Saints Expelled from Playoffs

[James]

Having taken some time to reflect, the severity of the sanction imposed, given what happened to Leeds (I know, different times, no rule…) and what has happened and will inevitably happen to Chelsea and Man City, is difficult to fully comprehend.
 

I blame the Club and the coaching staff, it’s impossible not to, but most of my anger is at the fact that the EFL and the Independent Commission have chosen to throw the book at us, likely under the influence of Middlesbrough Football Club, given the interconnectivity between the senior personnel there and the top of the EFL, when the footballing authorities gone easier on other clubs for, in my view at least, more serious and more prolonged offences. There really is one rule for some, another for others.

We need a reset - if only to restore the damage that the social media pile on, again instigated by influenced journalists from the North East - and the Club need our backing more than ever.

We must ensure that this doesn’t destroy the short term future of this Club. I don’t envy those in decision making capacities this summer. 

Edited 6 hours ago by James

[LordHester]

2 minutes ago, Thripp87 said:

The footballing world will soon move on from this shit storm.

 

I admire your optimism, but I think this can of worms has only just been opened. Off the top of my head, there could be:

• FA action against individuals at the club
• Player exodus
• The search for yet another new manager
• Sponsors pulling out
• Dragan deciding he's had enough and selling up

 

[Livewire]

I see that Hellberg sympathises with us Saints fans. Well, this Southampton supporter hopes they lose on Saturday. It is an utter travesty and farce that Middlesbrough are in the final and can get to the Premier having lost to us. I hope he loses every game he ever manages. Same for the club. What we did is what we did, and it was wrong. What Middlesbrough did is to milk it to their advantage after they did not deserve to do so on the pitch.

[Thripp87]

23 minutes ago, Pengi said:

Try this

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7295741/2026/05/21/spygate-southampton-middlesbrough-legal-questions/?source=user_shared_article&unlocked_article_code=1.kFA.PPXn.WRV2rcOnCJL-

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out which EFL chief executive wants us to lose our parachute payments next season. Gibson has moaned about those for years! I wonder if he forgoes his when his side go down with 10 points next season.

[TheSoundman]

Just now, Thripp87 said:

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out which EFL chief executive wants us to lose our parachute payments next season. Gibson has moaned about those for years! I wonder if he forgoes his when his side go down with 10 points next season.

Wow, how many different punishments can they come up with?

Would every opponent like a 2 goal start next season? Or maybe 4 points for a win against us?

FFS

[Livewire]

4 hours ago, CylonKing said:

If not aware of the rule, why send someone in disguise?

He worked at Barnsley for 18 months. He would at least have had an idea from that time whether it was allowed or not. 

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

9 minutes ago, Livewire said:

I see that Hellberg sympathises with us Saints fans. Well, this Southampton supporter hopes they lose on Saturday. It is an utter travesty and farce that Middlesbrough are in the final and can get to the Premier having lost to us. I hope he loses every game he ever manages. Same for the club. What we did is what we did, and it was wrong. What Middlesbrough did is to milk it to their advantage after they did not deserve to do so on the pitch.

Yep, he came across as a massive prick throughout. 

[Shufty Zubrik]

5 hours ago, Cabrone said:

A lot of ppl are gunning for Tonda but I'm going to take his words on face value that he genuinely didn't know about the 72 hour rule. Controversial I know but I do think he was very badly managed himself.

For me the real idiots are the board. They get paid the big bucks to make sure everyone complies with the rules and that everyone knows what the rules are. Gross incompetency from them and I'd be happy to see all of them fired today. Quit your endless word salad and self congratulations and actually run the club properly.

So personally I'd stick with Tonda (assuming he's not going to get banned by the FA over this). He'll be burning for some kind of redemption. We should tell him to swallow the shit that is going to come his way and that the minimum next season is top 2. I think he's good enough to get it. After all this business would have barely given us any advantage anyway and he did take us from relegation candidates to almost top 2. He owes us.

We can either come together or fall apart.

Agreed. 
 

[bpsaint]

3 minutes ago, Stripey McStripe Shirt said:

Yep, he came across as a massive prick throughout. 

Yeah him and his crocodile tears can fuck off. Hope he’s crying real ones Saturday.

[James G]

The Middlesbrough manager says there is more to come out about this when the report comes out which will add context to the decision that was made

[Window Cleaner]

2 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

Yeah him and his crocodile tears can fuck off. Hope he’s crying real ones Saturday.

Boro will win on Saturday. Hull really aren't very good. I watched their game against Millwall who just didn't turn up for either leg.

With the VAR, I wouldn't be surprised if Boro don't get at least one penalty and Hull at least one red card.

[RedWillie]

1 hour ago, Mt.B-Real said:

I sincerely hope there are some resignations or sackings announced by the end of today.

Parsons, Spors, Tonda and anyone else who knew anything about this need to leave immediately.

I'm amazed we've not heard anything already.

Dragan is on his way apparently. I would expect to hear something along the lines of a clear out next week. 

[trousers]

29 minutes ago, Harold K Steptoe said:

Wouldn’t surprise me if there was a mole in our own coaching staff. They’re not all on big money and a little word to someone for a nice little earner. I’ve never trusted anybody in business so wouldn’t put it past someone.

Yeah, wouldn't surprise me either... 

By the way, do you still get snippets of new kit info? cheers 

[die Mannyschaft]

14 minutes ago, Livewire said:

He worked at Barnsley for 18 months. He would at least have had an idea from that time whether it was allowed or not. 

Looks like its not a problem in Germany but using a drone is? Tonda thinks Germany is still German Democratic Republic and Stasi are employed by clubs 

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/8040294/werder-bremen-police-drone-spying/

[Harold K Steptoe]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

Yeah, wouldn't surprise me either... 

By the way, do you still get snippets of new kit info? cheers 

I can but don’t really see them much to ask and it’s always a disappointment when they showed me. About time we let the fans who do better mock ups design them.

[sotonjoe]

6 hours ago, Hopper said:

What's big Ange up to?

We are what we are mate. 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

7 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I think we've been a much bigger victim of Boro's and Gibons media machine. 

Proportionally what we did is probably not a great deal different to that of Leeds, but when you compare the media campain during Leeds and our events, they couldn't be more different. With Leeds, you had journos laughing about it and saying it would be harsh if Bielsa got a touch line ban. With us, sack everyone, ban the manager for 2 years, expel them from everything. I think we've been stitched up and thrown to the wolves, it's our fault because we were stupid, but all of this stinks and it goes deeper than we will probably ever know.

When Gibson is on his death bed, which is when most people tell the truth, and he is asked what has been his greatest achievement, he won't say building up his haulage business, he'll say getting Middlesbrough promoted in 2026.

I don't know who I'm more annoyed with. Yes Tonda was wrong, but the way we handled it once the news broke was incompetence of the highest order. We were like rabbits in the headlights of a car...frozen.

If I was Dragan, I would get the analysts and media team off their arses and start presenting our case. The BBC's coverage was biased. Look at the comments on the articles and check out where they've come from. I bet it was mass manipulation by Boro. Check out the EFL. What was a Boro member doing on the board? Check out the whistleblower. Who sent Will Salt to the north east? If this turns out to be one huge set up, we need to be adequately compensated.

And let's get away from this self flagellation. We broke a half-baked rule but in reality it probably made little difference to any of the games. 

 

[hippo]

27 minutes ago, Thripp87 said:

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out which EFL chief executive wants us to lose our parachute payments next season. Gibson has moaned about those for years! I wonder if he forgoes his when his side go down with 10 points next season.

He can fuck right off - spunked £50+mil in 2016/17 (how much would that be now?) of these parachute payments on shit players and managers, and that's why they've been shite for so long. Don't be bitter because you're no longer benefitting from the same mechanism, due to your poor decisions. 

 

 

[hippo]

7 minutes ago, hippo said:

He can fuck right off - spunked £50+mil in 2016/17 (how much would that be now?) of these parachute payments on shit players and managers, and that's why they've been shite for so long. Don't be bitter because you're no longer benefitting from the same mechanism, due to your poor decisions. 

 

 

To follow up, I truly believe none of this would've happened if we weren't a parachute payment club. No one would care if it was another team. 

[Ldnsaint]

6 hours ago, Cabrone said:

A lot of ppl are gunning for Tonda but I'm going to take his words on face value that he genuinely didn't know about the 72 hour rule. Controversial I know but I do think he was very badly managed himself.

For me the real idiots are the board. They get paid the big bucks to make sure everyone complies with the rules and that everyone knows what the rules are. Gross incompetency from them and I'd be happy to see all of them fired today. Quit your endless word salad and self congratulations and actually run the club properly.

So personally I'd stick with Tonda (assuming he's not going to get banned by the FA over this). He'll be burning for some kind of redemption. We should tell him to swallow the shit that is going to come his way and that the minimum next season is top 2. I think he's good enough to get it. After all this business would have barely given us any advantage anyway and he did take us from relegation candidates to almost top 2. He owes us.

We can either come together or fall apart.

You think Tonda (who is also a fan of Bielsa), did not only not know about the rule but nobody from within the club brought it up? 😂

[James G]

From the Guardian

"The EFL’s rulebook contains no reference to the process for replacing an expelled team, although its guidance notes state that the playoff final should be contested between two semi-final winners, which will not be the case on Saturday."

which means if we are expelled then the team in 7th should come into play

I wonder if Wrexham will go for a high court injunction to stop the final

[scumbag]

4 minutes ago, James G said:

From the Guardian

"The EFL’s rulebook contains no reference to the process for replacing an expelled team, although its guidance notes state that the playoff final should be contested between two semi-final winners, which will not be the case on Saturday."

which means if we are expelled then the team in 7th should come into play

I wonder if Wrexham will go for a high court injunction to stop the final

I think it's a case of reviewing the statements made by the team that lost (the same statements that called for expulsion in this instance), and then continuing to follow their demands accordingly.

Edited 5 hours ago by scumbag

[trousers]

I think the lawyer chap on here is implying that we potentially screwed up by not putting our big gun lawyer (Pannick) on the initial hearing....?

He makes a very good point on the new rule Vs the reality of what happened and compares it with Leeds. Worth a listen. 

Edited 5 hours ago by trousers

[MarkSFC]

2 minutes ago, James G said:

From the Guardian

"The EFL’s rulebook contains no reference to the process for replacing an expelled team, although its guidance notes state that the playoff final should be contested between two semi-final winners, which will not be the case on Saturday."

which means if we are expelled then the team in 7th should come into play

I wonder if Wrexham will go for a high court injunction to stop the final

I dont think that logic follows given that the expulsion is from the "Cup competition" outside the league season, and therefore Hull should win by default. 

The points deduction (presumably) is for the two incidents within the season. 

This does not permit Wrexham the 7th place team to enter the play-offs. 

 

[Challenger]

On a brighter note I have heard that three possible companies have inquired about being our shirt sponsors next season.

An oil producer, a clothing manufacturer and a delivery company. Rumour has it they are TOTAL ,FCUK and UPS.

 

[whelk]

Must be a record thread - about to hit one million views after less than 2 weeks

[James G]

2 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

I dont think that logic follows given that the expulsion is from the "Cup competition" outside the league season, and therefore Hull should win by default. 

The points deduction (presumably) is for the two incidents within the season. 

This does not permit Wrexham the 7th place team to enter the play-offs. 

 

Yeah, that was the other angle about Hull winning it outright

The Guardian article also states that the independent panel watched our entire training sessions leading up to the Middlesbrough game showing we didn't use or gain anything from the spying. So we did beat them 

Unfortunately it's the act of spying regardless of it's impact that counted against us

[Dman]

9 minutes ago, James G said:

From the Guardian

"The EFL’s rulebook contains no reference to the process for replacing an expelled team, although its guidance notes state that the playoff final should be contested between two semi-final winners, which will not be the case on Saturday."

which means if we are expelled then the team in 7th should come into play

I wonder if Wrexham will go for a high court injunction to stop the final

Do we have a new best case scenario here... 

Boro win, get all excited and then Hull get it reversed on a technicality 😂

[Mboto Gorge]

52 minutes ago, Stripey McStripe Shirt said:

Yep, he came across as a massive prick throughout. 

Just like the entire club, staff and fan base of that shithole then

[scumbag]

4 minutes ago, trousers said:

I think the lawyer chap on here is implying that we potentially screwed up by not putting our big gun lawyer (Pannick) on the initial hearing....?

He makes a very good point on the new rule Vs the reality of what happened and compares it with Leeds. Worth a listen. 

All the baying puritans below! They must live exceptionally upstanding private lives. I must be alone in recognising the sometimes flawed, morally bankrupt, individual looking back at me in the mirror each morning. 

[BotleySaint]

5 minutes ago, Dman said:

Do we have a new best case scenario here... 

Boro win, get all excited and then Hull get it reversed on a technicality 😂

They've basically been given a free pass to the final because we watched probably 5 minutes of their training session outside of the approved window. Where is the similar level of relief/compensation from the authorities for Ipswich and Oxford? 

In a cup competition when a team is kicked out the opposition they were due to face just gets a bye to the next round. I think?

But then the CEO of Middlesborough is on the EFL board so.... 

Edited 5 hours ago by BotleySaint

[Badger]

33 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

I don't know who I'm more annoyed with. Yes Tonda was wrong, but the way we handled it once the news broke was incompetence of the highest order. We were like rabbits in the headlights of a car...frozen.

If I was Dragan, I would get the analysts and media team off their arses and start presenting our case. The BBC's coverage was biased. Look at the comments on the articles and check out where they've come from. I bet it was mass manipulation by Boro. Check out the EFL. What was a Boro member doing on the board? Check out the whistleblower. Who sent Will Salt to the north east? If this turns out to be one huge set up, we need to be adequately compensated.

And let's get away from this self flagellation. We broke a half-baked rule but in reality it probably made little difference to any of the games. 

 

Isn’t it a bit late to “get the analysts and media team off their arses and start presenting our case”? 

[bpsaint]

44 minutes ago, Window Cleaner said:

Boro will win on Saturday. Hull really aren't very good. I watched their game against Millwall who just didn't turn up for either leg.

With the VAR, I wouldn't be surprised if Boro don't get at least one penalty and Hull at least one red card.

Then let the fireworks commence! The EFL telling Hull to prepare for Southampton for over a week and then changing it to Boro with two days notice will come back to bite them I’m sure.

[James G]

4 minutes ago, Dman said:

Do we have a new best case scenario here... 

Boro win, get all excited and then Hull get it reversed on a technicality 😂

I think so

We have been thrown out based on the rules, which is fine.

But if we're going down that route, if Hull lose, they should definitely try and lodge an appeal. 

[newyork]

1 hour ago, James said:

Having taken some time to reflect, the severity of the sanction imposed, given what happened to Leeds (I know, different times, no rule…) and what has happened and will inevitably happen to Chelsea and Man City, is difficult to fully comprehend.
 

I blame the Club and the coaching staff, it’s impossible not to, but most of my anger is at the fact that the EFL and the Independent Commission have chosen to throw the book at us, likely under the influence of Middlesbrough Football Club, given the interconnectivity between the senior personnel there and the top of the EFL, when the footballing authorities gone easier on other clubs for, in my view at least, more serious and more prolonged offences. There really is one rule for some, another for others.

We need a reset - if only to restore the damage that the social media pile on, again instigated by influenced journalists from the North East - and the Club need our backing more than ever.

We must ensure that this doesn’t destroy the short term future of this Club. I don’t envy those in decision making capacities this summer. 

We need to start fighting back. Fuck spying. Its not spying its scouting. Cundy is spot on - this is a non event that has been manipulated by Gibstein and his contacts. The real shame is we did not meet the acusation early enough to implicate Middlesborough man on the EFL. No media strategy was the worst mistake. We havent cheated if anyone has its them.

[Dman]

8 minutes ago, BotleySaint said:

They've basically been given a free pass to the final because we watched probably 5 minutes of their training session outside of the approved window. Where is the similar level of relief/compensation from the authorities for Ipswich and Oxford? 

In a cup competition when a team is kicked out the opposition they were due to face just gets a bye to the next round. I think?

But then the CEO of Middlesborough is on the EFL board so.... 

I seriously think Hull would have a serious case here.

[Mboto Gorge]

I wonder what Gibson would do if he was Wrexham and finished 7th…..oh he’s already done that to Derby. My mistake. 

[CSA96]

Pretty damning line for Saints on the compliance/admin front in the newest Guardian article:

Eckert, who is battling to hold on to his job amid a Football Association investigation into the conduct of individuals at the club, has argued he did not realise what he did was against the EFL’s statutes.

Southampton gave a detailed briefing in pre-season to Eckert’s predecessor, Will Still, explaining the competition’s rules. They did not do the same for Eckert after he replaced Still in early November.

--

How is a club secretary/compliance manager/other admin staff member not taking a rookie manager through the requirements of his role and the requirements of the competitions he will be leading the team in? 

[Mboto Gorge]

Just now, CSA96 said:

Pretty damning line for Saints on the compliance/admin front in the newest Guardian article:

Eckert, who is battling to hold on to his job amid a Football Association investigation into the conduct of individuals at the club, has argued he did not realise what he did was against the EFL’s statutes.

Southampton gave a detailed briefing in pre-season to Eckert’s predecessor, Will Still, explaining the competition’s rules. They did not do the same for Eckert after he replaced Still in early November.

--

How is a club secretary/compliance manager/other admin staff member not taking a rookie manager through the requirements of his role and the requirements of the competitions he will be leading the team in? 

It’s almost as if our owners are totally incompetent fools isn’t it? Wish this would have become apparent sooner…….

[sfc4prem]

1 hour ago, Livewire said:

I see that Hellberg sympathises with us Saints fans. Well, this Southampton supporter hopes they lose on Saturday. It is an utter travesty and farce that Middlesbrough are in the final and can get to the Premier having lost to us. I hope he loses every game he ever manages. Same for the club. What we did is what we did, and it was wrong. What Middlesbrough did is to milk it to their advantage after they did not deserve to do so on the pitch.

Hellberg can suck my throbbing dick. Bloke is a sanctimonious prick and I don't want him to step foot anywhere near my club. I'll make that abundantly clear if he is still in charge of Boro at our home game next season.

[Wurzel]

Just a thought, could we contact Boro and tell them Salt was just a decoy and for £100m we'll sell them the info on Hull we are currently still gathering. Then do the same to Hull .  

Edited 5 hours ago by Wurzel

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

13 minutes ago, Badger said:

Isn’t it a bit late to “get the analysts and media team off their arses and start presenting our case”? 

Yes, we missed the opportunity yo play in the final but it's not too late to screw the EFL for all they're worth. As I see it, we've been swindled out of a chance of premier league football and we need to make them pay. I see the FA are making their own investigations. They're seriously concerned about what we'll uncover if we do some proper digging. That this type of scouting is rife? That Boro unfairly influenced an 'independent' panel? We should be able to uncover a whole can of worms.

[Dman]

6 minutes ago, Mboto Gorge said:

I wonder what Gibson would do if he was Wrexham and finished 7th…..oh he’s already done that to Derby. My mistake. 

Is that a precdent by the way? Surely his own arguement back then would counter any argument now...

[James]

23 minutes ago, Dman said:

Do we have a new best case scenario here... 

Boro win, get all excited and then Hull get it reversed on a technicality 😂

Nah, fuck that. 5-0 to Hull to watch the smile from that twat Gibson’s face disappear live on TV. 

[Toussaint]

23 minutes ago, scumbag said:

All the baying puritans below! They must live exceptionally upstanding private lives. I must be alone in recognising the sometimes flawed, morally bankrupt, individual looking back at me in the mirror each morning. 

It is vomit inducing

[Toussaint]

6 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

Hellberg can suck my throbbing dick. Bloke is a sanctimonious prick and I don't want him to step foot anywhere near my club. I'll make that abundantly clear if he is still in charge of Boro at our home game next season.

Maybe ask his wife to do it?

[Mboto Gorge]

7 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Yes, we missed the opportunity yo play in the final but it's not too late to screw the EFL for all they're worth. As I see it, we've been swindled out of a chance of premier league football and we need to make them pay. I see the FA are making their own investigations. They're seriously concerned about what we'll uncover if we do some proper digging. That this type of scouting is rife? That Boro unfairly influenced an 'independent' panel? We should be able to uncover a whole can of worms.

The least independent, independent panel in legal history, I’d suggest. Fucking outrageous. Running scared from a Gibson legal writ so just bowed down to exactly what Boro demanded. Allowed themselves to be bullied by him. Pathetic and corrupt but this is the EFL and football in general so not surprised at all that we didn’t get a fair hearing

[saintant]

I'm guessing Dragan will be mighty angry about a lot of things. One of those things might be the implication that most if not all clubs do similar. I'd imagine that will seriously piss him off and he'll throw everything at compiling some watertight evidence that it goes on. Get the popcorn ready cos I think Dragan has come over to stir some shit up as well as sorting things internally for us.

[Mboto Gorge]

19 minutes ago, Dman said:

I seriously think Hull would have a serious case here.

I wonder what Gibson would do, if he was the Hull owner? That should be reason enough for them to go all guns blazing at this 

[die Mannyschaft]

2 minutes ago, James said:

Nah, fuck that. 5-0 to Hull to watch the smile from that twat Gibson’s face disappear live on TV. 

Boro player coach and fans coaches break down or very late. Issues with turnstiles and half Boro fans cant get in. Boro lose on penalties and players start crying on Sky tv. Underground strike. Dodgy kebabs for Boro playersnight before. Really hoping for a controversial red card for Boro leading to a Hull goal.

.