Our Position Or Pompey's?

[westofshannonsaint]

LMFAO.

......

 

um pahars, why when the thread was starting to get back on topic did you bring up the 19c subject again? cant people just ignore the troll? (although I sometimes find his post's quite funny)

 

post's like...

 

My god you are so boring - get a life mate.

 

...are not that constructive and do nothing other than prompt 19c (or whoever) to respond.

 

can people please follow pancake's advice...

 

Why not just ignore him and get on with the thread?

 

Mod's can we have another section called handbags at dawn or something to sort out these petty squables?

 

...anyway...

Sorry to interupt the bickering.

 

Our position or Pompey's

 

I do admit to chuckling when i think of Pompey's current position, I would not like to see P*mpey fold, although it will be interesting to see how the PL deal with a club going into admin (as apposed to the FL) but no more than Saints - Admin might be the best thing for ye. ye survive, albeit in the CCC, but debt free.

[Thedelldays]

looks like they got a take over then..

[London Saint]

Any truth in this?

 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/565335-portsmouth-new-investors-coming-today

[cambsaint]

Today's Telegraph has a very interesting article.

Standard Bank apparently want to be repaid £20 and get out.

They have had to go cap in hand top other clubs they owe transfer money to.

Al Fahaim is trying to amortise the TV income against a loan.

 

'As even a fule can see how stupid that would be', with relegation a very real possibility, I can't see that succeeding.

 

They appear to be desperately paddling up and down the many creeks around Portsea Island

without a paddle and having to resort to their hands.

 

I think someone will buy them but will wait for the bargain basement in or effectively in admin price.

 

Would you buy now, even if you wanted a Southern England Prem club?

[FloridaMarlin]

Any truth in this?

 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/565335-portsmouth-new-investors-coming-today

 

Doesn't contain a single quote, the writer admits it is his theory (but obviously wants us to think he is in the know) and the writer is our old friend, the trustworthy Anil Bhoyrul.

 

I think his past misdemeanours in share-punting and his integrity as a reliable journalist have been discussed on here in the past.

[dubai_phil]

Any truth in this?

 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/565335-portsmouth-new-investors-coming-today

 

 

That assumes SBT has actually got any cash. If he hasn't then why would PS and others team up with him?

[Eyes k8]

I can confirm that something may have happened but we are unsure what, who, why or how. If our ownership is split between Storrie and AL Fahim it will be a disaster. If that is the case get some throat medicine in You'll be laughing at our expense for the next couple of years. We seem to have swapped structures. Give me a single owner any day.

[ruddick]

Today's Telegraph has a very interesting article.

Standard Bank apparently want to be repaid £20 and get out.

?

 

Can P****y not even repay small change?

[dickyhale]

I remember this getting posted a while ago, some Vaseline pots came out. (check old posts)

[Eyes k8]

Richard Li and Holger Heims. David Dein joins board. You heard it here first.

[Alright Dave]

Richard Li and Holger Heims. David Dein joins board. You heard it here first.

 

Where did you get that from? It would certainly be good for you lot IF its true, am very suprised nothing has snuck out in any media though if this was true. Li is certainly very wealthy and Heims has been linked with Chelsea takeovers in the past.

[Eyes k8]

Where did you get that from? It would certainly be good for you lot IF its true, am very suprised nothing has snuck out in any media though if this was true. Li is certainly very wealthy and Heims has been linked with Chelsea takeovers in the past.

 

Heims also joins board.

 

Other consortium members Lee Shau Kee, Zhang Zhixiang, Martin Veisman, Staphan Quandit, Axel Oberwelland, Wolfgang Herz

[Alright Dave]

Well can't see that working at all, and also talk of Fahim joining that group why would they want him involved?

[Wes Tender]

I heard that the club was being taken over by the owners of the Greyhound Stadium and that dog racing would take place there on nights when there weren't matches. Mind you, I could have gotten the wrong end of the stick when I heard somebody say that Pompey were going to the dogs.

[daveygwyatt]

so have pompey been taken over? or are they likely to be taken over? and if so is it going to be before transfer deadline?

[Bairdylegend]

...Id taken Pompeys position. They didn tget beaten by Swindon last night........

[dubai_phil]

I can confirm that something may have happened but we are unsure what, who, why or how. If our ownership is split between Storrie and AL Fahim it will be a disaster. If that is the case get some throat medicine in You'll be laughing at our expense for the next couple of years. We seem to have swapped structures. Give me a single owner any day.

 

Exactly my thoughts while watching Sportsline on Sky News tonight

 

A consortium rescue is one thing, but a consortium made up of so many business culture imbalances. Heck would make our old days look like bliss

 

Don't get me wrong, I hope that something happens, it's just that the SBT thing was hysterical from the beginning. Especially when I finally drop my one and only ITK bombshell :cool:

[dubai_phil]

And the score tonight was????

 

Lol the sk*tes are below Burnley

[S-Clarke]

And the score tonight was????

 

Lol the sk*tes are below Burnley

 

lol@portsmouth.

 

it was a 91st min pen for brum too. Nice

[Fitzhugh Fella]

And the score tonight was????

 

Lol the sk*tes are below Burnley

 

Last minute penalty!

Best news I've had all week.

[Victor]

Last minute penalty!

Best news I've had all week.

 

Coupled with Burnley beating MU!

[RedArmy]

And the score tonight was????

 

Lol the sk*tes are below Burnley

We're TWO DIVISIONS below Burnley.

[dubai_phil]

We're TWO DIVISIONS below Burnley.

 

 

There you go, stating the bleedin obvious again...

 

Although with minus 9 I suppose techincally we're nearly 3 divisions below

 

But it was funneh, just for a few moments before you came along:D

[Right sider]

Phil, what is your bombshell?

[Eyes k8]

Well can't see that working at all, and also talk of Fahim joining that group why would they want him involved?

 

I think this is just face saving. He is not rumoured to be one of the investors, although has links with Heims. I think Al F. will fade out just as quickly as he did at City. They don't need his money even if he had any, they are worth 50+billion between them. The hong Kong boys are used to working with western business cultures. Well it hasn't come off yet, we'll see.

[mcjwills]

lol@portsmouth.

 

it was a 91st min pen for brum too. Nice

 

You can imagine the conversation between Hart & James on Tuesday

 

James: Paul I want a Transfer

Hart: David we need you your going nowhere

James: We will see about that after tomorrow night!! Oops did I give away a penalty in injury time.

Hart: Yeah & we will see how you love the kit I'm gonna make you wear.

[Wes Tender]

I think this is just face saving. He is not rumoured to be one of the investors, although has links with Heims. I think Al F. will fade out just as quickly as he did at City. They don't need his money even if he had any, they are worth 50+billion between them. The hong Kong boys are used to working with western business cultures. Well it hasn't come off yet, we'll see.

 

Just loves the fantasists who believe that they will get taken over by a consortium with enough wealth to buy pretty well any football club in the country. Under those circumstances, why would they buy Pompey with its crappy old stadium and threadbare team?

[hypochondriac]

Last minute penalty!

Best news I've had all week.

 

At last something we can agree on

[dubai_phil]

Another reason why poor old SBT won't be getting paid any bonus cheque any time soon......

 

http://business.maktoob.com/20090000366410/Fears_grow_Dubai_debt_far_more_than_$80_bln/Article.htm?utm_campaign=Night-Newsletter&utm_medium=Main-News1&utm_source=Night-Newsletter&utm_content=

 

Jeez, the sk*tes ALMOST owed as much as this place.

 

Now we're broke, all the companies dealing with property are broke and SBT's going to collect a 100mil bung...

 

Dear oh Lord, you couldn't make it up

 

Could we?? :-)

[Eyes k8]

Just loves the fantasists who believe that they will get taken over by a consortium with enough wealth to buy pretty well any football club in the country. Under those circumstances, why would they buy Pompey with its crappy old stadium and threadbare team?

 

Well obviously money.

 

You may have to spend about 150m in maintenance and building a ground but if you end up with a 40k ground with good access and 90% attenance you have something worth 300m.

 

Rupert built you St mary's for similar reasons because it's worth more than the dell and can hold a greater capacity.

 

You have to have the money first however the credit crunch put pay to Sacha. You make money by changing things. No point in buying us if you are going to leave the cow shed as it is. If these guys come on board it will be because they believe they can make money out of developing us, they'd hardly do it otherwise would they. We'll see if it happens.

[krissyboy31]

Well obviously money.

 

You may have to spend about 150m in maintenance and building a ground but if you end up with a 40k ground with good access and 90% attenance you have something worth 300m.

 

Rupert built you St mary's for similar reasons because it's worth more than the dell and can hold a greater capacity.

 

You have to have the money first however the credit crunch put pay to Sacha. You make money by changing things. No point in buying us if you are going to leave the cow shed as it is. If these guys come on board it will be because they believe they can make money out of developing us, they'd hardly do it otherwise would they. We'll see if it happens.

What I think Wes is saying is why spend £xmillion on PFC and then take on all your liabilities and still have to stump up to build a new stadium and new training complex, when there are similar sized clubs in the premier league who have not sold all their best players, have already got decent facilities and have nowhere near as many debts as you?

[scally]

Well obviously money.

 

You may have to spend about 150m in maintenance and building a ground but if you end up with a 40k ground with good access and 90% attenance you have something worth 300m.

 

Rupert built you St mary's for similar reasons because it's worth more than the dell and can hold a greater capacity.

 

You have to have the money first however the credit crunch put pay to Sacha. You make money by changing things. No point in buying us if you are going to leave the cow shed as it is. If these guys come on board it will be because they believe they can make money out of developing us, they'd hardly do it otherwise would they. We'll see if it happens.

 

Its going to look great with 17k in this new stadium. Seriously you don't really think Pompey would ever be worth 300m, even the top four have got into massive debt to stay where they are. Getting top name players to go to London, Liverpool or Manchester is one thing but who the feck is going to want to come and live in skatesmouth.

[Eyes k8]

What I think Wes is saying is why spend £xmillion on PFC and then take on all your liabilities and still have to stump up to build a new stadium and new training complex, when there are similar sized clubs in the premier league who have not sold all their best players, have already got decent facilities and have nowhere near as many debts as you?

 

The answer is still the same-Money. If for instance you buy Stoke how are you going to make money out of it. It is already in the top division and has been developed. Better to buy either

 

1) A dump that are in the premiership and redevelop the place or

 

2) A division 3 club thats already developed but would be worth more if it was in the premiership.

 

There's the rub the two clubs are attractive business propositions, one because it's a dump the other because it's unsucessful. Lieber could have brought a top division club but he didn't did he.

[aintforever]

Well obviously money.

 

You may have to spend about 150m in maintenance and building a ground but if you end up with a 40k ground with good access and 90% attenance you have something worth 300m.

 

Do you really think blowing £150m on Pompey makes sound business sense when they could own Newcastle for 80m?

[dubai_phil]

There are a number of PL clubs that can be bought for around 100mil.

 

Now back to our neighbours, let's do the logic.

 

Storrie comes up with a new consortium bid on say what, Friday?

 

Let's say it would take them the weekend to get the paperwork done and submit the names to the PL for the F&PPT

 

With a rush they may finish their due dilligence on Wednesday

 

Allowing the sale documents to be drafted on Thursday, so if they are VERY lucky, they may just get their bank accounts sorted out and funds transferred on Friday, which will of course give Paul Hart & his Assistant manager (oops) the princely total of Saturday Sunday and Monday to identify their transfer targets to rebuild a squad that won't stay below Burnley all season.

 

Great scenario for a 150mil gamble. We all know that football club takeovers happen in less than a week don't we.

 

Or would they be looking at the remnants of the squad and going hmmm.

 

Now the ONLY way anyone could sell that type of deal would be to

 

Oh yes have a dodgy geezer in a white coat helping out

 

Let's watch the clock shall we

[Amesbury Saint]

have they not left it rather late for this season? It they were interested, would they have have bought in June / July and then purchased top quality players.

 

Instead they could buy a team that goes down this year?

[krissyboy31]

The answer is still the same-Money. If for instance you buy Stoke how are you going to make money out of it. It is already in the top division and has been developed. Better to buy either

 

1) A dump that are in the premiership and redevelop the place or

 

2) A division 3 club thats already developed but would be worth more if it was in the premiership.

 

There's the rub the two clubs are attractive business propositions, one because it's a dump the other because it's unsucessful. Lieber could have brought a top division club but he didn't did he.

 

But Leibherr bought us out of Administration for around £16 million (this years interest on his personal fortune), no debt, no stadium to build and no training complex to develop. The only further outlay is to fund the playing budget over the year (a percentage being self funding anyway) and in 4, 5, 6 years all being well he will own a Premier League club worth several times his outlay.

 

The guys buying you will have to pay SG around £40 million, take on a similar value in debts and liabilities fund a stadium which will cost £80/100 million a training complex @ approx £15/20 million before any cash goes into funding the football team. If it's going to take £50 million to rebuild the squad to where you were under Redknapp then that's going to cost these guys a quarter of a billion. I think Stoke is a safer bet TBH.

[Wes Tender]

The answer is still the same-Money. If for instance you buy Stoke how are you going to make money out of it. It is already in the top division and has been developed. Better to buy either

 

1) A dump that are in the premiership and redevelop the place or

 

2) A division 3 club thats already developed but would be worth more if it was in the premiership.

 

There's the rub the two clubs are attractive business propositions, one because it's a dump the other because it's unsucessful. Lieber could have brought a top division club but he didn't did he.

 

The fact that this particular division 3 club has been bought by a billionaire whose aim is to return it to the Premiership in the next few years, makes anybody buying your dump an even worse proposition than it already is. The massive gamble is that if you get relegated this season, it will be money wasted if you are not in the Premiership. If the stadium is not built, the income will not sustain the club. Unless you are in the Premiership in 4/5 years time, many of your potential fanbase will come over to us if we are back in the Premiership by then.

 

You might bracket the 3rd division club with the great infrastructure together with the Premiership dump as good buys, but we were a bargain and rare, there not being many clubs with anything like our facilities for anywhere near as low a price. As a wealthy buyer could pick up several other clubs in the Premiership with everything already in place and for much less than it would cost to get you up to that standard, they would have to be barking to buy you.

[pfc123]

There are a number of PL clubs that can be bought for around 100mil.

 

Now back to our neighbours, let's do the logic.

 

Storrie comes up with a new consortium bid on say what, Friday?

 

Let's say it would take them the weekend to get the paperwork done and submit the names to the PL for the F&PPT

 

With a rush they may finish their due dilligence on Wednesday

 

Allowing the sale documents to be drafted on Thursday, so if they are VERY lucky, they may just get their bank accounts sorted out and funds transferred on Friday, which will of course give Paul Hart & his Assistant manager (oops) the princely total of Saturday Sunday and Monday to identify their transfer targets to rebuild a squad that won't stay below Burnley all season.

 

Great scenario for a 150mil gamble. We all know that football club takeovers happen in less than a week don't we.

 

Or would they be looking at the remnants of the squad and going hmmm.

 

Now the ONLY way anyone could sell that type of deal would be to

 

Oh yes have a dodgy geezer in a white coat helping out

 

Let's watch the clock shall we

 

Yes, lets. What you're forgetting is that Storrie doesn't have to pass a FPPT and crucially, neither does David Dein having already got a clean track record with Arsenal. If they then get A.N. Others onboard with less than 10% stakes each, they also don't have to have a FPPT.

 

There are ways and means....

[St David]

Yes, lets. What you're forgetting is that Storrie doesn't have to pass a FPPT and crucially, neither does David Dein having already got a clean track record with Arsenal. If they then get A.N. Others onboard with less than 10% stakes each, they also don't have to have a FPPT.

 

There are ways and means....

 

So got Dein got the lion share of the money to buy Skates then, I'm sure Storrie will only be like a fugure head and not put in any vest sum of personal moneyin himself. He's been an employee of clubs so can't be that rich himself dispite all the back handers he got to look the other way when his mate Harry was at the club

 

alledgedly LOL

Edited 21 August, 2009 by St David

[hypochondriac]

That sounds well dodgy

[dubai_phil]

Yes, lets. What you're forgetting is that Storrie doesn't have to pass a FPPT and crucially, neither does David Dein having already got a clean track record with Arsenal. If they then get A.N. Others onboard with less than 10% stakes each, they also don't have to have a FPPT.

 

There are ways and means....

 

Ah but unfortunately you miss one critical part of FPPT.

 

The name of the beneficial owner.

 

Not just for the PL but also for basic UK company regulations. That also needs to be approved, which is why SBT is not running around spending Thaksin's pension fund already

[eelpie]

So got Dein got the lion share of the money to buy Skates then, I'm sure Storrie will only be like a fugure head and not put in any vest sum of personal moneyin himself. He's been an employee of clubs so can't be that rich himself dispite all the back handers he got to look the other way when his mate Harry was at the club

 

alledgedly lol

 

(It is now illegal to libel/slander on the internet following a reason court ruling. HTH)

[FloridaMarlin]

Yes, lets. What you're forgetting is that Storrie doesn't have to pass a FPPT and crucially, neither does David Dein having already got a clean track record with Arsenal. If they then get A.N. Others onboard with less than 10% stakes each, they also don't have to have a FPPT.

 

There are ways and means....

 

Therein lies Storrie's biggest problem, I'm told, trying to presuade all these immensely wealthy men that they should only take a 5% stake each.

 

It's a bit like going to the Dragon's Den and asking for a huge great pile of cash, in return for a small stake in the business.

 

I've genuinely got no issue with p****y being taken over, and good luck to them.

 

But I trust you have spoken to Notts County fans about their opinions of the time Storrie was in charge at Meadow Lane.

 

I personally would not want that man in charge of my club, but then again, if he's the only player at the table....

[Ken Tone]

Yes, lets. What you're forgetting is that Storrie doesn't have to pass a FPPT and crucially, neither does David Dein having already got a clean track record with Arsenal. If they then get A.N. Others onboard with less than 10% stakes each, they also don't have to have a FPPT.

 

There are ways and means....

 

Surely as new owners they'd still have to pass the test? Genuine question, not a dig.

 

It's reasonable to assume they'd pass easily given their track record, but that must take a day or two at least.

 

I wouldn't want Pompey to see go under completely, but I reckon you're pretty well screwed for the near future whatever happens. You're only a plausible investment whilst you are in the premiership ..that's your only asset really in professional football terms.. so spending big money to take over your debts from Gaydamak when vthat staus is far from guaranteed would be a hell of a gamble for anyone.

 

Dein's not stupid, and I don't see him as having been a closet diehard pompey fan during all those years at Arsenal, so he'd want a safe return on his investment.

 

K.

[Eyes k8]

Do you really think blowing £150m on Pompey makes sound business sense when they could own Newcastle for 80m?

 

I'd like to think you're joking but I suspect you're not. Why do you think the price at Newcastle has dropped from 400m to 80m? It's not just the loss of prem and associated income, it's the liabilities with players still on prem wages. So your 80m buys you a further 100m+ in liabilities. That's why it appears to be cheap but it's a poison chalice. Pompey is clearly a better bet.

 

A more resonable comparison might be why not buy Stoke rather than Pompey. I think a lot of you are confusing cost with profit. If you buy Stoke now you have to pay full price for a premiership club. How are you going to make a profit? Sell more pies?

 

Clearly with Pompey the question is can you make money out of building a new ground. If Billionnaires who are good at making money believe so, I doubt if you are right and they are wrong. But it hasn't happened yet and maybe it won't. If it is not financially viable to redevelop us, the club has little real future and you'd better start looking around for some new rivals even if you stay in div 3.

[mcjwills]

I'd like to think you're joking but I suspect you're not. Why do you think the price at Newcastle has dropped from 400m to 80m? It's not just the loss of prem and associated income, it's the liabilities with players still on prem wages. So your 80m buys you a further 100m+ in liabilities. That's why it appears to be cheap but it's a poison chalice. Pompey is clearly a better bet.

 

A more resonable comparison might be why not buy Stoke rather than Pompey. I think a lot of you are confusing cost with profit. If you buy Stoke now you have to pay full price for a premiership club. How are you going to make a profit? Sell more pies?

 

Clearly with Pompey the question is can you make money out of building a new ground. If Billionnaires who are good at making money believe so, I doubt if you are right and they are wrong. But it hasn't happened yet and maybe it won't. If it is not financially viable to redevelop us, the club has little real future and you'd better start looking around for some new rivals even if you stay in div 3.

 

If an investor is looking to buy a premier league club, the wise way would be to buy a club in shoutings reach of promotion from the championship at say aprox 40M including a decent ground, and invest £20M in players to achieve their goal. With an additional 20M in transfer funds the next year, for possibly 80M you have a premier league club with a chance of staying there if not you will at least get the 3 year parachute payments that will pay you back a large percentage of your outlay. Still a cheaper option than PFC

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

 

I wouldn't want Pompey to see go under completely, but I reckon you're pretty well screwed for the near future whatever happens. You're only a plausible investment whilst you are in the premiership ..that's your only asset really in professional football terms..

 

K.

 

This is so true .

 

Without their precarious EPL status Pompey are just one of 100 or so middling regional clubs with modest support , antiquated facilities and strictly limited income generating potential . If they lose that crucial Premier League membership this season (looking a pretty good bet I'd say) it may well take a generation to regain it - if at all .

 

From a strict profit and loss perspective you have to be slightly odd to invest in the soundest of football clubs , in PFC's case I think we can move on from 'slightly odd' to 'Clinically Insane' .

[Channon's Sideburns]

What's the bet that this latest Poopey Consortium is another ruse to keep their players of worth on board until after the Transfer Window?

 

e.g one day after the deadline it 'mysteriously collapses'?

 

Just a thought - as we all know, TRUE takeovers happen behind closed doors with the minimum of fuss - no leading Press Releases required.

 

My Pompey Golf mate told me today he's already given up on it.

[aintforever]

I'd like to think you're joking but I suspect you're not. Why do you think the price at Newcastle has dropped from 400m to 80m? It's not just the loss of prem and associated income, it's the liabilities with players still on prem wages. So your 80m buys you a further 100m+ in liabilities. That's why it appears to be cheap but it's a poison chalice. Pompey is clearly a better bet.

 

A more resonable comparison might be why not buy Stoke rather than Pompey. I think a lot of you are confusing cost with profit. If you buy Stoke now you have to pay full price for a premiership club. How are you going to make a profit? Sell more pies?

 

Clearly with Pompey the question is can you make money out of building a new ground. If Billionnaires who are good at making money believe so, I doubt if you are right and they are wrong. But it hasn't happened yet and maybe it won't. If it is not financially viable to redevelop us, the club has little real future and you'd better start looking around for some new rivals even if you stay in div 3.

 

Do you really think it is financially viable to redevelop portsmouth?!?

 

Even if they take on your debt (how many millions god only knows), rebuild your team to one with a decent chance of staying up (£30mill?) and build a new ground (£50mill?), only then you have a club with an income comparible to Stoke - How are you going to make a profit? Sell more pies?

 

I'm sorry but the hard facts are Gaydamak wants his money back, the banks want their money back. Either you go into admin, sell all you players and go down then into admin, or find a billionare happy to chuck millions down a black hole. there is no other way out unless Hart is a genius.