Alain Perrin Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 I've just been reading Dave Jone's autobiography and can recommend it. Interesting points to mull over: - damning of Internet message boards and how the things written can affect players mentally. - Says that he suspects most posters live sad lonely lives (in part that seems to be triggered by some of the things said about him in during the abuse case). - Strong praise of Rupert Lowe and what he achieved at Saints. Certainly contrary to the common view and what some, with their all powerful NDA theories, would have you believe. - Unhappy with the way he was put on gardening leave - which you wouldn't expect him to be happy about. - An annecdote about about a kiss n' tell story involving a Saint's player, a laydee and a chicken leg....! Anyone know who that was? He doesn't say. - Warm praise for Saints and fans. In the past (brave new world and all that), but an interesting view. Anyway, read it for yourself. A good book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 I've just been reading Dave Jone's autobiography and can recommend it. Interesting points to mull over: - damning of Internet message boards and how the things written can affect players mentally. - Says that he suspects most posters live sad lonely lives (in part that seems to be triggered by some of the things said about him in during the abuse case). - Strong praise of Rupert Lowe and what he achieved at Saints. Certainly contrary to the common view and what some, with their all powerful NDA theories, would have you believe. - Unhappy with the way he was put on gardening leave - which you wouldn't expect him to be happy about. - An annecdote about about a kiss n' tell story involving a Saint's player, a laydee and a chicken leg....! Anyone know who that was? He doesn't say. - Warm praise for Saints and fans. In the past (brave new world and all that), but an interesting view. Anyway, read it for yourself. A good book. Thanks for the recommendation. One of football's good guys and he interviewed really well on BBC Breakfast the other morning and there were no shouts of get that opinionated idiot of the sofa as usual. Mind you they had a dentist appointment that morning so left early so I was able to sit and watch it and comfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Charteris Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 I know this has been mentioned before, but do the NDAs become null and void after SLH is wound up? If so, spill the beans! Dave Jones - top bloke. Lowe should have appointed a caretaker manager during his absence. Hoddle's appointment must have been an "et tu Brute" moment. He deserved better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Thanks for the recommendation. One of football's good guys and he interviewed really well on BBC Breakfast the other morning and there were no shouts of get that opinionated idiot of the sofa as usual. Mind you they had a dentist appointment that morning so left early so I was able to sit and watch it and comfort. Totally agree. A real decent, down to earth bloke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 8 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 8 July, 2009 I know this has been mentioned before, but do the NDAs become null and void after SLH is wound up? If so, spill the beans! Dave Jones - top bloke. Lowe should have appointed a caretaker manager during his absence. Hoddle's appointment must have been an "et tu Brute" moment. He deserved better. Yes. If they exist AND if there is anything to say. I don't think there are as many beans to spill as some would suggest. Certainly Jones would have most reason to spite Lowe. No doubt he had issues and we can be a strong united club in ways we could never be under Lowe. I doubt he's the devil some would like to portray (mostly with emotion rather than evidence). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/jul/10/small-talk-dave-jones-cardiff-city Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/jul/10/small-talk-dave-jones-cardiff-city I never knew he wanted us to release him instead of putting him on gardening leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 I've just been reading Dave Jone's autobiography and can recommend it. Interesting points to mull over: - damning of Internet message boards and how the things written can affect players mentally. - Says that he suspects most posters live sad lonely lives (in part that seems to be triggered by some of the things said about him in during the abuse case). - Strong praise of Rupert Lowe and what he achieved at Saints. Certainly contrary to the common view and what some, with their all powerful NDA theories, would have you believe. - Unhappy with the way he was put on gardening leave - which you wouldn't expect him to be happy about. - An annecdote about about a kiss n' tell story involving a Saint's player, a laydee and a chicken leg....! Anyone know who that was? He doesn't say. - Warm praise for Saints and fans. In the past (brave new world and all that), but an interesting view. Anyway, read it for yourself. A good book. Doesn't surprise me, he's got his head screwed on tbh. I don't hate Rupert rabidly and I concede he made mistakes, big ones. However, I don't consider him to be anything other than genuine with his intentions. Anyway, let's not get into that. He's probably spot on about the cyber warriors... I have to say, it infuriates me too. Though I contribute, one of the most annoying things is the lack of balance in opinion on these boards... people just lose the plot sometimes, completely. As for the Saints player... Brian Howard, Cyprus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaysaint Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 I think all of this NDA stuff is just invented by posters on here who can't believe that every player and manager we've had hasn't left because they hate Lowe. For example, I never believed Strachan would have signed one and I never got the impression he left because of Lowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 I wouldn't say his praise for Rupert was "strong" - there are parts in the book when he is quite critical. One instance mentioned was just before the start of last season, after ringing Rupert up to enquire after a Saints player Lowe had boasted that "with his youth Saints were going to storm the league". Jones found that quite amusing I gather. In his first day at Saints he met 3 members of SISA in the car park who virtually threatened him if he ever dropped MLT. He went to say, in his opinion SISA had too big an input in the running of Saints. Quite an odd thing to say I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Nut Can Cut You Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 I think all of this NDA stuff is just invented by posters on here who can't believe that every player and manager we've had hasn't left because they hate Lowe. Departing managers usually sign an NDA that lasts for three or four years. Stuart Gray's revelation after the expiry of his NDA was that he was sacked too hastily and that he didn't sign Delgado. The shock waves of Gray's revelations are still felt as you can see from the way we've plummeted through the leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 Did Internet forums exist back then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 Lowe should have appointed a caretaker manager during his absence. Hoddle's appointment must have been an "et tu Brute" moment. He deserved better. He probably did deserve better, but I still maintain (and in no way would I ever defend RL) that had a decision been made on purely footballing reasons Dave Jones could and should have been sacked that season. We were awful until Hoddle came in. Now the child abuse case may have been a factor in that or it may not, we will never know, but in fairness I think, for the sake of the football club, Lowe did the right thing. I never thought i would read myself having said that........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 He probably did deserve better, but I still maintain (and in no way would I ever defend RL) that had a decision been made on purely footballing reasons Dave Jones could and should have been sacked that season. We were awful until Hoddle came in. Now the child abuse case may have been a factor in that or it may not, we will never know, but in fairness I think, for the sake of the football club, Lowe did the right thing. I never thought i would read myself having said that........... I agree with all of that. As sorry as I felt for DJ, I remember being relieved he had gone especially having witnessed first hand a 5-0 debacle at Newcastle a couple of weeks before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 He probably did deserve better, but I still maintain (and in no way would I ever defend RL) that had a decision been made on purely footballing reasons Dave Jones could and should have been sacked that season. We were awful until Hoddle came in. Now the child abuse case may have been a factor in that or it may not, we will never know, but in fairness I think, for the sake of the football club, Lowe did the right thing. I never thought i would read myself having said that........... Yes I think you are probably right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 Did Internet forums exist back then? He maybe talking about Forums now but they have been around for sometime and I agree with him as I feel players reading forums in some cases must feel rather deflated I would have thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 I wouldn't say his praise for Rupert was "strong" - there are parts in the book when he is quite critical. One instance mentioned was just before the start of last season, after ringing Rupert up to enquire after a Saints player Lowe had boasted that "with his youth Saints were going to storm the league". Jones found that quite amusing I gather. In his first day at Saints he met 3 members of SISA in the car park who virtually threatened him if he ever dropped MLT. He went to say, in his opinion SISA had too big an input in the running of Saints. Quite an odd thing to say I thought. Maybe Guy the Snake told him those nasty SISA People and the fans made us sack Branfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_mears Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 Since when have books actually held a true account of goings on ? Lawyers cut out everything of interest for of being sued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 He's probably spot on about the cyber warriors... I have to say, it infuriates me too. Though I contribute, one of the most annoying things is the lack of balance in opinion on these boards... people just lose the plot sometimes, completely. It's more than that, though, CL. It's the fact that some people post nasty stuff that they'd never have the balls to say to someone's face, and then try to excuse themselves by saying "It's not as if anyone reads an internet forum". I think a lot more people read these things than we give them credit for - players, managers, agents, owners, journalists. Short of running a proper survey they are the only real way of finding out what "committed" fans think. That's how the world works these days. It wouldn't surprise me at all if these forums have the power to convince players not to sign and buyers not to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 It's more than that, though, CL. It's the fact that some people post nasty stuff that they'd never have the balls to say to someone's face, and then try to excuse themselves by saying "It's not as if anyone reads an internet forum". I think a lot more people read these things than we give them credit for - players, managers, agents, owners, journalists. Short of running a proper survey they are the only real way of finding out what "committed" fans think. That's how the world works these days. It wouldn't surprise me at all if these forums have the power to convince players not to sign and buyers not to buy. Or players like McGoldrick to leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 I agree with all of that. As sorry as I felt for DJ, I remember being relieved he had gone especially having witnessed first hand a 5-0 debacle at Newcastle a couple of weeks before. I have to say that it was a tough decision at the time. Here I think RL did the right thing. Saints were 18th in the league and DJ could have expected the sack any day.... purely on grounds of poor results. Good call IMHO. Excellent replacement choice in Hoddle ...at the time. The issue of the court case (terribly handled and long-drawn out) certainly must have affected his judgment a lot and distracted him form the task of managing a Prem club try to avoid relegation ! Nevertheless... nice bloke, and I do wish him well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky morris Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 At the time DJ was removed I thought Lowe treated him badly, but i have to say the Saints team at the time was pretty poor & he was border line for the sack anyway for football reasons. He made some excellent signings, but more very very poor ones. Lee Todd anybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 No smoke without fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suewhistle Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 No smoke without fire? B******s, that is so easy to say, just as it is easy for people in care to throw out accusations, especially when compensation is in view or they feel powerful for the first time in their lives. Sometimes you wonder why anyone would want to be a teacher, care worker, support staff etc. He was aquitted after a full and stressful investigation and court case. No wonder he couldn't do a decent job at the time, and in that respect both DJ and RL had my sympathies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 (edited) B******s, that is so easy to say, just as it is easy for people in care to throw out accusations, especially when compensation is in view or they feel powerful for the first time in their lives. Sometimes you wonder why anyone would want to be a teacher, care worker, support staff etc. He was aquitted after a full and stressful investigation and court case. No wonder he couldn't do a decent job at the time, and in that respect both DJ and RL had my sympathies. Well said Miss Whistle but it is the title of the book http://www.amazon.co.uk/No-Smoke-Fire-Autobiography-Jones/dp/1848185138/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1247603494&sr=1-3 Edited 14 July, 2009 by John B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 (edited) B******s, that is so easy to say, just as it is easy for people in care to throw out accusations, especially when compensation is in view or they feel powerful for the first time in their lives. Sometimes you wonder why anyone would want to be a teacher, care worker, support staff etc. He was aquitted after a full and stressful investigation and court case. No wonder he couldn't do a decent job at the time, and in that respect both DJ and RL had my sympathies. Pretty sure its the name of his book...... Edited 14 July, 2009 by saint_stevo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN MY DAY Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 A few rose tinted glass on here me thinks, i liked DJ and have always followed his path through his various clubs he came in at the right time and did a very good job but there is no denying we were sliding towards relagation that season before Hoddle stepped into the breach. I look forward to reading the book. I think Lowe did the right thing but not necesarily the right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 No smoke without fire? WHAT AN ARSEHOLE! If a judge says it should have not gone to court then there is no fire! Jesus mate, hope the same thing never happens to you one day because i can imagine it must be one of the worst things to try and defend because once it is said then you have complete cretins like you saying crap like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 WHAT AN ARSEHOLE! If a judge says it should have not gone to court then there is no fire! Jesus mate, hope the same thing never happens to you one day because i can imagine it must be one of the worst things to try and defend because once it is said then you have complete cretins like you saying crap like that! take a breath and then google his book... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 WHAT AN ARSEHOLE! If a judge says it should have not gone to court then there is no fire! Jesus mate, hope the same thing never happens to you one day because i can imagine it must be one of the worst things to try and defend because once it is said then you have complete cretins like you saying crap like that! Calm down, then apologise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sparky Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 No smoke, no fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Karloff Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 WHAT AN ARSEHOLE! If a judge says it should have not gone to court then there is no fire! Jesus mate, hope the same thing never happens to you one day because i can imagine it must be one of the worst things to try and defend because once it is said then you have complete cretins like you saying crap like that! Exactly, Didn't the judge say the whole case was a disgrace? To think all the things DJ and his family had to go through and yet there are still idiots out there that write such c**p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat from Poole Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 I wouldn't say his praise for Rupert was "strong" - there are parts in the book when he is quite critical. One instance mentioned was just before the start of last season, after ringing Rupert up to enquire after a Saints player Lowe had boasted that "with his youth Saints were going to storm the league". Jones found that quite amusing I gather. In his first day at Saints he met 3 members of SISA in the car park who virtually threatened him if he ever dropped MLT. He went to say, in his opinion SISA had too big an input in the running of Saints. Quite an odd thing to say I thought. Much LOLage. Rupert boasted that his young Saints were going to storm the League. And still some people defend the clown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 Exactly, Didn't the judge say the whole case was a disgrace? To think all the things DJ and his family had to go through and yet there are still idiots out there that write such c**p. take a breath and google his book... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 Calm down, then apologise Fair enough, i'm big enough to apologise, cept to say you obviously were out to catch people out, a bit personal to me as i am a mate to his son Lee, so it hit a nerve, but I have calmed down now, silly title for a book though (in his case) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 Much LOLage. Rupert boasted that his young Saints were going to storm the League. And still some people defend the clown. He even compared the youngsters under Poortvliet to Ferguson and the youngsters at United to a well placed fan prior to the start of the season:D With Jones, Lowe was in a no win situation and Jones should have got the boot based on his performances when all this blew up anyway. Whatever Lowe did was going to be wrong in someone's eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaramanga Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 the title is 'no smoke,no fire'.. not 'no smoke, without fire' its a reference to what the judge said ' there was no smoke,no fire' meaning the case should never have gone to court. DJ explained this in an interview on talksport recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belgiansaint Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 Met Dave once when he was manager at Wolves and he had a player on loan in my hometown club. We had a beer and a bit of Saints chat. Top, top bloke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 I wouldn't say his praise for Rupert was "strong" - there are parts in the book when he is quite critical. One instance mentioned was just before the start of last season, after ringing Rupert up to enquire after a Saints player Lowe had boasted that "with his youth Saints were going to storm the league". Jones found that quite amusing I gather. I think what is frustrating for some of us though Duncan is a quite simple fact... There are plenty of reasons to dislike Lowe... but its when every point mentioned is twisted into some sort of rational to hate him... the above is a prime example... in footballing terms an obvious mistake born out of arogance and perhaps naiviety or just bravado/confidence, but its not evil, I cant hate someone for making mistakes even if they dont learn from them - I guess there are plenty of us who still do the same stupid things day-to day despite the problems they cause us! This is only a minor instant, but its a good example of how fans are a very opinionated and scornful bunch - once the opinion is formed, nothing will change it and every little thing is treated as ....another example of failure and a reason for a qualty slagging.. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltshire Saint Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 You're being a c*ck Stevo. You were being deliberately provocative with your post and it is not pedantry to point out that "no smoke without fire" is COMPLETELY different to "No smoke, no fire". There are too many people who are quite happy to say outrageous things and then hide behind the "it's only the internet FFS" line. And don't try to pretend you weren't out for a reaction.....you were and you got one and most of those reactions are telling you that you are being silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article6578727.ece 5th from last paragraph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmbrm Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 No smoke without fire? t w @. Been said in later posts but needs to be restated, "There is no smoke without fire" and "there is no smoke and there is no fire" mean totally opposite things, and to edit "No smoke, no fire" into "no smoke without fire" and to then say they mean the same is hypocritical bull Sh!t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 i refer you to my previous post, i thought the book was called no smoke without fire, having read the thread on this a while ago and reading the piece in the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 (edited) No smoke without fire? Pretty sure its the name of his book...... If he'd called his book "no smoke without fire" then the book would have to be about how he did do what he was accused of after all, wouldn't it? People pointing out what an idiot you are is not pedantry, by the way. Edited 14 July, 2009 by CB Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 From the Times piece- The judge dismissed the case, declaring Jones innocent of all charges. “No doubt there will be people who are going to think there is no smoke without fire,” His Honour Judge David Clarke, QC , said. “I can do nothing about that except to say such an attitude would be wrong. No wrong-doing whatsoever on your part has been established.” Jones says: “You know, that is a phrase that I used to use a lot. ‘No smoke without a fire’. It just seems obvious that if there is a controversy surrounding someone, then something has to be wrong. But that is not a phrase you would hear me saying now. I have learnt the hard way that it is possible to be accused without there being a shred of truth. Ok i got the title wrong. **** me, i just read the article from an older thread and remembered it incorrectly. Older thread- http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=14438 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicko Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 Interesting what he says about internet forums I know in the days of S4E, Martin Crainie was a regular poster It can't be easy when you read a selection of fans saying you're crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin C Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 Cheers sounds like worth a read. He was hard done by, by the courts, we just needed to stay up so would do what we needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxfordshire_saint Posted 14 July, 2009 Share Posted 14 July, 2009 I want to know more about this chicken leg!!!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red and White Army Posted 15 July, 2009 Share Posted 15 July, 2009 i refer you to my previous post, i thought the book was called no smoke without fire, having read the thread on this a while ago and reading the piece in the times. Shut up already you twot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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