Saints Expelled from Playoffs

[Lighthouse]

13 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I'm not saying it's acceptable, but it is massively overblown IMO.

If you cheat, you don't get to keep your winnings. It's that simple.

[TheSoundman]

1 minute ago, beatlesaint said:

I guess everyone who will face FA charges needs to be sacked before it gets to that then the club have been seen to act. Whatever charges those involved face can be for their next employer to suck up…..unless as I suspect they move to a European club etc

Yes, sack them as long as you follow due process. I assume the internal investigation proved guilt of said individuals.

You don't want to end up in an employee biased tribunal. You know how it goes, 'He may be guilty but you didn't give him 3 written warnings. Now pay him £50k for the hurt caused.'

[Tommy]

1 minute ago, TheSoundman said:

No they can't. It's an EFL competition, hence all the Leicester shenanigans. 

You need to prove that one mate rather than trying to wind people up further 

It will be a different charge and the FA have widespread powers. 
 

we will get charged under E3 of the Standard Code of Rules. 
 

while it would be incredulous for them to issue points on the club, they could. But is more likely to be a club fine and then each of the individuals will also get charged

[Pamplemousse]

24 minutes ago, LegalEagle said:

Bend over and accept what is coming. When we win our first 5 games of next season this will get forgotten very quickly.

If anything, the -4 will hopefully focus the minds that we have to get off to fast start and make up ground. Gain some early momentum.

[Thripp87]

1 hour ago, macca155 said:

Losing a clearly talented manager is another blow, but clearly inevitable.

It's a harsh punishment but Saints put themselves there. The club's response has been dreadful, they've shafted their own fans and players.

Early door sackings to appease the vultures at the gate. Then they need to take their time and make some decent appointments for once.

There are are a lot of decent youngsters still on the books, so it's a good opportunity to bring them on. Add in some grizzled experienced pros, and above all else a manager like Dyche or Lampard who can rebuild us.

 

 

He may not be a talented manager, and we have no proof now he is. He should be referred to asterisk, and that’s being polite.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Thripp87

[Patrick Bateman]

2 minutes ago, Tommy said:

It will be a different charge and the FA have widespread powers. 
 

we will get charged under E3 of the Standard Code of Rules. 
 

while it would be incredulous for them to issue points on the club, they could. But is more likely to be a club fine and then each of the individuals will also get charged

Two separate things.

The Standard Code of Rules is for grassroots football. FA rule E3 is for misconduct, which can NOT lead to a points deduction, but could lead to fines for the club and individuals and bans for individuals.

A further points deduction is NOT possible.

[Cabrone]

A lot of ppl are gunning for Tonda but I'm going to take his words on face value that he genuinely didn't know about the 72 hour rule. Controversial I know but I do think he was very badly managed himself.

For me the real idiots are the board. They get paid the big bucks to make sure everyone complies with the rules and that everyone knows what the rules are. Gross incompetency from them and I'd be happy to see all of them fired today. Quit your endless word salad and self congratulations and actually run the club properly.

So personally I'd stick with Tonda (assuming he's not going to get banned by the FA over this). He'll be burning for some kind of redemption. We should tell him to swallow the shit that is going to come his way and that the minimum next season is top 2. I think he's good enough to get it. After all this business would have barely given us any advantage anyway and he did take us from relegation candidates to almost top 2. He owes us.

We can either come together or fall apart.

[TheSoundman]

2 minutes ago, Tommy said:

It will be a different charge and the FA have widespread powers. 
 

we will get charged under E3 of the Standard Code of Rules. 
 

while it would be incredulous for them to issue points on the club, they could. But is more likely to be a club fine and then each of the individuals will also get charged

It may be as you say Tommy, the FA never fail to amaze me, they are the EFL's big brother after all.

I'd love to hear their argument that the club hasn't been punished enough!!!

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I'd like to hear from Dragan Solak ASAP, not the people under him. 

Yep, this... He should be putting himself up for interview this morning, but I suspect he'll end up keeping a low profile, which will send completely the wrong message IMO... Will he read the room and surprise me...? I have my doubts...

(I guess the excuse will be: we can't talk to the media / fans until we've concluded our international investigation and/or the FA have concluded their inquiry)

Edited 1 hour ago by trousers

[benjii]

Just now, Cabrone said:

A lot of ppl are gunning for Tonda but I'm going to take his words on face value that he genuinely didn't know about the 72 hour rule. Controversial I know but I do think he was very badly managed himself.

For me the real idiots are the board. They get paid the big bucks to make sure everyone complies with the rules and that everyone knows what the rules are. Gross incompetency from them and I'd be happy to see all of them fired today. Quit your endless word salad and self congratulations and actually run the club properly.

So personally I'd stick with Tonda (assuming he's not going to get banned by the FA over this). He'll be burning for some kind of redemption. We should tell him to swallow the shit that is going to come his way and that the minimum next season is top 2. I think he's good enough to get it. After all this business would have barely given us any advantage anyway and he did take us from relegation candidates to almost top 2. He owes us.

We can either come together or fall apart.

I think it's too much of a risk to stick with Tonda, regardless of the other merits. We can't go through the summer trying to build a squad to then find our manager gets a one year ban in, say August.

[saintant]

58 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

He has proved himself to be an excellent coach, that much is certain. He broke a stupid rule, so what? It doesn’t mean he isn’t any good. Despite everything, it is what happens on the pitch that is important and he proved himself up to it no matter what.

i don’t know if it has been mentioned, but Thierry Henry has written a brilliant piece about this on X.

I have to be honest, this is a difficult one. Spying on another team’s training is wrong. Full stop. It crosses a line, it undermines the trust that should exist between clubs, and I understand why Middlesbrough are furious and why the EFL felt they had to act strongly. Integrity matters in this game.

At the same time, I find myself questioning whether expulsion from the play-offs is the right punishment. It feels… heavy. Almost like using a sledgehammer when a precise scalpel was needed.

Let’s be clear: this wasn’t match-fixing or doping. It was analysts pushing boundaries for tactical information, something that, sadly, has happened in different forms across the game for years. 

Marcelo Bielsa did it openly at Derby and Leeds, admitted it, and people called him a genius, not a criminal. Drones, analysts in trees, whatever, in the modern game with data and marginal gains everywhere, clubs push boundaries. 

Southampton admitted it, yes, and they deserve punishment. A heavy fine, points deduction, maybe even a ban for the staff involved. But kicking the entire club out after they earned their place on the pitch? That punishes players, coaches, and fans who had nothing to do with one or two analysts doing something stupid. 

What troubles me most is the collateral damage. The players who battled through a tough Championship season after relegation, who went to extra time and scored that late goal to beat Middlesbrough on the pitch, they earned their place in the final through merit. 

Now that achievement is being erased because of actions taken by a small number of staff members. That feels disproportionate to me. A significant fine, a points deduction for next season, and sanctions against the individuals responsible, those would be strong, meaningful punishments that address the breach without nullifying an entire season’s competitive work.

Sport has to balance two things: protecting fairness and recognising that human error and ambition sometimes lead people astray. If every rules breach in high-stakes moments leads to rewriting results, we risk turning the disciplinary process into something more powerful than the football itself. I’ve sat in dressing rooms where we prepared meticulously for opponents. Everyone does. The difference is getting caught.

I hope Southampton appeal and that the final decision finds a better equilibrium. Middlesbrough deserve respect, they were wronged but the players of Southampton also deserve not to have their legitimate efforts wiped away. Football is emotional, passionate, and imperfect. 

The response to this should reflect wisdom as much as outrage. We need clearer rules going forward so incidents like this become rare, but we must be careful not to let one mistake destroy what was built legitimately on the grass.

A great and measured common sense response from Thierry Henry. Most of the other pundits weighing in on this could learn from him but it's clear he has far more brain cells than them.

[Whitey Grandad]

7 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

If you cheat, you don't get to keep your winnings. It's that simple.

Simple is one thing it isn't. 

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, Cabrone said:

A lot of ppl are gunning for Tonda but I'm going to take his words on face value that he genuinely didn't know about the 72 hour rule. Controversial I know but I do think he was very badly managed himself.

For me the real idiots are the board. They get paid the big bucks to make sure everyone complies with the rules and that everyone knows what the rules are. Gross incompetency from them and I'd be happy to see all of them fired today. Quit your endless word salad and self congratulations and actually run the club properly.

So personally I'd stick with Tonda (assuming he's not going to get banned by the FA over this). He'll be burning for some kind of redemption. We should tell him to swallow the shit that is going to come his way and that the minimum next season is top 2. I think he's good enough to get it. After all this business would have barely given us any advantage anyway and he did take us from relegation candidates to almost top 2. He owes us.

We can either come together or fall apart.

A reasonable stance to take IMO. Unpopular, but reasonable! 

[sadoldgit]

I started supporting the Saints back in 1966 so this is my 60th year (coincidentally it is Mrs Sogs 60th birthday) and I was looking forward to something special (football wise 😉) at the end of this season. 
Professional football was a joy to watch when I started following the club. Over the years though big money (starting with SKY) has been ruining the game. Diving, widespread financial corruption, VAR, the stranglehold on the EPL by the “big” clubs, lack of loyalty to your club only to the biggest paycheck…the list goes on. And now this. Trump’s World Cup holds no interest for me but even our domestic football has become badly tainted. Not by “Spygate” but by the massive overreaction to it. Checking out the opposition, scouting, had been part of football for ever.

Yes, we broke the rules and deserved to be punished. What has actually happened is that we have been hung out to dry for all of the biggest sins in football. The number of hugely respected names in football who have come out and said that this cheating of ours is no big deal says it all. 

When you spend most of your time arguing over finding scapegoats and who should be sacked, something has gone deeply wrong. Even without this much of the season is spent slagging off owners, managers, coaches, players, pundits, other fans etc. As with politics, everything now seems to be consumed by manufactured psychodramas.

What a crock of shit it all is.
 

Edited 9 minutes ago by sadoldgit
Typo

[ChrisPY]

9 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I'd like to hear from Dragan Solak ASAP, not the people under him. 

 

Jim White has said he’s getting a flight to England this morning so expect we’ll hear something this afternoon/evening.

[trousers]

10 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

If you get caught cheating, you don't get to keep your winnings. It's that simple.

Tweaked it for you

[LegalEagle]

1 minute ago, benjii said:

I think it's too much of a risk to stick with Tonda, regardless of the other merits. We can't go through the summer trying to build a squad to then find our manager gets a one year ban in, say August.

As we sit here now I’m struggling to see how he won’t get a ban. He will be back in Germany within a week or two. That’s him done in English football. The sad thing is that I think he will make a great success of his career. Who knows, one day he’ll be the German national coach. This is what makes it all the sadder. He’s a talented chap.

[TwoPints]

1 minute ago, ChrisPY said:

Jim White has said he’s getting a flight to England this morning so expect we’ll hear something this afternoon/evening.

Just spotted this on Wikipedia (I know!):

"Following Southampton's relegation from the Premier League after Sport Republic's first full season in charge, Šolak admitted that the club's owners were too distant to have a full understanding of what was happening and pledged that they would be more involved in future."

I wonder if he did get more involved. 🤔 

[LegalEagle]

1 minute ago, LegalEagle said:

As we sit here now I’m struggling to see how he won’t get a ban. He will be back in Germany within a week or two. That’s him done in English football. The sad thing is that I think he will make a great success of his career. Who knows, one day he’ll be the German national coach. This is what makes it all the sadder. He’s a talented chap.

Saying all that, he’s the kind that Rangers might go for………

[S-Clarke]

25 minutes ago, trousers said:

All fair enough if he was in the dark, but he's been in the dark with everything which has been going on here.

How long do we give him the slack to be so 'unaware' of the utter mess charlatans are making of his investment? He has had plenty of opportunities to be closer to the action, yet he still doesn't seemingly have a full handle over it.

[sadoldgit]

12 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

If you cheat, you don't get to keep your winnings. It's that simple.

And yet we saw the FA Cup played out between to two clubs who are being investigated for cheating, one of which gets to keep its winnings.

Your statement would be fine if it applied to every episode of cheating, yet we see, week in, week out, that cheats in football prosper.

[sockeye]

Thought Solak was taking a more active role this season. 

[saintant]

53 minutes ago, Livewire said:

I cannot believe anyone thinks Tonda can stay. For one, he and whoever else was involved will be charged by the FA and likely suspended from football for a period. For another, he is in breach of contract with the club and likely masterminded this spying disaster. If you don't believe me, look up Bev Priestman as a precedent. Not to mention that there are reports about the players maybe suing the club - certainly there may be an argument that the club has been in repudiatory breach of its contract with them, so they are no longer bound by it either. There are lots of dominoes that are yet to fall, and I fear that we will have a squad that will be very thin once the PL-level talent leaves. 

Don't think Leeds sacked Bielsa did they? Also did the league punish him other than the club fine which he claims he paid?

[saintant]

52 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

This is now about bringing charges to the individuals.

The EFL have punished the fans and players, now the FA will punish the individuals who actually did it.

Feels backwards but there we are.

Was Bielsa ever punished for doing it all through the season?

[qwertyell]

Can't help thinking this can all be traced back to Krueger not delivering his five pledges.

Since he left us hanging, the club has been stuck in a pledgeless death spiral.

Damn you, Krueger. Damn you to hell. Or Canada. 

[SaintsLoyal]

Did anyone see meridian news ? there was talk from a fan taking legal advice on season ticket recompensation.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, qwertyell said:

Can't help thinking this can all be traced back to Krueger not delivering his five pledges.

Since he left us hanging, the club has been stuck in a pledgeless death spiral.

Damn you, Krueger. Damn you to hell. Or Canada. 

🤣

Real sliding door moment right there

[skintsaint]

Just now, saintant said:

Was Bielsa ever punished for doing it all through the season?

Think he paid the £200k fine.

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

Was Bielsa ever punished for doing it all through the season?

Other than him paying the 200k fine, no.

In fact the media pleaded for the authorities to not even give him a touchline ban, as it would be so unjust (quote, henry winter).

So he paid the fine, that was that. No bans, no sanctions. Laughed off. Same crime.

Edited 52 minutes ago by S-Clarke

[manji]

I have no agenda with this but getting rid of Tonda , Sports Republic etc at this time would be insane. Can no one remember the trouble we had before ? Years of chaos ,wasted opportunity we were blessed by Markus Leiber. 
im aware of previous transfer windows but the last one turned out alright. Promotion season was a fuck up at the start we should have pissed automatics. The same as this season chaos at the beginning again we could have pissed the automatics. 
This is my club frankly I don’t give a fuck about the morality. Draw a line under this and reboot as quickly as possible.

[Mk1J]

12 minutes ago, Cabrone said:

A lot of ppl are gunning for Tonda but I'm going to take his words on face value that he genuinely didn't know about the 72 hour rule. Controversial I know but I do think he was very badly managed himself.

For me the real idiots are the board. They get paid the big bucks to make sure everyone complies with the rules and that everyone knows what the rules are. Gross incompetency from them and I'd be happy to see all of them fired today. Quit your endless word salad and self congratulations and actually run the club properly.

So personally I'd stick with Tonda (assuming he's not going to get banned by the FA over this). He'll be burning for some kind of redemption. We should tell him to swallow the shit that is going to come his way and that the minimum next season is top 2. I think he's good enough to get it. After all this business would have barely given us any advantage anyway and he did take us from relegation candidates to almost top 2. He owes us.

We can either come together or fall apart.

Would be a massive 2 fingers to the EFL if we stick with him and get promoted next year. I can’t see how he doesn’t get banned, but I also can’t see us getting a better manager. Or even a vaguely acceptable manager given the past few years. 

[Barry the Badger]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Other than him paying the 200k fine, no.

In fact the media pleaded for the authorities to not even give him a touchline ban, as it would be so unjust (quote, henry winter).

So he paid the fine, that was that. No bans, no sanctions. Laughed off. Same crime.

But it would have been unjust because there wasn't a rule saying you couldn't do it. Now there is. It's really not worth comparing to Leeds.

[manji]

11 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I started supporting the Saints back in 1966 so this is my 60th year (coincidentally it is Mrs Sogs 60th birthday) and I was looking forward to something special (football wise 😉) at the end of this season. 
Professional football was a joy to watch when I started following the club. Over the years though big money (starting with SKY) has been ruining the game. Diving, widespread financial corruption, VAR, the stranglehold on the EPL by the “big” clubs, lack of loyalty to your club only to the biggest paycheck…the list goes on. And now this. Trump’s World Cup holds no interest for me but even our domestic football has become badly tainted. Not by “Spygate” but by the massive overreaction to it. Checking out the opposition, scouting, had been part of football for ever.

Yes, we broke the rules and deserved to be punished. What has actually happened is the we have been hung out to dry for all of the biggest sins of football. The number of hugely respected names in football who have come out and said that this cheating of ours is no big deal says it all. 

When you spend most of your time arguing over finding scapegoats and who should be sacked, something has gone deeply wrong. Even without this much of the season is spent slagging off owners, managers, coaches, players, pundits, other fans etc. As with politics, everything now seems to be consumed by manufactured psychodramas.

What a crock of shit it all is.
 

Couldn’t have put it better. Everything politics, football even art is being warped by manufactured drama. 
Has no one heard of the Indian databases ? They use AI to pick a story this generates social media accounts they make a fortune out of clicks. I will find a decent link about this.

[Britannia]

Even irrespective of FA sanctions, How can TE command respect in a dressing room?

4 minutes ago, Mk1J said:

Would be a massive 2 fingers to the EFL if we stick with him and get promoted next year. I can’t see how he doesn’t get banned, but I also can’t see us getting a better manager. Or even a vaguely acceptable manager given the past few years. 

Much like how the BBC is run now, we have to be squeeky clean from now on.  Everyone is watching.

[saintant]

28 minutes ago, Oldandtired said:

Collusion between all the powers that be to take the spotlight off Man City...

Simon Jordan said something along these lines. He said the EPL is far more relaxed and willing to let things go without getting involve whereas the EFL is all about look at us, aren't we the good guys.

[OldNick]

3 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

Agree about Parsons needing to go but no way can Tonda stay. We can't restore any sort of reputation with him as manager. 

I want Parsons to stay, outside of the playing side he has been shrewd and got extra income in. Very important, especially whre we are today

[AlexLaw76]

[spyinthesky]

10 minutes ago, SaintsLoyal said:

Did anyone see meridian news ? there was talk from a fan taking legal advice on season ticket recompensation.

Ridiculous reaction!!

[S-Clarke]

9 minutes ago, manji said:

I have no agenda with this but getting rid of Tonda , Sports Republic etc at this time would be insane. Can no one remember the trouble we had before ? Years of chaos ,wasted opportunity we were blessed by Markus Leiber. 
im aware of previous transfer windows but the last one turned out alright. Promotion season was a fuck up at the start we should have pissed automatics. The same as this season chaos at the beginning again we could have pissed the automatics. 
This is my club frankly I don’t give a fuck about the morality. Draw a line under this and reboot as quickly as possible.

Can no one remember the trouble we had before? What?

What about the trouble we have now? Do you ever look at the current situation? The trouble we have now is REAL, CURRENT. It isn't changing. They have relegated us TWICE, once with a record low total, spent £300m on absolute shite, gone through too many managers to remember, and have now managed to orchestrate our removal from a final because of our incompetence. The EFL have been ridiculous, yes, but this is another sorry show on their watch.

We will start next season on -4 points. We are in the midst of chaos today, not tomorrow, not in the past. Today.

Wake the hell up Manji. Your head isn't just in the sand, it's been buried in it and it's about to resurface on an Australian beach.

Edited 42 minutes ago by S-Clarke

[scumbag]

10 minutes ago, saintant said:

Was Bielsa ever punished for doing it all through the season?

No, not personally. It was all really funny apparently, and the same people raging against us thought that even a touchline ban was going too far.

[SNSUN]

51 minutes ago, LegalEagle said:

Bend over and accept what is coming. When we win our first 5 games of next season this will get forgotten very quickly.

6 nil win against QPR in a 4-3-3 formation opening day. Hattrick for Downs, 2 for Archer, 1 for BBD. Whatever were we worried about. #hmspisstheleague 

[Hopper]

29 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

If you cheat, you don't get to keep your winnings. It's that simple.

My dyslexic brain read you don't get to keep your wingers, which in the case of Scienza is probably true 😂

[Football Special]

18 minutes ago, LegalEagle said:

As we sit here now I’m struggling to see how he won’t get a ban. He will be back in Germany within a week or two. That’s him done in English football. The sad thing is that I think he will make a great success of his career. Who knows, one day he’ll be the German national coach. This is what makes it all the sadder. He’s a talented chap.

Yes the sad thing is we really didn't need to do it , especially so blatantly, he needed an older head alongside him. I know for sure we wouldn't have been spying on Fulham, Arsenal, Man City, you just can't wonder up to those training sessions with an iPhone. The players and Tonda have proved they can do it , a real shame 

[LeBizzier69]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Can no one remember the trouble we had before? What?

What about the trouble we have now? Do you ever look at the current situation? The trouble we have now is REAL, CURRENT. It isn't changing. They have relegated us TWICE, once with a record low total, spent £300m on absolute shite, gone through too many managers to remember, and have now managed to orchestrate our removal from a final because of our incompetence. The EFL have been ridiculous, yes, but this 

We will start next season on -4 points. We are in the midst of chaos today, not tomorrow, not in the past. Today.

Wake the hell up Manji. Your head isn't just in the sand, it's been buried in it and it's about to resurface on an Australian beach.

Do you want Solak to sell up then? 

[S-Clarke]

Just now, LeBizzier69 said:

Do you want Solak to sell up then? 

Absolutely. Sell up, take the financial hit as they deserve to lose out financially given what they've done to us, and give the keys to someone who knows an inch about football.

[Osvaldorama]

1 minute ago, LeBizzier69 said:

Do you want Solak to sell up then? 

I do. 
 

I’ve been done with him a while.
 

Everything he touches turns to shit. 

The end of season run glossed over the clubs overall ineptitude, but here we are. They have lurched from crisis to crisis  under his ‘leadership’ and never learn anything. Complete joker. 
 

It’s been said many times but I honestly don’t understand how Solak earned his money because he is a complete buffoon. 

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Absolutely. Sell up, take the financial hit as they deserve to lose out financially given what they've done to us, and give the keys to someone who knows an inch about football.

Whilst acknowledging there are "careful what you wish for" / "frying pan into the fire" arguments against this, my gut feeling is that a total reset (i.e. "Sport Republic Out!") is probably the best way forward in the long run, on balance.

Edited 32 minutes ago by trousers

[skintsaint]

After sleeping on it, Saints royally fecked up by not taking this seriously I feel. Tonda smirking away when being asked about it, just saying he will talk about what happened once its over. Alongside what happened supposedly in the boardroom at the Riverside. Think we were a bit blaise about the whole thing from the start admitting everything, until we were booted from the final and then it was too late. Massive cockup.

[LeBizzier69]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

Absolutely. Sell up, take the financial hit as they deserve to lose out financially given what they've done to us, and give the keys to someone who knows an inch about football.

Fair enough. Personally i think we've got a very well intentioned owner who's backed us financially to the hilt but who's surrounded himself with the wrong people who've frittered away his ££ on dross...largely.

 

[sockeye]

6 minutes ago, LeBizzier69 said:

Do you want Solak to sell up then? 

Please