Southampton 0-2 Preston - Match Thread

[Appy]

Quickest I saw Harwood-Bellis move yesterday was when he went straight down the tunnel at full time, wanker. 
 

Another point, there’s no way all of these managers we appoint are as bad as they show here, they just can’t be, there’s something inherently wrong at this place. 

[Gloucester Saint]

2 minutes ago, Appy said:

Quickest I saw Harwood-Bellis move yesterday was when he went straight down the tunnel at full time, wanker. 
 

Another point, there’s no way all of these managers we appoint are as bad as they show here, they just can’t be, there’s something inherently wrong at this place. 

It has been since Pellegrino, that season was awful as well and where the club started to feel like a corporate soulless entity I didn’t recognise. Being taken over by a character who couldn’t pass FAPP probably contributed to that. Ralph lifted the club, reinventing JWP, plus Reed getting lucky on Ings and KWP stopped the rot for a while but it was only ever a couple of moments from going downhill again plus we had the 9-0s.

SR have put the accelerator on towards Beachy Head, but the direction/lack of was already there. Nearly a decade now since top 6 PL, Europe, cup finals and pretty much decline since then with at least a plateau period thanks to Ralph.

[St Louis]

5 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Reed getting lucky on Ings and KWP stopped the rot for a while

Interested as to why you think Reed ‘got lucky’ with those signings? For me, it’s obvious we need to also be signing proven established players like those two during transfer windows. I’d say that signing those two, and them hitting the ground running and performing to a decent level, wasn’t ‘lucky’ at all, the complete opposite. 

Edited 8 hours ago by St Louis

[Gloucester Saint]

6 minutes ago, St Louis said:

Interested as to why you think Reed ‘got lucky’ with those signings? For me, it’s obvious we need to also be signing proven established players like those two during transfer windows. I’d say that signing those two wasn’t ‘lucky’ at all, the complete opposite. 

Ings was a major risk with his knees but paid off staggeringly so well done Les on that one. Bar Stu, pity about the other £85m of the VVD fee he wasted including Carrillo….Unlike Stewart, at least Danny didn’t have a bad injury at the time we signed him. 

KWP didn’t look up to much before Covid on loan but came into his own over Project Re-Start. Unlike Ings who had been at Liverpool and scored for Burnley, I wouldn’t have called Kyle established at PL level at that point. But those two are the best signings we’ve made over the last decade amongst an ocean of mainly dross.

Edited 8 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[BarberSaint]

9 minutes ago, St Louis said:

Interested as to why you think Reed ‘got lucky’ with those signings? For me, it’s obvious we need to also be signing proven established players like those two during transfer windows. I’d say that signing those two, and them hitting the ground running and performing to a decent level, wasn’t ‘lucky’ at all, the complete opposite. 

Ings was never 'proven' (presume he's a loaf of some sort) but was someone who had demonstrated ability and a knack of being knackered. The gamble was on his fitness as much as anything and I think Covid helped a lot (him as well as us as we probably didn't quite down tools mentally as many seemed to have done).

[Mboto Gorge]

25 minutes ago, Appy said:

Quickest I saw Harwood-Bellis move yesterday was when he went straight down the tunnel at full time, wanker. 
 

Another point, there’s no way all of these managers we appoint are as bad as they show here, they just can’t be, there’s something inherently wrong at this place. 

Indeed. This club is toxic and it’s 100% down to these cretinous owners. The entire set up of the club is an absolute shambles . They need to be given a rough ride

[Gloucester Saint]

4 minutes ago, BarberSaint said:

Ings was never 'proven' (presume he's a loaf of some sort) but was someone who had demonstrated ability and a knack of being knackered. The gamble was on his fitness as much as anything and I think Covid helped a lot (him as well as us as we probably didn't quite down tools mentally as many seemed to have done).

Danny apparently doesn’t like Ralph but as typical for players, he probably can’t see that the fitness work during the lockdowns got him fitter than he’d been for years and boy did it yield results. Danny Ings is in my top 25 Saints players as a result, superb, reminded me of one of my boyhood heroes Steve Moran and that’s some compliment to him, Ralph and the back room team.

Edited 7 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[Hodgey]

Went yesterday and thought I’d wait to post. The most concerning thing was we are simply doing the same thing so teams know how to beat us, and that thing isn’t exactly threatening in the first place. These teams we are playing are just average, Preston played some tidy stuff but they are clearly a limited squad, however they are very well coached.

That brings me onto Still, do we think if we swopped managers for that game the result would be the same ? Sadly I don’t so as a club we need to make a decision, we are not going up this season so do we think Still can learn enough this year to be a force next ?. If that is the thinking I guess leaving him in until Christmas makes sense, would still give an incoming manager half a season to change momentum.

Now the players. There are some basics in football every club aims for - firstly a spine, without a competent gk and cf we don’t have one. In the championship power and pace - we even acknowledged this pre-season yet Preston were far more powerful and aggressive than us. Then attitude and mental resilience - now I accept this teams confidence must be on its arse, but I look around the players and they are not encouraging each other at all, Armstrong isn’t a captain but seems to be the best we have. Then you want partnerships - pick your best partnerships (not players) and let them develop a relationship (ie cbs, fb and wg, cms etc) if you keep chopping and changing that can’t happen. Finally pick  formation that gets the best out of the players you have - I don’t believe 5-2-3 is it.

Finally i noted Preston’s best players were all on loan - it’s interesting that we decided not to go down that route. I get the history (we had to spend £50m to stay still) but ultimately the only reason we went up last time was due to those loans. For example Dobbin looked a right handful, compared to Damien Downs - should we have got him rather than spend millions on a project ?. 

The saddest thing of all was the apathy - I’ll admit I wasn’t particularly looking fwd to the game, I am a bit older now so thought it was just age, but what has been and continues to be served up on the pitch has just numbed fans. I went to the Northam bar before and I like what the club is doing - live music, quick(ish) drinks and food, footy to watch and the best atmosphere of the day !. Now if they had won or played well then people would celebrate there again post match, but it was empty (rightly so).

We have to start getting some of these big decisions right now, we could easily change momentum this year and mount a proper challenge next, but sports republic need to do much much better. That starts with finding football people who have a plan they can execute - now they did this once with Wilcox and Martin (but then decided when Wilcox left that we didn’t need a DOF in the most competitive league in the world) so it can be done. 

[warsash saint]

1 hour ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Did my bit during the Branfoot and Lowe years at the demos and marches and spent thousands - don’t even want to think about how much - watching them up and down the country. And as live a bit further away than Warsash and didn’t mind the £150-200 cost per match under Nigel, Poch, Ronakd, even Puel or Ralph, but renovating a house here ain’t cheap and I’m not spending that kind of cash every week unless I’m going to see some work rate and players who give a shit. And this house I type from which is part our pension fund does mean leisure activities have to be in some senses enjoyable. I’ve seen Saints get hit for cricket scores at times away in the 90s (Everton 99 comes to mind) but it was still a good day out with friends and affordable.

Well done to you for keeping going, respect genuinely, but it won’t get better with Still or SR, same as it wouldn’t under Branfoot or Lowe.

Your choice as to who you think can reverse this death spiral. If you believe Still and SR are the answer and you’re loyal to them then that’s your view. I just shrugged my shoulders now and laughed, no point expending emotional energy on the losers. They or the manager have no vision or purpose running the club and boy does it show. Just another ‘project’ and player trading arm. 

In a couple of years I’ll be able to watch them play Cheltenham at Whaddon Rad so there’s a silver lining, 

So you know i sat there & did nothing do you????  I was there during Branfoot, in fact been going since Keegan so don't give me the holy then thou piece please.  Have only missed Hull away this season so yeah i have had my fill this season.  I will shout at the board, manager as i please but PLEASE don't call me pathetic!!!!!

[Saint Billy]

Surely with our form continuing from what was a truly dire last season last season, we must be heading towards breaking another embarrassing record. Since those two fekin 9 goals against under Ralph the embarrassment has gone from bad to worse. I'm sure saints will find plenty more ways to inflict hurt upon it's long suffering fans.

[markr27]

Players have lost all motivation due to the lack of leadership. They want a change, and who is more likely to go?
All of them, or just the senior management team? Not the players.

By dropping Captain Jack, he tried to send a message to the players that he is the one in authority and push back, but his players seemingly have all congregated to the opposite side.

Will Still's ship is holed, his ballast tanks known as his brothers are missing, and it is slowly sinking.
 

Edited 7 hours ago by markr27

[SW11_Saint]

Reflecting, I can’t recall a more abject performance - and we have a lot to choose from. We huffed & puffed for about 20 mins with absolutely no impact whatsoever. Azaz - a ghost, Armstrong - totally anonymous, even Scienza who started brightly burnt out, and resorted to falling over a lot. We had 2 shots on target, (only one of note) in an entire game v PNE.
One thing’s for sure - it can’t carry on like this. I really wanted it to work for Will but this tanker is not turning under his watch. It’s just too big a job, and the rot is too deep, and SR really only have one card to play to keep the heat off them. If he’s not gone by the QPR game, he’ll be gone after it (another guaranteed defeat IMHO).
Another bang average side turned out at SMS, and organisation and work-rate made them look different league to us. That is on Will I’m afraid (unless he’s telling them one thing and they’re doing something totally different on the pitch). But at the end of the day, he’s a symptom of the rot under SR, not the entire problem. 

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, warsash saint said:

So you know i sat there & did nothing do you????  I was there during Branfoot, in fact been going since Keegan so don't give me the holy then thou piece please.  Have only missed Hull away this season so yeah i have had my fill this season.  I will shout at the board, manager as i please but PLEASE don't call me pathetic!!!!!

I wasn’t calling you specifically pathetic. Let’s be clear about that. And it seems like there was some good ‘feedback’ given yesterday judging by Nathan Wood’s reaction, bit disappointing at the end but can’t blame people too much given how awful most of the last 8 years have been.

The point I’m making still stands that this lot managing and running the club - that term used very loosely - don’t have clue until they either sell or recruit a DoF, CEO and manager/coaching staff who understand English football and give them autonomy. And it’s going to take a lot more days like yesterday and even more volume to do it. We are capable as a fanbase, we opposed Branfoot and Lowe respectively for years but it’s going to need to be consistent to have our club back as a football entity with its own identity that we recognise and love.

A positive example is my local club. Protested loudly against Gary Johnson, a very unpopular DoF and the board. Now got Mike Garlick owning and legend Steve Cotterill back as manager. Their equivalent of Lawrie. And they are transformed.

One of the aspects which turned Askham against Branfoot eventually being a finance man was the protests making it impossible to find a shirt sponsor. Dimplex as a local company and club guest helped out at the last minute in 93/94 to save the bacon but the gig was up.

Edited 6 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[Fabrice29]

9 minutes ago, markr27 said:

Players have lost all motivation due to the lack of leadership. They want a change, and who is more likely to go?
All of them, or just the senior management team? Not them.
 

Whilst this is true, the manager is most likely to go, at some point we are going to have to explore the other option. 

[Gloucester Saint]

4 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Whilst this is true, the manager is most likely to go, at some point we are going to have to explore the other option. 

Now that I can get behind.

[die Mannyschaft]

10 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Reflecting, I can’t recall a more abject performance - and we have a lot to choose from. We huffed & puffed for about 20 mins with absolutely no impact whatsoever. Azaz - a ghost, Armstrong - totally anonymous, even Scienza who started brightly burnt out, and resorted to falling over a lot. We had 2 shots on target, (only one of note) in an entire game v PNE.
One thing’s for sure - it can’t carry on like this. I really wanted it to work for Will but this tanker is not turning under his watch. It’s just too big a job, and the rot is too deep, and SR really only have one card to play to keep the heat off them. If he’s not gone by the QPR game, he’ll be gone after it (another guaranteed defeat IMHO).
Another bang average side turned out at SMS, and organisation and work-rate made them look different league to us. That is on Will I’m afraid (unless he’s telling them one thing and they’re doing something totally different on the pitch). But at the end of the day, he’s a symptom of the rot under SR, not the entire problem. 

When fans leave during tge game to get a beet and return 10 mins into end half then leave early aging at end that's the signal the football is really not competing with beer, chips, burger, getting train home, walking round town, reading the programme or just standing outside the ground.

[IFHP]

What was is a lot of fans were saying, “ at least in the championship we will win a few games”

[Appy]

2 minutes ago, IFHP said:

What was is a lot of fans were saying, “ at least in the championship we will win a few games”

Also “I prefer the Championship” 

 

Anyone who says that only remembers our seasons there in 11/12 and 23/24. The seasons we spent there after relegation in 2005 were largely terrible. 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Danny apparently doesn’t like Ralph but as typical for players, he probably can’t see that the fitness work during the lockdowns got him fitter than he’d been for years and boy did it yield results. Danny Ings is in my top 25 Saints players as a result, superb, reminded me of one of my boyhood heroes Steve Moran and that’s some compliment to him, Ralph and the back room team.

Also a fan of Steve Moran. The minute he appeared at the Dell as a youngster you could tell he had something about him and was destined to become a great striker for us. You can always tell straight away with young players such as Channon, Williams and Le Tiss. It's been a while since a youngster last made his debut for us and gave the vibe that he was someone special. Dibling didn't do it and is still trying to kick start things at Everton but I have doubts about him.

[Pedantic Pete]

1 hour ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Danny apparently doesn’t like Ralph but as typical for players, he probably can’t see that the fitness work during the lockdowns got him fitter than he’d been for years and boy did it yield results. Danny Ings is in my top 25 Saints players as a result, superb, reminded me of one of my boyhood heroes Steve Moran and that’s some compliment to him, Ralph and the back room team.

I find this interesting if a little off topic.. seeing as you have seen Moran then you saw the glory days.. Ings is OK but I could list , I don’t know probably 50 or 100 players I would have in front of him in that time as my top saints players. I am not criticising as it is all about opinions, it probably explains why opinions differ so much about the quality of the current squad…. Perhaps that’s my problem… Imagine comparing AA with Moran? Or  Fellows with one of the Wallace’s? Or in a comparable division D D with Lambert? Downes with Morgan? Azaz with Lallana? Edward’s or THB  with Fonte? McCarthy with Kelvin? Etc etc 
 

[Chez]

1 hour ago, Hodgey said:

 

 

Finally i noted Preston’s best players were all on loan - it’s interesting that we decided not to go down that route. I get the history (we had to spend £50m to stay still) but ultimately the only reason we went up last time was due to those loans. For example Dobbin looked a right handful, compared to Damien Downs - should we have got him rather than spend millions on a project ?. 

I never understood the policy of not loaning players. In the championship, your chances of signing premiership level players that get you promoted AND can handle it when you do are small. Almost every side challenging for promotion over the last four or five years has loaned in players. Not doing that just puts you at a disadvantage. 

[Gloucester Saint]

7 minutes ago, Pedantic Pete said:

I find this interesting if a little off topic.. seeing as you have seen Moran then you saw the glory days.. Ings is OK but I could list , I don’t know probably 50 or 100 players I would have in front of him in that time as my top saints players. I am not criticising as it is all about opinions, it probably explains why opinions differ so much about the quality of the current squad…. Perhaps that’s my problem… Imagine comparing AA with Moran? Or  Fellows with one of the Wallace’s? Or in a comparable division D D with Lambert? Downes with Morgan? Azaz with Lallana? Edward’s or THB  with Fonte? McCarthy with Kelvin? Etc etc 
 

Fair comments, but if you look at Ings’s record in poor teams v Moran’s in very, very good ones, they are impressive numbers indeed. AA was bought to replace Ings….after several weeks of Semmens and Crocker very publicly patting themselves on the back for the £35m fee received from Villa with a year of Danny’s contract left. That was a key step towards the chasm. Wallace duo (not Ray) were different gravy, explosive pace and directness. The 1984 goal v Liverpool. Kelvin is miles better than either keeper now let alone Shilts, Timmy, Beasant, Taylor, Jones, Antti…

Fonte, Hammond, Chaplow, Puncheon, Lambert - they’re more comparable as we had them in L1 and Champ. As players but most importantly characters they are x100 this current shower.

Edited 6 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[Chez]

15 hours ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

What a miserable experience it’s been supporting us for the best part of the last 10 years.

It really has. I know there are clubs much worse off than us. Teams in much lower leagues, teams that have fallen much further from grace, but what a grind. 

[Pedantic Pete]

12 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Fair comments, but if you look at Ings’s record in poor teams v Moran’s in very, very good ones, they are impressive numbers indeed. AA was bought to replace Ings….after several weeks of Semmens and Crocker very publicly patting themselves on the back for the £35m fee received from Villa with a year of Danny’s contract left. That was a key step towards the chasm. Wallace duo (not Ray) were different gravy, explosive pace and directness. The 1984 goal v Liverpool. Kelvin is miles better than either keeper now let alone Shilts, Timmy, Beasant, Taylor, Jones, Antti…

Fonte, Hammond, Chaplow, Puncheon, Lambert - they’re more comparable as we had them in L1 and Champ. As players but most importantly characters they are x100 this current shower.

Yeah true about Ings, did a good job..better than some give credit for… 

The early 80’s were something else as a Saints supporter and probably why I don’t see the Saints kit as stripes.. we had the rank xerox kit for years (didn’t swap kits every year in them days) and it was glorious.players of the quality of Keegan, Channon, Golac, Mills, Williams, Case, Worthington to name a few, 🙂 

you are right about character.. just watch our games and the other teams have at least a few players who give a shit…unlike us who have one if we are lucky…. I think Still had a point with the hard work beats talent remark…not that we have much talent but in this league if you don’t fight for it you get beat no matter how good you are. 

 

 

[SoberSaint]

The opposition don’t have to be particularly good - just organised!

[lambtiss]

26 minutes ago, SoberSaint said:

The opposition don’t have to be particularly good - just organised!

Or just turn up 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

27 minutes ago, SoberSaint said:

The opposition don’t have to be particularly good - just organised!

That is absolutely so true. Swansea were absolute gash yet we still could not beat them. I didn't think Middlesborough were anything special either. There are some proper bang average teams in this league this season, I've no doubt that a competent manager would have us top 6 no problem.

[64saint]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

It really has. I know there are clubs much worse off than us. Teams in much lower leagues, teams that have fallen much further from grace, but what a grind. 

I actually find this hard to believe. 🤔.  Didn't we finish near the bottom that season ?

Edited 4 hours ago by 64saint

[Osvaldorama]

4 hours ago, Chez said:

It really has. I know there are clubs much worse off than us. Teams in much lower leagues, teams that have fallen much further from grace, but what a grind. 

Is there anyone else that’s only won 1 home game in a year?

Even Luton won a few when they went down didn’t they? 

[Zorba]

4 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

 I've no doubt that a competent manager would have us top 6 no problem.

But who of our lot are capable of scoring the goals that get us into the top 6? Changing the manager won’t get us goals.

[die Mannyschaft]

Just been to Eastleigh v Walsall and its baffling how Saints cant play decent basic simple football like these two teams. I would definitely put Saints alongside Walsall comparing out Preston performance.  Saints have a long way to go if the club think leaque 1 is not the correct division for them.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, Zorba said:

But who of our lot are capable of scoring the goals that get us into the top 6? Changing the manager won’t get us goals.

We won't know unless we do something. Playing under this atmosphere just cannot continue. 

[Zorba]

1 minute ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

We won't know unless we do something. Playing under this atmosphere just cannot continue. 

But we have, we’ve changed the manager half a dozen times and it’s made no difference. We haven’t had a decent strike force since Ralph and that’s where this mess and lack of goals all began.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, Zorba said:

But we have, we’ve changed the manager half a dozen times and it’s made no difference. We haven’t had a decent strike force since Ralph and that’s where this mess and lack of goals all began.

Get that, but you can't have many more repeats of the atmosphere in the ground on Saturday. I can't remember the crowd ever chanting Your Not Fit To Weat The Shirt to the entire team. 

[Zorba]

Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Get that, but you can't have many more repeats of the atmosphere in the ground on Saturday. I can't remember the crowd ever chanting Your Not Fit To Weat The Shirt to the entire team. 

Agreed, but think these lot need to be told too. They are playing week in, week out against equal or lesser quality players yet never look like winning. Constantly second to every ball, no determination, bad decisions and poor execution of passes and shots. I don’t believe that’s a managerial thing, it seriously strikes me that they’re just going through the motions and only here because we offer them a fat pay check and an easy ride. There’s no connection or care for Southampton FC and most of them wish they were somewhere else.. as do I for that matter.

[die Mannyschaft]

22 minutes ago, Zorba said:

But who of our lot are capable of scoring the goals that get us into the top 6? Changing the manager won’t 

That's why its too late, how can a club play each week without 2 or 3 goal scores in line up. Any goal scorer we get in window won't score more than 10 goals as the ball won't get to then quickly due to stop ball and sideways back tactics.

The new manager will need to adopt proper football tactics.

[Stud mark of doom]

4 hours ago, 64saint said:

I actually find this hard to believe. 🤔.  Didn't we finish near the bottom that season ?

We did go top briefly, as the Newcastle game was on a Friday, but think we were 4th after the other games. 
 

it was the week after me memorably went 4-0 up at villa park in next to no time - particularly memorable for me as I watched it with a Villa supporting friend 🙂 

much happier days - although we did have a terrible run later on and finished well down the table. 

Edited 26 minutes ago by Stud mark of doom

[Zorba]

3 minutes ago, die Mannyschaft said:

That's why its too late, how can a club play each week without 2 or 3 goal scores in line up. Any goal scorer we get in window won't score more than 10 goals as the ball won't get to then quickly due to stop ball and sideways back tactics.

The new manager will need to adopt proper football tactics.

..and hopefully bring a couple of strikers with him.