Saints Expelled from Playoffs

[MB]

Losing Peretz is a massive blow, not too bothered about Larin, reminded me of Damion Downes in his last couple of games.

Have to try and keep Leo and Jander, keep both of those and we should have a  strong season next year. 

Edited 1 hour ago by MB

[SNSUN]

1 hour ago, Barry the Badger said:

Absolutely. Got people saying "the fans deserved it" too because people were doing the binoculars etc, but I think that all came from the club seeming as though they weren't worried and it all seemed a bit of a storm in a teacup which the club would prove to be wrong.

That's just fan bantz, same as the gilly suits etc. No worse than "You're not singing anymore" or whatever when the other club goes a goal down. It certainly does not mean we deserve it. (Well maybe the twats chucking missiles at the Boro coaches do, that's not acceptable but anyway they're massively in the minority.)

[LegalEagle]

Just now, MB said:

Losing Peretz is a massive blow, not too bothered about Larin, reminded me of Damion Downes in his last couple of days.

 

Have to try and keep Leo and Jander, keep both of those and we should have a  strong season next year. 

Not keeping Leo in a million years. We need the money from him to help us rebuild. Jander would be an amazing keep but he will go as well I fear.

[TheSoundman]

3 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Don’t players just return to their home clubs at the end of a loan period? If we have an option to buy that happens after they return?

Clutching at straws.

We had a deal in place to buy both if we got promoted, which says to me that we want them but needed to be sure we had the cash.  The selling clubs were happy to sell, it won't be them insisting that they'll only sell to a premier league team.

I imagine if we still want to complete a transfer for either the deal would still be there... except, would either want to come here now? They also both did so well that they'd probably get premier league offers elsewhere anyway.

[sadoldgit]

As we will find out next season when it all comes our way.

[SNSUN]

46 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

😎

 

He's even missed the fucking flames! This guy couldn't even catch a break.

[TheSoundman]

3 minutes ago, MB said:

Losing Peretz is a massive blow, not too bothered about Larin, reminded me of Damion Downes in his last couple of games.

Have to try and keep Leo and Jander, keep both of those and we should have a  strong season next year. 

They're both under contract. If they want to go, there still has to be an acceptable offer.

[Saint Fan CaM]

8 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Oxford will still be in the EFL next season, just not in the Championship. So I expect it's more likely that these were just the only ones there was compelling evidence for and it's just coincidence that neither of them will be in the same league next season.

I thought it had been said that it’s only the Championship where this rule applies, but I guess it’s across the whole EFL then? Nevertheless, I still find it strange that these are the only two clubs that Boro had ‘evidence’ from in terms of gathering a case in readiness for their defeat in the semi’s - no coincidence really.

[sotonjoe]

2 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

This is why he’s a journalist and not a successful businessman. 

I'm pleased you didn't refer to him as a "successful journalist." 

 

Edited 55 minutes ago by sotonjoe
Spelling

[Hamwic]

I don't know if it has been posted elsewhere, but BBC Sport now reporting the FA are investigating. I'm sure the internal investigation will punish the innocent, reward the guilty and deputy heads will roll. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

I see there’s a report (BBC?) that the FA are now looking at the evidence. Does that mean they have the power to impose further sanctions on the club such as a fine or even more points deduction? It really wouldn’t surprise me - there seems to be an endemic, corporate desire to bring the club to its knees.

[sadoldgit]

1 minute ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I see there’s a report (BBC?) that the FA are now looking at the evidence. Does that mean they have the power to impose further sanctions on the club such as a fine or even more points deduction? It really wouldn’t surprise me - there seems to be an endemic, corporate desire to bring the club to its knees.

Maybe they have got wind that is is widespread and are using us as an example to stamp it out?

[Saint86]

47 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

If anyone genuinely believes these were the only three instances, and not just the only ones for which there was evidence that we couldn't refute, then I've got some magic beans to sell them.

Sheaf, most clubs do it - if not basically all clubs. Its not even a rule in any other major league and is common practice. Its not a big deal ffs. Step outside of the media narrative. On this one occasion, we've been setup specifically by the whistle-blower and Boro, and then rinsed in the court of public opinion in an orchestrated media frenzy / witchhunt. The punishment is extreme, a potential (slow) club killer. Yes we were a little bit naughty, but more importantly we were spectacularly stupid and our handling of it was beyond incompetent to boot.

Saints (fans/media/club) need to stop the self flagellation/prostrating ASAP. Blackmore more than anyone else. I love his passion for the club, but he's hurting us every time he goes on air to give lip service to the establish boro narrative calling us morally repugnant etc. That is not going to help us. There is blood in the water, every club and the media all see it - and being weak now is the wrong course of action. There is a narrow window where we can mitigate the impacts of this and try to rebuild effectively for next season. It is time to close ranks, shut out the noise, and sort ourselves out. Take steps to repair the damage with the fans, the staff, and the players - and forget everything outside the club. The world will move on - spurs/west ham relegation, the CL final, the world cup, new city manager, 115 charges etc... This summer and next season is what matters to saints... Repeatedly going on air and giving oxygen to the idea that we're morally repugnant because we sent a kid with an iphone to a few training sessions is just furthering Parsons' self harm mantra. 

Edited 37 minutes ago by Saint86

[skintsaint]

Released pics of us spying on Oxford have emerged...

 

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 minute ago, sadoldgit said:

Maybe they have got wind that is is widespread and are using us as an example to stamp it out?

Not sure - ‘spyjng’ is not against the rules in the Premiership or so we’re told, so not seen as gaining an unfair advantage,  however the FA govern the entire English game so will want to be seen to acting to protect their reputation too I guess.

[Ldnsaint]

21 minutes ago, MB said:

Losing Peretz is a massive blow, not too bothered about Larin, reminded me of Damion Downes in his last couple of games.

Have to try and keep Leo and Jander, keep both of those and we should have a  strong season next year. 

No chance Jander stays after how he finished the season. Larin had one bad game and he's suddenly crap, some of our fans wrote him off before he even played a game 💤

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Sheaf, most clubs do it - if not basically all clubs. Its not even a rule in any other major league and is common practice. Its not a big deal ffs. Step outside of the media narrative. On this one occasion, we've been setup specifically by the whistle-blower and Boro, and then rinsed in the court of public opinion in an orchestrated media frenzy / witchhunt. The punishment is extreme, a potential (slow) club killer. Yes we were a little bit naughty, but more importantly we were spectacularly stupid and our handling of it was beyond incompetent to boot.

Saints (fans/media/club) need to stop the self flagellation ASAP. Its not going to help us.

Well you're the one doing it, claiming the punishment is extreme and a club killer. It's neither. We've essentially been deducted two points per game in which we've been proven to be cheating and forfeited a third one which fell outside the league/points system. That's not extreme. I've seen Roma given a 3-0 forfeit for a CL match in which one of their fans chucked a lighter at the ref and cracked his head open. That's basically what we've been given.

[RedWillie]

First time on the socials , just couldn't be arsed to see the abuse directed towards the club.

I feel disappointed, disillusioned and thoroughly peed off today.

The club have an awful lot to do to win us back.

UTS.

 

 

 

[Pengi]

30 minutes ago, MB said:

Losing Peretz is a massive blow, not too bothered about Larin, reminded me of Damion Downes in his last couple of games.

Have to try and keep Leo and Jander, keep both of those and we should have a  strong season next year. 

Get Rambo back?

[benjii]

35 minutes ago, MB said:

Losing Peretz is a massive blow, not too bothered about Larin, reminded me of Damion Downes in his last couple of games.

Have to try and keep Leo and Jander, keep both of those and we should have a  strong season next year. 

Can't see us keeping Jander. He's a £30m player and I don't think we'll be able to turn down offers like that. 

Leo is a funny one. Would be a hell of a gamble for a PL side and he might be too flaky at that level. 

If we could keep Leo, Azaz, Stewart, Matsuki, Robinson, Fellows, Bragg, Wood, Stephens, Bree, Manning/Wely we'd have something to build round.

Obviously we'd need to sort GK position, add a CB, add to CM (assuming Charles and Jander off, and maybe Downes) and another striker. But with decent loans that's not massively unrealistic.

Key is to get an experienced and competent management team in place ASAP.

Edited 28 minutes ago by benjii

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, Eire Saint said:

Boro stitched us up properly here. The whistleblower told them we'd be sending someone, it's obvious by how orchestrated this was. They had their info that we'd been doing this for a while. The angle of the photo they got of Salt was from a different direction than their training facility, so a photographer in situ. Got their photo before anyone approached him. 

The staff would've got a heads up, so zero chance any information or advantage would've been got. They then had the victim card ready to play. Media outrage, manager tears. A second chance card if they didn't beat us. They set a trap and their plan worked perfectly. 

In saying that what we have been doing was wrong and we've been so unbelievably stupid and naive. Punishment was disproportinate, but we did this to ourselves. 

If expulsion was to be our punishment, then either Boro should've faced Milwall for a shot at wembley, or Hull given promotion. Boro getting rewarded here is ridiculous. 

The thing that is so gutting is that it feels like such a sliding doors moment, a win on Saturday, we keep most of the players who got us there and despite this I still think Tonda is a manager who could've kept us in the prem. It's just a sickening feeling. We're staring into abyss again as a club. 

This is a great post. Sums it up perfectly, I too have the feeling Boro have played a dirty trick here to give themselves two shots at Wembley. Not saying what we did was ok, because how we laid this all on a plate for them is so fricking embarrassing and heads should roll for that alone.

But please, for the fairness in everything, Hull need to beat Boro - and those games against Boro next season are going to be seriously tasty.

[sockeye]

losing players like peretz and jander isn’t too bad. It was always in the cards if we lost to Hull. But not replacing them adequately will cost us not only promotion but maybe even the right to stay in the league. not sure if I have faith in us to do it because we always underestimate every task ahead of us. If spors is gone its gonna be very nervy

[bangkoksaint]

Think a few need a reality check over the squad for next season. It wont look anything like it did this season and will be bereft of quality

[ant]

It's interesting how much people are gunning for Hull, who themselves have been under a transfer embargo across the entire season. 

What a grim state football is in.

[TheSoundman]

2 minutes ago, bangkoksaint said:

Think a few need a reality check over the squad for next season. It wont look anything like it did this season and will be bereft of quality

If they have a contract, then they'll leave if the price is right. Simple as....

I also recall Spors saying we weren't spending all our money in this (the January) window because we might need a second shot at it next season. Now we'll see.

[saintant]

Let's face it this was a kangaroo court not a fair hearing. The punishment was set to appease the baying mob that was the media and football pundits, We did wrong, were stupid and deserved a big fine and points deduction but the masses decided we should be expelled and the hearing supported by the EFL duly obliged.

[Leighsterrr]

IF Boro go up, every single team can send an analyst to spy from that exact same spot...and there's nothing in the rule book to stop it

 

If that isn't irony what is?!

 

Anyone know when the full EFL report will be out? Just wondering how much of the evidence and full detail we will get to hear about

[saintant]

24 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Well you're the one doing it, claiming the punishment is extreme and a club killer. It's neither. We've essentially been deducted two points per game in which we've been proven to be cheating and forfeited a third one which fell outside the league/points system. That's not extreme. I've seen Roma given a 3-0 forfeit for a CL match in which one of their fans chucked a lighter at the ref and cracked his head open. That's basically what we've been given.

You say we've forfeited a game but seem to forget we've been denied the opportunity to compete in said match that earns the winner north of 200 million quid but I guess that's a small thing. We'll also lose sponsors and find it harder to attract new ones.

[saintant]

13 minutes ago, bangkoksaint said:

Think a few need a reality check over the squad for next season. It wont look anything like it did this season and will be bereft of quality

Only if most of those players get offers from Premier League clubs. A few will but not most. Some may decide to stay and fight for promotion next season because they likely won't be getting better offers.

[sadoldgit]

7 minutes ago, Leighsterrr said:

IF Boro go up, every single team can send an analyst to spy from that exact same spot...and there's nothing in the rule book to stop it

 

If that isn't irony what is?!

 

Anyone know when the full EFL report will be out? Just wondering how much of the evidence and full detail we will get to hear about

Hadn’t thought about that! They should all do it, if only for shits and giggles.

one of the many sickening things about this situation is that Middlesbrough get a second bite of the cherry after being beaten fair and square in the semi final. To get a golden ticket to the EPL (if they beat Hull) after losing in the competition to get there is just not right.

[Cuddles]

1 minute ago, sadoldgit said:

Hadn’t thought about that! They should all do it, if only for shits and giggles.

one of the many sickening things about this situation is that Middlesbrough get a second bite of the cherry after being beaten fair and square in the semi final. To get a golden ticket to the EPL (if they beat Hull) after losing in the competition to get there is just not right.

I'm not sure we can argue it was fair and square though, whatever we'd like to think 😂

[MarkSFC]

Well, its soaked in over night and now I feel calmer😂

My (less emotional) observations and thoughts about this whole situation and the actions ahead (fwiw) are this.

Eckert smd all those involved are either outright cheats at worst or totally naive and guilty of ignorance and a lack of fully understanding the scope and rules of his role and football in this country. 

His time at Barnsley reduce this mitigation of not knowing the rules significantly, and there also meams that his boss has some culpability in not ensuring he knew a rule that is important. 

Internal Actions on personnel.

Sack Spors for lack of control and for lack of ensuring his direct employee knew his job amd the rules. 

Sanction Eckert severely (final written warning if you like) if they truly believe he was unaware. Sack him immediately if they believe he deliberately broke the rules.

Sack anyone else who was aware they or others were cheating.

Having said that I find it very very difficult to believe that no one in the first team staff were unaware of the spying and also unaware of the rules. I find it extremely difficult to believe that Ben Garner (a former manager) was not aware. 

Moving forward, clear the decks of all those culpable. 

Employ a new manager and coaching team as quickly as possible. 

Secure the services of as many players as possible before the World Cup. This tournament always delays transfer business. 

I suspect though that these players will leave/not be signed;

Peretz, Ramsdale, THB, Jander, Charles, Leo, Larin, and Azaz

Others who knows. 

The club needs to provide the fans with as much goodwill and monetary pay back as it is possible to do. 

This should include at minimum

- a discount for ST renewers 

- refunds for play-off tickets and travel costs to Boro away game

- a refund or free tickets for those who went to any away game based on number

- a refund or free tickets for those who went to any home game based on number

These actions will take time to figure out and to action but should be of high priority.

Dragon needs to remove Phil Parsons. He is ultimately responsible for the business as a whole on a day to day basis. Unwittingly perhaps he has been caught out by a employee (or group of employees) but also it seems acted poorly when faced with the situation and information. CEO positions come with high reward and also high responsibily. Also, there will be many people more capable out there. 

A fresh CEO, a fresh DoF, a fresh First Team Manager (and staff) is clearly a huge change all in a matter of weeks and summer break but I think this is the only way we can be seen to be taking this very seriously indeed and resetting the culture. 

Who knows who these people could be but I would go for 

DoF......Roy Hodgson (for a year or so)

Manager....Scott Parker

The summer will be very interesting (as it seems it always is recently) and at least we have the World Cup to distract us😂

 

Keep the faith. I love this club and always will even when things go very badly wrong!!

 

[saintant]

9 minutes ago, Leighsterrr said:

IF Boro go up, every single team can send an analyst to spy from that exact same spot...and there's nothing in the rule book to stop it

 

If that isn't irony what is?!

 

Anyone know when the full EFL report will be out? Just wondering how much of the evidence and full detail we will get to hear about

It won't worry them as what we did didn't worry them. The probability is they orchestrated it so they'd have a contingency plan if we beat them - which we did so they put the contingency plan in full swing and it worked like a dream.

[Football Special]

16 minutes ago, ant said:

It's interesting how much people are gunning for Hull, who themselves have been under a transfer embargo across the entire season. 

What a grim state football is in.

Of course we'd want Hull to win, Middlesbrough are there through dirty tricks ably assisted by our stupidity 

[sadoldgit]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

Only if most of those players get offers from Premier League clubs. A few will but not most. Some may decide to stay and fight for promotion next season because they likely won't be getting better offers.

Yep. Assuming that the club doesn’t implode we must be one of the favourites to go up next year. As grim as everything looks right now, we still have the potential to be a big hitter in this division. There is no reason we will not be an attractive proposition once the dust has settled.

[sadoldgit]

1 minute ago, Cuddles said:

I'm not sure we can argue it was fair and square though, whatever we'd like to think 😂

Did you watch the games? If we gained any advantage through Will Salt’s fudged attempt at espionage I’d love to know what it was.