matthieu Posted 23 August, 2009 Share Posted 23 August, 2009 I know the blame for our demise lies at the feet of many people who have had connections with Saints in many different roles from Directors/Chairmen, to Players and Managers, but has St. Mary's got anything to do with it? Are the players scared or overwhelmed by the size etc of it? Or is the emptyness of it a real downer on our players and a motivator for opposition players? Over the past 2 seasons, and the 2 home games this season our home record stands at this: Played 48 Won 13 Drawn 17 Lost 18 Scored 51 Conceded 58 Goal Difference -7 I'm not suggesting for a second that we up-sticks and build a new ground, but this is a problem as whatever league you play in, you MUST win you're home games. What does everyone else think about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 23 August, 2009 Share Posted 23 August, 2009 but we went through a league season a few years ago in the prem and only losing two at home (man utd and liverpool)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 23 August, 2009 Share Posted 23 August, 2009 It's a bigger handicap down here because it's the best stadium most of our opponents have played in, and I'm sure they lift their game as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthieu Posted 23 August, 2009 Author Share Posted 23 August, 2009 but we went through a league season a few years ago in the prem and only losing two at home (man utd and liverpool)... That was 5 or 6 seasons ago, maybe more than that. And unless i'm mistaken, we don't have anyone left at the club who was with us then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camdijk Posted 23 August, 2009 Share Posted 23 August, 2009 It's a bigger handicap down here because it's the best stadium most of our opponents have played in, and I'm sure they lift their game as a result. Perhaps that is part of our problem. Our boys are not motivated enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 23 August, 2009 Share Posted 23 August, 2009 It's a bigger handicap down here because it's the best stadium most of our opponents have played in, and I'm sure they lift their game as a result. It's a nice big wide pitch that under Burley, the Dutch and up to now Pardew has cried out for a team playing with width. We seem to be the only team I've seen at SMS in the last three years that hasn't played with proper width which means both touchlines at the same time. We have been turned over time and time again by teams attacking down our empty flanks and then hit from the empty blind side, while we struggle through a narrow midfield to score not many goals against a narrow packed defence. It's got nothing to do with the stadium it's the dire tactics and fancy dan players that don't put in the foot or the mileage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 23 August, 2009 Share Posted 23 August, 2009 Just won the Ashes:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 23 August, 2009 Share Posted 23 August, 2009 In short, "no". St Mary's didn't fail to tackle Brentford's left-back on Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stthrobber Posted 23 August, 2009 Share Posted 23 August, 2009 I'm not suggesting for a second that we up-sticks and build a new ground, but this is a problem as whatever league you play in, you MUST win you're home games. What does everyone else think about this? It's not the stadium per se, but it did saddle us with a debt that we couldn't sustain once we got relegated, which in turn affected our ability to finance new players and indeed pay the ones we already had. As for our current plight, it's probably down to the negative mentality of the players after several years of downers. That in turn transfers itself to the fragile temperament of the fans. (and no I'm not suggesting it's the fans fault) I believe once Pardew turns things round and we actually start winning games, things will be different, the fans will once again get fully behind the team (apart from Wotton). 19k for a home game at this level is pretty respectable, though Norwich had 5 or 6k on us yesterday, but it shows that the support is there, and you can get a few more on the gate with a winning team playing with confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_barmy_saints_army Posted 23 August, 2009 Share Posted 23 August, 2009 the record is nothing to be proud of but it not terrible. and if the players are frightened of st marys then they really shouldn't be playing at this level or they need a good kick up the u know wt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 23 August, 2009 Share Posted 23 August, 2009 A Brentford fan and a friend of mine said yesterday after the match he thought St Marys to be an intimidating place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 23 August, 2009 Share Posted 23 August, 2009 A Brentford fan and a friend of mine said yesterday after the match he thought St Marys to be an intimidating place. Not when it's empty -we have to keep the crowds up and hopefully we will. I hope the gainsayers will get it out of their system and keep attending. Now more than ever we are needed. Keep the Faith - COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintchris23 Posted 23 August, 2009 Share Posted 23 August, 2009 I miss The Dell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SET Posted 23 August, 2009 Share Posted 23 August, 2009 No, the problem in its entirety is too many kids played as first team regulars far to early in their development, thus leaving them tarnished with a losers mentality and no knowledge of how to be winners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 23 August, 2009 Share Posted 23 August, 2009 It's a nice big wide pitch that under Burley, the Dutch and up to now Pardew has cried out for a team playing with width. We seem to be the only team I've seen at SMS in the last three years that hasn't played with proper width which means both touchlines at the same time. We have been turned over time and time again by teams attacking down our empty flanks and then hit from the empty blind side, while we struggle through a narrow midfield to score not many goals against a narrow packed defence. It's got nothing to do with the stadium it's the dire tactics and fancy dan players that don't put in the foot or the mileage. Spot on, but add to that that the young players associate it with everything they have learnt whatever that is. What we've seen are the excuses ant the attitude that losing doesn't matter. It's not a place where our players grow two inches, but where they are gettin the wiff of complacency, breed it in and relaxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 23 August, 2009 Share Posted 23 August, 2009 Spot on, but add to that that the young players associate it with everything they have learnt whatever that is. What we've seen are the excuses ant the attitude that losing doesn't matter. It's not a place where our players grow two inches, but where they are gettin the wiff of complacency, breed it in and relaxes. That's why they have to go back to the reserves and be re-educated. Then introduced one at a time into a team that contains few of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxfordshire_saint Posted 23 August, 2009 Share Posted 23 August, 2009 We're technically unbeaten at home this season (although we've yet to win there) but both games away from home have been unbelievably poor, so I don't think it has any bearing. If the team isn't good enough, it isn't good enough, regardless of where the game is played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 23 August, 2009 Share Posted 23 August, 2009 Nothing to do with the stadium, everything to do with strategic leadership AKA Mr Lowe/Mr Wilde. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 23 August, 2009 Share Posted 23 August, 2009 Teams in this division are coming to St Marys and thinking that this is a really big game for them. I was speaking to 2 Brentford fans before the game and they said that this was like a big cup game for them and they were looking forward to playing a really big team like Southampton. This can be a problem because teams are going to really riase their game when they play us as they all want to beat the big teams as in Burnley - Man U. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wimbornesaint Posted 23 August, 2009 Share Posted 23 August, 2009 Teams in this division are coming to St Marys and thinking that this is a really big game for them. I was speaking to 2 Brentford fans before the game and they said that this was like a big cup game for them and they were looking forward to playing a really big team like Southampton. This can be a problem because teams are going to really riase their game when they play us as they all want to beat the big teams as in Burnley - Man U. Didn't seem to happen at Leicester last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_bert Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 (edited) After having a billy wiz gainst a wall in what Swindon called a toilet, rest assured I thanked my lucky stars for St Marys Saturday Edited 24 August, 2009 by saint_bert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 A Brentford fan and a friend of mine said yesterday after the match he thought St Marys to be an intimidating place. Of course and that's correct, Duncan, First time I stepped inside SMS, I was overwhelmed - and I was a home fan. However, with so many youngsters playing nowadays, SMS seems to have been deifed as a temple, instead of seeing it as a football pitch that two teams will play on. I recall numerous OS items that said .." the youth team / Reserves will play their match at SMS to give some extra atmosphere "... etc, etc, whereas most other clubs play such " boys matches " on a nearby cow patch, or local league ground that resembles a ploughed field. Playing to a crowd of a thousand or so ( even your own fans) in a near- empty SMS is equally provoking, and that may take away some of the home advantage, especially when 15000+ fans are screaming for a goal. I don't think the stadium is at fault, but the mentality of some of the inexperienced youngsters we've asked to play there in recent years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 I know the blame for our demise lies at the feet of many people who have had connections with Saints in many different roles from Directors/Chairmen, to Players and Managers, but has St. Mary's got anything to do with it? Are the players scared or overwhelmed by the size etc of it? Or is the emptyness of it a real downer on our players and a motivator for opposition players? Over the past 2 seasons, and the 2 home games this season our home record stands at this: Played 48 Won 13 Drawn 17 Lost 18 Scored 51 Conceded 58 Goal Difference -7 I'm not suggesting for a second that we up-sticks and build a new ground, but this is a problem as whatever league you play in, you MUST win you're home games. What does everyone else think about this? It's not the ground it's the spoilt, impatient and unrealistic fans who no longer fill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 Nothing to do with the stadium, everything to do with strategic leadership AKA Mr Lowe/Mr Wilde. The same strategic leadership that made it a fortress at times - see TDD's post above. I agree though Wilde ruined it by showing all the attributes of the worse kind of plastic fan not to mention those who indulged him and afforded him the opportunity. Get over Lowe, Robbie your consistent harping on about him suggests to me you are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome or you are simply a tad immature but probably not for your age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 I miss The Dell Ah yes, all those narrow seats, not being able to get anything to eat and those long queues at half time to get to the toilet. Those were the days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 Interesting to see that Tottenham have insisted that the design of their new stadium incorporates seats that are as close as possible to the touchline. No doubt they had the Emirates in mind, which has about as much atmosphere as Barnet public library on a Tuesday morning. But if there's anything above all to miss about the Dell, it's the idea of striking fear into opposing players from extreme close range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 It's not the ground it's the spoilt, impatient and unrealistic fans who no longer fill it. Ah, so it's the fans fault. It's not the fault of the players, or the managers, as Derry suggests, who do not play with any width, or who use players out of position. It isn't that most of the other teams we play up their game or have better players who exploit our weaknesses. It isn't that we have had very poor (in both senses) owners who have not invested properly in the team or its management, causing massive instability because of their inept man-management and their giant egos causing disunity. It's all the fault of the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 we have have missed a trick ever since we have been there.We kick to the Chapel second half, without a doubt we should kick to the northam 2nd half.We have tried the old way and we can see the results.Letstry kicking the other way 2nd half and see if that changes things. The away fans in the 2nd half lift their teams and adds that little extra.It may be mininmal but could be enough to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 Didn't seem to happen at Leicester last season? They had a full, uninterrupted pre-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 we have have missed a trick ever since we have been there.We kick to the Chapel second half, without a doubt we should kick to the northam 2nd half.We have tried the old way and we can see the results.Letstry kicking the other way 2nd half and see if that changes things. The away fans in the 2nd half lift their teams and adds that little extra.It may be mininmal but could be enough to help. I agree fully and have been saying this for several years. WTF do we not actually try it for once!!! I'm sure that KD only chooses to kick that way to ensure he gets his usual reception from the Northam when he comes out for the second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 I agree fully and have been saying this for several years. WTF do we not actually try it for once!!! I'm sure that KD only chooses to kick that way to ensure he gets his usual reception from the Northam when he comes out for the second half. i have started thread on it and you get the chapel fans saying it makes no difference.Well it may not do, but 1 thing is for certain we have tried the other way and that has failed. i notice the away teams lift themselves kicking to their fans (could be that we are rubbish and unfit of course) I go back to the days of the Kop Stretford even the Milton and the teams always kicked to thier fans second half as you dont win anything forst half.You may get a lead but you dont finish off the game.Very important bit of detail IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 They had a full, uninterrupted pre-season. Got to love that ever flowing fountain of excuses. When was the last time Brentford had a million pound goalie, a million pound centre back, a couple of million pound midfielders, two million pound strikers in their team? How could we even dream of beating such giants with our boo-hoo pre season. We don't stand a chance Southampton Football Club. More hard done by than any other club in Britain. Ever. Never, ever, ever expect anything other than a defeat, and anyway we have more excuses that a amnesiac schoolboy with a very hungry dog addicted to excersize books at home. PS - St Mary's is not part of the problem. It's one of our greatest assets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 Got to love that ever flowing fountain of excuses. When was the last time Brentford had a million pound goalie, a million pound centre back, a couple of million pound midfielders, two million pound strikers in their team? How could we even dream of beating such giants with our boo-hoo pre season. We don't stand a chance Southampton Football Club. More hard done by than any other club in Britain. Ever. Never, ever, ever expect anything other than a defeat, and anyway we have more excuses that a amnesiac schoolboy with a very hungry dog addicted to excersize books at home. PS - St Mary's is not part of the problem. It's one of our greatest assets. We had two weeks to prepare before the league games started. What's hard to understand about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 We had two weeks to prepare before the league games started. What's hard to understand about that? so the players were all sat around doing nothing until pardew arrived..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 so the players were all sat around doing nothing until pardew arrived..? Of course not. But they might not have been doing what Pardew wanted. You cannot dismiss the importance of having a proper pre-season after, a few years ago, slating Burley for waiting until the end of the transfer window to get a CB in, saying "he will not fit in in time now". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 Of course not. But they might not have been doing what Pardew wanted. You cannot dismiss the importance of having a proper pre-season after, a few years ago, slating Burley for waiting until the end of the transfer window to get a CB in, saying "he will not fit in in time now". indeed.... i wonder how norwich are going to do after all their disruptions, new manager and loads of new players.. I agree to an extent but IMO (got to get that in) we should be doing better or at least won a game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 so the players were all sat around doing nothing until pardew arrived..? I think what is being said, is that we are signing players as we are going along and they have had very few training sessions let alone matches to get to know each others games etc. This was certainly very apparent in the first half Saturday, where players were bunching, not seeing players in space and everything was just disjointed. It did get better as the game went on and will get better still when the new players have bedded in and everyone gets to know their roll in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Division South Days Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 How much training actually takes place at SMS? Perhaps if the team spent more time in the stadium it may help get rid of any hangups. Not too concerned about pitch wear other stadiums alternate with rugby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 indeed.... i wonder how norwich are going to do after all their disruptions, new manager and loads of new players.. I agree to an extent but IMO (got to get that in) we should be doing better or at least won a game... Don't worry, Thedelldays; we'll do better now that we've got two of the giants of the division, Swindon and Brentford out of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 How much training actually takes place at SMS? Perhaps if the team spent more time in the stadium it may help get rid of any hangups. Not too concerned about pitch wear other stadiums alternate with rugby. Thats one of the first things that WGS did and continued to do every Friday morning before a home game. I also say get the White Witch back to do her stuff, her last bit of magic must have worn off by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaroid Saint Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 YES. From day one. The Primary Reason I no longer go. SMS has a horrible AtmosFear (see what I did there). 'Tis Ruled by The Yoof and The Stewarts. Hate it. Next question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesaint Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 No, and to be fair we now have a long-term future which StMarys has provided. Supporters make a ground, and it was not a bad ground when opened in fact we had a good home record, but any manager needs support to be successfull. Look at Newcastle and there support, its great BUT the club will always need to invest on players. StMarys is saints home now and although I loved the Dell, St Marys was needed. COYS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 I agree fully and have been saying this for several years. WTF do we not actually try it for once!!! I'm sure that KD only chooses to kick that way to ensure he gets his usual reception from the Northam when he comes out for the second half. I have always felt that when we kick to the Northam second half we invariably lose. At this point Um Pahars will start preparing statistics to prove me wrong as he always does on all my posts. If we haven't heard anything in the next 24 hours we can assume my gut feeling is correct and we should continue to play as we do kicking to the Northam in the first half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 Well...no. Yes teams raise their game coming to SMS, well like a day out in the Prem for their fans as well. Our problem is the players - simples. We have 'talented' youngsters who were 'bigged-up' by a clueless to$$er to the extent they thought they were world beaters..unfortunately they were found out to be panel beaters (apologies to all qualified panel beaters out there for comparisons with Lallana). Until we drop the wasters we won't progress. As for Saga and Rasiak - they are under LEGAL contract to play for this club. So let's play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 I have always felt that when we kick to the Northam second half we invariably lose. At this point Um Pahars will start preparing statistics to prove me wrong as he always does on all my posts. If we haven't heard anything in the next 24 hours we can assume my gut feeling is correct and we should continue to play as we do kicking to the Northam in the first half. I think we've only done it a handful of times (certainly since the Prem days) and then pretty much only when we've lost the toss. Since our win percentage in CCC and L1 is nothing short of woeful, I would suggest that we have lost a damn site more kicking towards the Northam first-half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 I have always felt that when we kick to the Northam second half we invariably lose. At this point Um Pahars will start preparing statistics to prove me wrong as he always does on all my posts. If we haven't heard anything in the next 24 hours we can assume my gut feeling is correct and we should continue to play as we do kicking to the Northam in the first half. well NC I disagree I havent any stats but i do know we have predominently kicked to the Northam 1st half. If you look at laws of probability we may have lost the toss 50% of the time.Therefore it is fair to assume IMO that the opposition are more than happy to kick to their supporters 2nd half. Considering we have lost more than we have won at home (5 differnece i think) then perhaps we cant lose much by changing things. I think to the nightmare games in the last few seasons Leeds, Villa , Boro ,Everton, Man u (P league last game) and capitulation then all those we kicked to the Northam 1st half. It may mean nothing but why not see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 I know the blame for our demise lies at the feet of many people who have had connections with Saints in many different roles from Directors/Chairmen, to Players and Managers, but has St. Mary's got anything to do with it? Are the players scared or overwhelmed by the size etc of it? Or is the emptyness of it a real downer on our players and a motivator for opposition players? Over the past 2 seasons, and the 2 home games this season our home record stands at this: Played 48 Won 13 Drawn 17 Lost 18 Scored 51 Conceded 58 Goal Difference -7 I'm not suggesting for a second that we up-sticks and build a new ground, but this is a problem as whatever league you play in, you MUST win you're home games. What does everyone else think about this? I have always contended that the 'off-the-shelf' design of St Mary's has been a problem because the stadium needs a full house to stoke up the atmosphere (and intimidation to visitors) that we had at The Dell and that other grounds have, which is worth a few points - and certainly kept us in the top division for more than a few seasons when we were at The Dell. Our home results then were formidable. True, we had some good seasons and wins at St Mary's in The Prem, but they were not the norm. If we can't bring the seats closer to the pitch another solution could be to install sound reflectors in the roof. (Every little helps.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 I have always contended that the 'off-the-shelf' design of St Mary's has been a problem because the stadium needs a full house to stoke up the atmosphere (and intimidation to visitors) that we had at The Dell and that other grounds have, which is worth a few points - and certainly kept us in the top division for more than a few seasons when we were at The Dell. Our home results then were formidable. True, we had some good seasons and wins at St Mary's in The Prem, but they were not the norm. If we can't bring the seats closer to the pitch another solution could be to install sound reflectors in the roof. (Every little helps.) at the Dell we had during most spells areas where the fans who sung congregated.That was not applied when we moved to SMS and we dont really have a proper end. The Northam singing gets polluted by the away fans next to them, and the itchen cant hear the Northam a lot of the time due to the away fans being closer. The chapel should have been made our Kop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 LOL at people clutching at straws and blaming the ground... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 24 August, 2009 Share Posted 24 August, 2009 Of course not. But they might not have been doing what Pardew wanted. You cannot dismiss the importance of having a proper pre-season after, a few years ago, slating Burley for waiting until the end of the transfer window to get a CB in, saying "he will not fit in in time now". This would be the same George Burley who effectively had the longest pre season in history (from the minute he took over from Saggy at the end of January) and then another full pre season the following season....which got us nowhere. But I am sure there is another boo-hoo excuse to write all that off under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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