Tonda Eckert

[Wade Garrett]

2 hours ago, Guan 2.0 said:

As I posted in the expelled thread: 
 

I have no doubt Saints will be under huge pressure from the media and Rival clubs to Sack Tonda. I believe this is in no small part due to the fact that we only have to finish 8th next season to reach the play-offs.

If you are involved in any championship club, ensuring that Southampton jettisons a very good manager, while simultaneously being put in a position of trying to hire anyone while radioactive to the world at large would be a number one priority. 

Given this, unless he is banned, I hope we keep Tonda.  
 

Absolute fucking madness.  He, probably alone, has put us in the shitcart.  I don’t even want a goodbye statement from him.  Just pick up your binoculars and fuck off.

No way the players will have him either.

[beatlesaint]

30 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Absolute fucking madness.  He, probably alone, has put us in the shitcart.  I don’t even want a goodbye statement from him.  Just pick up your binoculars and fuck off.

No way the players will have him either.

I hear what you are saying but we still don’t know the full facts. If the rumours out there are true then yes he has to go…..but what if they aren’t or it’s not the whole story?

As with most of this we just don’t know 100%

[Mr X]

8 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I hear what you are saying but we still don’t know the full facts. If the rumours out there are true then yes he has to go…..but what if they aren’t or it’s not the whole story?

As with most of this we just don’t know 100%

Just the fact that he admitted spying on three or four clubs is enough... Trying to say he didn't know it was wrong is laughable when the intern is hiding behind a tree, he was assistant manager at Barnsley so would know and part of the under 21 setup at a high level 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

Leeds were bigger, Bielsa had a bigger reputation. 'Pep' and 'Poch' loved him, don't forget - he taught them football. Pulling Bielsa through the ringer wouldn't have been allowed, that's why it was all laughed off and giggled about by the media journos. God forbid the media upset Pep or any high profile EPL people.

Tonda, Southampton, who cares. What we've done is a disgrace, burn the whole place down.

That bellend Henry Winter justified his change of stance which pivoted from Derby need to put up some trees in 2019 to Saints are the devil and should be burnt to the grounds on "well the rules have changed" what an absolute load of shit.

[beatlesaint]

2 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Just the fact that he admitted spying on three or four clubs is enough... Trying to say he didn't know it was wrong is laughable when the intern is hiding behind a tree, he was assistant manager at Barnsley so would know and part of the under 21 setup at a high level 

Yes,very true.

[sockeye]

Where is the club statement?

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

That bellend Henry Winter justified his change of stance which pivoted from Derby need to put up some trees in 2019 to Saints are the devil and should be burnt to the grounds on "well the rules have changed" what an absolute load of shit.

Oh yeah that guy was the worst of the worst with all this. The sheer justification in the differing responses is just stupid. Rule or not rule, it's the same crime. First time the crime is committed, laugh it off, silly billy Bielsa. Second time, now there is a rule for said crime, BURN THEM ALL.

The media have taken this club to the cleaners and I want to know why.

[S-Clarke]

Just now, sockeye said:

Where is the club statement?

On the OS.

[Hoggins]

he obviously got the team playing brilliantly so it’s a devastating shame but  let’s be honest - some of his behaviour during the season has been pretty odd and it’s unsurprising that he has orchestrated the whole thing.

 

incredible naivety.

 

 

[trousers]

If his position is untenable, wouldn't the club have sacked him by now*? Surely a quick 'win' for them in terms of getting (the majority of) fans back on board ASAP?

As such, can we read anything into the  fact that he hasn't been sacked 'immediately'...? 

(* I guess he may have already been sacked but the club are delaying the announcement for some reason)

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, trousers said:

If his position is untenable, wouldn't the club have sacked him by now*? Surely a quick 'win' for them in terms of getting (the majority of) fans back on board ASAP?

As such, can we read anything into the  fact that he hasn't been sacked 'immediately'...? 

(* I guess he may have already been sacked but the club are delaying the announcement for some reason)

Probably/possibly working out the legal wrangling as may bypass the need of a settlement, or waiting for the FA to find him personally guilty and remove him for free. 

 

[Mr X]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

If his position is untenable, wouldn't the club have sacked him by now*? Surely a quick 'win' for them in terms of getting (the majority of) fans back on board ASAP?

As such, can we read anything into the  fact that he hasn't been sacked 'immediately'...? 

(* I guess he may have already been sacked but the club are delaying the announcement for some reason)

Maybe he's tying to appeal his sacking! 😂😜🤦‍♂️

[trousers]

17 minutes ago, Turkish said:

That bellend Henry Winter justified his change of stance which pivoted from Derby need to put up some trees in 2019 to Saints are the devil and should be burnt to the grounds on "well the rules have changed" what an absolute load of shit.

Indeed... It's still the same misdemeanor regardless of the underlying rules.... All the rules do is determine the 'punishment'...

There weren't any 'rules' for murder back in caveman days... Does that mean it was 'ok' to kill your fellow humans back then...? (Yeah, I know... Other crap analogies are available, as always) 

Edited 13 hours ago by trousers

[Solentarian]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

Anyone who thinks tonda can stay and we can remain credible is completely deluded 

I really think we need to stop with this mentality. Yes, we broke the rules - but in a way that's basically insignificant compared the the industrial level cheating that football runs on. I'm sick of having to indulge the idea that what we did was a great injustice rather than a stupid but largely inconsequential breach of rules that should have been treated as such. 

It's probably too late, but it's just self-destructive to lose a promising young manager as well as the playoffs, and the penalty. If he's genuinely lost the players then we've no choice, but with hindsight we've done way too much self-flaggelation to appease a process that was rigged from the start. There's no credibility here to be had. 

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, trousers said:

If his position is untenable, wouldn't the club have sacked him by now*? Surely a quick 'win' for them in terms of getting (the majority of) fans back on board ASAP?

As such, can we read anything into the  fact that he hasn't been sacked 'immediately'...? 

(* I guess he may have already been sacked but the club are delaying the announcement for some reason)

Southampton FC move quickly? 😂

[trousers]

Just now, Turkish said:

Southampton FC move quickly? 😂

Yeah, I know, I know.... 😉

[coalman]

7 minutes ago, trousers said:

If his position is untenable, wouldn't the club have sacked him by now*? Surely a quick 'win' for them in terms of getting (the majority of) fans back on board ASAP?

As such, can we read anything into the  fact that he hasn't been sacked 'immediately'...? 

(* I guess he may have already been sacked but the club are delaying the announcement for some reason)

I would imagine there's a due process aspect to his dismissal as well if they want to minimise compensation.

Though I wouldn't rule out that we're just taking the dumbest course of action in line with previous behaviour.

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Southampton FC move quickly? 😂

We're currently calm and relaxed about the situation. Jordan Sibley is just drinking his cup of tea.

Edited 13 hours ago by S-Clarke

[Wade Garrett]

32 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I hear what you are saying but we still don’t know the full facts. If the rumours out there are true then yes he has to go…..but what if they aren’t or it’s not the whole story?

As with most of this we just don’t know 100%

We know more than enough.

[trousers]

8 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Probably/possibly working out the legal wrangling as may bypass the need of a settlement, or waiting for the FA to find him personally guilty and remove him for free. 

 

If they wanted to be seen to be acting swiftly / decisively, but can't sack him instantly, they could always announce that he's been "suspended pending further due process", couldn't they?

Edited 13 hours ago by trousers

[Wade Garrett]

8 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Probably/possibly working out the legal wrangling as may bypass the need of a settlement, or waiting for the FA to find him personally guilty and remove him for free. 

 

Surely it’s gross misconduct?

[Mr X]

4 minutes ago, Solentarian said:

I really think we need to stop with this mentality. Yes, we broke the rules - but in a way that's basically insignificant compared the the industrial level cheating that football runs on. I'm sick of having to indulge the idea that what we did was a great injustice rather than a stupid but largely inconsequential breach of rules that should have been treated as such. 

It's probably too late, but it's just self-destructive to lose a promising young manager as well as the playoffs, and the penalty. If he's genuinely lost the players then we've no choice, but with hindsight we've done way too much self-flaggelation to appease a process that was rigged from the start. There's no credibility here to be had. 

You think the players are going to want to play for him? They blame him 

[Sheaf Saint]

Just now, trousers said:

If they wanted to be seen to be acting swiftly / decisively, they could always announce that he's been "suspended pending further due process", couldn't they?

Absolutely this.

[James G]

32 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I hear what you are saying but we still don’t know the full facts. If the rumours out there are true then yes he has to go…..but what if they aren’t or it’s not the whole story?

As with most of this we just don’t know 100%

I believe it was Tonda 

I looked back at his press conference. He was scratching his nose and under his eye. There's a phenomenon known as the pinocchio effect which causes itching in those areas brought on by lying and anxiety

[Sheaf Saint]

4 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Surely it’s gross misconduct?

It is, but football manager contracts are nothing like 'normal' employment contracts. And even if they were, there would still be a clearly defined disciplinary process to follow if we want to avoid having to pay him off somehow.

Edited 13 hours ago by Sheaf Saint

[Solentarian]

1 minute ago, Mr X said:

You think the players are going to want to play for him? They blame him 

Sure, sack him for losing the players, but not for any reputation or contrition reasons. 

Its like if you got caught speeding and someone accused you of "attempted manslaughter". The right response would be to say "that's insane" not to cube your car. 

[DellBlockH]

8 minutes ago, trousers said:

Indeed... It's still the same misdemeanor regardless of the underlying rules.... All the rules do is determine the 'punishment'...

There weren't any 'rules' for murder back in caveman days... Does that mean it was 'ok' to kill your fellow humans back then...? (Yeah, I know... Other crap analogies are available, as always) 

If you're after crap analogies, here's another one.

A player makes a reckless and dangerous tackle and gets sent off and automatically banned for three matches. He made the tackle to stop a certain goal when the opposition player was clean through. This is cheating. The FA looks again at the circumstances of the foul and increases the suspension to six matches. When that is over,  would we welcome this player, who has been a vital part of our team, back into the fold? Or would we say, no, you cheated, leave our club immediately?

Is the level of cheating we're holding Tonda to account for worse than a dangerous tackle to stop a certain goal?

[CSA96]

 

[Turkish]

Just now, CSA96 said:

 

Love to be a fly on the wall, where does he even start?

[Mr X]

1 minute ago, Solentarian said:

Sure, sack him for losing the players, but not for any reputation or contrition reasons. 

Its like if you got caught speeding and someone accused you of "attempted manslaughter". The right response would be to say "that's insane" not to cube your car. 

I think you are missing the point they don't need to sack him for losing player confidence, this guy has admitted spying on several clubs as the evidence at the hearing was stacked against him and his only excuse was I didn't know I couldn't despite the spy hiding behind a tree... Despite his talents as a manager he is a liability and has let the club down on every level and potentially cost them millions.... He simply has to go 

[Solentarian]

5 minutes ago, Mr X said:

I think you are missing the point they don't need to sack him for losing player confidence, this guy has admitted spying on several clubs as the evidence at the hearing was stacked against him and his only excuse was I didn't know I couldn't despite the spy hiding behind a tree... Despite his talents as a manager he is a liability and has let the club down on every level and potentially cost them millions.... He simply has to go 

I think he is clearly a promising manager, and if the players want to work with him (big if I grant!) there is nothing to be gained by sacking him. Look at our history of appointments - what are the chances we make a good one?

I just think you're mad at the wrong person. Did he cause the EFL/Boro to act in insane and unjustifiable ways - yes. But the fault lies with the EFL/Boro for acting in insane and unjustifiable ways.

Edited 13 hours ago by Solentarian

[Sheaf Saint]

5 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Love to be a fly on the wall, 

Get Will Salt in there with his iPhone to live stream it.

[James G]

5 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

 

Just because the FA will come for him over this, I'm guessing this is the start of his exit

[saint michael]

32 minutes ago, trousers said:

If his position is untenable, wouldn't the club have sacked him by now*? Surely a quick 'win' for them in terms of getting (the majority of) fans back on board ASAP?

As such, can we read anything into the  fact that he hasn't been sacked 'immediately'...? 

(* I guess he may have already been sacked but the club are delaying the announcement for some reason)

I guess they’ve been focussed on the appeal and now the clean up begins. There probably is a due diligence process of his contract and the FA also may have started some action on things too. 

[Midfield_General]

9 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Love to be a fly on the wall, where does he even start?

"I've fucked this up, I'm sorry for letting you all down, and I've resigned"

Would be my guess

[trousers]

11 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Love to be a fly on the wall, where does he even start?

Can't do that mate, it's against the rules....

[Gloucester Saint]

14 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

 

👋 

[trousers]

23 minutes ago, DellBlockH said:

If you're after crap analogies, here's another one.

A player makes a reckless and dangerous tackle and gets sent off and automatically banned for three matches. He made the tackle to stop a certain goal when the opposition player was clean through. This is cheating. The FA looks again at the circumstances of the foul and increases the suspension to six matches. When that is over,  would we welcome this player, who has been a vital part of our team, back into the fold? Or would we say, no, you cheated, leave our club immediately?

Is the level of cheating we're holding Tonda to account for worse than a dangerous tackle to stop a certain goal?

Fair point... Aligns with these thoughts from Jason Cundy at Talksport (yeah, I know....)

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1DforbwX25/

 

Edited 12 hours ago by trousers

[Teamsaint1]

If his relationship with the players was the key element on staying or going ( a big IF) the players might usefully reflect on things like their own failures  and lack of effort under WS, and the likelihood that we might have missed out on the playoffs if TE hadn’t given them more details on opposition than we had a right to, and his ( presumably) excellent coaching and preparation.

 

None of which is to defend what he did in the slightest. 

[JWade]

He should have been sacked already and anyone even suggesting he should remain in post need to give their head a wobble. His actions will cause incomprehensible long-term damage to this club that is going to take a very, very long time to heal. 

[Whitey Grandad]

21 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Love to be a fly on the wall, where does he even start?

"Es tut mir leid"

[Pamplemousse]

Is there a plausible scenario where we suspend him pending an FA ban, and after said ban, he returns to lead the U21s again? 

Sounds ludicrous but wouldn't put it past Spors doing that

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Pamplemousse

[skintsaint]

9 minutes ago, trousers said:

Can't do that mate, it's against the rules....

It's well before 72 hours until the next game, its fine!

[skintsaint]

Just now, Pamplemousse said:

Is there a plausible scenario where we suspend him pending an FA ban, and after said ban, he returns to lead the U21s again? 

Sounds ludicrous but wouldn't put it past Spors doing that

 

Would he want that though? He has semi-proved himself as a first team manager this season so will probably go back to Germany once the ban is done.

[trousers]

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

Is there a plausible scenario where we suspend him pending an FA ban, and after said ban, he returns to lead the U21s again? 

Sounds ludicrous but wouldn't put it past Spors doing that

 

Yeah, interesting line of thought.... I wonder if any FA ban would be confined to first team activities, rather than across the board? 

Swap him and Lallana over, with Tonda pulling the strings in the background...ah... Actually, scratch that... probably flouting the rules again there! 😉

Edited 12 hours ago by trousers

[Saints4everChris]

Anyone who makes a mistake or deliberately does something that costs their employer £200m can expect to be fired. I see no alternative.

[coalman]

On the one hand it feels like a disproportionate response considering all the other cheating that goes on in the game. But, if you dive in the box you know you may get a yellow card. The punishment is well defined. In this case the last time it happened in the EFL there wasn't a rule. Choosing to be the test case of the rule was never the brightest thing. 

The rules aren't fair in terms of punishments. That's life. We broke one where the most recent punishment from FIFA was a suspension and massive sporting penalty - that precedent is probably what sunk us. If we didn't know the rule was there that's still on us. Eckert sent his analysts to gather information during the 72 hour period. It doesn't matter whether the EFL is the only league with this rule. It doesn't matter if the rule is a bit stupid given how easy it would be to spy without being completely amateur. It was his job to know this.

Yes, it's been a bit of a media led witch hunt by people who've completely changed their tune since Leeds and seem mostly indifferent to Man City and Chelsea. None of that matters in the final reckoning.

Even if he hasn't lost the dressing room (which is unlikely) Saints cannot afford the distraction of this being the story every single week we show up to play football. Yes, that means another spin (or seven) on the Sport Republic manager merry go round. We'd be crazy not to view that process with the trepidation it deserves. But, there's no way we can continue with Tonda at the helm.

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

11 minutes ago, trousers said:

Getting pissed off with this cunt. 

Did Saints do him dirty at some point or what.

[Football Special]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

That bellend Henry Winter justified his change of stance which pivoted from Derby need to put up some trees in 2019 to Saints are the devil and should be burnt to the grounds on "well the rules have changed" what an absolute load of shit.

Never forget that, if he shows his face anywhere near St Mary's fans need to let him know he's not welcome