Gemmel Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Sorry to soil the board with this, but last week a group of pimpley fans met up with Richard Scudamore & co from the Premier League. They published the minutes from the meeting and without pasting it all, there was one bit that caught my eye and really ****ed me off. I know this is the premier league and our points deduction was from the FA, but I would have thought the rules for something like this would be universal. Then moved on to a specific part of question 3 - Due to the unique circumstances that have beset Portsmouth FC, SOS Pompey believes the Premier League should accept that there SHOULD NOT be any points deduction if the club enters Administration or is taken over by the Premier League. RS - The PL see no reason why this would be deemed as special circumstance as the only time in which the PL Board would exercise discretion on a points deduction is if a holding company suffers an event of insolvency but the club to which it is linked does not. It is virtually impossible to investigate which exact mismanagement or specific incident would take PFC into administration. It would be as a result of a number of incidents and, as such, there is no reason why a precedent would be set with regard to not deducting 9 points. The PL said that they would obviously look at any event of insolvency but, as things stand, it was highly likely that were PFC to go into administration then a points deduction would be the sanction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block 5 Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 As you say Gemmel, two separate organisations with different rules. But I agree that it is rather galling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Bloody PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 dont worry...they will get relegated this season...the football league will take them to the cleaners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 shame mawhinney is stepping down in march Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block 5 Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 shame mawhinney is stepping down in march Rest assured they will find an equally bumbling moron to replace him. No doubt they are trawling the country's psychiatric hospitals right now in their search for the right candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Rest assured they will find an equally bumbling moron to replace him. No doubt they are trawling the country's psychiatric hospitals right now in their search for the right candidate. :-s Doubt it. You'd have to t**t them over the head with a spade a couple of times first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block 5 Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 :-s Doubt it. You'd have to t**t them over the head with a spade a couple of times first. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC Forever Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 They have been doing that to their next user of his seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Wayne Rooney opened up an old wound once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block 5 Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Wayne Rooney opened up an old wound once. That's bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 That's bad! I try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 I try I disagree, it was excellent. Good form old chap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Fandango Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Am I the only one that reads that as saying that the PL would not regard them as having special circumstances and so would in all likeyhood deduct points in the event of them going into administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huffton Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Am I the only one that reads that as saying that the PL would not regard them as having special circumstances and so would in all likeyhood deduct points in the event of them going into administration. No, I did too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 8 February, 2010 Author Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Am I the only one that reads that as saying that the PL would not regard them as having special circumstances and so would in all likeyhood deduct points in the event of them going into administration. Thats exactly what they are saying, but re read the bit about the only time they would not give a deduction and think of how many points we started the season on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 8 February, 2010 Author Share Posted 8 February, 2010 LOL at the admin man who doesn't understand why it was a Saints thread. Might be polite to post why it was moved and by whom (Not to mention the three posts on it from another admin) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 I'd love to know what these unique circumstances are they refer to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowllyd Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 They published the minutes from the meeting and without pasting it all, there was one bit that caught my eye and really ****ed me off. I know this is the premier league and our points deduction was from the FA, but I would have thought the rules for something like this would be universal. RS - The PL see no reason why this would be deemed as special circumstance as the only time in which the PL Board would exercise discretion on a points deduction is if a holding company suffers an event of insolvency but the club to which it is linked does not. Why does this píss you off so much? The PL's statement only says that they would exercise discretion - in other words, they would not necessarily dock points automatically in the circumstances described. It doesn't say that they definitely wouldn't apply sanctions, just that the decision would not be automatic. That, as I remember it, was exactly how we were treated by the Football League (not the FA). Nobody liked getting a 10-point deduction, but do you honestly think we shouldn't have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 8 February, 2010 Author Share Posted 8 February, 2010 Why does this píss you off so much? The PL's statement only says that they would exercise discretion - in other words, they would not necessarily dock points automatically in the circumstances described. It doesn't say that they definitely wouldn't apply sanctions, just that the decision would not be automatic. That, as I remember it, was exactly how we were treated by the Football League (not the FA). Nobody liked getting a 10-point deduction, but do you honestly think we shouldn't have? That was not the FL stance, they refused to differentiate, between the two entities, where as the premier league are saying they will or at least look at it. I would assume that a good percentage of clubs in the prem have the structure of a holding company and the club itself and therefore wouldn't get punished in the same way as we did, simply as they are in the prem. My expectation was that rules governing this sort of thing would be universal across all leagues, when it obviously isnt the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 I'd love to know what these unique circumstances are they refer to? I believe the Pompey fans were saying it wasn't the clubs fault that the owners had sanctioned unsustainable spending Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 dont worry...they will get relegated this season...the football league will take them to the cleaners christ yes! if they were in the champ or lower they would have been in admin ages ago! Damn PL and their "brand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 christ yes! if they were in the champ or lower they would have been in admin ages ago! Damn PL and their "brand" Why? You do know that the Premier League / Football League have no determination on whether a member club goes into administration, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Nick Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 That was not the FL stance, they refused to differentiate, between the two entities, where as the premier league are saying they will or at least look at it. I would assume that a good percentage of clubs in the prem have the structure of a holding company and the club itself and therefore wouldn't get punished in the same way as we did, simply as they are in the prem. My expectation was that rules governing this sort of thing would be universal across all leagues, when it obviously isnt the case. Southampton FC was the main asset of Southampton Leisure Holdings plc. The situation the Premier League are talking about is something like this: A holding company owns two subsidiaries, a football club and another business. The football club makes a small profit. The other business loses millions. The holding company goes into administration because of the other business's losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stardustonmyfeet Posted 8 February, 2010 Share Posted 8 February, 2010 I suppose this is why West Ham didn't go into administration... on the other hand they've been knee-deep in debt for years haven't they? Wonder what's going on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 I suppose this is why West Ham didn't go into administration... on the other hand they've been knee-deep in debt for years haven't they? Wonder what's going on there. Not that I want to widen the conversation into a general talk about administration, but one can hardly fail to notice that Championship side, Crystal Palace went into Admin owing a hedge fund £4M, with a very good prospect of making the playoffs. In fact, add 10 points to their present total, and they are in the playoff places, I believe. Astonishing decision, called by the hedge fund, IMO. Oh btw, Pimply reckon they might avoid being wound up: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8505321.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 Oh btw, Pimply reckon they might avoid being wound up: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8505321.stm Couple of points regarding this - (a) I thought Jacobs had been booted out...and (b) Solent were reporting this morning that it was thought a deal was not likely as Gaydamaks hold on the land would put off potential investors....and © remember when we were at deaths door and all the weird stories that circulated just before admin about possible investors that came to sod all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 As someone else said - West Ham. We all know we'd have got away with it if SLH had kept the Radio Station :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowllyd Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 That was not the FL stance, they refused to differentiate, between the two entities, where as the premier league are saying they will or at least look at it. I would assume that a good percentage of clubs in the prem have the structure of a holding company and the club itself and therefore wouldn't get punished in the same way as we did, simply as they are in the prem. My expectation was that rules governing this sort of thing would be universal across all leagues, when it obviously isnt the case. The FL exercised discretion, exactly as the PL say they would do in similar circumstances. The FL wanted to establish whether SFC was genuinely separate from SLH - remember the accountants sent in to go over the books of both companies? We only got the 10-point deduction after that process had taken place. So yes, they did distinguish between the two entities - they just found them to be 'inextricably linked'. Now, you could certainly argue that the whole forensic accounting process was only there to cover the FL's back, and that they were determined to dock the points regardless. However, had they found that SFC was running OK all by itself, and wasn't wholly dependent on SLH, they would have found it considerably harder, or even impossible, to impose sanctions - and SFC would have had a strong legal case against any sanctions. All leagues make their own rules, and there's no reason to assume any of these rules would be universal. In this case, though, they're pretty much identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 Sorry to soil the board with this, but last week a group of pimpley fans met up with Richard Scudamore & co from the Premier League. They published the minutes from the meeting and without pasting it all, there was one bit that caught my eye and really ****ed me off. I know this is the premier league and our points deduction was from the FA, but I would have thought the rules for something like this would be universal. Then moved on to a specific part of question 3 - Due to the unique circumstances that have beset Portsmouth FC, SOS Pompey believes the Premier League should accept that there SHOULD NOT be any points deduction if the club enters Administration or is taken over by the Premier League. RS - The PL see no reason why this would be deemed as special circumstance as the only time in which the PL Board would exercise discretion on a points deduction is if a holding company suffers an event of insolvency but the club to which it is linked does not. It is virtually impossible to investigate which exact mismanagement or specific incident would take PFC into administration. It would be as a result of a number of incidents and, as such, there is no reason why a precedent would be set with regard to not deducting 9 points. The PL said that they would obviously look at any event of insolvency but, as things stand, it was highly likely that were PFC to go into administration then a points deduction would be the sanction Um, what they're saying is equally open to the interpretation that they WILL act in the same manner as the FL have. To me it reads that the rules are set in stone, except for a situation like the one Saints were in, in which case they'll use their discretion to apply the usual rules even though technically the club isn't in admin. Evidently reading the other comments I'm not the only one who thinks this. What they're doing is one-upping the FL to say "we'll probably apply the rules in that case", whilst the FL said "our rules apply when we see fit". If you want to moan, ask why it's only 9 points not 10 (the argument would be that they play fewer games in the Prem). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 Am I the only one that reads that as saying that the PL would not regard them as having special circumstances and so would in all likeyhood deduct points in the event of them going into administration. That is how I read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 No administration, no 10 point deduction, no permanent removal of Lowe, no takeover by Swiss billionaire. Yep, I'm right distressed by this non-news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxfordshire_saint Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 I'd rather that they manage to muddle their way through this season, because they're going down with or without a deduction. Then, let's hope they end up going into admin just after the Championship season starts, leaving their threadbare squad with a -10 defecit to overhaul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 I'd rather that they manage to muddle their way through this season, because they're going down with or without a deduction. Then, let's hope they end up going into admin just after the Championship season starts, leaving their threadbare squad with a -10 defecit to overhaul. This is what will happen as they will no longer have the support of the Premier League and the Football league will love to kick them when they're down!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxfordshire_saint Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 This is what will happen as they will no longer have the support of the Premier League and the Football league will love to kick them when they're down!! Indeed, everyone knows the Prem will do everything in their power to stop one of their clubs going into admin as it's awful PR for them. Once relegated, they're on their own! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 Indeed, everyone knows the Prem will do everything in their power to stop one of their clubs going into admin as it's awful PR for them. Once relegated, they're on their own! Apart from anything, the PL is basically run by the member clubs of the PL, who presumably all have some interest in the Premier League not kicking them when they're in trouble... ...and to be fair all that's happened so far is they've redirected funds owing straight to creditor clubs within the Premier League. They can't do anything else (outside of the laughable Fit and Proper Persons test) until there's administration when these rules kick in. Not paying players is an issue for the PFA and between the player and the club, and though it is usually a trigger for admin, nothing to do with the Premier League until they can't put 11 players on the pitch due to not having enough left under contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 I'd rather they didn't go in to admin this season. Let them go down naturally, then start next season with no players and -10. We will pass them on the way up. I do still fear them for this Saturday. I think this match may have come a season too early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 I hear that the talks to save Pimply from being wound up have stalled. They could be gone by this tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 I hear that the talks to save Pimply from being wound up have stalled. They could be gone by this tomorrow. They will still appeal nevertheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 ObviouslyI meant to type "time" between this and tomorrow. Anyway, I hear the talks are back on again. In fact they were never off, but the parties were having a breather. Noticed today that Vince [the supporter who stayed in the queue to get tickets] Reeves was interviewed by Hawksby & Jacobs [yes, I'm still having to listen to Talksport]. When asked if he wanted Pompey to disappear, he gave a very diplomatic answer, which both H&J understood, i.e. stay in existence, so we can have the rivalry and derbies, but drop a couple of divisions, please. Jacobs thought the club's gesture of a lifetime season ticket was wonderful, and Hawksby thought it very good PR. Those two almost make an everyman, between them. Tbh, I find their show ever so slightly bearable. Not that I'd tune in if it was up to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 9 February, 2010 Share Posted 9 February, 2010 RL was assured by the London lawyers that there was no way that the club would be deducted 10 points, due to the way the club was set up. How those skates think theirs should be waived is beyond a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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