The Spygate Saga

[saintant]

I'm wondering if we'd sacked Tonda back when spygate first reared its ugly head would the FA have pursued their case against him? Yes, he'd have been out of the game but he'd still committed the crime so I guess the answer is yes they would have.

[Charlie Wayman]

1 hour ago, Jack said:

Just catching up with this. Fuck me, Parsons needs removing from his position ASAP, he’s done more than enough damage already and will only make things worse. “We’ve had to pay loads of money in court fees” isn’t going to mitigate anything, it isn’t going to get any sympathy, isn’t going to make the FA change their stance, isn’t going to wash with the fans. His video will do absolutely nothing in a positive sense and can only make things worse IMO. We got caught cheating, don’t then moan about the bills we’ve paid to try to get out of it. 
 

Tonda’s you can kind of understand, just fair enough questions about how he’s feeling and how he wants it over with. Parsons coming out to beg for leniency when the outcome is clearly already decided is pathetic. Need some proper leadership at the top to turn things around for this club, not this muppet. 

Don't you think that the CEO's statement was aimed at the media and for internal consumption rather than the FA?

[Charlie Wayman]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

I'm wondering if we'd sacked Tonda back when spygate first reared its ugly head would the FA have pursued their case against him? Yes, he'd have been out of the game but he'd still committed the crime so I guess the answer is yes they would have.

I like your new approach to debate saintant, pose a hypothetical question then answer it yourself. Probably the best way to avoid naysayers.

[Disco Stu]

10 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Would end up with this guy just to sum the last 5 months up...

We'll need a hands on coach to motivate the players once the FA have had their way with us.

[Jack]

31 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Don't you think that the CEO's statement was aimed at the media and for internal consumption rather than the FA?

If it was, it’s still playing the victim rather than taking any responsibility or ownership. It’s just all looks so amateurish and shit. It’s decided, just have to take our medicine now. 

[Wade Garrett]

14 hours ago, LiberalCommunist said:

Remember when Hoddle took temporally charge when Jones was put on leave? From day one, there was no way back. 

Now, although different, this would be the same. 

If he goes, he completely goes. No waiting in the wings for six months. Fuck that. 

We cannot afford to be persecuted indefinitely for this issue. Its gone on too long. 

If we sacked him at the time it would have been over for the club.  This is the path the club chose to go down.

Personally, I think it’s the wrong path and have thought that from day one.

[Eire Saint]

On 21/09/2026 at 09:34, Eire Saint said:

Worked for Boro. 

In May we stayed silent, and got absolutely hammered. Don't think it's a bad idea to remind people we've already been punished twice for this. The first being probably the biggest sporting sanction in football history. The second a points deduction for this season to hamper our progress. This narrative that it's just a punishment for Tonda is bullshit, it's a third punishment for the club after the season has started. The FA pissing about for 4 months makes any punishment worse as we've no time to adjust.

The club in a no win here. Say nothing, we're weak and spineless. Come out to try to plead our case, everyone goes nuts.

I'm okay with the latter. 

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/19m9PpTrzd/

Wait a minute. That's exactly what I said.. 🤔

[Saint86]

3 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

If we sacked him at the time it would have been over for the club.  This is the path the club chose to go down.

Personally, I think it’s the wrong path and have thought that from day one.

It was always a gamble with respect to further punishment. Doesn't change the fact he is a very young and promising/good coach, nor that the club are entitled to handle disciplinary matters internally for their staff. Lets not for one second pretend that the punishment the club received was excessive, and anything more than a fine and a very short touchline ban for eckert would be similar... The one thing the club can't be blamed for, is being punished 3timess over a prolonged 6 week period, with each punishment being draconian. 

The absolute worst case punishment i think any realistic person could have anticipated is being kicked out of the playoffs (draconian - fine much more likely), and eckert being handed a 3-6month ban(again, extremely draconian given comparable offences for similar ban durations in the English game), it is not like he's broken the law (i.e., assaulted someone, utilized doping, or racially abused someone etc). But regardless, you plan for the worst case as a contingency, you don't operate under the expectation the worst case comes to fruition.

The rational punishment for him is a fine and sporting sanction - ranging from a suspended ban to a short touchline ban of circa 4 games max imho.

Edited 2 hours ago by Saint86

[Roo1976]

were going to get hammered,and not because we were somewhat in the wrong,(plenty of cheating on the field,oh and lets not forget VARs huge fuck up) but because were not in the big club scenario and dont have bags of money to keep accepting wrong doings(Chelsea) whys has it taken so long for the outcome,afterall we were kicked out within a week of this coming to light what could possibly be the delay?

[freshen up]

Wonder if Tonda will get more than this:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/13465881/milutin-osmajic-preston-striker-given-nine-match-ban-and-lb21-000-fine-for-alleged-racial-abuse-of-burnleys-hannibal

[Wade Garrett]

4 minutes ago, freshen up said:

Wonder if Tonda will get more than this:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/13465881/milutin-osmajic-preston-striker-given-nine-match-ban-and-lb21-000-fine-for-alleged-racial-abuse-of-burnleys-hannibal

John Terry got 4 matches for calling Anton Ferdinand a black c*nt….

[freshen up]

1 minute ago, Wade Garrett said:

John Terry got 4 matches for calling Anton Ferdinand a black c*nt….

Jesus christ. Didn't realise it was that low.

[obelisk]

22 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

The rational punishment for him is a fine and sporting sanction - ranging from a suspended ban to a short touchline ban of circa 4 games ma

That would be sensible but we're in the hands of the General Melchett type blazers of the FA here where Tonda is the sort of sacrifice they're likely to want to pillory. That some Saints supporters seem to be looking forward to a lengthy sentence rather than a fight back totally baffles me.

[Winnersaint]

Looking back at the original incident, did Will Salt forget that Monday was a Bank Holiday and thought Thursday was Wednesday?

[LordHester]

1 minute ago, Winnersaint said:

Looking back at the original incident, did Will Salt forget that Monday was a Bank Holiday and thought Thursday was Wednesday?

I'm not sure a defence of being completely incompetent is going to help us here.

[obelisk]

2 minutes ago, Winnersaint said:

Looking back at the original incident, did Will Salt forget that Monday was a Bank Holiday and thought Thursday was Wednesday?

A handy reminder that the alleged serious crime of standing in a public place watching footballers have a kick about is allowed on one day but not the next. Makes the whole saga even more baffling to the outside world.

[SaintsLoyal]

Mentioning court fees is very tinpot and the sort of thing that i didnt want to see in any interview.

I imagine theyve done this on the basis of criticism about no media during the May saga. 

However,  back then i would have only made it known sideways in the media about the obvious Boro media disclosure esp the photo and data leak on a cash card.

 

  

[saintant]

45 minutes ago, obelisk said:

A handy reminder that the alleged serious crime of standing in a public place watching footballers have a kick about is allowed on one day but not the next. Makes the whole saga even more baffling to the outside world.

And a handy reminder that the Boro club photographer was carrying a powerful zoom lens at a training session and decided to reel off a few long range snaps of an unknown geezer stood by a tree with an I-phone. This in a public place where there is a hotel and golf course so clearly not unusual for people to be visible.

[Nordic Saint]

6 minutes ago, saintant said:

And a handy reminder that the Boro club photographer was carrying a powerful zoom lens at a training session and decided to reel off a few long range snaps of an unknown geezer stood by a tree with an I-phone. This in a public place where there is a hotel and golf course so clearly not unusual for people to be visible.

Yes the real spy in all this was the young Boro analyst who came down for a brief spell here before returning to Boro and reporting back everything about how Saints analysts operated.

Gibson's employee on the EFL Board and the ex-Boro player on the disciplinary panel saw to the rest.

Edited 3 hours ago by Nordic Saint

[Football Special]

12 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

Yes the real spy in all this was the young Boro analyst who came down for a brief spell here before returning to Boro and reporting back everything about how Saints analysts operated.

Gibson's employee on the EFL Board and the ex-Boro player on the disciplinary panel saw to the rest.

Agree.

Its like a plot from a cold war spy movie 

[Midfield_General]

1 hour ago, LordHester said:

I'm not sure a defence of being completely incompetent is going to help us here.

Well that's Parsons fucked then

[saintant]

21 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

Yes the real spy in all this was the young Boro analyst who came down for a brief spell here before returning to Boro and reporting back everything about how Saints analysts operated.

Gibson's employee on the EFL Board and the ex-Boro player on the disciplinary panel saw to the rest.

That's how I think it unfolded. Not excusing us but there are questions marks against Boro in all of this.

[Teamsaint1]

4 minutes ago, saintant said:

That's how I think it unfolded. Not excusing us but there are questions marks against Boro in all of this.

Exactly. Disappointing that the press haven't picked up on this aspect as much as they should have.

[Saint Fan CaM]

I reckon he’s going to get a three month ban from EFL games. There’s something bent going on in all of this and behind the scenes there are Boro finger prints - the entire narrative is against the club and Parsons latest comments just show there is no competency at the club to counter the shitshow even now.

[EssEffCee]

52 minutes ago, SaintsLoyal said:

Mentioning court fees is very tinpot and the sort of thing that i didnt want to see in any interview.

I imagine theyve done this on the basis of criticism about no media during the May saga. 

However,  back then i would have only made it known sideways in the media about the obvious Boro media disclosure esp the photo and data leak on a cash card.

 

  

There was no data leak on a cash card.

[EssEffCee]

1 hour ago, obelisk said:

A handy reminder that the alleged serious crime of standing in a public place watching footballers have a kick about is allowed on one day but not the next. Makes the whole saga even more baffling to the outside world.

To be fair that applies to lots of things where there's a hard line for a limit.

Agree though that if they deem it such a serious issue there should be discussions about making it a total ban.

[saintant]

25 minutes ago, Teamsaint1 said:

Exactly. Disappointing that the press haven't picked up on this aspect as much as they should have.

Doesn't suit their agenda. Gibbo seems to have a lot of sway with them.

[23rdSaint]

1 hour ago, Nordic Saint said:

Yes the real spy in all this was the young Boro analyst who came down for a brief spell here before returning to Boro and reporting back everything about how Saints analysts operated.

Was this confirmed as fact? I can remember it being discussed at the time, but didn't know if it was just speculation. I didn't see it reported, hence the ask. 

[SaintsLoyal]

37 minutes ago, EssEffCee said:

There was no data leak on a cash card.

Did he not buy a drink in the golf club house and his details were checked ?

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, 23rdSaint said:

Was this confirmed as fact? I can remember it being discussed at the time, but didn't know if it was just speculation. I didn't see it reported, hence the ask. 

Yes. He was hired start of the season, left the club December / Jan time. Obvious that as soon as the play off draw was made, he was on the phone to grubby gibbo saying to keep an eye out for salt at the training ground.

Up rocks our intern (down the far end of the training ground) on his mobile phone (not the Boro kit they originally leaked he was wearing to the press, nor the high tech surveillance equipment they claimed he was using)... On hand of course was Boro's media team, who quickly snapped him in 4k Resolution with their far superior high powered zoom lenses.

Then, they got on the phone to the EFL to report us for spying. The impressive part in all this, is that within only a couple of hours, they had managed to identify a junior intern from a club 500miles away in the first instance, and then also gathered concrete evidence of us spying on Oxford in December (obviously right before said former employee left the club)... There can be only one source of information within this - their former employee.

Anyone who thinks they rang around every club in the championship (after the season had finished and people are on holidays), and got them to (withing hours) review CCTV footage (if retained / covering right areas) to find and identify unknown Southampton junior interns at their training grounds, and to then provide that to Middlesbrough, all within a couple of hours to report to the EFL is living in fantasy land. And that is essentially what has to have  happened for them to have evidence within hours to send to the efl (or they knew in advance and were tipped off by said former employee). This information is all essentially available in the findings. The bullying accusations were just added to add some weight to the sanctions and get it through public opinion.

Fantasy stuff. And it's the obvious smoking gun in all this that Middlesbrough were extremely grubby and intentional in the whole thing and used it to get themselves a free bye to the playoff final, and to potentially steal hull's spot.

And make no mistake. That is the grubby stitch up by the EFL and Boro in all this. Both of them get their final - sod everyone else. Not that evidence of that is really needed, Parsons (who never knows when to be quiet) - openly said there and said the efl had lied to Saints at the fans forum re expulsion, and also said that Boro had manipulated the whole thing to get to the playoff final. How the press didn't pick up on this I do not know, because it was a scandalous accusation frankly.

That final should have either been between us and hull, or hull should have been promoted. Boro and the EFL obviously conspired to make sure both of them got what they wanted. But imagine had they beaten hull - would have been disgraceful.

Saints obviously did wrong, but not in the way it was blown up - and the bit that means this will never go away is that Boro have clearly been up to their necks in it and escaped unpunished.

Edit - for those questioning the whistleblower "inside man" narrative:

Also, interestingly, his employment history has been altered on transfermarket at some point since May to remove any reference to him working at Southampton fc... Didn't stitch the club up at all did he.... Obviously just another coincidence that records of his brief stint at southampton fc have been scrubbed from the internet... (linked in, transfer market etc). And i know transfer market had both clubs previously listed as i checked it in may.

He joined us in September 2025 by all accounts, and left the club / was sacked as reported.

Appointment referenced here:
https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/25807772.eckert-explains-plan-solve-southamptons-set-piece-problems/

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jason-taylor/stationen/trainer/126892/plus/1

 

Edited 37 minutes ago by Saint86

[EssEffCee]

19 minutes ago, SaintsLoyal said:

Did he not buy a drink in the golf club house and his details were checked ?

No. Retailers don't get that sort of personal information from a transaction like that.

[trousers]

10 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Yes. He was hired start of the season, left the club December / Jan time. Obvious that as soon as the play off draw was made, he was on the phone to grubby gibbo saying to keep an eye out for salt at the training ground.

Up rocks our intern (down the far end of the training ground) on his mobile phone (not the Boro kit they originally leaked he was wearing to the press, nor the high tech surveillance equipment they claimed he was using)... On hand of course was Boro's media team, who quickly snapped him in 4k Resolution with their far superior high powered zoom lenses.

Then, they got on the phone to the EFL to report us for spying. The impressive part in all this, is that within only a couple of hours, they had managed to identify a junior intern from a club 500miles away in the first instance, and then also gathered concrete evidence of us spying on Oxford in December (obviously right before said former employee left the club)... There can be only one source of information within this - their former employee.

Anyone who thinks they rang around every club in the championship (after the season had finished and people are on holidays), and got them to (withing hours) review CCTV footage (if retained / covering right areas) to find and identify unknown Southampton junior interns at their training grounds, and to then provide that to Middlesbrough, all within a couple of hours to report to the EFL is living in fantasy land. And that is what apparently happened - they reported us with evidence with hours of salt being at the training ground. This information is all essentially available in the findings. The bullying accusations were just added to add some weight to the sanctions and get it through public opinion.

Fantasy stuff. And it's the obvious smoking gun in all this that Middlesbrough were extremely grubby and intentional in the whole thing and used it to get themselves a free bye to the playoff final, and to potentially steal hull's spot.

And make no mistake. That is the grubby stitch up by the EFL and Boro in all this. Both of them get their final - sod everyone else. Not that evidence of that is really needed, Parsons (who never knows when to be quiet) - openly said that the efl had lied to us at the fans forum, and also said that Boro has manipulated the whole thing to get to the playoff final. How the press didn't pick up on this I do not know, because it was a scandalous accusation frankly.

That final should have either been between us and hull, or hull should have been promoted. Boro and the EFL obviously conspired to make sure both of them got what they wanted. But imagine had they beaten hull - would have been disgraceful.

Saints obviously did wrong, but not in the way it was blown up - and the bit that means this will never go away is that Boro have clearly been up to their necks in it and escaped unpunished.

Yep, you've pretty much summed up my (and others') theory at the outset as to how Middlesbrough effectively engineered and scripted how it would play out, once they knew we were likely to be 'spying' on their training session (along with the general public).

And, yep, totally agree with the bit in bold... How this part of the whole saga hasn't received greater media attention is beyond me...

Yes, we were wrong... banged to rights guv and all that... But the 'subterfuge' that Middlesbrough seemingly deployed appears to warrant zero scrutiny by the world at large.... Hey ho... 

[saintant]

15 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Yes. He was hired start of the season, left the club December / Jan time. Obvious that as soon as the play off draw was made, he was on the phone to grubby gibbo saying to keep an eye out for salt at the training ground.

Up rocks our intern (down the far end of the training ground) on his mobile phone (not the Boro kit they originally leaked he was wearing to the press, nor the high tech surveillance equipment they claimed he was using)... On hand of course was Boro's media team, who quickly snapped him in 4k Resolution with their far superior high powered zoom lenses.

Then, they got on the phone to the EFL to report us for spying. The impressive part in all this, is that within only a couple of hours, they had managed to identify a junior intern from a club 500miles away in the first instance, and then also gathered concrete evidence of us spying on Oxford in December (obviously right before said former employee left the club)... There can be only one source of information within this - their former employee.

Anyone who thinks they rang around every club in the championship (after the season had finished and people are on holidays), and got them to (withing hours) review CCTV footage (if retained / covering right areas) to find and identify unknown Southampton junior interns at their training grounds, and to then provide that to Middlesbrough, all within a couple of hours to report to the EFL is living in fantasy land. And that is what apparently happened - they reported us with evidence with hours of salt being at the training ground. This information is all essentially available in the findings. The bullying accusations were just added to add some weight to the sanctions and get it through public opinion.

Fantasy stuff. And it's the obvious smoking gun in all this that Middlesbrough were extremely grubby and intentional in the whole thing and used it to get themselves a free bye to the playoff final, and to potentially steal hull's spot.

And make no mistake. That is the grubby stitch up by the EFL and Boro in all this. Both of them get their final - sod everyone else. Not that evidence of that is really needed, Parsons (who never knows when to be quiet) - openly said that the efl had lied to us at the fans forum, and also said that Boro has manipulated the whole thing to get to the playoff final. How the press didn't pick up on this I do not know, because it was a scandalous accusation frankly.

That final should have either been between us and hull, or hull should have been promoted. Boro and the EFL obviously conspired to make sure both of them got what they wanted. But imagine had they beaten hull - would have been disgraceful.

Saints obviously did wrong, but not in the way it was blown up - and the bit that means this will never go away is that Boro have clearly been up to their necks in it and escaped unpunished.

Good post especially the stuff about the speed Boro were able to identify Salt and come up with the names of other sides we'd spied on. They built their case very quickly but then, they had to, because the Play Off Final was just around the corner. Stinks to high heaven.

[trousers]

2 hours ago, Winnersaint said:

Looking back at the original incident, did Will Salt forget that Monday was a Bank Holiday and thought Thursday was Wednesday?

Ha... That was another one of my 'conspiracy theories' at the time...

[Saint86]

10 minutes ago, trousers said:

Yep, you've pretty much summed up my (and others') theory at the outset as to how Middlesbrough effectively engineered and scripted how it would play out, once they knew we were likely to be 'spying' on their training session (along with the general public).

And, yep, totally agree with the bit in bold... How this part of the whole saga hasn't received greater media attention is beyond me...

Yes, we were wrong... banged to rights guv and all that... But the 'subterfuge' that Middlesbrough seemingly deployed appears to warrant zero scrutiny by the world at large.... Hey ho... 

The issue is our incredibly naive / incompetent handling of the whole affair - the damage was done immediately by Parsons decision making and response to the initial accusation. If we fail to get promoted this season (which lets be honest is sub a 50% likelihood) it will haunt the club for years, perhaps decades or generations if we fail to recover and rebuild.

Edited 1 hour ago by Saint86

[Miltonaggro]

2 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

The issue is our incredibly naive / incompetent handling of the whole affair. If we fail to get promoted this season (which lets be honest is sub a 50% likelihood) it will haunt the club for years, perhaps decades or generations if we fail to recover and rebuild.

This is the reason why Solak's response is so baffling. The fighting talk and we are all in this together puff after the sanction and appeal was welcome, but our net spend recording a plus £10m profit in the summer window makes you think that Sport Republic don't realise the depth of shite the club will be in if the wheels come off this season. 

[Teamsaint1]

5 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

This is the reason why Solak's response is so baffling. The fighting talk and we are all in this together puff after the sanction and appeal was welcome, but our net spend recording a plus £10m profit in the summer window makes you think that Sport Republic don't realise the depth of shite the club will be in if the wheels come off this season. 

You might think that finance would have a spreadsheet that runs to and includes  the 2027/28 season.......

 

At least we will have paid for 25% of Dobbin by then. Phew.

[Miltonaggro]

14 minutes ago, Teamsaint1 said:

You might think that finance would have a spreadsheet that runs to and includes  the 2027/28 season.......

 

At least we will have paid for 25% of Dobbin by then. Phew.

A silver lining

[23rdSaint]

50 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Yes. He was hired start of the season, left the club December / Jan time. Obvious that as soon as the play off draw was made, he was on the phone to grubby gibbo saying to keep an eye out for salt at the training ground.

Up rocks our intern (down the far end of the training ground) on his mobile phone (not the Boro kit they originally leaked he was wearing to the press, nor the high tech surveillance equipment they claimed he was using)... On hand of course was Boro's media team, who quickly snapped him in 4k Resolution with their far superior high powered zoom lenses.

Then, they got on the phone to the EFL to report us for spying. The impressive part in all this, is that within only a couple of hours, they had managed to identify a junior intern from a club 500miles away in the first instance, and then also gathered concrete evidence of us spying on Oxford in December (obviously right before said former employee left the club)... There can be only one source of information within this - their former employee.

Anyone who thinks they rang around every club in the championship (after the season had finished and people are on holidays), and got them to (withing hours) review CCTV footage (if retained / covering right areas) to find and identify unknown Southampton junior interns at their training grounds, and to then provide that to Middlesbrough, all within a couple of hours to report to the EFL is living in fantasy land. And that is essentially what has to have  happened for them to have evidence within hours to send to the efl (or they knew in advance and were tipped off by said former employee). This information is all essentially available in the findings. The bullying accusations were just added to add some weight to the sanctions and get it through public opinion.

Fantasy stuff. And it's the obvious smoking gun in all this that Middlesbrough were extremely grubby and intentional in the whole thing and used it to get themselves a free bye to the playoff final, and to potentially steal hull's spot.

And make no mistake. That is the grubby stitch up by the EFL and Boro in all this. Both of them get their final - sod everyone else. Not that evidence of that is really needed, Parsons (who never knows when to be quiet) - openly said there and said the efl had lied to Saints at the fans forum re expulsion, and also said that Boro had manipulated the whole thing to get to the playoff final. How the press didn't pick up on this I do not know, because it was a scandalous accusation frankly.

That final should have either been between us and hull, or hull should have been promoted. Boro and the EFL obviously conspired to make sure both of them got what they wanted. But imagine had they beaten hull - would have been disgraceful.

Saints obviously did wrong, but not in the way it was blown up - and the bit that means this will never go away is that Boro have clearly been up to their necks in it and escaped unpunished.

I remember most of that narrative from the time and it sounds plausible but it is definitely speculative. Why didn't the Echo, at the very least, report on any of this? (They may have, I just can't find it)

[Sunglasses Ron]

I assume it's ok to spy on someone's spy then?

Would have been cool if we could have done them for the same crime. 

[Saint86]

31 minutes ago, 23rdSaint said:

I remember most of that narrative from the time and it sounds plausible but it is definitely speculative. Why didn't the Echo, at the very least, report on any of this? (They may have, I just can't find it)

Well, the evidence for the supposition that matters is all behind closed doors unfortunately - but i'd suggest the above is just about the only way the timescales involved make sense (or at least the only version i have seen that is remotely credible), and they also marry up with what Parson's said at the fans forum more recently (even if that was incredibly unprofessional from him and poorly advised given the ongoing proceedings). 

Whistleblower:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jason-taylor/stationen/trainer/126892/plus/1

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/25807772.eckert-explains-plan-solve-southamptons-set-piece-problems/
 

Edited 36 minutes ago by Saint86

[Saint Pete]

2 hours ago, Nordic Saint said:

Yes the real spy in all this was the young Boro analyst who came down for a brief spell here before returning to Boro and reporting back everything about how Saints analysts operated.

Gibson's employee on the EFL Board and the ex-Boro player on the disciplinary panel saw to the rest.

The thing is though, we can all get as angry and indignant with Boro's involvement in the affair as we like, but what you have said above also highlights again how monumentally stupid and naive those involved at our club were. 

So, at some point, Tonda or someone else on the staff decided to sanction these activities against EFL rules and all of our analyst team including a young analyst formerly from one of our rivals were aware of this. They then allow that analyst who has that knowledge to return to our rival, and not only do we continue to do that activity against the rules but we decide it's a good idea to do it against the same club that young analyst has gone back to before our most crucial match of the season. Did those involved not think at any point that this may be a little too risky and not worth the minimal advantage it might gain us? 

At the end of the day, whilst Boro have certainly done all they can to benefit from the situation, no one held a gun to the head of our employees to make them do these stupid things.

There's no point in complaining about Boro at this point in my opinion as it won't help us, better to focus on arguing about what is a suitable and fair punishment for the FA to impose in comparison to bigger clubs who have committed worse cheating to gain far bigger advantages and received more lenient punishments. 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

Yes. He was hired start of the season, left the club December / Jan time. Obvious that as soon as the play off draw was made, he was on the phone to grubby gibbo saying to keep an eye out for salt at the training ground.

Up rocks our intern (down the far end of the training ground) on his mobile phone (not the Boro kit they originally leaked he was wearing to the press, nor the high tech surveillance equipment they claimed he was using)... On hand of course was Boro's media team, who quickly snapped him in 4k Resolution with their far superior high powered zoom lenses.

Then, they got on the phone to the EFL to report us for spying. The impressive part in all this, is that within only a couple of hours, they had managed to identify a junior intern from a club 500miles away in the first instance, and then also gathered concrete evidence of us spying on Oxford in December (obviously right before said former employee left the club)... There can be only one source of information within this - their former employee.

Anyone who thinks they rang around every club in the championship (after the season had finished and people are on holidays), and got them to (withing hours) review CCTV footage (if retained / covering right areas) to find and identify unknown Southampton junior interns at their training grounds, and to then provide that to Middlesbrough, all within a couple of hours to report to the EFL is living in fantasy land. And that is essentially what has to have  happened for them to have evidence within hours to send to the efl (or they knew in advance and were tipped off by said former employee). This information is all essentially available in the findings. The bullying accusations were just added to add some weight to the sanctions and get it through public opinion.

Fantasy stuff. And it's the obvious smoking gun in all this that Middlesbrough were extremely grubby and intentional in the whole thing and used it to get themselves a free bye to the playoff final, and to potentially steal hull's spot.

And make no mistake. That is the grubby stitch up by the EFL and Boro in all this. Both of them get their final - sod everyone else. Not that evidence of that is really needed, Parsons (who never knows when to be quiet) - openly said there and said the efl had lied to Saints at the fans forum re expulsion, and also said that Boro had manipulated the whole thing to get to the playoff final. How the press didn't pick up on this I do not know, because it was a scandalous accusation frankly.

That final should have either been between us and hull, or hull should have been promoted. Boro and the EFL obviously conspired to make sure both of them got what they wanted. But imagine had they beaten hull - would have been disgraceful.

Saints obviously did wrong, but not in the way it was blown up - and the bit that means this will never go away is that Boro have clearly been up to their necks in it and escaped unpunished.

Did Parsons actually say this at the fans forum? I'm not disputing it because I wasn't there but I've just watched it back and didn't hear this comment. Maybe it was edited out at the time or has been since but the version I've just watched on line didn't contain this comment from Parsons.

[Willo of Whiteley]

If there was to be a six month plus ban then the Southampton hierarchy will look utterly ridiculous in all their decision making.

You can’t function on an interim manager for over half a season when you’re looking to get promoted.

It would also make them look more stupid and naive having backed him in the transfer market.