]

What the hell is the club waiting for? Should have been gone this morning. We’re going down if we delay any longer. The players clearly haven’t bought him - or can see through his bullshit, as many are now starting to do on here. Finally.

[Fabrice29]

4 minutes ago, DT said:

What the hell is the club waiting for? Should have been gone this morning. We’re going down if we delay any longer. The players clearly haven’t bought him - or can see through his bullshit, as many are now starting to do on here. Finally.

Out of interest, what is it about the 4  managers we’ve had this year that makes you think a 5th one is going to suddenly get an improvement? 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

2 hours ago, LiberalCommunist said:

I'm not sure he has lost the dressing room, but they definitely have not bought into his philosophy/tactics.

But that's because they don't know what it is.

I vaguely recall he said at the beginning of the season he would let the players express themselves. Well, I'm pretty sure Azaz didn't say I'll play so deep I want to pick up the ball on our penalty area, and Fellows probably didn't put his hand up and ask to play wing back.

In fact, what are his tactics? It just looks a mess.

[tdmickey3]

Just now, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

But that's because they don't know what it is.

I vaguely recall he said at the beginning of the season he would let the players express themselves. Well, I'm pretty sure Azaz didn't say I'll play so deep I want to pick up the ball on our penalty area, and Fellows probably didn't put his hand up and ask to play wing back.

In fact, what are his tactics? It just looks a mess.

It is a mess

[LGTL]

3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Out of interest, what is it about the 4  managers we’ve had this year that makes you think a 5th one is going to suddenly get an improvement? 

Play enough cards and eventually you’ll get a winning hand. 

Unfortunately for us, Sports Republic are the ones playing. 

[BarberSaint]

People do realise that even if you buy into x.G. whatever fully, it's still only got the value of speculation, right? I.e it's the same as you down the pub after 10 pints, but sounds sexier?

[Toadhall Saint]

5 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

It is a mess

A big steaming one

[benjii]

7 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Out of interest, what is it about the 4  managers we’ve had this year that makes you think a 5th one is going to suddenly get an improvement? 

He'll be the only one apart from Ginger Juric to be managing one of the best squads in the division. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

21 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Yeah so like I said people deliberately choose not to understand XG and an incredibly basic point about it won’t appease those people. Not sure at any point did I try and endorse our team, club or approach in that post. But thanks for replying anyway.

I understand it perfectly. Its my opinion that too much stock is afforded it. You have a different opinion. That's fine. 

[Fabrice29]

4 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I understand it perfectly. Its my opinion that too much stock is afforded it. You have a different opinion. That's fine. 

Do I? 

Pretty sure my post was just an incredibly basic explanation of it for people who didn’t understand it but I’m happy to be pointed in the direction where I’ve concluded that either the right amount of stock or not enough stock has been afforded in it during the post. 

Edited 20 hours ago by Fabrice29

[Wade Garrett]

18 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Out of interest, what is it about the 4  managers we’ve had this year that makes you think a 5th one is going to suddenly get an improvement? 

Still out to fucking annoy people then.

[Fabrice29]

11 minutes ago, benjii said:

He'll be the only one apart from Ginger Juric to be managing one of the best squads in the division. 

Fair point and we absolutely should be better but we’re not the only ones underperforming with good squads for this league. Leicester and Ipswich, one of those with a manager who I assume people would want here, are also underperforming and as usual are slightly better than us. Sheffield United despite bringing backs ‘experienced championship manager’ aren’t much better for it. I can’t agree that a manager is solely responsible for our form right now. Think underperforming players should take the brunt of the fault and a manager should be given more than just one window to solve those issues. At what point do we actually give a manager some time to ride out the bad moments at this club? Or do we just keep sacking them after some bad form each season?

[benjii]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Fair point and we absolutely should be better but we’re not the only ones underperforming with good squads for this league. Leicester and Ipswich, one of those with a manager who I assume people would want here, are also underperforming and as usual are slightly better than us. Sheffield United despite bringing backs ‘experienced championship manager’ aren’t much better for it. I can’t agree that a manager is solely responsible for our form right now. Think underperforming players should take the brunt of the fault and a manager should be given more than just one window to solve those issues. At what point do we actually give a manager some time to ride out the bad moments at this club? Or do we just keep sacking them after some bad form each season?

I would agree with this if Still actually showed signs of competence or progress, but he doesn't.

He looks like someone who is unsure of what he's doing and can't communicate a clear plan to the players. 

And the idea that we have a persistent core of bad players that need dealing with is undermined by leaving new, expensive, signings on the bench, and leaving our own youngsters out, because he's too one dimensional and clueless to form any sort of tactical plan other than hoping for an overlap and getting it in the mixer.

[Badger]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ve absolutely no doubt the players don’t respect this bloke, and that’s fatal. Forget what they say, performances show they don’t. Managers have to earn respect, regardless of who you are, Manchester City players evidently took the piss out of Bally, and he was a great player and a World Cup winner. The only way this nobody gets respect is by putting on decent sessions, talking sense, and tactically showing he knows what he’s doing. You can’t tell me the players don’t think his substitution yesterday was a car crash, deep down I bet even Jack feels the same. This looks like Nathan Jones level of players buy in, personally I think they aren’t having him. He’s got zero experience to dig himself out of this hole. Time for a change. 

It was so predictable that players aren’t going to respect a coach who hasn’t played the game at any level. Can’t believe Spors, Rasmus & Co didn’t see it coming.

What planet are they on ? 
 

Feel sorry for Still but clearly out of his depth from the outset. 

[Fabrice29]

10 minutes ago, benjii said:

I would agree with this if Still actually showed signs of competence or progress, but he doesn't.

He looks like someone who is unsure of what he's doing and can't communicate a clear plan to the players. 

And the idea that we have a persistent core of bad players that need dealing with is undermined by leaving new, expensive, signings on the bench, and leaving our own youngsters out, because he's too one dimensional and clueless to form any sort of tactical plan other than hoping for an overlap and getting it in the mixer.

I would agree and disagree with this in some aspects. Think you’ve made some fair points regarding selections and the amount of changes made but would also argue that if we had finished all of those one on ones yesterday that people could legit argue that would have shown a different tactical plan than overlaps and getting it in the mixer. That’s where he’s let down by the outcome of his finishers. 

But, this is what happens when managers who pride themselves on results and sell themselves as adaptable and pragmatic, lose matches. They’ve got nothing else to point to because they’ve specifically asked to be judged on nothing else. He’s not done himself any favours when he’s first joined and subtly played to the crowd by dismissing Martins credibility here. And in line with your other thread, I hope people are seeing that actually he did a decent job here, in this league and scoring goals and winning matches isn’t something we should take for granted.

I get the frustration at Still but still can’t quite agree that a new manager suddenly gets our attackers to be efficient or our defence to stop doing stupid stuff. I’d like to see us address that properly over some transfer windows first.

[Wade Garrett]

30 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Fair point and we absolutely should be better but we’re not the only ones underperforming with good squads for this league. Leicester and Ipswich, one of those with a manager who I assume people would want here, are also underperforming and as usual are slightly better than us. Sheffield United despite bringing backs ‘experienced championship manager’ aren’t much better for it. I can’t agree that a manager is solely responsible for our form right now. Think underperforming players should take the brunt of the fault and a manager should be given more than just one window to solve those issues. At what point do we actually give a manager some time to ride out the bad moments at this club? Or do we just keep sacking them after some bad form each season?

Fair point but we have Will Still, who is to football managers what Lee Todd and Scott Marshall were to footballers, complete shit.

It is pretty evident he doesn’t know what he’s doing and SR just need to hold their hands up and admit they fucked up even more than usual.

There is no positive to giving him more time.  Things will just get worse and a lot more toxic.

[saintstowin]

There is underperforming and there is what's happening with us at the moment. 

Individual mistakes, individual should do better theres - do not explain a run of form from the very first game of the season. Yesterday was (hopefully) the pinnacle but the gaps, the lack of a plan, the odd decisions have been ever present.

I reckon every team could find a statistic that shows in time it might be different. 

We (well SR) have mucked up recruitment of players and managers but they are going to have to try again. Former failures isn't a reason to stick.

[Fabrice29]

5 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Fair point but we have Will Still, who is to football managers what Lee Todd and Scott Marshall were to footballers, complete shit.

It is pretty evident he doesn’t know what he’s doing and SR just need to hold their hands up and admit they fucked up even more than usual.

There is no positive to giving him more time.  Things will just get worse and a lot more toxic.

I could probably find the exact same post you made about Nathan Jones for example who I think is currently sitting 6th in our league? Sometimes, people aren't complete shit, or not knowing what they are doing but instead results just aren't going right and time might change that rather than changing manager again. 

[Badger]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I could probably find the exact same post you made about Nathan Jones for example who I think is currently sitting 6th in our league? Sometimes, people aren't complete shit, or not knowing what they are doing but instead results just aren't going right and time might change that rather than changing manager again. 

Jones was clearly out of his depth in the EPL (wrong person, wrong club, wrong time). He had to go back to L1 to rebuild a club in his image, and bring them back up as his team. He wasn’t going to get that luxury at Saints.

Ditto for Still except we’re in the Championship. Not to say he can’t rebuild his career but it was a ridiculous gamble for us. 

[saints-til-i-die]

3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I could probably find the exact same post you made about Nathan Jones for example who I think is currently sitting 6th in our league? Sometimes, people aren't complete shit, or not knowing what they are doing but instead results just aren't going right and time might change that rather than changing manager again. 

The issue occurs when managers don’t match the players. Jones was rubbish because he tried to force a style on players not suited to it. The same for Juric. Russell was able to sign players more suitable for this style. Supposedly so has Will Still. I think you can judge someone who’s had a transfer window and pre season more harshly than someone who hasn’t.

If.. but more likely when he’s replaced we have to stick to the style of play we want - energy and pressing. We can’t switch again. 

 

[Wade Garrett]

7 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I could probably find the exact same post you made about Nathan Jones for example who I think is currently sitting 6th in our league? Sometimes, people aren't complete shit, or not knowing what they are doing but instead results just aren't going right and time might change that rather than changing manager again. 

Championship is his level.  Dreadful Premier League manager.

[washsaint]

22 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I would agree and disagree with this in some aspects. Think you’ve made some fair points regarding selections and the amount of changes made but would also argue that if we had finished all of those one on ones yesterday that people could legit argue that would have shown a different tactical plan than overlaps and getting it in the mixer. That’s where he’s let down by the outcome of his finishers. 

But, this is what happens when managers who pride themselves on results and sell themselves as adaptable and pragmatic, lose matches. They’ve got nothing else to point to because they’ve specifically asked to be judged on nothing else. He’s not done himself any favours when he’s first joined and subtly played to the crowd by dismissing Martins credibility here. And in line with your other thread, I hope people are seeing that actually he did a decent job here, in this league and scoring goals and winning matches isn’t something we should take for granted.

I get the frustration at Still but still can’t quite agree that a new manager suddenly gets our attackers to be efficient or our defence to stop doing stupid stuff. I’d like to see us address that properly over some transfer windows first.

Sorry but can't agree with this but understand where you're coming from.

I was prepared to give STill some time until yesterday - but his absolutely insane substitutions (not for the first time) tipped me over the edge.  He appears to be so defensive and timid, that must get through to the players: bringing on Stephens for Scienza was ludicrous.

Likewise our best player early season (Robinson) gets dropped and given 5-10 minutes (at best) when we're in turmoil.  Sesay (who impressed pre-season) plays a big role pre-season only to drop off the face of the earth.  Dom Ballard (who scores goals for fun) not retained (even as a backup) and instead we are left with the donkey Downs.

HIs defensive, scared, timid nature was in full evdence yesterday.  Taking ARcher off and bringing Fraser on when you had 2 strikers (if you can count Downs as a striker) on the bench.  Every time, his subs make us weaker and put us on the backfoot.

Good leaders inspire - I honestly don;t see how Still can inspire based on his press conferences and interviews (and Adam Blackmore said something similar yesterday).

We are not going to improve with Still at the helm - I would willingly take Adkins/Hassenhuttl until the end of the season to bring back a bit of the feel good factor to the club and to inject some positivity and inspiration.

[saints-til-i-die]

He’s very Moyes at Man Utd. He has the mentality of a small club manager. Moyes didn’t have the nerve to go for it in games and neither does he. How many CB did we have at one point? 4? 6 defenders? 

[Willo of Whiteley]

1 hour ago, DT said:

What the hell is the club waiting for? Should have been gone this morning. We’re going down if we delay any longer. The players clearly haven’t bought him - or can see through his bullshit, as many are now starting to do on here. Finally.

I mean you were against him becoming manager in the first place. What hope is there for a manager if people don’t give him a chance in the first place.

[Willo of Whiteley]

He’s got Fellows at RW. Azaz AM. Jander CM. Jelert and Roerslev RB. Scienza LW.

I don’t see how he fails to pick a straightforward 4-3-3 that fits to the players strengths.

This is where Will Still is at fault. The signings are on someone else.

If he doesn’t change the formation then there’s no point him being here because he’ll continue to not play to their strengths.

[Saint86]

18 minutes ago, washsaint said:

Sorry but can't agree with this but understand where you're coming from.

I was prepared to give STill some time until yesterday - but his absolutely insane substitutions (not for the first time) tipped me over the edge.  He appears to be so defensive and timid, that must get through to the players: bringing on Stephens for Scienza was ludicrous.

Likewise our best player early season (Robinson) gets dropped and given 5-10 minutes (at best) when we're in turmoil.  Sesay (who impressed pre-season) plays a big role pre-season only to drop off the face of the earth.  Dom Ballard (who scores goals for fun) not retained (even as a backup) and instead we are left with the donkey Downs.

HIs defensive, scared, timid nature was in full evdence yesterday.  Taking ARcher off and bringing Fraser on when you had 2 strikers (if you can count Downs as a striker) on the bench.  Every time, his subs make us weaker and put us on the backfoot.

Good leaders inspire - I honestly don;t see how Still can inspire based on his press conferences and interviews (and Adam Blackmore said something similar yesterday).

We are not going to improve with Still at the helm - I would willingly take Adkins/Hassenhuttl until the end of the season to bring back a bit of the feel good factor to the club and to inject some positivity and inspiration.

I love Adkins and what he gave the club and the bond he has with the fans. But people need to be real here - he cannot come back and do a job for where we are right now - he has done very little since he left us and he simply wouldn't command the respect of these players.

Ralph maybe could come back in, but I think he is probably a spent force (and I loved Ralph as well).

[Saint86]

Just now, Willo of Whiteley said:

He’s got Fellows at RW. Azaz AM. Jander CM. Jelert and Roerslev RB. Scienza LW.

I don’t see how he fails to pick a straightforward 4-3-3 that fits to the players strengths.

Honestly, spors has done a great job with these players on the recruitment front. Weaknesses remain in CF and GK though - perhaps a degree of realism over how much can be achieved over a summer as I think spors has shown enough for me that he can deliver. Sadly though, I think he's ballsed up the manager recruitment.

[Willo of Whiteley]

I’ve waited to see a 4-3-3 for a month.

I went to the Middlesbrough game a month ago and honestly thought today is the day we’ll see it. And it just hasn’t happened.

Time is running out.

But I think he’ll still be here at Christmas.

[Badger]

1 minute ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

But I think he’ll still be here at Christmas.

Shame a lot of the fans won’t be as well then. 

[Willo of Whiteley]

Just now, Badger said:

Shame a lot of the fans won’t be as well then. 

I’ve said before I only go sporadically.

I won’t go again for a while, unless someone is paying for the ticket for me and there is a promise of an Indian afterwards in town.

[Master Bates]

What role is Bob Bradley gonna have?

[Suhari]

9 minutes ago, Master Bates said:

What role is Bob Bradley gonna have?

Is he joining us?

[Zorba]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

Still out to fucking annoy people then.

Still fucking annoys me! 

 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

22 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

I love Adkins and what he gave the club and the bond he has with the fans. But people need to be real here - he cannot come back and do a job for where we are right now - he has done very little since he left us and he simply wouldn't command the respect of these players.

Ralph maybe could come back in, but I think he is probably a spent force (and I loved Ralph as well).

My two favourite managers of recent times as well. Still remember that Christmas Hassenhutl song at Villa. Good times.

I know it's not always good to return to a former club but where's Moyes at the moment? At Bristol last week, there was murmurings that Ralph was watching the game. A poster mentioned he is good friends with the manager of Bristol City. Ralph was also manager at RB Leipzig when Spors was a scout there.

Any chance Spors invited Ralph to watch the game?

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Badger said:

I was shouted down by some happy clappers for suggesting his inexperience meant he would be out of his depth. 
 

We needed someone with experience of the English game. Not someone who's learning on the job. At the current rate of progress it's going to take at least two seasons before he has a clue about what he's doing. 

[Saint_clark]

2 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

This is just complete and utter bollocks. The only thing that matters in football is getting the round thing in the net and stopping said round thing from getting into your net. For this, you need a good forward and a good keeper, both of which this club has lacked bar one season since SR took over. I don't need fucking stats to tell me that. Expected goals per game? Fuck off

You know when someone misses a chance and someone in the pub says "that gets scored 9 times out of 10"?

That's just another way of saying an XG of 0.9. 

[Saint_clark]

27 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Honestly, spors has done a great job with these players on the recruitment front. Weaknesses remain in CF and GK though - perhaps a degree of realism over how much can be achieved over a summer as I think spors has shown enough for me that he can deliver. Sadly though, I think he's ballsed up the manager recruitment.

They must have genuinely thought Stewart would stay fit, which makes me wonder whether someone in the medical/sports science department who signed off on his fitness reliability will be given the boot. 

[CeeBee]

25 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

I love Adkins and what he gave the club and the bond he has with the fans. But people need to be real here - he cannot come back and do a job for where we are right now - he has done very little since he left us and he simply wouldn't command the respect of these players.

Ralph maybe could come back in, but I think he is probably a spent force (and I loved Ralph as well).

Adkins would at least know how to set up a team with players in their correct positions. Ditto Ralph. Most of the posters on this site could do that as well.

How can our best player early season Robinson, not get any game time?  Criminal.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

You know when someone misses a chance and someone in the pub says "that gets scored 9 times out of 10"?

That's just another way of saying an XG of 0.9. 

And both ways of saying it are wrong. 

[Saint_clark]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

And both ways of saying it are wrong. 

What is the way you'd verbalise an historical 90% (or any other percentage) conversion rate of a specific type of chance then? 

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

What is the way you'd verbalise an historical 90% (or any other percentage) conversion rate of a specific type of chance then? 

No chance is ever 90%.

Back in the day it used to be considered that only one in six chances as ever converted. And that was in the top flight.

[Saint_clark]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

No chance is ever 90%.

Back in the day it used to be considered that only one in six chances as ever converted. And that was in the top flight.

 

2 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

What is the way you'd verbalise an historical 90% (or any other percentage) conversion rate of a specific type of chance then? 

I used 90% as an example because that's what you hear people saying, even though as you said it's nonsense. XG has shown us that. 

[qwertyell]

25 minutes ago, Master Bates said:

What role is Bob Bradley gonna have?

Specialist American to help Downs settle in by shooting guns, wang on about jesus, and mainline high fructose corn syrup.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, Saint_clark said:

 

I used 90% as an example because that's what you hear people saying, even though as you said it's nonsense. XG has shown us that. 

Agreed.