James Ward-Prowse

[Chez]

37 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

What's in a contract and what the Club decide to enact are two different things though.  If they want to keep certain players they can easily amend the contract terms to whatever they feel the player deserves...e.g. JWP, Alcarez - amend to 0.1%, KWP, Tino, Sully - amend to 2% etc., Aribo, Diallo, Orsic, Tall Paul, Djenepo - leave well alone at 40%!

I think we might be reluctant to pay £100k in the championship. There are some pretty strict rules about how much losses we can make over the next couple of years.  

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, Chez said:

I think we might be reluctant to pay £100k in the championship. There are some pretty strict rules about how much losses we can make over the next couple of years.  

Hypothetically, let's say we sold 4 or 5 other players and bought in players that were about 50 million less. Couldn't we use 5 of the remaining 50 to pay for jwp's wages for a season without incurring heavy losses? I'm not saying we are going to do anything like that, but surely it's a possibility. 

[derry]

4 hours ago, wild-saint said:

ive heard that his wife doesn't wasn't to leave their home in Winchester /Twyford way and as such only London clubs are realistic as he will need to commute to training. guess that means Wet Spam and or Fulham. Not sure where west ham train but that could be a trek each day that could put him off. 

I think it's Chigwell, Essex. That's an awful drive.

[Fan The Flames]

7 minutes ago, derry said:

I think it's Chigwell, Essex. That's an awful drive.

It's it Romford, an awful drive from most places.

[jimmysaint7]

15 minutes ago, derry said:

I think it's Chigwell, Essex. That's an awful drive.

West ham train at rush Green.

Comes under the Borough of barking and Dagenham,not a bad drive I always felt to be fair! 

[Graffito]

17 minutes ago, jimmysaint7 said:

West ham train at rush Green.

Comes under the Borough of barking and Dagenham,not a bad drive I always felt to be fair! 

I lived in north London just off the north circular for thirty years. That section from the m3 round to east London is a nightmare. Likewise the m25 gets snarled up regularly. A commute from Winchester wouldn’t be sustainable imo. Either he moves house or don’t go there. The latter I hope. Incidentally I travel to matches from East Sussex now. The A27 isn’t great either so brighton wouldn’t be an easy commute. 

[derry]

15 minutes ago, jimmysaint7 said:

West ham train at rush Green.

Comes under the Borough of barking and Dagenham,not a bad drive I always felt to be fair! 

M3 M25 probably J27 at best. I did Stansted daily for two years thirty years ago and it was an awful drive then, God only knows what it's like nowadays. I couldn't wait to get to Gatwick. I wouldn't think it's an option.  Train might be a better option. I can't see him doing that. I think Brentford, Fulham, Chelsea, Brighton and Bournemouth are his options. Even Villa and Wolves. He'll either get a place locally or not move.

[Dragon_man]

6 hours ago, waylander said:

West Ham train in Romford so that's a hack halfway round the M25 which can come to a halt at any time. Long commute!

He'd never have to commute, they'd provide an apartment he'd stay in a few nights a week.

On the travel to/from Winchester, he'll be chauffeur driven. 

Edited 11 July, 2023 by Dragon_man

[Chez]

3 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Hypothetically, let's say we sold 4 or 5 other players and bought in players that were about 50 million less. Couldn't we use 5 of the remaining 50 to pay for jwp's wages for a season without incurring heavy losses? I'm not saying we are going to do anything like that, but surely it's a possibility. 

Yeah, sure.

However, the money we get for the players we sell will more likely be used to pay for the players we brought in over the last 12 months.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

Yeah, sure.

However, the money we get for the players we sell will more likely be used to pay for the players we brought in over the last 12 months.

All of it? How are the likes of Leeds or Leicester affording any players then, given that they don't have as many saleable assets as we do. 

[chuz]

1 hour ago, Dragon_man said:

He'd never have to commute, they'd provide an apartment he'd stay in a few nights a week.

On the travel to/from Winchester, he'll be chauffeur driven. 

Exactly this. Or his signing on fee would easily pay for a second property anywhere in the country as a weekly place to stay...

Let's not pretend he's going to have to jump in a second hand Ford Fiesta every morning and do the commute like a normal person.  Even if he was to go to Manchester or Newcastle there would be a private jet option for commutes back to Southampton (either paid by him, his club or likely a combination of both....)  

I'd love him to stay but lets not pretend a long daily commute will come into the equation...

[Badger]

30 minutes ago, chuz said:

I'd love him to stay but lets not pretend a long daily commute will come into the equation...

Not as if there’s a full eight hour working day to contend with when he reaches his destination either 

[Chez]

3 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

All of it? How are the likes of Leeds or Leicester affording any players then, given that they don't have as many saleable assets as we do. 

I don't know exactly what we owe and the payment schedules - I can only generalise and use fag packet figures, but we obviously have spent a lot and will need to balance the books. 

Leicester didn't spend £130m last season on players. In fact they made about £40m o the Fofana sale. The just brought in over £40m from the Maddison sale and have spent less than half of it. They are about to sell Harvey Barnes for £35m or more. 

Leeds have brought no one in at all and offloaded a couple on season loans, so not sure what you mean about them affording players.

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Chez said:

I don't know exactly what we owe and the payment schedules - I can only generalise and use fag packet figures, but we obviously have spent a lot and will need to balance the books. 

Leicester didn't spend £130m last season on players. In fact they made about £40m o the Fofana sale. The just brought in over £40m from the Maddison sale and have spent less than half of it. They are about to sell Harvey Barnes for £35m or more. 

Leeds have brought no one in at all and offloaded a couple on season loans, so not sure what you mean about them affording players.

When Leeds inevitably buy players. Of course we will need to sell and make some money but the point is we have more assets to sell than any other team in the championship. It won't surprise me if we sell 100m+ and keep many of our best players. 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

6 hours ago, derry said:

M3 M25 probably J27 at best. I did Stansted daily for two years thirty years ago and it was an awful drive then, God only knows what it's like nowadays. I couldn't wait to get to Gatwick. I wouldn't think it's an option.  Train might be a better option. I can't see him doing that. I think Brentford, Fulham, Chelsea, Brighton and Bournemouth are his options. Even Villa and Wolves. He'll either get a place locally or not move.

I did Stansted for two years, five years ago and it was horrendous, especially from the M3 junction and often stop/start/slow traffic nearly always up until passing the M1 junction. And if he left early in the morning to miss the traffic, they often do closures/diversions. Luton now for me. 

[wild-saint]

3 hours ago, chuz said:

Exactly this. Or his signing on fee would easily pay for a second property anywhere in the country as a weekly place to stay...

Let's not pretend he's going to have to jump in a second hand Ford Fiesta every morning and do the commute like a normal person.  Even if he was to go to Manchester or Newcastle there would be a private jet option for commutes back to Southampton (either paid by him, his club or likely a combination of both....)  

I'd love him to stay but lets not pretend a long daily commute will come into the equation...

its not like its only for a couple of weeks. He will need to be at training 4/5 days a week plus match day for near on 9 months of the year. who cares whether he is driven or drives himself in a rolls royce its still an absolute  minimum of 4 hours in a car each day. yes he could rent a flat but how long before he and more importantly his wife gets fucked off with him being away from his young child for 3 nights per week. sustainable short term but not on a 3 year contract. it will get frustrating pretty damn quick. 

he has to weigh that up over playing in the PL with westham if he wont move. i think Fulham is his most likely destination if any, with even Brighton a bit of trek from winchester.

it will definitely be factored into his decision and he may just buy into Russell Martin and give it a year to get back. its more likely than any of the other mercenaries that want out

 

[waylander]

2 minutes ago, wild-saint said:

its not like its only for a couple of weeks. He will need to be at training 4/5 days a week plus match day for near on 9 months of the year. who cares whether he is driven or drives himself in a rolls royce its still an absolute  minimum of 4 hours in a car each day. yes he could rent a flat but how long before he and more importantly his wife gets fucked off with him being away from his young child for 3 nights per week. sustainable short term but not on a 3 year contract. it will get frustrating pretty damn quick. 

he has to weigh that up over playing in the PL with westham if he wont move. i think Fulham is his most likely destination if any, with even Brighton a bit of trek from winchester.

it will definitely be factored into his decision and he may just buy into Russell Martin and give it a year to get back. its more likely than any of the other mercenaries that want out

 

There is just no quick way of getting from Winchester to Brighton

[Dusic]

All sounds very nice but in the real world of football JWP will move to almost any PL team who make Saints an acceptable offer.

Commuting, living away from family...its the reality of being a pro sportsperson and these guys are driven and have egos to play at the best level they can. 

He may well have a preference for remaining at home but if West Ham, Newcastle, Brighton whoever stump up the cash he will go and will find a solution to his living arrangements just like all the other pros who move away from their home patch.

[david in sweden]

On 11/07/2023 at 09:23, Dman said:

I love these theories. He's clearly not going to turn down a big money move to a big club north of London because his wife doesn't want to move. 

there is a long list of transfer deals (over many decades) that didn't happen because " the wife " didn't like the new club / location.

[Tom]

4 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

there is a long list of transfer deals (over many decades) that didn't happen because " the wife " didn't like the new club / location.

MLT being one of them.....

[ally_uk]

Couldn't we use him as leverage to get either Downes or Ings...... 

[Chez]

5 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

Couldn't we use him as leverage to get either Downes or Ings...... 

possibly, but they would have to want to come to us, in a lower division...and then there is issue of their Prem wages. Ings' wages are not affordable in the championship

 

[manji]

18 hours ago, Chez said:

I don't know exactly what we owe and the payment schedules - I can only generalise and use fag packet figures, but we obviously have spent a lot and will need to balance the books. 

Leicester didn't spend £130m last season on players. In fact they made about £40m o the Fofana sale. The just brought in over £40m from the Maddison sale and have spent less than half of it. They are about to sell Harvey Barnes for £35m or more. 

Leeds have brought no one in at all and offloaded a couple on season loans, so not sure what you mean about them affording players.

We don’t need to sell to spend at all. All debts cleared. Plenty of money in the bank. Clearly we need to offload some players but that’s not driving the purchases.

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, manji said:

We don’t need to sell to spend at all. All debts cleared. Plenty of money in the bank. Clearly we need to offload some players but that’s not driving the purchases.

If that's true then we really shouldn't be selling the likes of tella or jwp for anything other than top dollar. 

[Chez]

14 minutes ago, manji said:

We don’t need to sell to spend at all. All debts cleared. Plenty of money in the bank. Clearly we need to offload some players but that’s not driving the purchases.

When were our debts cleared? Are you referring to the £70m loan and/or payments for recent transfers?
How much is in the bank? Is it the £18m Dragon just put in there to tide things over until money comes in from transfers etc? 

Edited 12 July, 2023 by Chez

[manji]

8 minutes ago, Chez said:

When were our debts cleared? Are you referring to the £70m loan and/or payments for recent transfers?
How much is in the bank? Is it the £18m Dragon just put in there to tide things over until money comes in from transfers etc? 

It’s been mentioned in many articles. Notably in The Athletics elongated article about our upcoming season.

whereas Leicester particularly are in a financial mess. 

[once_bitterne]

26 minutes ago, manji said:

We don’t need to sell to spend at all. All debts cleared. Plenty of money in the bank. Clearly we need to offload some players but that’s not driving the purchases.

How can our debts be cleared?  We stayed up when owned by Gao for 3 seasons with pretty much zero net spend.  Last season we spent £160m on transfer fees alone to get relegated.  Where is the money coming from to fund this? Our owner is not rich enough to cover that sort of debt.

It's very likely we will be need to sell at least £100m to keep the club afloat.

[manji]

20 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

If that's true then we really shouldn't be selling the likes of tella or jwp for anything other than top dollar. 

Totally that’s why we’ve quoted very high prices for those two. I mean if the likes of KWP is keen to go to another club we would probably let him go but again he would cost a lot.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, manji said:

Totally that’s why we’ve quoted very high prices for those two. I mean if the likes of KWP is keen to go to another club we would probably let him go but again he would cost a lot.

If other clubs won't pay though surely we will just have to get some out the door? We can't keep them all and refresh the squad and bring in alternatives. 

Additionally, have you heard anything about jwp? 

[Bad Wolf]

30 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

If that's true then we really shouldn't be selling the likes of tella or jwp for anything other than top dollar. 

Top dollar is going to be subjective. Some would say £20 million plus Downes IS top dollar for a 29 year old with literally no resale value on him and who doesn't really contribute much other than free kicks (and even then only direct ones) 

[manji]

26 minutes ago, once_bitterne said:

How can our debts be cleared?  We stayed up when owned by Gao for 3 seasons with pretty much zero net spend.  Last season we spent £160m on transfer fees alone to get relegated.  Where is the money coming from to fund this? Our owner is not rich enough to cover that sort of debt.

It's very likely we will be need to sell at least £100m to keep the club afloat.

Read up on Dragan. He’s a multi-billionaire for starters he has massive businesses in many of the Balkan countries especially Greece ( I know Greece aren’t Balkan ).

SR are buying clubs FFS and has said that will not have any effect on any of Southamptons finances. Yet again I repeat he admitted he didn’t get involved enough last season and will be watching the club like a hawk.

Edited 12 July, 2023 by manji

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Bad Wolf said:

Top dollar is going to be subjective. Some would say £20 million plus Downes IS top dollar for a 29 year old with literally no resale value on him and who doesn't really contribute much other than free kicks (and even then only direct ones) 

Is that what has been offered? 

[Bad Wolf]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Is that what has been offered? 

I have no idea - It's the last potential 'rumour' I heard so I'm going with that for the purposes of this.

[manji]

8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

If other clubs won't pay though surely we will just have to get some out the door? We can't keep them all and refresh the squad and bring in alternatives. 

Additionally, have you heard anything about jwp? 

If you watched the full interview with Martin he mentioned offloading players and said if they don’t like it they will be dealt with, or words to that effect.

I have a feeling JWP will stay but that’s only based on what has been said on here.

I do know his missus doesn’t want to move and he wants to play a big part in his nippers upbringing. It’s not just paying a game at Fulham ( for example ) and then spend the rest of the week with his family.

Edited 12 July, 2023 by manji

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

I have no idea - It's the last potential 'rumour' I heard so I'm going with that for the purposes of this.

That seems like a good deal to me if that's what was offered. I'd be surprised if West ham went for that though. 

[once_bitterne]

22 hours ago, manji said:

Read up on Dragan. He’s a multi-billionaire for starters he has massive businesses in many of the Balkan countries especially Greece ( I know Greece aren’t Balkan ).

SR are buying clubs FFS and has said that will not on any of Southamptons finances. Yet again I repeat he admitted he didn’t get involved enough last season and will be watching the club like a hawk.

No.  His net worth is said to be around £1bn so certainly not a multi-billionaire and remember net worth is the value of all he owns not the cash he has to hand.

So... Companies house records show we were running at a multi-million £ loss under Gao where net transfer spend was negligible.  Dragan bought 80% of the club for around 1/4 of his net worth and then the club spent £160m on fees alone to get relegated.

Even with parachute payments our yearly revenue has taken a big hit with relegation.

So where is the money coming from to pay for all of this if not transfer sales?  Dragan aint rich enough to fund it.

I think you're in for some disappointment if you really don't think we need to bringing in at least £100m from sales this Summer. (which we will do).

Edited 13 July, 2023 by once_bitterne

[Chez]

15 minutes ago, manji said:

It’s been mentioned in many articles. Notably in The Athletics elongated article about our upcoming season.

 

Has it? Can you share a link to The Athletic article. I've not read that one or any other that confirms we are debt free. 

[once_bitterne]

3 minutes ago, Chez said:

Has it? Can you share a link to The Athletic article. I've not read that one or any other that confirms we are debt free. 

Debt free after spending £160m to get relegated! 🤪

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, once_bitterne said:

No.  His net worth is said to be around £1bn so certainly not a multi-billionaire and remember net worth is the value of all he owns not the cash he has to hand.

So... Companies house records show we were running at a multi-million £ loss under Gao where net transfer spend was negligible.  Dragan bought 80% of the club for around 1/4 of his net worth and then the club spent £160m on fees alone to get rel gated.

Even with parachute payments our yearly revenue has taken a big hit with relegation.

So where is the money coming from to pay for all of this if not transfer sales?  Dragan aint rich enough to fund it.

I think you're in for some disappointment if you really don't think we need to bringing in at least £100m from sales this Summer. (which we will do).

Dragon is just a front. The money is coming from Man Citys owners who are bankrolling us spending tens of millions on their crap academy players as another way of getting round FFP. 

[skintsaint]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Dragon is just a front. The money is coming from Man Citys owners who are bankrolling us spending tens of millions on their crap academy players as another way of getting round FFP. 

[Convict Colony]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

Dragon is just a front. The money is coming from Man Citys owners who are bankrolling us spending tens of millions on their crap academy players as another way of getting round FFP. 

I like it and could get behind this conspiracy 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, manji said:

If you watched the full interview with Martin he mentioned offloading players and said if they don’t like it they will be dealt with, or words to that effect.

I have a feeling JWP will stay but that’s only based on what has been said on here.

I do know his missus doesn’t want to move and he wants to play a big part in his nippers upbringing. It’s not just paying a game at Fulham ( for example ) and then spend the rest of the week with his family.

I’ve said the same before; I have friends that know his family and also said similar to you, i.e. he is a family man, close family, likes his life down south.

Thats been my sole basis for me thinking he’ll stay. Just a hunch.

[Dr. Kucho]

5 hours ago, Turkish said:

Dragon is just a front. The money is coming from Man Citys owners who are bankrolling us spending tens of millions on their crap academy players as another way of getting round FFP. 

Tomorrow this will be on MLT’s Twitter feed. 

[Saint86]

21 hours ago, once_bitterne said:

So where is the money coming from to pay for all of this if not transfer sales?  Dragan aint rich enough to fund it.

I think you're in for some disappointment if you really don't think we need to bringing in at least £100m from sales this Summer. (which we will do).

Should be fairly easy to bank the club £100M in sales and wage savings.

Ely, theo, orsic. already gone. Assume average 60k per week for most of our more experienced players =  circa £3M each or £9M saved total. Orsic sale was £3-4M? so thats £12M.

Lavia will be £50M plus wages, lets assume £50k per week so £2.6M. Fine we have to pay city 20% of the sale, but it still passes through the club's books for FFP reasons.

£62M so far.

KWP £15M sale, and £3M wages. = £80M total

Salisu £7M sale (rumoured) and £3M wages = £90M total

Che Adams (£15M sale (rumoured) and £3M wages = £108M total

Onuachu (£10M sale?) and say £2M wages = £120M

And there will be other players leaving - Straight off the bat i reckon you can pick 2 from DCC, Lyanco, Bednarek, Stephens, ABK. Far from certain that we'll keep Macca, Djenpo, Stu. Aribo, Diallo etiher. Easily see us getting up to £150M in sales and player wage savings just from adding some exits from these players... and we'll replace them with a limited number of cheaper and younger players on lower wages / or loan signings - bearing in mind that our squad is incredibly bloated and we have some bright prospects breaking through.

So all this talk of us having to sell JWP, having to sell Tella, or Tino, or Alcaraz, or Sulemana etc that you see in the media... i remain utterly non fussed - we only need to do one big sale (looks to be lavia)... Beyond that, we have plenty of players that we activley want to sell and who will want to get out for the sake of better wages. So any of our better players we can charge a premium for - and likely use the money to strategically improve the squad.

Also as a strategic mid term plan, buying youth prospects is a good move in the champ. The parachute payments reduce per season, but those players will be on lower wages, improve, and can be sold on for a profit if required. Which is far more sustainable that signing high wage/fee players and missing promotion.

Edited 13 July, 2023 by Saint86

[SuperSAINT]

[david in sweden]

20 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Should be fairly easy to bank the club £100M in sales and wage savings.

Ely, theo, orsic. already gone. Assume average 60k per week for most of our more experienced players =  circa £3M each or £9M saved total. Orsic sale was £3-4M? so thats £12M.

Lavia will be £50M plus wages, lets assume £50k per week so £2.6M. Fine we have to pay city 20% of the sale, but it still passes through the club's books for FFP reasons.

£62M so far.

KWP £15M sale, and £3M wages. = £80M total

Salisu £7M sale (rumoured) and £3M wages = £90M total

Che Adams (£15M sale (rumoured) and £3M wages = £108M total

Onuachu (£10M sale?) and say £2M wages = £120M

And there will be other players leaving - Straight off the bat i reckon you can pick 2 from DCC, Lyanco, Bednarek, Stephens, ABK. Far from certain that we'll keep Macca, Djenpo, Stu. Aribo, Diallo etiher. Easily see us getting up to £150M in sales and player wage savings just from adding some exits from these players... and we'll replace them with a limited number of cheaper and younger players on lower wages / or loan signings - bearing in mind that our squad is incredibly bloated and we have some bright prospects breaking through.

So all this talk of us having to sell JWP, having to sell Tella, or Tino, or Alcaraz, or Sulemana etc that you see in the media... i remain utterly non fussed - we only need to do one big sale (looks to be lavia)... Beyond that, we have plenty of players that we activley want to sell and who will want to get out for the sake of better wages. So any of our better players we can charge a premium for - and likely use the money to strategically improve the squad.

Also as a strategic mid term plan, buying youth prospects is a good move in the champ. The parachute payments reduce per season, but those players will be on lower wages, improve, and can be sold on for a profit if required. Which is far more sustainable that signing high wage/fee players and missing promotion.

......can't disagree with much of your analysis but we should remember that SR have spent around 130 million (of someone's money) in the last 18 months , so it's not  as if we will end up with quite so much money to play with.  Man City will get 20% of an eventual sale of Lavia and we surely have outstanding amounts to pay off from previous buys,  as many deals are made on an instalment basis, and not with all the money up front.   

As we will be unlikely to sign too many Prem. class players this season, buying in free transfer(s) will save a lot, and even deals of 10-15 million will be good investments.

 

If / when we get back to the Prem. most of the newer buys will have proven themselves good enough /  OR /  haven't made the grade for the top tier. 

Profitability for the club isn't just based on player sales as there will undoubtedly be a decrease in attendances at SMS, sponsorship deals and a huge drop in  TV income compared with the Prem. level. we have been used to. 

Nevertheless, we will certainly be better placed than some other clubs recently relegated who are still struggling to get back up.

 

 

Edited 14 July, 2023 by david in sweden

[Saint86]

10 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

As we will be unlikely to sign too many Prem. class players this season, buying in free transfer(s) will save a lot, and even deals of 10-15 million will be good investments.

If / when we get back to the Prem. most of the newer buys will have proven themselves good enough /  OR /  haven't made the grade for the top tier. 

Profitability for the club isn't just based on player sales as there will undoubtedly be a decrease in attendances at SMS, sponsorship deals and a huge drop in  TV income compared with the Prem. level. we have been used to. 

Nevertheless, we will certainly be better placed than some other clubs recently relegated who are still struggling to get back up.

(I'm conscious this is now going away from the JWP focus of this thread so perhaps mods should move the last couple of posts)

I'm not so sure we'll see a drop in attendances. Wasn't the recent rumour that season ticket sales have increased? We'll certainly have more matches regardless and i think last year we averaged about 2000 empty seats per game (we had the highest average number of empty seats in the league under one breakdown i saw). I would imagine a successful side in champ will at least match those numbers and possibly achieve a lot of sell outs in the latter half of the season. Caveated by the fact we average 26k in the champ last time around although that was after years of poor football and strife. Sponsorship deals may see a decline agree, but only for ones renewed this year (or if we have a relegation clause in the T&C's. And who knows, SR might be able to expand the number of commercial deals the club have to mitigate this.

Will be interesting to see our books for last season when released - agree i think there needs to be an awareness that SR have put their hands in their own pocket to fund the club as a long term investment, so whilst they'll expect a return/profit ultimately on that money, we don't need to fund that money immediatley - just stick within the FFP limits. Perhaps a bigger concern is what is happens with that loan we took out over covid.

[Chez]

West Ham renew interest in Alvarez from Ajax according to the athletic. £35-40m quoted. Might have a bearing on JWP.

[coalman]

I think if JWP leaves it will be a net positive for us. Not only will we get decent cash for an academy product but we'll get his wages off the books. As a player he's got some incredible attributes - his work rate, his shooting from free kicks and he never gets injured. Not so sure about corners as we have a terrible record of scoring from them though whether that is down to the goal shy nature of our team is another matter.

That being said I think he's lacking one of the fundamental skills a central midfielder needs which is the ability to receive a ball in tight space and turn on it. The thing that Lavia has in superhuman quantities. The net effect of that is our play is predictable and we're easy to press out of the game. He gets the ball and moves it quickly but that tends to be quickly sideways or backwards. Again there's an open question as to whether it's because our players are crap at showing for the ball or crap at receiving the ball in tight spaces.

That's the problem Saints need to solve if we're going to play any kind of exciting football or switch to a more direct attacking style. It's why Lavia was such a huge miss when he got injured as our whole style of play depended on his ability to receive, turn and release it. It's also why Elyounnousi was such a drag on our play as he'd receive and either lose it or just give it away. There's a chance losing JWP might be a good thing long term for our midfield. There's also a chance that the problem was elsewhere on the pitch.

Edited 15 July, 2023 by coalman

[Holmes_and_Watson]

I thought, right at the end, our corners looked better. I remember thinking "oh, now we do it, when he'll be out the door." 🙂

I also thought JWP did look a bit better, given some license to be further forward. There, his passes could get to attackers, and create chances. He could also have efforts himself. All without it all having to go through another player first.

Hard to tell, after a while of tepid, unsuccessful build up play, what was tactics driven, limitations in receivers or JWP natural preference. I'd not mind another season to find out though.