Should Saints sack Tonda?

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Pre-sanction - agreed. But that’s not where we are right now.

Well we haven't really received any headlines because we are a championship club and it isn't interesting once we've been punished so there aren't any headlines to get ahead of. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I agree. The punishment I was referring to is the one that we have already received and the one that people are still arguing is a lesser crime than diving to win a penalty.

Fair enough, however I have to say I have much empathy for that argument. The hard evidence suggests we received no competitive advantage from ‘spying’, while beating Boro over 180+ minutes of football, however diving to win a penalty can inflict immediate and lasting damage to the fortunes of the opposing team, particularly in ‘big’ games such as relegation battles etc etc. or how about deliberately inflicting GBH on Scienza’s legs in rash tackles which could physically and mentally damage him for the rest of his career - is that not a worse ‘crime’?

[trousers]

37 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Boring now. We cheated, it was systemic and we were punished. We can argue as long as we like about how it was unfair, too harsh etc. It doesn't change anything. All we can do is take the punishment and try to mitigate the damage for next year.

Yeah, but what's more boring? Those still talking about it it or those who keep pointing out how boring it is...?

Edited 8 hours ago by trousers

[saintant]

31 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

No fucking chance 

Pony

[trousers]

42 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

To be fair you’ve got absolutely no evidence of that whatsoever - only that the club has not made another public announcement. That in all seriousness does not equate to doing nothing - I suspect Dragan and the Board are in ‘swan mode’ right now…act calmly with all the required work going on out of sight. Why give any competitor or the media an advantage? Stay ahead of the headlines…that’s where the smart money is.

At least with actual swans you can still see the calm top half... The Sport Republic swan is currently in a submarine at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean....

Edited 8 hours ago by trousers

[trousers]

Just now, saintant said:

Pony

Unhinged!

[Wade Garrett]

47 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

To be fair you’ve got absolutely no evidence of that whatsoever - only that the club has not made another public announcement. That in all seriousness does not equate to doing nothing - I suspect Dragan and the Board are in ‘swan mode’ right now…act calmly with all the required work going on out of sight. Why give any competitor or the media an advantage? Stay ahead of the headlines…that’s where the smart money is.

SR always act too late, and the evidence is the silence from the club.

[hypochondriac]

23 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Fair enough, however I have to say I have much empathy for that argument. The hard evidence suggests we received no competitive advantage from ‘spying’, while beating Boro over 180+ minutes of football, however diving to win a penalty can inflict immediate and lasting damage to the fortunes of the opposing team, particularly in ‘big’ games such as relegation battles etc etc. or how about deliberately inflicting GBH on Scienza’s legs in rash tackles which could physically and mentally damage him for the rest of his career - is that not a worse ‘crime’?

I'm not looking to argue about which crime is worse. My point is that loads of people on here have been droning on for days since the decision with arguments like that seeking to mitigate things. I took about 4 or 5 days off which was a great idea actually and I think some posters on here need a bit of acceptance and a realistic view about the best way forward. 

[Noodles34]

I see the SW fanbase is behind the 'keep him' vote, which is great news. 

[Verbal]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

I took about 4 or 5 days off which was a great idea actually 

Can you give us advance notice when you plan to do this again? 

[Saint Fan CaM]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm not looking to argue about which crime is worse. My point is that loads of people on here have been droning on for days since the decision with arguments like that seeking to mitigate things. I took about 4 or 5 days off which was a great idea actually and I think some posters on here need a bit of acceptance and a realistic view about the best way forward. 

I get it - but this a fans forum so I think we know what to expect?! But, yeah, cyclic arguments and all that…

[Saint Fan CaM]

5 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

SR always act too late, and the evidence is the silence from the club.

Under the circumstances I don’t think they can be beaten up for not providing a view on what’s happening. Any output from the club that is wrong or plain stupid…well that’s a different matter entirely! 😉

[egg]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

I think the fact they haven't done it yet is either because they want to sack him off without a payout and so want to wait for the FA to do it (although you'd think he would be on gardening leave prior to that and maybe they'd have enough already to get rid regardless of what the FA do) or there must be at least a possibility that he stays and they are figuring out how they would be able to credibly do that. I think there is an argument that unless there is some sort of further punishment, if the players are behind him then they are just making us worse by sacking him. This could all be moot though if they come out to borrow with a announcement that he's gone and no one would be surprised.

I think it's gone quiet because Tonda is in the middle of an internal disciplinary process, and the club are saying nothing until that plays out. If he had our backing, the club would have said so.

[Wade Garrett]

2 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Under the circumstances I don’t think they can be beaten up for not providing a view on what’s happening. Any output from the club that is wrong or plain stupid…well that’s a different matter entirely! 😉

You're probably right.  

They can't procrastinate over the issue though.  Make their decision and plan for next season.  Other clubs already have the jump on us.

[mitch01]

IIt's Tonda In for me, assuming we are confident there's no FA ban incoming and the players are supportive. 

Hopefully the club are working to establish a view on both of those. 

Basis for this: I don't think what's happened in the last two weeks a) takes anything away from our footballing progress since he started or b) implies he is a bad person, just a combination of naive and unlucky.

Let's sell who we need to sell, bring in some more smart signings and continue our momentum.

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

I think it's gone quiet because Tonda is in the middle of an internal disciplinary process, and the club are saying nothing until that plays out. If he had our backing, the club would have said so.

That would factor into my first scenario too. The likely FA ban would no doubt make things easier if they were going down the gross Misconduct route. Maybe an argument would be that we were at least partially responsible though if we hired him without doing the full briefing thing.

[trousers]

17 minutes ago, egg said:

I think it's gone quiet because Tonda is in the middle of an internal disciplinary process, and the club are saying nothing until that plays out. If he had our backing, the club would have said so.

Quite possibly, although I guess the opposite could be true... i.e. the club want to avoid the FA potentially (mis)perceiving their backing of Tonda as complacency or indirectly condoning what he did. In other words, they could simply have been advised by their legal bods to go into radio silence mode regardless of their intentions with regards Tonda. Who knows?

#mentalgymnastics

Edited 7 hours ago by trousers

[hypochondriac]

Just now, trousers said:

Quite possibly, although I guess the opposite could be true... i.e. the club want to avoid the FA potential (mis)perceiving their backing of Tonda as complacency or indirectly condoning what he did. In other words, they could simply have been advised to go into radio silence mode regardless of their intentions with regards Tonda. Who knows?

I thought the FA was just about penalising individuals rather than the club? 

[Willo of Whiteley]

I’m now going to take a different approach and say I couldn’t give a toss until we actually have some real news.

Some kind of report or fact to work with.

Not gossip. 🤣

Lets all go out and enjoy the sun!

[trousers]

7 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I thought the FA was just about penalising individuals rather than the club? 

I've lost track of who has what remit, to be honest... I thought these football authorities just made things up as they went along, retrofitting punishments to certain misdemeanours but conveniently turning a blind eye to others....? Or maybe that's just unhinged mental gymnastics of course...

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I’m now going to take a different approach and say I couldn’t give a toss until we actually have some real news.

Some kind of report or fact to work with.

Not gossip. 🤣

Lets all go out and enjoy the sun!

Too f***ing hot for that!

[egg]

19 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I thought the FA was just about penalising individuals rather than the club? 

I think that's the case.

[saintant]

21 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I thought the FA was just about penalising individuals rather than the club? 

I think this is the case. The FA investigation will focus on identifying individuals involved in the spying and evaluating the responsibility of those who encouraged or were aware of the misconduct.

[wild-saint]

2 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

I’ve had time to cool down over the situation.

Seems quite split if the poll is representative of the whole fan base.  The way I see it:

Tonda stays - some of the fans happy and renew, some pissed off and renew, some pissed off and don’t renew.

Tonda goes but we appoint a proven manager - I don’t think many wouldn’t renew that want Tonda to stay.  Those that want him out would renew.

Tonda goes and we make another clever bollocks appointment - you would be pissing off the entire fanbase and plenty wouldn’t renew.

If I was running the club, I would sack Tonda and appoint a decent manager.

The board are currently doing their normal thing of jack-shit at the moment.  Someone seriously needs to put a rocket up their arses.

The fucking massive flaw in your plan is who is making the decision on who this "Decent Manager" is, will he join us and how do we know that he will be a decent manager. 

Or subject to a ban, keep the guy that we know 100% is a decent manager. 

[Willo of Whiteley]

5 minutes ago, wild-saint said:

The fucking massive flaw in your plan is who is making the decision on who this "Decent Manager" is, will he join us and how do we know that he will be a decent manager. 

Or subject to a ban, keep the guy that we know 100% is a decent manager. 

Vibes of:

Captain Blackadder: There was one tiny flaw in the plan?

Lieutenant George: What was that, sir?

Captain Blackadder: It was bollocks.

🤣

[Wade Garrett]

18 minutes ago, wild-saint said:

The fucking massive flaw in your plan is who is making the decision on who this "Decent Manager" is, will he join us and how do we know that he will be a decent manager. 

Or subject to a ban, keep the guy that we know 100% is a decent manager. 

It’s not a flaw.  Get a decent manager and the supporters will be onside.  Get another hipster and they won’t.

[sadoldgit]

6 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

It’s not a flaw.  Get a decent manager and the supporters will be onside.  Get another hipster and they won’t.

I take it Tonda Eckert comes under the “hipster” bracket? Would you prefer him or some old has-been who has been sacked from more clubs than he cares to remember? Being a “hipster” doesn’t preclude you from being a decent coach. Any coach who wins a lot of matches will win the fan base over.

As for the current radio silence from the club. Although the comms dept. have gone quiet you can imagine that there are plenty of lawyers for the club, the players’ agents, the coaching team etc. all beavering away in the background.

Edited 6 hours ago by sadoldgit

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I take it Tonda Eckertcomes under the “hipster” bracket?

I guess it could be argued that Tonda comes under "the exception that proves the rule" bracket...?

Edited 6 hours ago by trousers

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

As for the current radio silence from the club. Although the comms dept. have gone quiet you can imagine that there are plenty of lawyers for the club, the players’ agents, the coaching team etc. all beavering away in the background.

 

[Willo of Whiteley]

21 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

It’s not a flaw.  Get a decent manager and the supporters will be onside.  Get another hipster and they won’t.

This could not be more accurate.

See Aston Villa’s hiring of Unai Emery and our hiring of Nathan Jones - and then the time that has passed for both clubs.

🤷🏻‍♂️

[Barry the Badger]

I'd be quite interested in the results of a new Eckert poll, given that this one has now swung to 56%

[Hawkswood]

4 hours ago, Forester said:

Gonna say this slowly as it doesn’t seem to be sinking in with the “don’t sack Tonda” brigade…….

WHAT………..IF……..HE…….IS……BANNED……FOR……MONTHS…….?

Still think this will be taken out of our hands.  It won’t just be a touch line ban.

I think many of us ( that is apparently my " brigade") have stated numerous times that 

A) if the players will still play for him

AND

B) He is not banned by the FA, then we should keep him. 

Simple as that.

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, egg said:

I think that's the case.

The FA can absolutely sanction the club. If the want to be really heavy handed they can bring in external oversight of our scouting and analytics departments for example.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

You're probably right.  

They can't procrastinate over the issue though.  Make their decision and plan for next season.  Other clubs already have the jump on us.

Why procrastinate today when you can procrastinate tomorrow?

[Hawkswood]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Boring now. We cheated, it was systemic and we were punished. We can argue as long as we like about how it was unfair, too harsh etc. It doesn't change anything. All we can do is take the punishment and try to mitigate the damage for next year.

This is how I see it and have done since the start. No mental gymnastics for me. We cheated, got caught, got fucked. Was the punishment too harsh ? Dont know, don't really care anymore, what's done is done. Again, took me about 48 hours to get over it and as soon as I did I realised I wanted Tonda to stay.

Not blaming gibo. Not boro or the efl. We fucked ourselves and the best thing for saints is results on the pitch. The rest will follow, and I believe Tonda is the person to get those results. Couldn't give  a monkey what people think of us.....

 

 

[wild-saint]

39 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

It’s not a flaw.  Get a decent manager and the supporters will be onside.  Get another hipster and they won’t.

Oh really, Im sure you could come up with a decent manager and convince him to join but SR track record of managers is so poor they seem to have fluked Tonda Eckert but struggling for any others. Kind of suggests that if SR make the choice then its likely to end in failure. 

For that reason I couldnt care who he bullied (if true), give him a slap on the wrist and get him on the training field. Any other decision is more than likely end up on a fucking tragic season like every other one they have managed.

[Hopper]

A case of better the German you know I think.

As for other clubs having the jump. We are going to be losing players that's for sure, but very little work will be done this side of the World Cup for the majority of clubs. Most signings come late in the window and we will have a firm idea of what's happening by then.

This is one occasion where I think being pragmatic and seeing what comes is the best play.

Edited 6 hours ago by Hopper

[Cuddles]

29 minutes ago, Barry the Badger said:

I'd be quite interested in the results of a new Eckert poll, given that this one has now swung to 56%

Your wish is my command

[Whitey Grandad]

But I haven't voted in the last poll yet!

[hypochondriac]

34 minutes ago, Hawkswood said:

This is how I see it and have done since the start. No mental gymnastics for me. We cheated, got caught, got fucked. Was the punishment too harsh ? Dont know, don't really care anymore, what's done is done. Again, took me about 48 hours to get over it and as soon as I did I realised I wanted Tonda to stay.

Not blaming gibo. Not boro or the efl. We fucked ourselves and the best thing for saints is results on the pitch. The rest will follow, and I believe Tonda is the person to get those results. Couldn't give  a monkey what people think of us.....

 

 

Yep. Once I accepted the appeal was done and that we can never reverse time and get in the playoffs then it was easier to accept. Nothing we can do now even if down the line magically they ruled in our favour. Just have to make a silk purse out of a sows ear and do our best for promotion next year which you would think we would still be in quite a good position for.

[Wade Garrett]

45 minutes ago, Hawkswood said:

This is how I see it and have done since the start. No mental gymnastics for me. We cheated, got caught, got fucked. Was the punishment too harsh ? Dont know, don't really care anymore, what's done is done. Again, took me about 48 hours to get over it and as soon as I did I realised I wanted Tonda to stay.

Not blaming gibo. Not boro or the efl. We fucked ourselves and the best thing for saints is results on the pitch. The rest will follow, and I believe Tonda is the person to get those results. Couldn't give  a monkey what people think of us.....

 

 

We didn’t fuck ourselves though, Tonda fucked us.

 

[Wade Garrett]

43 minutes ago, wild-saint said:

Oh really, Im sure you could come up with a decent manager and convince him to join but SR track record of managers is so poor they seem to have fluked Tonda Eckert but struggling for any others. Kind of suggests that if SR make the choice then its likely to end in failure. 

For that reason I couldnt care who he bullied (if true), give him a slap on the wrist and get him on the training field. Any other decision is more than likely end up on a fucking tragic season like every other one they have managed.

Depends who we can recruit to manage the team…..

[Willo of Whiteley]

Money talks.

You can get anyone you want if you promise them a few quid.

I wonder what our players would say if you said to them “we’ll give you a promotion win bonus to keep you given the circumstances” but with the expectation we go up this season, if we don’t the club keeps it. 😅

[sadoldgit]

I get the impression that Tonda is a bit of a perfectionist, maybe with a side order of O.C.D. He always seems so focussed on the next game you can almost see him thinking about that when the final whistle blows. Flynn Downes mentioned the amount of detail he gives the players. 
If so, perhaps he could use that in his defence. Play the mental health card?

😉

[Cuddles]

4 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I get the impression that Tonda is a bit of a perfectionist, maybe with a side order of O.C.D. He always seems so focussed on the next game you can almost see him thinking about that when the final whistle blows. Flynn Downes mentioned the amount of detail he gives the players. 
If so, perhaps he could use that in his defence. Play the mental health card?

😉

Sounds like the opposite of me 😂

[bugenhagen]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Yep. Once I accepted the appeal was done and that we can never reverse time and get in the playoffs then it was easier to accept. Nothing we can do now even if down the line magically they ruled in our favour. Just have to make a silk purse out of a sows ear and do our best for promotion next year which you would think we would still be in quite a good position for.

Wait a minute... What was all that talk earlier about them being close to figuring out the flux capacitor?

Keep believing Hypo! 

[Football Special]

33 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I get the impression that Tonda is a bit of a perfectionist, maybe with a side order of O.C.D. He always seems so focussed on the next game you can almost see him thinking about that when the final whistle blows. Flynn Downes mentioned the amount of detail he gives the players. 
If so, perhaps he could use that in his defence. Play the mental health card?

😉

I think you are actually onto something to be honest , in modern Britain most companies claim to support Mental Health and neurodivergent staff 

"A mental health condition, such as OCD, is considered a disability by UK law under the Equality Act 2010 if it has a “long-term effect on your normal day-to-day activity”. Your condition is 'long term' if it lasts, or is likely to last 12 months."

[Hawkswood]

2 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

We didn’t fuck ourselves though, Tonda fucked 

I dont mean to be rude but we can go round and round in circles and get nowhere. Even if he alone is solely to blame for fucking up, Im willing to forgive him. Hows that ? 😉