Crossing the ball

[trousers]

It's a theme that crops up on here time and time again..."if only we had someone who could put a decent cross in the box"

 

I may be missing something here but isn't kicking a football into the air one of the first things one gets taught at "soccer school"?

 

If I'd have known that I could be

picked to play for Southampton football club without this fundamental 'skill' I wouldn't have chucked in football for pies at such a tender age.

 

Strewth.

Edited 14 September, 2009 by trousers

[Dimond Geezer]

What infuriates me the most is a player not getting to the by-line and crossing from 18-20 yards out. When I did footy, in the dim & distant past, the wingers were encouraged to get to the by-line & pull the ball back with pace so the centre-forward (who was invariably at the back post area) could deliver a bullet-like header into the bottom corner away from the keeper. If you cross fromt he edge of the penalty area, the centre-forward needs to add power and direction.

[trousers]

Are there any stats out there that show the type of assist lambert got per goal he scored last season?

[Mao Cap]

Haven't had a decent corner taker in years either.

[rooney]

What infuriates me the most is a player not getting to the by-line and crossing from 18-20 yards out. When I did footy, in the dim & distant past, the wingers were encouraged to get to the by-line & pull the ball back with pace so the centre-forward (who was invariably at the back post area) could deliver a bullet-like header into the bottom corner away from the keeper. If you cross fromt he edge of the penalty area, the centre-forward needs to add power and direction.

 

That is it exactly.Paine & Sydenham used to do this for big Ron.England did it twice the other night.The defence is forced to to come out to get the ball. If we just lob the ball into the goalmouth from outside the penalty area, the CF has his back to the goal and the CH is invariably all over him. Another thing too, cannot the coaches teach our corner takers to put in "whizzers" ala MLT, those lightweight scoops do nothing for our attackers in the box.

[trousers]

Haven't had a decent corner taker in years either.

 

Same sort of skill base I guess. Unless, at Soccer School, they split the group into 2: those who can kick the ball up in the air whilst running and those who can kick a ball up in the air from a stationary position.

[Third Division South Days]

What infuriates me the most is a player not getting to the by-line and crossing from 18-20 yards out. When I did footy, in the dim & distant past, the wingers were encouraged to get to the by-line & pull the ball back with pace so the centre-forward (who was invariably at the back post area) could deliver a bullet-like header into the bottom corner away from the keeper. If you cross fromt he edge of the penalty area, the centre-forward needs to add power and direction.

 

Most own goals are acheived by the balls from the bye-line. You have turned the defence. At least Thomas and Harding are prepared to attempt to get forward and with James playing a more central role those aimless diagonal balls are little less frquent. Mills gets there and I think he just needs confidence/composure to improve the crossing.

[trousers]

Are there any stats out there that show the type of assist lambert got per goal he scored last season?

 

Ok, best I could come up with is who supplied the most assists for Lambert, rather than 'how'. Perhaps we can deduce from the player and their playing position whether the assists are more likely to be crosses than through balls....

 

Assists for Ricky Lambert Goals (08/09)

 

Stuart Campbell (attacking midfielder): 5

Craig Disley (attacking midfielder): 4

David Pipe (midfield/right wing): 2

Jeff Hughes (midfield/left wing): 2

Daryl Duffy (striker): 2

Jo Kuffour (striker): 2

 

http://www.statbunker.com/football/btb/index.php?PL=competition&CompID=247&statType=assist&page=1

[forever a red and white]

more irritating is we do have someone of that ilk, LEE HOLMES

[J Bizzle]

it's not difficult to cross a ball, just get to the by line and drill it in.

[shurlock]

Still worth remembering that most of our goals this season have come from open play crosses (Northampton, Brentford, Charlton) or set-piece ones (Huddersfield, Stockport resulting in a pen).

 

Perhaps, this just means this is an area we should be hurting people but aren't capitalising on; alternatively, it might mean we are in fact improving. Personally, I have less of a problem with our corners than our tendency to loft balls in from deep, normally harmless positions. With Lambert who's been getting flick-ons to most things, its always a temptation. But its too much of a get-out.

[saint_stevo]

As a dead ball specialist, corners are an art. You can chip it in and hope for the best, but i always aimed for the back post from the left, and for the penalty spot from the right. Really not that difficult. Needs to be put in with pace IMO

[Channon's Sideburns]

Still worth remembering that most of our goals this season have come from open play crosses (Northampton, Brentford, Charlton) or set-piece ones (Huddersfield, Stockport resulting in a pen).

 

Perhaps, this just means this is an area we should be hurting people but aren't capitalising on; alternatively, it might mean we are in fact improving. Personally, I have less of a problem with our corners than our tendency to loft balls in from deep, normally harmless positions. With Lambert who's been getting flick-ons to most things, its always a temptation. But its too much of a get-out.

 

I happen to think that corners are very important - not only do we finally have the height to pick up goals from them, but when we commit defenders to attack the corners, it risks a counter-attack if we can't deliver them to the right players...e.g the ones in red and white stripes.

[Micky]

It's a theme that crops up on here time and time again..."if only we had someone who could put a decent cross in the box"

 

I may be missing something here but isn't kicking a football into the air one of the first things one gets taught at "soccer school"?

 

If I'd have known that I could be

picked to play for Southampton football club without this fundamental 'skill' I wouldn't have chucked in football for pies at such a tender age.

 

Strewth.

 

Ahhh but perhaps you have missed the real problem. The only reason that we don't put decent balls into the box is because we never get it wide, we play with no width, we are always too narrow - hence we are never in a position to put balls into the box.

 

No width, not wide enough, same every game - ask Derry, he'll tell ya...!

 

As for corners - well, we are just crap at corners. Last player I remember scoring from a corner, probably Ken Monkou..!

[shurlock]

I happen to think that corners are very important - not only do we finally have the height to pick up goals from them' date=' but when we commit defenders to attack the corners, it risks a counter-attack if we can't deliver them to the right players...e.g the ones in red and white stripes.[/quote']

 

True - they're probably more important with the likes of Jaidi and Trotman available; but I think our delivery from corners has generally more threatening (think Stockport or Brentford) than our crossing. Not hard to think why- there's less of an art involved with corners since you dont need to worry about beating/getting a yard on your man etc.

[SoccerMom]

more irritating is we do have someone of that ilk, LEE HOLMES

 

 

Oh, the confusion of 08/09 - in some of the clips, he's clearly playing on the right. :confused:

 

But, getting to the byline, anyone? Please let Pards play him...

[Saint Fan CaM]

The stats on Lamberts goal assists are interesting as they appear to mostly come from central midfielders suggesting that he likes the ball played to his feet rather than from aerial crosses. What that means to me is that Hammond and Schneiderlin/Lallana are probably our best CM pair options (at the moment).

 

Also, Lallana is not really a winger, so why play him there? I would have him at starting at CM alongside Hammond. Get Papa and Mills or Papa and Holmes on the wings for pace.

[trousers]

As for corners - well, we are just crap at corners. Last player I remember scoring from a corner, probably Ken Monkou..!

 

Hmm, good trivia question....who indeed was the last Saints player to score directly from the incoming ball from a corner? (i.e. not the ball going in without tocuhing anyone else, but the first header or shot from the corner)

 

Sods law, it'll probably be more recent than one imagines....

[RedAndWhite91]

I had a dream in which Saints played Yeovil (And I was playing for Saints for some reason) in some crappy field you are likely to see at an under 15's Sunday match... Saints could not cross the ball for toffee and we ended up losing 1-0. Thankfully none of my dreams have come true before, but it is odd to wake up and see a post about crossing the ball after that nightmare I had last night.

[Ponty]

Hmm, good trivia question....who indeed was the last Saints player to score directly from the incoming ball from a corner? (i.e. not the ball going in without tocuhing anyone else, but the first header or shot from the corner)

 

Sods law, it'll probably be more recent than one imagines....

 

Didn't one drop on Chris Perry's head last year? My brain might just be making that up though.

[RedAndWhite91]

Didn't one drop on Chris Perry's head last year? My brain might just be making that up though.

 

Against Birmingham when we lost 2-1 just before we done them in the Carling Cup last year. This is from a match report:

 

"Lee Holmes delivered a perfect cross into the six-yard box and Chris Perry reacted first to stoop and head home."

[Blandford saint]

Crossing has to be THE most frustrating part of Saints' play, and answers the other question of why we are not scoring more goals. Even when we have the chance to get to the by-line (there is no player marking the space in front of the attacker), we STILL opt to cross from deep rather than carry the ball on. If you look at prolific teams like Man U, you see it all the time. Ryan Giggs has been getting to the by-line, crossing the ball back into the box so that the attacker cannot be off-side, for nearly 20 years. Why do our players and coaches not think that it is worth emulating the most successful team in the country?

I know it doesn't always come off, but we don't attempt it nearly often enough. Beatts scored a good percentage of his goals from fizzed in corners and low balls into the box, but we have definitely lost the art since our departure from the Premier League.

[saintsdan]

Hmm, good trivia question....who indeed was the last Saints player to score directly from the incoming ball from a corner? (i.e. not the ball going in without tocuhing anyone else, but the first header or shot from the corner)

 

Sods law, it'll probably be more recent than one imagines....

 

Was Rickie Lambert's goal against Huddersfield not a header directly from the corner?

[shurlock]

Was Rickie Lambert's goal against Huddersfield not a header directly from the corner?

 

Yep as sweet as they come (BTW trotman then missed a free header under the bar against Brentford. And we twice hit the crossbar from corners against Stockport).

Edited 14 September, 2009 by shurlock

[Thripp87]

What annoys me about our crossing is the lack of speed on them. Against Colchester I lost count of the amount of crosses that went in to the box in decent areas but just looped into the air.

 

These are so simple for defenders to defend an ery difficult for strikers to score as they would require neck muscles beyond belief. You want a cross to whipped in with pace so a striker literally just has to get his head on the ball for it to cause trouble.

[The9]

Are there any stats out there that show the type of assist lambert got per goal he scored last season?

 

Having seen his positioning on his debut for Saints I'd be pretty sure he scored a shedload of far post headers by arriving late and outjumping the full back, as every time we got the ball out wide he pulled behind the far defender and came back in. I suppose they could have come from his feet off low crosses too though.

 

As for this "can't cross" thing, the ball needs to go in with pace AND preferably a bit of topspin/bend to stop it being easy to read and defend - and its that bit which makes for lots of shanked and mis-hit crosses - trying to do it well, rather than just dinking in easy to clear balls.

 

Actually, as long as Lallana knows Thomas is going to mis-hit it short and reads it and scores, it doesn't matter though !

 

FWIW, Lallana's floated corner that Lambert headed in at Huddersfield was rubbish as well, slow ball in that drifted and was easy to read, Huddersfield should have cleared it, but it just happened to land on our target man's head 6 yards out and he put all the power into the header as there wasn't much momentum on the ball - so I guess if Lambert can head like that and is attacking wide rather than flicking near post, we can just dolly them in to him until we get more accurate.

Edited 14 September, 2009 by The9

[SFKA South Woodford]

The other thing that is so frustrating about our crossing is that no one ever wips it in low around the back of the defence. Defenders hate having to deal with the ball when they are facing their own goal, which results in the occasional own goal, when was the last time the opposition scored an own goal against Saints?

 

Now we have Waigo, we should be utilising his pace and getting some low crosses in behind the oppo defence, with him getting in amongst the defenders, we just might start scoring more than one goal a game!

[RonManager]

Watching the Everton game - now that's how to take a corner!!!!!!!!

[RonManager]

And again - chaos in the box.

[positivepete]

The FA stats now say that more goals are scored by crossing the ball in from deep than from crossing from the byeline. The key either way is to get the ball in the the attackers target area and that should be between the defender and the goalkeeper. Think why Beckham is more effective than others for England on the right hand side. James hit some superb crosses like this last year, we just had no one attacking them.

[oxfordshire_saint]

James hit some superb crosses like this last year, we just had no one attacking them.

 

Indeed, the only one I can remember is his cross for BWP to head us infront at the Madejski

[Third Division South Days]

Another advantage of getting to the bye-line is that a lot more corners are won which keeps the defence under pressure.

[Saint Fan CaM]

I wonder whether some of the problem is the inconsistency of approach too.

 

What I mean by this is that it seems that either not enough attacking players are actually in a position to score (i.e. too slow) OR too many attacking players have run too far and see the ball zip behind or over them.

 

I take this to mean that the attacking players don't know what to expect. Lallana's quote last week about his goal was very interesting and related to this. He said he KNEW where and how Thomas was going to cross the ball (lol - albeit he was intimating he would fluff the cross!).

[Whitey Grandad]

James hit some superb crosses like this last year, we just had no one attacking them.

But they were comfortably headed away by the defenders or caught by the goalkeeper!

[West End Saint]

I agree this is a area that we need to work on I dont rate Lallana for corners no pace on ball often cut out by the Keeper genrally poor.

 

We dont get into the right position to cross the ball & when we do the timing & or direction not good enough.

 

I think James is our best crosser of the ball it was his cross set up Lamberts 1st goal he should take corners & play wide right for me.

 

No doubt AP is aware of our problems & we will see some improvement

[david in sweden]

It's a theme that crops up on here time and time again..."if only we had someone who could put a decent cross in the box"

 

I may be missing something here but isn't kicking a football into the air one of the first things one gets taught at "soccer school"?

If I'd have known that I could be picked to play for Southampton football club without this fundamental 'skill' I wouldn't have chucked in football for pies at such a tender age.

Strewth.

 

 

How many time have I heard ..

" No-one has ever been able to cut a ball back properly from the by-line since Terry Paine left the club . " (1974 btw)

A lot of truth in that, but to be a bit fair to those who have tried...(1) Terry was a genius at putting over crosses - ask anyone who was fortunate enough to have seen him play. (2) it does depend on who's on the receiving end when the ball gets into the six yard box. Lots of " so-called strikers " want it on their correct foot, or at a perfect head height.

 

Ron Davies (there I go with legendary names again) scored lots of his goals from crosses into the box from Paine (and John Sydenham), but Ron knew he had to work for it ...and knew where to meet the ball when it came.

 

Too many players today either won't run for it, or simply lack the positional sense when it comes to meeting the cross / centre when it arrives. But in essence you are correct, but it's not always the kickers' fault either !¨

[Saint_clark]

 

Oh, the confusion of 08/09 - in some of the clips, he's clearly playing on the right. :confused:

 

But, getting to the byline, anyone? Please let Pards play him...

 

The same bloke who made that vid managed to make Molyneux look like a world class LB as well though

[SoccerMom]

The same bloke who made that vid managed to make Molyneux look like a world class LB as well though

 

:D:D:D

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Against Birmingham when we lost 2-1 just before we done them in the Carling Cup last year. This is from a match report:

 

"Lee Holmes delivered a perfect cross into the six-yard box and Chris Perry reacted first to stoop and head home."

 

Not sure that having to stoop to head it makes it a perfect cross....

Perfect cross for having your head kicked off, maybe.

[SoccerMom]

Not sure that having to stoop to head it makes it a perfect cross....

Perfect cross for having your head kicked off, maybe.

 

Aw, c'mon, Perry doesn't have to stoop!

[derry]

How many time have I heard ..

" No-one has ever been able to cut a ball back properly from the by-line since Terry Paine left the club . " (1974 btw)

A lot of truth in that, but to be a bit fair to those who have tried...(1) Terry was a genius at putting over crosses - ask anyone who was fortunate enough to have seen him play. (2) it does depend on who's on the receiving end when the ball gets into the six yard box. Lots of " so-called strikers " want it on their correct foot, or at a perfect head height.

 

Ron Davies (there I go with legendary names again) scored lots of his goals from crosses into the box from Paine (and John Sydenham), but Ron knew he had to work for it ...and knew where to meet the ball when it came.

 

Too many players today either won't run for it, or simply lack the positional sense when it comes to meeting the cross / centre when it arrives. But in essence you are correct, but it's not always the kickers' fault either !¨

 

 

Terry Paine was the best crosser of a ball I have ever seen. Terry Paine used to hang the ball up for Ron Davies. I don't ever remember him hitting in crosses. John Sydenham on the other hand did but they weren't as effective. It is a popular myth that crosses have to be hit in with pace.

 

Top headers of the ball attacking the back of the box prefer a ball that is hung up about 15ft reaching it's peak just goalside of the penalty spot and dropping fairly sharply towards head height. The defenders are taken out of the equation and the goalkeeper can't get near the ball.

 

The best headers of the ball don't stand under the flight in the area but run in from outside the area. Something we don't do. I have a feeling that Jaidi well might.

 

Whipping in crosses gives the defenders a better chance to get them away it is only superb glancers of the ball that can benefit from the pace. It also means that overhit crosses are out of play the other side and underhit won't clear the first defender. How often do we do that.

[Clifford Nelson]

Everyone can't cross a ball. I should know, because I could. It was the only thing I could do with a little bit of success apart from being quite quick. On the other hand I didn't have any tricks or any subtlety. Without the crossing ability I would have had to give up the game before I got into my teens. The amount of players I've played with who I have envied every move they ever made. But they couldn't cross the ball!

 

My hometown team used to have three conditions for signing a player or taking on a youngster: Technique, pace and character. I used to coach boys, and those traits you can spot without too much difficulty.

 

Saints academy has signed youngsters failing in more than one department, and don't seem to ever have signed anybody with crossing ability. (Coming to think of one or two of recent youngsters I think they might be failing in two departments.) This is telling us a lot about how badly run it has been. This will have to be remedied to make it useful for the club. Until then we have to mend and make do with the best signings we can get. Mind you, there is possibly Fish and Holmes on the left already in the club.

[Red And White Barmy Army]

Appologies if already posted here but it would seem they are working on crossing with Wally Downes - if u've subscribed to saints player then u can see it in the background of the interview with Pardew or Chris Perry (can't remember which 1) at Staplewood.

 

Normal small sided game in the middle which becomes unopposed if they take it into or receive it in the channels. pretty basic coaching drill which i have implemented myself many times, but effective at encouraging crossing from varying positions nevertheless.

[trousers]

Soooo.....any improvement then....?

[hughieslastminutegoal]

 

Saints academy has signed youngsters failing in more than one department, and don't seem to ever have signed anybody with crossing ability. (Coming to think of one or two of recent youngsters I think they might be failing in two departments.) This is telling us a lot about how badly run it has been. This will have to be remedied to make it useful for the club.

 

Hooray, at last. someone who sees our great academy for what it really is (and has been for ages).

[Red And White Barmy Army]

o god ^^ do the names theo walcott, gareth bale, chris baird, drew surman etc etc etc etc etc (just recently) mean nothing to you?!?!?! it might not be one of the best in the world anymore and capable of producing that sort of standard of player, but that's understandable when u consider a) that we're now in league 1 and b) that pompey, chelsea, even man utd and arsenal are starting to move into our territory and poach players from our catchment area before we even know they exist. our scouting network just isn't, or hasn't been big enough, for too long now and we're starting to feel the side effects of that now we've been out of the prem for 4+ years. 1 attribute of crossing the ball does not define our academy by any stretch of the imagination. our academy can only work with what it's got. and yes, obviously the standard of coaching will have declined since our prem days - be in from george prost's retirment to other coaches wanting to work for a prem team again with job security that they didn't have until 2 months ago.

 

if u take a current playing crop of our former academy and pit them against other players from their original clubs u will probs have a midtable premiership team imo, which is exactly what we are.

[Dalek2003]

We need more movement off the ball and in the penalty area,

This creates confusion with the defenders and creates space for later players attacking that area.

I'll say it again, movement off the ball is what we are lacking. We are too predictable.

[The boy done well]

Hooray, at last. someone who sees our great academy for what it really is (and has been for ages).

 

Just been watching Jake Thomson on Eurosport playing for T & T under 20's against Italy in Egypt. Never even attempts to get down the line. Just stops half way inside the opposition half and sends in pretty poor diagonal crosses which no-one gets anywhere near...which is rather what he does for us when he plays. Even Brian Hamilton who was assisting the commentator made a remark to the effect that his crossing was poor. Must be something to do with the coaching or perhaps, and more probably, we're a bit short of quality in the Academy nowadays.