West Ham - whats the difference

last season they were (apparently) really really rubbish

play rubbish football with an utterly terrible manager

carroll is utter garbage and collins is a joke.

however, they are sitting nicely near the top end of the league with yet another win...4 points from 2 fixtures many saints fans would have written off completely....

they have hardly bought in worldys as players

what are they doing differently...what are they doing that is massively more successful than us..?

have we gotten THAT bad..? or have they gotten that much better than us..

crazy that in a few months, how things have changed..

Alternatively, Saints are only 6 points behind Liverpool in the Premier League. Compare that with the summer of 2009.

We have an ambitious manager who likes to play better, attacking and entertaining football which is great, as long as you win. Allardyce always has his teams playing efficient, organised football with defence very key for him. That's why they keep clean sheets and have won a few games.

Getting the right balance between the two will make you an successful team but an entertaining one which Nigel craves.

They don't **** about in their own half, get the ball up front quickly with a high tempo.

The difference is Prem experience both on the pitch and off it and a very different set of early season fixtures - have they played Man U at home, Man City and Arsenal away? Last season we were marginally better than them in the nPC across the whole season and by the end of this season we'll be able to see who was better in the Prem.

last season they were (apparently) really really rubbish

play rubbish football with an utterly terrible manager

 

carroll is utter garbage and collins is a joke.

 

however, they are sitting nicely near the top end of the league with yet another win...4 points from 2 fixtures many saints fans would have written off completely....

 

they have hardly bought in worldys as players

 

what are they doing differently...what are they doing that is massively more successful than us..?

 

have we gotten THAT bad..? or have they gotten that much better than us..

crazy that in a few months, how things have changed..

1) They had a very kind start to the season and as a result have managed to get some momentum going and confidence must be very high right now

2) Their manager knows how to organise his teams and grind out results

3) They probably underachieved last year and we overachieved

Anyone that thought Carroll was anything other than a fantastic signing for the style that Sam is a bit silly IMO

Better equipped for this league than us because they have genuine PL experience right through the team. We don't.

They don't **** about in their own half, get the ball up front quickly with a high tempo.

there is a lot to be said for that, especially when you have shipped 29 goals in 11 games and are as slow on the break as we often are.

Throw in a manager with vast Prem league experience, a large number of Prem experience players and there is your answer.

The difference is Prem experience both on the pitch and off it and a very different set of early season fixtures - have they played Man U at home, Man City and Arsenal away? Last season we were marginally better than them in the nPC across the whole season and by the end of this season we'll be able to see who was better in the Prem.

fair points...but they are in the run of their tough fixtures...so far, 4 points from 2 games....where our fans would have them written off after getting soundly beaten...

fair points...but they are in the run of their tough fixtures...so far, 4 points from 2 games....where our fans would have them written off after getting soundly beaten...

They won today at Newcastle. Surely this is one that should have be written off as having no chance?

They won today at Newcastle. Surely this is one that should have be written off as having no chance?

drew 0-0 last weeks against man city..where they had a perfectly good goal disallowed....

drew 0-0 last weeks against man city..where they had a perfectly good goal disallowed....

I'm amazed they didn't just throw in the towel and take the beating they were certain to get. What makes it all the more remarkable is they have a terrible manger who hasn't got a clue.

West Ham bounced straight back into the Premiership after one season in the championship, we spent about six years in the wilderness, the first few spiralling to administration.

West Ham bounced straight back into the Premiership after one season in the championship, we spent about six years in the wilderness, the first few spiralling to administration.

not really a great deal to do with anything..we were better than them for about every game last season....we beat them and drew against them and most were in agreement that they were terrible, have a terrible manager that plays hoofball and will probably go down....

they have hardly signed anyone of any note.....IMO

They signed PL experience in goal & defence. They came down with people like Carlton Cole. Paid Nolan £50k a week in the champ, signed a £35m paid striker & pay him £70k a week AND more importantly did not **** about with the formation that got them promoted!!!!!!

Efficiency,

As someone else has mentioned they underperformed last year massively,

Allardyce makes his teams hard to beat.

Averages say that if you hoof the ball into the box enough times, atleast once the ball will drop to one of their players and give them a chance.

We've looked long term while they've looked short term,

They have momentum from having a good start which breads confidence.

Efficiency,

 

As someone else has mentioned they underperformed last year massively,

 

Allardyce makes his teams hard to beat.

 

 

Averages say that if you hoof the ball into the box enough times, atleast once the ball will drop to one of their players and give them a chance.

 

We've looked long term while they've looked short term,

 

They have momentum from having a good start which breads confidence.

I dont really see how our vision of being bottom, and shipping goals like it is going out of fashion is a long term one...where as they will more than likely stay up and improve their squad,....yet that is a short term vision

just do not get it what so ever

They signed PL experience in goal & defence. They came down with people like Carlton Cole. Paid Nolan £50k a week in the champ, signed a £35m paid striker & pay him £70k a week AND more importantly did not **** about with the formation that got them promoted!!!!!!

Yeah, but apart from that, what's the difference? I reckon the main difference is that they haven't got Adkins as manager.

last season they were (apparently) really really rubbish

play rubbish football with an utterly terrible manager

 

carroll is utter garbage and collins is a joke.

 

however, they are sitting nicely near the top end of the league with yet another win...4 points from 2 fixtures many saints fans would have written off completely....

 

they have hardly bought in worldys as players

 

what are they doing differently...what are they doing that is massively more successful than us..?

 

have we gotten THAT bad..? or have they gotten that much better than us..

crazy that in a few months, how things have changed..

Allardyce is far from a rubbish manager - as I suspect you also are hinting at. He took over Bolton in the Championship ( or whatever it was called then) and revolutionised their whole approach to all aspects of training, preparation and tactics. But can I point out that he got Bolton promoted to the Premiership, saw them relegated again, but because Bolton stuck by him, he got them promoted again and kept them comfortably in the premiership for a good many years. The wheels only came off their bus when he left.

It looks to me like more of the same as what we saw last season with a bit more quality added. Carroll was a great signing for them (though his antics against Saints weren't impressive). Jarvis was a good signing. Collins is a big no nonsense unit. Allardyce's methods are tried and tested and relatively simple. If they stay up, and I think they will, he'll add a bit more quality as he did at Bolton. Their fixtures have not been so tough as Saints' allowing them to build on confidence.

Whereas Saints have tried to introduce all at once new formations and new personnel with a very tough fixture list which has almost knocked the stuffing out of the players. Add in the manager and chairman being on a steep learning curve and it's no surprise we are where we are.

I expect West Ham to fall back down the table but to stay up and I hope by the end of the season we can get the hang of it and move up to safety such that we won't be so far apart points wise.

How many games had Allardyce managed in the Prem before the start of the season? Hundreds. How many games had Adkins managed? Zero. That is the main difference to me. Big Sam knows what is needed of a team to compete, and his summer signings were shrewd and are evidence of his wealth of PL experience. It might not be pretty to watch but it is effective, there is no denying that

I dont really see how our vision of being bottom, and shipping goals like it is going out of fashion is a long term one...where as they will more than likely stay up and improve their squad,....yet that is a short term vision

 

just do not get it what so ever

We've looked long term by buying young players with potential rather than loaning in Andy Carroll and paying him a huge wage with no guarantee that his club won't take him back or sell him to someone else. Buying Gazzaniga rather than Jaaskeleinen is another example.

Not sure how you can say they haven't brought in anyone of note when they have brought in the two mentioned above.

I don't think anyone at Saints envisioned / planned a strategy for us to be bottom two after 10 games, but thanks largely to a very steep learning curve for the majority of the squad, individual errors from the players and manager and some very tough fixtures that's where we find ourselves and now is the time for the whole club to pull together and work hard to get more points on the board. 17th place or above is still within our reach.

How many games had Allardyce managed in the Prem before the start of the season? Hundreds. How many games had Adkins managed? Zero. That is the main difference to me. Big Sam knows what is needed of a team to compete, and his summer signings were shrewd and are evidence of his wealth of PL experience. It might not be pretty to watch but it is effective, there is no denying that

so, replacing adkins with someone (regardless how good) with prem experience could be a huge positive..?

We've looked long term by buying young players with potential rather than loaning in Andy Carroll and paying him a huge wage with no guarantee that his club won't take him back or sell him to someone else. Buying Gazzaniga rather than Jaaskeleinen is another example.

 

Not sure how you can say they haven't brought in anyone of note when they have brought in the two mentioned above.

 

I don't think anyone at Saints envisioned / planned a strategy for us to be bottom two after 10 games, but thanks largely to a very steep learning curve for the majority of the squad, individual errors from the players and manager and some very tough fixtures that's where we find ourselves and now is the time for the whole club to pull together and work hard to get more points on the board. 17th place or above is still within our reach.

Dont you think it's important to also have experienced, proven Premier league players to make sure you stay in the premier league to and the long term view has any chance of succeeding?

last season they were (apparently) really really rubbish

play rubbish football with an utterly terrible manager. carroll is utter garbage and collins is a joke.

however, they are sitting nicely near the top end of the league with yet another win...4 points from 2 fixtures many saints fans would have written off completely....they have hardly bought in worldys as players

what are they doing differently...what are they doing that is massively more successful than us..?

have we gotten THAT bad..? or have they gotten that much better than us..crazy that in a few months, how things have changed..

Whilst most of us might agree with some of those comments; I think we might have missed a few things about Wham, last season.

Whether they " deserved " it or not...(like Man.U.) they did win some games without really being the best side. Call it luck?.

(I think) they won more games than we did, but drew too many important games, especially some at home.

Had it not been for Jos Hooiveld's goals in our two games against them. 1-0 at SMS and 1-1 away.....they might have been 4 points better off than us, and it would have been Saints in the play-offs and not them. I don't know if we'd have made it.???

IMHO the main difference between our two sides is that they have several key players who are winning games for them.

The type of "old heads " who can play alongside and help develop their younger players. Nolan is one such example, but the balance of their squad is not much better than ours...yet they are still winning. Luck ? ..or "easy" fixtures?

We've been far too dependent on Rickie's outstanding performances, but he's now gone 6 games without scoring ..and doesn't it show !

Our problem has been (!) depending too much of the good performances of a side built in L1 and who performed excellently last season....but aren't really Prem. quality. We have good young talent but the problem is just that ....young!

As Lawrie Mac. always said....you need a side with "old heads and young legs ". We've got the young legs......but not enough experience playing around them.

AS for the question about who has the better side? .....take a look after New Year. If we're not within striking distance of Wham, then (like it or not), then they're better than Saints. No matter how well / badly you play its the result after 95 mins.that matters.

notBigSam ‏@TheBig_Sam

Just scribbled 'Newcastle United' above the wife's a*sehole with a felt-tip pen. Big Sam is going to f*ck them all over again.

It may have something to do with the fact that they dont try to play total football and do absolutely nothing dangerous with their possession and actually manage to protect a defence that in reality is marginally better than ours.

They have surprised me this season I have to admit. Really wanted them to do poorly because they have such arrogant, disrespectful fans on their mongboard (but I guess then who doesn't?) Allardyce clearly knows what he is doing and no doubt they have huge confidence at the moment. Would be interesting to see what happens to them if they go on a losing run and the fans start to turn. Their fans have what they see as the "West Ham" way of playing football and I'm not sure Fat Sam would last too long there if things go a bit belly up.

An away win at Newcastle can't be argued with - can't see us coming away from there with anything less than a severe drubbing.

Alternatively, Saints are only 6 points behind Liverpool in the Premier League. Compare that with the summer of 2009.

What does an underperforming liverpool have to do with anything ?

More confidence. If we can string three or four games together unbeaten then who knows. But stringing 2 together seems unlikely for now.

We're longer term as we've brought in new young players, probably on relatively small wages. Whereas west ham have done the opposite. If we'd 'done a Swansea' then I'm sure west ham fans would be wishing they could be more like us, but they have a lot of players who have played in the prem for a good few years. Also they're a bigger club with more money coming in.

Efficiency,

 

As someone else has mentioned they underperformed last year massively,

 

Allardyce makes his teams hard to beat.

 

 

Averages say that if you hoof the ball into the box enough times, atleast once the ball will drop to one of their players and give them a chance.

 

We've looked long term while they've looked short term,

 

They have momentum from having a good start which breads confidence.

This is an excellent summary, they massively underperformed last year. Everyone expected them to steamroller the championship with a prem squad, but they didn't - far from it.

Saints, on the other hand, massively overperformed and (crucially) built up a lot of early momentum in the season which never relented for long enough for us to drop out of the top two.

This season, we have only bad momentum and it will be very hard to overturn. West Ham have had a good start, signed some key players in the spine of their team and play effective football..fair play to them.

They'll still finish bottom half though, but annoyingly look like they won't be joining us in our relegation battle this year after all

As someone on MOTD said the other week - it was probably harder for them to get out of the Championship than it will be to stay in the Premier League. Their players knew it was sh*t or bust for them last season, whereas there was no pressure on us.

 

carroll is utter garbage..

This pretty much sums up your understanding of football. Jumping on bandwagons. It's fashionable to slate Carroll, but he has the potential to be a quality player and I'm certain he will do well wherever he plays, if teams play to his strengths.

This pretty much sums up your understanding of football. Jumping on bandwagons. It's fashionable to slate Carroll, but he has the potential to be a quality player and I'm certain he will do well wherever he plays, if teams play to his strengths.

i was being sarcastic..as so so many on here aid carroll was utter garbage at the time he signed for west ham

last year i remember allardyce saying that if he had ricky lambert , the hammers would have waltzed the league and they wouldve. theyve added decent prem quality players to the squad whereas youve gone and added a few long shots. west ham will finish between 9th and 13th in this league have a £ 10 on it

i was being sarcastic..as so so many on here aid carroll was utter garbage at the time he signed for west ham

any team that signs a 2 stone overweight gk , shouldnt take the p out of anyone else

any team that signs a 2 stone overweight gk , shouldnt take the p out of anyone else

our signings are long term......apparently

i was being sarcastic..as so so many on here aid carroll was utter garbage at the time he signed for west ham

Sorry delldays, I didn't realise.

our signings are long term......apparently

wont be that long term if you drop out of the prem this season...and anyway your team hasnt been managed by avram grant , even though you seem to be slating NA on every thread, its the nature of football that even pardew was getting slaughteree at home today when imo , the mans a genius

wont be that long term if you drop out of the prem this season...and anyway your team hasnt been managed by avram grant , even though you seem to be slating NA on every thread, its the nature of football that even pardew was getting slaughteree at home today when imo , the mans a genius

Not being funny or anything, but are you really the finest that Chigwell has to offer?

The difference is Prem experience both on the pitch and off it and a very different set of early season fixtures - have they played Man U at home, Man City and Arsenal away? Last season we were marginally better than them in the nPC across the whole season and by the end of this season we'll be able to see who was better in the Prem.

This

Whats the difference...........West Ham have a lad called...Diame in midfield..

If we could aquire someone like him

OR

WBA had Mulumbu:)

We have:scared:........?

That is the difference:rolleyes:

Not being funny or anything' date=' but are you really the finest that Chigwell has to offer?[/quote']

He comes from Chigwell. The opposite of "Chigwell's finest" is "Chigwell's fatest", spelling was never a strong point in that neck of the woods.

not really a great deal to do with anything..we were better than them for about every game last season....we beat them and drew against them and most were in agreement that they were terrible, have a terrible manager that plays hoofball and will probably go down....

 

they have hardly signed anyone of any note.....IMO

What a stupid comment.

Diame, Jarvis and Carroll?

Jaaskleinen Collins benayoun....yep that's a lot of players who have a lot of prem experience.

They don't **** about in their own half, get the ball up front quickly with a high tempo.

This is what frustrates me about our style of play. We seem unwilling to play the early pass and hit teams on the break with any real consistency, preferring instead to turn back and play it through the congested middle of the park.

Jaaskleinen Collins benayoun....yep that's a lot of players who have a lot of prem experience.

Carroll, Jarvis, Nolan, Noble off the top of my head have Prem experience.

Prem experience and they will get rid of Carroll January. The bought Collins (back) from Villa. He is not the best footballer you will ever see but he can head the ball and block shots and does not make stupid mistakes in his own pen box. He and Winston Reid have formed a good partnership. They get the ball quickly out of defence out to midfield. Overall a poor side but well organised with a solid structure.

Are we going to see TDD's post about West Ham each time they win? That would be interesting wouldn't it.