St Landrew Posted 1 December, 2009 Share Posted 1 December, 2009 He keeps on being caught offside. The Wycombe game was no exception, so I read. Several times he was offside. I keep seeing people going on about how much a waste of space he is, but I see a super-fast and pretty skillful striker who knows the offside law perfectly well, but keeps getting caught because he is too bloody fast for the linesman and referee. I have personally seen Papa twice this season, and most of his offsides were so bloody marginal, they'd be allowed in the Premiership, where benefit of the doubt seems to be given to the striker most of the time, unlike this league. Is he just too fast for this league and the team at the moment..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 1 December, 2009 Share Posted 1 December, 2009 Tbh he was never going to live up to the hype that was set by the club and the people on this forum. I don't think it will work out - Send him back and use the wages for someone else in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribbo Posted 1 December, 2009 Share Posted 1 December, 2009 he was wrongfully ruled offside at least 3 times in the second half, he played well tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronskisaint Posted 1 December, 2009 Share Posted 1 December, 2009 For all the offsides we looked more likely to score when he was on - frustrating player, a mix of magic & inept but provided us with a new chant to the BWP tune! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchards Posted 1 December, 2009 Share Posted 1 December, 2009 Its a tactic to give the team a breather perhaps? Seriously I watched him at Northampton and he plays the system well, finds the space does his tricks and maybe a decent cross, if not then he cuts it back to Murty. Its the rest of his footy thats pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 1 December, 2009 Share Posted 1 December, 2009 he was wrongfully ruled offside at least 3 times in the second half, he played well tonight. this is what i have just been told.....with a bit of luck and a few decent lino's he could be ideal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 1 December, 2009 Share Posted 1 December, 2009 He makes things happen and has had his hand in many goals this season IMO, he frustrates and scares defenders. Yes the offsides are bloody annoying but i have faith he will sort them. Not just that but he is obviously in attacking positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NN2 Saint Posted 1 December, 2009 Share Posted 1 December, 2009 Don't rate him or Antonio at all both useless imo. Would prefer to see Mellis being given a go in that position I reckon he could do a job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintsforlife7 Posted 1 December, 2009 Share Posted 1 December, 2009 Was offside 8 times this evening! But he did assist the goal that got us 3 points so what's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 1 December, 2009 Share Posted 1 December, 2009 For all his offside, he did set up the goal, which is more than you could say for Lallana tonight*. I'd be inclined to give him another chance. *This is not a dig at Lallana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Will Posted 1 December, 2009 Share Posted 1 December, 2009 I actually don't think it's entirely his fault. I think he thinks quicker than a lot of our players. We get the ball in midfield and defence and pass it sideways out to the wings. If, when we picked the ball up in the middle of the park, played the ball quickly and straight over the top, he would have been onside and clear in on goal. I was watching him making runs, and the ball wasn't played to him early enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millbrook Saint Posted 1 December, 2009 Share Posted 1 December, 2009 Thought he would have won man of the match today if he carried on in the second half like he did in the first. The mongs around me abusing him should take a look at how bad we were once he went off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 1 December, 2009 Share Posted 1 December, 2009 made the goal often won possession back offsides are frustrating but he does push the limit he is bloody quick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 1 December, 2009 Share Posted 1 December, 2009 Don't think he's offside half as much as is given against him. However, I don't think he's very good technically - that miss was shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 1 December, 2009 Share Posted 1 December, 2009 Every time he plays we never lose. His goal scoring record has been good, he alson has made 2 goals in 2 games! I think he is worth perservering with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block 5 Posted 1 December, 2009 Share Posted 1 December, 2009 Can AP get the best out of him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedFear Posted 1 December, 2009 Share Posted 1 December, 2009 Don't rate him or Antonio at all both useless imo. Would prefer to see Mellis being given a go in that position I reckon he could do a job well im glad your not in charge of the team. antonio has been playing pro football for what..1 year?? and he is only 19 FFS!! he has the potential to be a very good player and as others have said a lot of papa's offsides are fairly marginal. he only needs the benefit of the doubt once or twice in a game and it could be what wins it. he was also very unselfish laying the ball on for lambert today mellis has been average most times ive seen him. but decent to have in the squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 He keeps on being caught offside. The Wycombe game was no exception, so I read. Several times he was offside. I keep seeing people going on about how much a waste of space he is, but I see a super-fast and pretty skillful striker who knows the offside law perfectly well, but keeps getting caught because he is too bloody fast for the linesman and referee. I have personally seen Papa twice this season, and most of his offsides were so bloody marginal, they'd be allowed in the Premiership, where benefit of the doubt seems to be given to the striker most of the time, unlike this league. Is he just too fast for this league and the team at the moment..? Completely agree - that guy worked his socks off tonight for the team in defence and attack. There were at least two wrong offside decisions given this evening for definite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Codger Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 I was in a great position to see his offsides in the second half and the lino was spot on in every one of them. You say Waigo 'knows the offide law perfectly well'. I disagree. All the evidence so far this season shows he does not understand the offside law. I'd love to say otherwise and I'm sure there are some who will say he's a professional and of course he knows the law. All the evidence says otherwise. Having said that, as has been pointed out in earlier replies, he set up the goal and in the first half he chased down two apparent lost causes and won two corners. Good for him. As for curing the offsides, AP should hire a top quality referee who is a native speaker of Waigo's mother tongue (French?) and have him explain the law to him together with tactics and techniques to avoid being caught out. The problem has gone on for too long for it to be ignored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 I was in a great position to see his offsides in the second half and the lino was spot on in every one of them. You say Waigo 'knows the offide law perfectly well'. I disagree. All the evidence so far this season shows he does not understand the offside law. I'd love to say otherwise and I'm sure there are some who will say he's a professional and of course he knows the law. All the evidence says otherwise. Having said that, as has been pointed out in earlier replies, he set up the goal and in the first half he chased down two apparent lost causes and won two corners. Good for him. As for curing the offsides, AP should hire a top quality referee who is a native speaker of Waigo's mother tongue (French?) and have him explain the law to him together with tactics and techniques to avoid being caught out. The problem has gone on for too long for it to be ignored Yes OK, he was caught offside, but you do not mention the 3-4 times I saw him run along the line to get into a channel and stay on-side. The main reason he goes offside is because whoever has the ball leaves it too late to place a through ball to him. It is not always his fault and we need a player like him to mix up the play. He worked the defence as much if not more than Lambert did this evening IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al de Man Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 I thought he was brilliant tonight. Well worth his standing ovation. He made far more tackles than a forward has the right to. Harassed defenders to win plenty of throws and corners. And he didn't just get an assist, but put the ball on a silver platter and asked Lambert what condiments he wanted with that goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 You have to take the rough with the smooth with Papa. He will do feck all for 89 minutes, get caught offside countless times, and yet with 1 minute left on the clock, he'll produce a sublime bit of skill that'll win you the game. He's just one of those luxury players and he's very much an unknown quantity. He actually fits into the 4-5-1 system very well. His pace always causes opposing defenders problems, and he has got a decent delivery on him too. Not to mention the fact that he's a useful finisher! The main problem is getting him to perform consistently. Still, Pardew knows what he's doing and in time I'm sure we'll see the best of Papa Waigo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 2 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 2 December, 2009 Yes OK, he was caught offside, but you do not mention the 3-4 times I saw him run along the line to get into a channel and stay on-side. The main reason he goes offside is because whoever has the ball leaves it too late to place a through ball to him. It is not always his fault and we need a player like him to mix up the play. He worked the defence as much if not more than Lambert did this evening IMO. I've seen that too. I reckon he knows the offside rule plenty well, and this evening's match where he was subbed, p!ssed him off a bit. So would I be, if I was doing runs that weren't being noticed in time. It takes effort and skill, and it goes unnoticed. For example, and to hark back a bit - during the WGS era, when he used to play Tessum up front; often Jo would get a lukewarm response, but the runs he used to make to pull defenders this way of that, was nothing short of astonishing. All to nothing, or Beatts might score a goal, and he would get all the credit. Off-ball watching can be really entertaining and gives an insight into what players are really doing when they don't have the ball at their feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 "He's always offside, he's alwayyss offsiiiddeee, Papa Waigo, he's always offside" and "Stay onside, stay onside, stay onside" Waigo showed signs of class tonight, but just needs to stay onside!! As Bailey said, you have to take the rough with the smooth with him, I agree with that. He has good points and his bad points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 Played very well tonight to be honest, was harsh to take him off. Lots of good touches, and he made the goal for lambert to shoot in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 "He's always offside, he's alwayyss offsiiiddeee, Papa Waigo, he's always offside" and "Stay onside, stay onside, stay onside" Waigo showed signs of class tonight, but just needs to stay onside!! As Bailey said, you have to take the rough with the smooth with him, I agree with that. He has good points and his bad points. When we get players who think 2 seconds + quicker than some of the current squad, I think you will be astonished at what Papa will be achieving because he will have team mates providing him with the fast service he craves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 When we get players who think 2 seconds + quicker than some of the current squad, I think you will be astonished at what Papa will be achieving because he will have team mates providing him with the fast service he craves. oH yeah, I do rate Waigo still. His pace and vision are good, but his first touch and decision making are still lacking a bit in my opinion. I do reckon he is a good player though, played well tonight, despite getting given all those offisides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 P.S. Was sat in the nose bleeds in block 41, so couldn't really judge if the offside calls were correct... except one. He was stood a good yard directly behind one of their CBs second half when the ball was played over the top. He made a diagonal run between the CB and LB and up goes the lino's flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanovski Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 Don't rate him or Antonio at all both useless imo. Would prefer to see Mellis being given a go in that position I reckon he could do a job right..papa has had his hand in scoring and setting up a fair few goals, stop saying this just for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerBadger Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 Just needs a bit of tweaking - rather have a player needing restraining than the opposite, but must admit it was a bit comical tonight, Papa yes or Papa no - I say yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 Want him to succeed since he has shown real glimpses of danger and being able to change a game. Just hope that AP perseveres and has more patience than some on here. Lets not forget that the guy is in a totally alien environment and needs time to settle (this was only his second start in a while). Yes he's still a bit over eager -hence the offsides, though nobody complains about the relentless tracking and tackling back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanovski Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 one game he made more tackles at rb position from rw than james did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 I was in a great position to see his offsides in the second half and the lino was spot on in every one of them. You say Waigo 'knows the offide law perfectly well'. I disagree. All the evidence so far this season shows he does not understand the offside law. I'd love to say otherwise and I'm sure there are some who will say he's a professional and of course he knows the law. All the evidence says otherwise. Having said that, as has been pointed out in earlier replies, he set up the goal and in the first half he chased down two apparent lost causes and won two corners. Good for him. I disagree with you here as I was also in a good position to see these decisions and there was at least TWO offsides given where he was clearly onside and had beaten their defenders who were constantly pushing up. I reckon he would of scored one of those chances with only the goalie to beat. Mind you that miss in the first half............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieDog Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 I haven't seen him (TV highlights of Div1 are tough to get here in Aus!) but it sounds as if he is too quick - both of foot and of mind. Maybe either the other players need to trust in his pace and just play that ball a fraction of a second quicker, or AP needs to play him a little deeper so that we're not reliant on either our players being mentally quicker or the linesman being so mentally slow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol_Benji Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 He made far more tackles than a forward has the right to. Harassed defenders to win plenty of throws and corners. And he didn't just get an assist, but put the ball on a silver platter and asked Lambert what condiments he wanted with that goal. Very true. His workrate is excellent, and he always seems to score and get in good goalscoring positions. It was clear Pardew asked him and Antonio (initially) to stay on the heels of the last defender making it more likely than most for them to be caught offside. Furthermore, Antonio was also caught out, and was only less so cos' many times he didnt actually stay 'on the heels' meaning when the ball went through he never got it anyway. Neither would score highly on 'anticipation', but Papa does do what Pardew asks, just maybe, with his pace he can afford to give the defender a foot head start, rather than the millimetre he attempts! It's just frustrating when you see Papa clearly look across the line for about 10 secs, waiting for the through ball, and it's quite clear he is offside for all 10, including when the ball is played to him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocco boxo Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 I am sure he knows the offside rule! It seems his judgement is what needs work on? Papa is going to be one of those players that keeps this board busy. Would love to see him roam Wembley one day soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 P.S. Was sat in the nose bleeds in block 41, so couldn't really judge if the offside calls were correct... except one. He was stood a good yard directly behind one of their CBs second half when the ball was played over the top. He made a diagonal run between the CB and LB and up goes the lino's flag. Like I said recently linesmen simply cannot keep up and a lot of their decisions are based on hunches these days. Most of the time they are never level with play which is the only place to be to make a fair judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 No I raised this point whn I first saw him play and was told by the resident experts on here that it was because he is from playing in Italy and it is a different game over there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 I've not seen him play 'live', so I can't give too much of an in depth post, but I will say that the guy plays for a Serie A team for a reason. He's got talent, he is unpredictable on the ball, gives defenders a run around and tires them out. And although they weren't pretty, his goals earlier this season definitely acted as a bit of a catalyst for the team to put together some good form. Maybe Waigo should start on Saturday, ping around on the right wing, tire out the defenders, and then take him off and put Antonio on about mid way through the second half. My mind still isn't entirely made up about either of them, but I think Waigo has the pedigree (don't forget that Antonio couldn't get a game at struggling Reading, who seem to be playing half their youth team these days). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 A player like Waigo makes it difficult for the defenders. They natually want to push up but with a speed merchant like Waigo on their heels they will feel nervous. It will play on their minds that Waigo likes to make runs and whilst they have got him offside for the most part it only takes one small lapse of concentration at the back for him to be in. It can be frustrating and last night was a bit comical, but it can be a useful tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 Is it just me or has St Landrew stumbled upon the plot for an unpublished Harry Potter book with his Thread Title? Having not seen him play live either, I wonder from our resident experts how they would compare "The Papa Offsides" with the "BWP Offsides". Reading opinion on here it seems that Papa is getting into positions but it is a matter of minute tweaks to the timing of his runs, whereas with BWP it seemed to be that he was just thick? Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesaint Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 He does have some real skill though and not only does he read the game well his vision is really good, I think he is getting better and better. We have to give him time, he played well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Smith Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 Is it just me or has St Landrew stumbled upon the plot for an unpublished Harry Potter book with his Thread Title? Having not seen him play live either, I wonder from our resident experts how they would compare "The Papa Offsides" with the "BWP Offsides". Reading opinion on here it seems that Papa is getting into positions but it is a matter of minute tweaks to the timing of his runs, whereas with BWP it seemed to be that he was just thick? Any thoughts? About spot on I would say. I love to see Waigo on the shoulder of the lasty defender, he scares the cr*p out of them. Last night, the Wycombe defenders were shockingly poor, but, I think you can pt at least some of that down to them being wary of Waigo. He won many tackles on their back 4 last night, and not just their left back either. As for offsides last night, 2 of the off-sides, one in each half, were definately on side, lino was too slow and got confused on one of them. Waigo needed the kick up the butt that Antonio has given him. He is a good player, but switches off after a couple of games. Reminds a lot of Asprilla of Newcastle. Probably not as skillfull, but same mentality and gangly runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ron fan Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 Despite all the offsides and the missed sitter, I thought he was by far our best player last night. Ironically he was substituted just after being wrongly given offside (I was right in line). I agree with some other posters that our midfield often don't see his runs quickly enough and delay releasing the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 his acceleration last night looked faster than I remember seeing - including Theo. Hard to judge but he seemed to have totally different gear to other players -making them look in slow motion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 Despite all the offsides and the missed sitter, I thought he was by far our best player last night. Ironically he was substituted just after being wrongly given offside (I was right in line). I agree with some other posters that our midfield often don't see his runs quickly enough and delay releasing the ball. Good shout. I think that the sort of runs Papa tries to make mean that he's going to get caught offside or be incorrectly ruled offside a lot. It's frustrating to watch but when it comes off we have a good chance of scoring. It was his run that allowed him to set up Lambert's goal, which gave us the win. There was also a move in the first half where he nicked the ball from one of their lot on the edge of our box, played a cross field ball to Harding and was there to have a crack on goal at the end of the move. It looked like he should have done better with his attempt but he had still broken up a Wycombe attack and set us on the counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalls Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 I couldn't agree more mate. I'm sorry but he was by far our best player last night and AP made a hugh mistake taken him of. How anyone could slag him of on that performance is beyond me, he ran his socks off and all our best moves came about because of his efforts. The so called off sides well imo at least 3 were incorrect. The boy is CLASS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torsaint Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 Agree 2 or 3 times he was definitely onside in the second half. My seat is also dead in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggface Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 He makes things happen gets assists and goals. Would like to see him given a run in the team with confidence he could help us kick on despite a few flaws. What do u expect this is league 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 2 December, 2009 Share Posted 2 December, 2009 I actually don't think it's entirely his fault. I think he thinks quicker than a lot of our players. We get the ball in midfield and defence and pass it sideways out to the wings. If, when we picked the ball up in the middle of the park, played the ball quickly and straight over the top, he would have been onside and clear in on goal. I was watching him making runs, and the ball wasn't played to him early enough. Exactly how I saw it aswell. Morgan and Hammond need to play a first time ball more often. Papa was taking up some good positions and making good runs only for the pass to be delayed to long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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